#linuxcnc | Logs for 2018-07-01
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[01:10:08] <the_document> what are standard and minimal cnc tolerances in mm?
[01:11:21] <the_document> i dont know how drastic a jump in cost will be from +/-0.05mm & +/-0.1mm
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[02:47:28] <fragalot> hi
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[02:52:38] <Deejay> moin
[02:56:50] <miss0r|office> mornin'
[03:00:20] <miss0r|office> I have a few hours home alone, so I decided to shift through some old vinyl albums. At the moment I am listening to 'the wall' album :]
[03:01:51] <miss0r|office> After this, garden duty calls :-/
[03:03:48] <Deejay> eh, vinyl
[03:03:55] <Deejay> you must be old! ;)
[03:04:00] <miss0r|office> hell no!
[03:04:01] <miss0r|office> :)
[03:04:25] <fragalot> wait, if you have a few hours, let me run out to the shed & measure those gibs :D
[03:04:39] <miss0r|office> sure :)
[03:05:02] <fragalot> Deejay: Can't beat original vinyls
[03:05:35] * fragalot brb
[03:06:08] <miss0r|office> I mean; CDs are 'alright' but you just don't get the same satifcation from browsing through the large covers & listening the imperfections in the sound caused by forign particles landing on the surface
[03:08:50] <RyanS> vinyl would make a good way cover :p
[03:10:08] <miss0r|office> sure. Just not good for the 'heavier' particles
[03:10:45] <fragalot> or hot ones
[03:10:51] <miss0r|office> that too :)
[03:11:52] <miss0r|office> fragalot: How big are they, roughly?
[03:12:19] <miss0r|office> I would love to do'em if I had the material in stock ;)
[03:19:33] <RyanS> https://www.allaboutcircuits.com do I just factor in microstepping here? at least for rpm..
[03:21:51] <miss0r|office> fragalot: If you have some dimensions, send it to the miss0r (the shop one:P) I will look at that from time to time during the day. I will go do some gardening. see you around
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[04:29:30] <gloops> someone wanting to install on ubuntu
[04:29:52] <gloops> must be slightly annoying being a developer, whatever you build they want something different lol
[04:30:51] <gloops> it is so easy to download the iso, run it, run stepconfig - youre away
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[04:48:49] <fragalot> miss0r: miss0r|office sent you an email. :-)
[04:51:22] <fragalot> gloops: most likely they want to run it from the OS they're used to, or are currently using for other tasks
[04:53:25] <gloops> hes running mach3 on windows and wants linuxcnc on the same hard drive, would be easier to get another drive i think
[04:54:19] <fragalot> nah easy enough to dual boot
[04:55:48] <gloops> you dont want to be using the computer for anything else anyway
[04:56:28] <XXCoder> best way to dual boot: install linux. boot into it, don't bother to install windows.
[04:59:22] <gloops> to be fair linuxcnc would probably be more popular if a mint version was available
[05:00:02] <Wolf__> huh, I’m running mint flavored lcnc
[05:00:08] <gloops> mint was not a difficult transistion for me from windows, you can get by easily enough
[05:00:23] <gloops> debian isnt so friendly
[05:00:43] <gloops> Wolf did you download that as a package or set iy up yourself?
