#linuxcnc | Logs for 2018-06-26
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[17:27:58] <MrHindsight> $1100 or best https://www.ebay.com
[17:28:31] <MrHindsight> heh "Machine sold as-is. $1,000 or best offer."
[17:29:23] <MrHindsight> why is the table soo rusty?
[17:30:41] <tjb1> wow
[17:30:44] <tjb1> that thing is terrible
[17:30:57] <gloops> could be rusty chips
[17:31:18] <gloops> rub off with some wire wool
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[17:32:44] <tjb1> guess im spoiled that I get to program relatively new machines
[17:33:13] <hazzy-lab> Looks like it has not been used hard, too bad somebody let it rust
[17:34:41] <andypugh> It would probably clean up, machine tools always look far more ruty in photos.
[17:34:52] <andypugh> But is it CNC? It looks like a copy mill.
[17:35:31] <hazzy-lab> looks like a tracer ..
[17:35:39] <andypugh> I think we mean the same thing
[17:35:42] <gloops> theres rusty stuff on the painted surfaces as well, its probably more tarnished than rusty, something theyve milled smeared about with coolant
[17:36:13] <hazzy-lab> andypugh: I was agreeing with you :)
[17:36:22] <tjb1> anyone else enjoy C/A axis programming?
[17:37:27] <andypugh> tjb1: By hand?
[17:37:31] <andypugh> Lke this? http://bodgesoc.blogspot.com
[17:37:34] <tjb1> yeah of course
[17:37:48] <tjb1> cam software is for noobs
[17:38:33] <tjb1> oh yeah lots of macro variables too
[17:38:35] <tjb1> thats the stuff
[17:41:16] <MrHindsight> https://www.ebay.com must be some scam
[17:41:22] <MrHindsight> $3k
[17:41:40] <tjb1> I've got one where I bring the turret down, run the center in the sub into it and then pull machine variables to find the length of the center to turn the nose of it
[17:42:45] <gloops> hand coding is not practical for many things
[17:42:46] <MrHindsight> https://www.ebay.com
[17:42:55] <MrHindsight> same seller
[17:43:36] <MrHindsight> _methods: https://www.ebay.com $1500
[17:43:56] <tjb1> gloops: we do a lot of macro programming at work
[17:44:42] <MrHindsight> tjb1: how many lines of code fit within the term "macro"?
[17:44:54] <tjb1> ?
[17:45:02] <Tom_L> Mazak for 2K? what's wrong with it?
[17:45:07] <Tom_L> doesn't look all that old
[17:45:21] <tjb1> Tom_L: 1 feedback
[17:45:34] <MrHindsight> yeah, something fishy
[17:45:59] <tjb1> MrHindsight: what do you mean how many lines fit in the term?
[17:46:06] <andypugh> I wrote an Excel “macro” at work. 20,000 lines of code :-)
[17:46:38] <MrHindsight> when is it too big to be called a macro?
[17:46:46] <tjb1> I mean fanuc macrob
[17:47:14] <MrHindsight> discussing semantics
[17:47:34] <tjb1> I dont know of CAM that can work with it
[17:48:41] <gregcnc> mazak with the same s/n? https://goo.gl
[17:48:47] <tjb1> andypugh: how do you create each line? concatenate?
[17:49:09] <andypugh> It’s a “macro” written in Visual Basic
[17:49:28] <tjb1> oh
[17:49:36] <andypugh> Which, amongst other things, replaces _all_ the Excel menus,, ribbons and contextual menus with new ones.
[17:50:09] <tjb1> ive dabbled in making an add in so I can update a sheet shop wide without sending it to everyone all the time
[17:50:37] <tjb1> starts to become a pain when all the code isnt running in the workbook anymore
[17:52:13] <MrHindsight> $1600 https://www.ebay.com
[17:52:58] <andypugh> MrHindsight: Auction, might have a reserve
[17:53:27] <tjb1> andypugh: there have been talks about moving python into excel
[17:53:36] <MrHindsight> https://www.ebay.com $2200
[17:54:56] <gregcnc> I knew I saw an AJV-25 today https://chicago.craigslist.org
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[18:11:51] <CaptHindsight> http://www.machinedesign.com
[18:13:27] <lcvette__> sweet everything is up an running in inches now even ATC! whoo hoo that was a big todo list item!
[18:13:59] <lcvette__> is anyone using a shuttleprov2 as a pendant?