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[05:00:49] <Wolf__> there is a guide on how to do a mint linux cnc install
[05:01:00] <Wolf__> and I dont know crap about linux
[05:01:23] <gloops> i tried it once and it failed, ending up starting again
[05:01:26] <Wolf__> I do know now to use one of my real computers vs the intel atom to compile tho
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[05:02:32] <Wolf__> for me it was pretty much cut and paste some stuff in to a batch file and run it
[05:03:05] <gloops> one i did was command line, got the kernels mixed up and ballsed everything up
[05:03:31] <Wolf__> yeah, much easier to batch it imo
[05:04:09] <Wolf__> its fuzzy tho its been over a year when I did it
[05:04:15] <Wolf__> or two
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[05:06:25] <Wolf__> note I used info from 3 different forum threads to make it work =)
[05:06:59] <Wolf__> https://forum.linuxcnc.org is one of them
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[05:09:22] <Wolf__> I was kinda backed in a corner to make it work also, I picked a mobo that the live lcnc didn’t support most of the stuff on
[05:14:44] <XXCoder> my main oc here had linuxcnc installed but it was wiped in upgrade :(
[05:14:59] <XXCoder> gonna redo it evenually. i love having linuxcnc to test run stuff. no rt needed
[05:15:07] <RyanS> are you going to use profile linear rails or v-rollers wolf? plasma
[05:22:47] <Wolf__> not sure yet
[05:23:06] <Wolf__> probably ball truck type rails
[05:23:35] <Wolf__> least for the carriage part
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[05:28:06] <Wolf__> yeah profile rails, I have 4 thk rails that I may butt joint to make the carriage axis, the arm will probably be some semi janky v-grove arrangement
[05:29:46] <gloops> for last router i made some skate bearings by using a round tube for the rail and a section of large tube over it like a sleeve
[05:30:13] <gloops> on each end of the sleeve mounted 4 bearings - they worked fine
[05:30:23] <gloops> like a roller coaster rails
[05:31:12] <gloops> with plasma no force apart from the jerking of the gantry, something like that would be ok
[05:31:38] <RyanS> hmm, i'm concerned about mounting profile rails on steel tube or t-slot that is far from a precision surface
[05:32:56] <Wolf__> well… its a plasma cut, what kinda tolerance are you expecting
[05:33:16] <gloops> https://www.coaster101.com
[05:34:06] <gloops> you dont need close tolerances, most diy plasmas run straight on the box section frame with flat skate bearings
[05:35:11] <RyanS> not a lot, which is why I find it strange that some people insist on dropping $2000 on profile rails
[05:35:34] <Wolf__> https://chdwelding.en.made-in-china.com is kinda what I have in mind for my build, but more 80/20 and probably uglier
[05:35:39] <gloops> http://www.thebackshed.com
[05:37:07] <gloops> the only snag i can see with a long arm like that is it shaking under accel/deccel
[05:37:59] <gloops> another take on tube http://mambohead.com
[05:38:23] <Wolf__> probably part of the reason those are built wide
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[05:38:34] <IchGucksLive> hi all
[05:38:42] <IchGucksLive> late today
[05:38:53] <RyanS> hi
[05:38:54] <IchGucksLive> we are short of personal so im in full service
[05:39:55] <IchGucksLive> RyanS, for your plasma no hiwion is needed
[05:40:01] <IchGucksLive> hgh
[05:40:06] <IchGucksLive> only SBR
[05:40:22] <gloops> you can go very fast with an arm ... https://www.youtube.com
[05:40:31] <RyanS> yeah I think Hiwin is overkill
[05:40:51] <RyanS> and hard to mount
[05:40:53] <gloops> you would need hiwin for Wolfs design
[05:41:03] <Wolf__> thk should be very overkill lol
[05:41:12] <gloops> at 1200mm that arm has to be mounted VERY well
[05:41:13] <IchGucksLive> RyanS, did you see my plasmas
[05:41:29] <RyanS> yep
[05:41:30] <gloops> .1mm play in the bearings = 10mm slack at the other end
[05:41:55] <Wolf__> but it only going to be 5’ of rails and maybe 4’ of arm, but I could get away with 2’ arm
[05:42:35] <IchGucksLive> i got the table build at 1200euros
[05:42:43] <IchGucksLive> 2500x1500
[05:42:57] <IchGucksLive> swiming pool clue
[05:43:04] <RyanS> gloops but for a gantry type , not necessary?