[18:14:07] <lcvette__> thats next on my list
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[18:14:46] <CaptHindsight> lcvette__: did you get the servos tuned?
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[18:14:59] <lcvette__> as tuned as they will get
[18:15:23] <CaptHindsight> what mode did you end up using and what was the major challenge?
[18:16:49] <lcvette__> https://www.cnczone.com
[18:17:14] <lcvette__> last post has the graphs from start to finish
[18:17:21] <lcvette__> rough hops
[18:17:28] <lcvette__> position
[18:17:32] <lcvette__> velocity was all funky
[18:17:43] <lcvette__> couldn't get it to do what i wanted
[18:18:14] <lcvette__> and the base following error was off
[18:18:26] <lcvette__> not near the cmd position line
[18:18:34] <lcvette__> i pretty much give up
[18:18:54] <lcvette__> gave it a solid week of tinkering and think its a drive quality issue
[18:19:22] <CaptHindsight> so for the servo drives the feedback would be: would not buy again
[18:19:54] <lcvette__> going to reserve that until i make some parts
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[18:20:12] <lcvette__> I have no experience with other servos to compare them to
[18:20:35] <lcvette__> ive been a stepper user for the last 15 years
[18:21:38] <lcvette__> maybe if they make good parts with nice finishes to tolerance they have a place in the market
[18:21:44] <pcw_mesa> Its within ~1/4 mill when moving at ~12 IPS, thats pretty close, no drive will be perfect
[18:22:19] <lcvette__> they were certainly some of the most affordable and at the time that was a criteria rather important
[18:22:42] <CaptHindsight> +40 hours of your time :)
[18:23:25] <lcvette__> i think this round would have taken similar with most servos
[18:23:34] <lcvette__> starting from scratch for the first time
[18:23:34] <lcvette__> maybe not
[18:23:44] <lcvette__> maybe learning tuning software would have taken that long
[18:23:48] <lcvette__> i don't know?
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[18:24:50] <lcvette__> pcw_mesa: if you are refering to the closed loop graph, the machine is so riddled with vibration in closed loop i doubt i could use it and make decently finished parts
[18:25:04] <pcw_mesa> the drives didnt help by having their feed forward turned off by default (so multi-mm following errors at speed)
[18:25:18] <lcvette__> TRUTH
[18:25:19] <pcw_mesa> lower the P term
[18:25:24] <lcvette__> I tried
[18:25:38] <lcvette__> i tried and tried and tried
[18:25:49] <lcvette__> there was no combination that it liked
[18:26:04] <pcw_mesa> reducing the P term has to reduce the vibration
[18:26:23] <pcw_mesa> (as long as you have no D )
[18:26:38] <lcvette__> yeah and then things would get wonky elsewhere
[18:26:47] <lcvette__> i mean reducing the P
[18:26:52] <lcvette__> \i tried mainly with no D
[18:26:59] <lcvette__> then i tried with D
[18:27:04] <lcvette__> i was pretty systematic about it
[18:27:38] <pcw_mesa> You really should never use D here
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[18:27:57] <pcw_mesa> remove D reduce P by a factor of 2
[18:28:00] <lcvette__> i think it is the fact of having all the gain turned up
[18:28:03] <lcvette__> in the drive
[18:28:27] <pcw_mesa> the drive may be close to oscillation
[18:28:36] <lcvette__> but if i turn it down... the Ferror base is too far for the pid to work
[18:28:42] <lcvette__> correct
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[18:29:06] <lcvette__> just no good combination between drive settings and pid to be able to work together happily
[18:29:42] <lcvette__> need a lower gain setting with a closer ferror curve to start before getting the pid loop involved in closed loop to the controller
[18:30:00] <lcvette__> then i think it would have worked great
[18:30:54] <lcvette__> for now i don't have the capital to drop on new motors and drives
[18:31:30] <lcvette__> so im going to run them with the base ferror curve as close to normal as possible with as little vibration as possible and see how it does
[18:32:25] <lcvette__> my part tolerances aren't nasa critical
[18:32:40] <lcvette__> and while i would like to be able to get there
[18:32:45] <CaptHindsight> pcw_mesa: is DataPainter module hosted for the public somewhere yet?
[18:33:01] <lcvette__> it may have to wait a few months while i recover
[18:33:37] <pcw_mesa> If you reduce LinuxCNCs P term by a factor of 2 it should reduce the vibration significantly
[18:34:03] <lcvette__> i went down as low as 40 on P
[18:34:11] <lcvette__> with I and D at 0
[18:34:33] <lcvette__> all that did was make the ferror get out of hand
[18:34:33] <pcw_mesa> and you still had vibration?
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[18:34:48] <lcvette__> yeah still had vibration
[18:35:22] <pcw_mesa> maybe the encoder feedback from the drive is noisy
[18:36:00] <pcw_mesa> you could use a combination of P and I
[18:36:13] <lcvette__> tried that too
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[18:36:26] <lcvette__> that seemed to make the motor vibrate even at rest
[18:36:30] <pcw_mesa> (i usually has to be quite large to notice the effects)
[18:36:57] <pcw_mesa> vibration at rest is often a separate issue
[18:37:24] <pfred1> restless motor syndrome
[18:38:13] <lcvette__> when i turned the I up high enough thats when it would start to continue vibrating after stopping
[18:38:40] <pcw_mesa> how high?
[18:39:11] <lcvette__> i tried as high as .3ish started at .01
[18:39:55] <pcw_mesa> I would expect an I of 100 or so before you see a real difference
[18:40:17] <CaptHindsight> NVM, found the VHDL file
[18:40:25] <lcvette__> i can try it again
[18:40:38] <lcvette__> but i just got summoned to the dinner table
[18:40:53] <pfred1> food!
[18:40:57] <lcvette__> ill give it a try tomorrow
[18:41:36] <Lcvette> wife gets mad if I don't eat while she does
[18:41:41] <pcw_mesa> CaptHindsight: its in any FPGA card zip file (as is the register map)
[18:42:05] <CaptHindsight> looking at both :)
[18:42:10] <pfred1> happy wife is happy life
[18:42:24] <pcw_mesa> its at the end of the regmap file
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[18:43:22] <CaptHindsight> pfred1: nothing last forever :p
[18:44:15] * phiplii crosses his fingers and waits for the cockerel to appear...
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[19:07:36] <CaptHindsight> .beer
[19:07:41] <CaptHindsight> nope
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[19:11:36] <phiplii> ./weather
[19:11:41] <hazzy-lab> logs
[19:11:48] <phiplii> .weather
[19:11:49] <theCockerel> I don't know where you live. Give me a location, like .weather London, or tell me where you live by saying .setlocation London, for example.
[19:11:53] <phiplii> sigh
[19:11:58] <phiplii> .weather derby uk
[19:11:59] <theCockerel> Yahoo! Weather - Derby, England, GB: Clear, 16°C (60°F), Humidity: 59%, Gentle breeze 4.9m/s (←)
[19:12:20] * phiplii heads to bed
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[19:14:38] <pfred1> the weather was nice here today
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[19:20:50] <roycroft> oh geeze
[19:20:54] <roycroft> another bot that does weather reports
[19:21:21] <pfred1> whether you like it, or not
[19:21:38] <roycroft> i don't like that people impose spammy bots on channels
[19:21:41] <roycroft> i can /ignore the bot
[19:22:16] <pfred1> .weather Georgetown DE
[19:22:17] <theCockerel> Yahoo! Weather - Georgetown, DE, US: Partly Cloudy, 25°C (77°F), Humidity: 45%, Moderate breeze 6.3m/s (↖)
[19:22:20] <roycroft> but it's hard to ignore the comands that people feed it on public channel without /ingoring the people, which i don't want to do
[19:23:00] * pfred1 flexs the nice weather he's having
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[19:43:10] <hazzy-lab> Is there another weather bot? lol
[19:44:05] <hazzy-lab> or is pfred1 the other bot? xD
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[22:27:34] <Roguish> .weather walnut creek
[22:27:35] <theCockerel> Yahoo! Weather - Walnut Creek, CA, US: Sunny, 25°C (77°F), Humidity: 36%, Fresh breeze 8.0m/s (↗)
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[22:49:44] <tjb1> .weather 14903
[22:49:45] <theCockerel> Yahoo! Weather - Big Flats, NY, US: Cloudy, 16°C (60°F), Humidity: 74%, Gentle breeze 4.9m/s (↑)
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[23:04:16] <pcw_home> .weather mars
[23:04:17] <theCockerel> Yahoo! Weather - Mars, NW, DE: Partly Cloudy, 10°C (50°F), Humidity: 96%, Light breeze 3.1m/s (←)
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