[05:43:20] <Wolf__> gantry is dead simple
[05:43:32] <IchGucksLive> RyanS, i got a file if you want the design
[05:43:45] <Wolf__> just get the frame square =)
[05:43:47] <gloops> RyanS no the gantry has both ends in bearings
[05:43:49] <IchGucksLive> BUT in modern days it is more a outtake
[05:44:35] <gloops> seriously, if you are going fast, dont underestimate how the velocity will shake things about, rapid changing direction
[05:44:48] <Wolf__> ^
[05:45:10] <IchGucksLive> gloops, acceleration is low on plasma
[05:45:37] <IchGucksLive> you cand go hard to the edge as plasma will drop
[05:46:00] <IchGucksLive> 120acc is max on mine
[05:46:04] <Wolf__> only time its going to be flying is rapid to next cut area
[05:46:32] <IchGucksLive> if i go higher even on G64 P0,2 it will kill the flame on 90deg
[05:46:45] <RyanS> my understanding was that for sharp corner you need acceleration
[05:47:37] <IchGucksLive> k might be different on no water table but on mine direction changing is not so easy
[05:47:37] <Wolf__> guess that might be dependent on material thickness
[05:48:03] <IchGucksLive> if you are at 4800mm/min the flame is bending
[05:48:24] <IchGucksLive> 0,5mm if not more
[05:48:40] <gloops> youll have to get one of those fibre lasers
[05:48:48] <gloops> 50m/min
[05:49:00] <IchGucksLive> gloops, but not at 350Euros
[05:49:06] <gloops> lol
[05:49:24] <IchGucksLive> i use pimpd s-cutter
[05:49:39] <RyanS> similar to handheld where the arc blows back if you go to fast?
[05:50:00] <IchGucksLive> RyanS, my expirience yes
[05:50:44] <IchGucksLive> 120 ACC is 5mm at 4800 so it is the best as i say to go
[05:51:04] <IchGucksLive> 5mm corner slow down and exelerate
[05:51:29] <Wolf__> … I’m never going fast cutting w/ my plasma but thin for me is 3/16”-5mm
[05:51:58] <IchGucksLive> on contour like letters you are not able to get to 3000
[05:52:01] <gloops> Leeds welding company cuts the plates for a ship in a week
[05:52:12] <gloops> 300 profile burners on the dole
[05:52:42] <IchGucksLive> gloops, they got the peoöle that know there mashine and steel
[05:52:47] <RyanS> why 30:1? I was calculating 10m/min without reduction and 22mm pinion , 0.33 m/min 30;1
[05:53:55] <XXCoder> stainless aluminium
[05:54:03] <IchGucksLive> Ry i use T10 rack at Z12 pinion THIS is 10*12 120mm Per Rotation
[05:54:35] <IchGucksLive> RyanS, 120mm = 12000 steps = 400*30
[05:54:53] <IchGucksLive> so full speed at full force with max precision
[05:55:37] <RyanS> so this calculator doesn't work for this application? http://www.endmemo.com
[05:56:01] <IchGucksLive> 10m/min = 166mm/sec = 16600 steps /sec
[05:56:29] <IchGucksLive> so you can do this with 50k latency on a standard 5 USD BOB
[05:56:48] <IchGucksLive> all Drivers in Brig form can do this
[05:57:09] <RyanS> what's T10? I have only heard of mod 1.0, mod 2.0 etc
[05:57:29] <IchGucksLive> RyanS, there are metric Racks
[05:58:07] <RyanS> so is gear module isn't it?
[05:58:40] <RyanS> https://www.ebay.com.au
[05:58:41] <IchGucksLive> http://maedler.de
[05:58:45] <IchGucksLive> let me see
[05:59:25] <IchGucksLive> T10 is M3,18
[05:59:36] <IchGucksLive> T5 is module 1,59
[05:59:49] <RyanS> 20T * 1.0 is 20mm pcd I think
[05:59:55] <IchGucksLive> the calculation is not accurate it is a nearing
[06:00:25] <IchGucksLive> RyanS, but as you see the numbers fit perfect
[06:00:48] <IchGucksLive> RyanS, it is also a standard so parts are just buy and screw them up
[06:01:01] <RyanS> doesn't mod 2.0 have a lot of backlash?
[06:01:11] <IchGucksLive> RyanS, Mädler got a store in australia as i see
[06:02:05] <IchGucksLive> RyanS, the metrics are grinded to fit even if you go for 5times 500mm and mount them in line
[06:02:12] <IchGucksLive> you will se no backlash
[06:02:50] <RyanS> my lathe has like equivalent to mod 3.0 on the carriage
[06:02:57] <IchGucksLive> the gearbox is with spring pulled onto the rail
[06:03:39] <RyanS> lots of backlash on lathe
[06:03:46] <IchGucksLive> RyanS, as you see prices are higher but precision is it almostr
[06:04:08] <IchGucksLive> all i can say is no backlash in a 8hr shift at all
[06:04:51] <IchGucksLive> they are real tight up no fix mount
[06:05:10] <RyanS> ok, some say Springs wear the rack more?
[06:06:08] <IchGucksLive> packet of springs like tellerfeder din 2093
[06:06:33] <RyanS> so you can get dual pinions for precision ( although too expensive )
[06:06:37] <IchGucksLive> tighten to 2t force so nothing will rig
[06:06:42] <IchGucksLive> or rack
[06:07:12] <IchGucksLive> im pulling near 500KG of Gantry
[06:07:53] <RyanS> do you recommend 4Nm for x, y and z?
[06:07:58] <IchGucksLive> im off dish is ready for Meal
[06:08:07] <IchGucksLive> RyanS, no
[06:08:33] <IchGucksLive> RyanS, but the 2Nm do pull the same Amps so go for 4Nm 3Amp
[06:08:45] <IchGucksLive> and the 500W psiu and you are save
[06:08:53] <RyanS> ah
[06:08:53] <IchGucksLive> OFF Thanks
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[06:50:43] <jthornton> morning
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[07:34:32] <SpeedEvil> https://www.bunniestudios.com
[07:34:41] <SpeedEvil> - On the harms to small manufacturers of the new tarrifs.
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[07:54:01] <gloops> be interesting to see how it works out
[07:54:47] <gloops> like all these economic policies, it would need time to really evaluate the effects, ive no doubt trumps successor will immediately reverse these tariffs
[07:55:18] <RyanS> party like it's 1929
[08:07:21] <gloops> well there is all this fuss over trump, but if you ignore the sensationalism he makes a fair point
[08:07:43] <gloops> like the EU tariffs american products already - nobody has said anything about them using tariffs
[08:08:05] <gloops> china is another
[08:08:44] <gloops> copyright laws arent even pursued against china
[08:44:18] <tiwake> the issue is that if I make a product and sell it to someone outside USA, that country adds on another 30% to the price, but if that someone sells the same thing to me in USA I get 30% discount
[08:44:36] <tiwake> how is that fair?
[08:47:34] <jthornton> tariffs are never fair
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[08:53:24] <tiwake> the only way it can work properly is if everyone drops it though
[08:54:03] <Loetmichel> tariffs are meant to make the trade of whole countrys "fair" (as in leveled in/out money), not individual trades
[08:55:23] <Loetmichel> ans sometimes they are a punishment for outside "leaders" actions... that usually doesent work though because you hurt the populace of the land you tariff, not its leaders
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[09:28:31] <miss0r> ahh. playhouse floor is done. Now I've earned 10 minuts break
[09:29:11] <miss0r> I bet not too many playhouse floors in the neighborhood is made with 32mm planks :D
[09:29:20] <miss0r> It was the best deal I could find on a short notice
[09:47:48] <fragalot> Hey
[09:48:23] <fragalot> miss0r: you're right, most are 38mm
[10:00:04] <Deejay> playhouse for eternity
[10:21:11] <tjb1> Anyone have the router mount from CNCRP or Openbuilds?
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[10:37:36] <Tecan> https://github.com << low footprint version of guvcview for monitoring cnc
[10:37:55] <Tecan> i have sdl_delay going to limit it for 10fps
[10:38:46] <Tecan> chose it because it can use upsidedown webcams easily
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[10:48:47] <Tecan> it would be cool to be able to find something that modify's existing gcode g0 movements to play music
[10:49:21] <fragalot> for what purpose?
[10:49:25] <Tecan> music
[10:49:39] <fragalot> making the steppers do the music, or play something through the speakers to know it's done?
[10:49:49] <Tecan> the steppers
[10:50:09] <fragalot> I guess :-) kinda defeats the point of g0 though :P
[10:50:53] <rmu> should be possible with G1 and manipulation of feedrate
[10:51:37] <rmu> less so if you use silent step or similar drivers
[10:51:51] <fragalot> rmu: it definitely is, but I think Tecan just wants to pour his existing gcode through something where the G0's are converted
[10:52:05] <fragalot> so it plays very intermittent music :P
[10:52:07] <Tecan> there are more g1's looking at it now
[10:52:27] <fragalot> you do not want to mess with the G1 moves if you care about surface finish & tool life
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[10:53:06] <Tecan> might be good for 3d printers still
[10:53:32] <fragalot> not really, changes the properties
[10:53:44] <fragalot> changes layer adhesion & surface fininsh
[10:54:22] <Tecan> if it stays within 60 mm/s it would be fine
[10:54:36] <Tecan> for pla and abs
[10:54:38] <fragalot> not if it's busy doing an overhang or bridge move
[10:55:14] <rmu> i see no problem in replacing G0 with G1
[10:55:50] <fragalot> you can do whatever you want with the G0's; Tecan was talking about replacing the G1's
[10:55:52] <rmu> of course you will only have "music" while doing position moves
[10:56:27] <rmu> whatever. playing "stepper-music" while the spindle is running doesn't make much sense anyway
[11:19:58] <Lcvette> electronics circuit builder gurus in here right now?
[11:20:22] <fragalot> Lcvette: 'sup
[11:21:17] <Lcvette> i was working on a diy project from a couple months back and thought i would revive it
[11:21:25] <Lcvette> wireless probe
[11:22:03] <Lcvette> http://imgur.com
[11:22:22] <Lcvette> http://imgur.com
[11:22:48] <Lcvette> i built this circuit from research on IR circuits
[11:23:02] <Lcvette> not sure if it is 100% tight
[11:23:06] <Lcvette> right
[11:24:32] <Lcvette> this is the board for inside the probe, the transmitter, designed to work with a 3.7v lipo battery pack i found that is a good size to fit inside the probe body and make it rechargable
[11:26:24] <fragalot> right.. wireless isn't really my thing :P
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[11:29:12] <Lcvette> works is everyone's thing
[11:29:15] <jesseg> Lcvette, what kind of probe is it?
[11:30:02] <Lcvette> this is just a transmitter
[11:30:16] <jesseg> oh, it flashes those IR leds at ultrasonic frequencies whenever the probe switch gets closed
[11:30:23] <Lcvette> it's for a touch probe, but could be used in atool setter
[11:30:36] <Lcvette> correct
[11:31:00] <Lcvette> the timer circuit creates the frequency
[11:31:21] <Lcvette> there's a battery charging circuit
[11:31:40] <Lcvette> so probe can be charged with a simple microusb
[11:31:45] <Lcvette> like a phone
[11:32:04] <Lcvette> and has a charged and discharged led
[11:32:10] <Lcvette> pretty simple
[11:33:02] <Lcvette> have not designed the probe yet, wanted to design this first so i knew my physical constraints for the probe body
[11:34:16] <jesseg> it's generally a good idea to have an under-discharge prevention circuit on lithium ion type cells
[11:34:28] <Lcvette> i have not yet done the receiver circuit yet
[11:34:42] <jesseg> so it doesn't drain the cell completely flat empty if you forget it on
[11:35:24] <jesseg> oh maybe yours has one built in
[11:35:41] <jesseg> since I see you haven't a fuse neither, maybe both of those are in the battery module
[11:35:55] <rmu> hmm
[11:36:02] <Lcvette> maybe
[11:36:09] <fragalot> no
[11:36:18] <Lcvette> i dunno
[11:36:26] <fragalot> there is no under-voltage lockout with the way it's wired now
[11:36:31] <rmu> NE555 can drive what current? 200mA?
[11:36:39] <Lcvette> i just found that online
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[11:37:08] <jesseg> fragalot, but a lot of batteries like from cell phones and stuff have a built in BMS chip that disconnects when temperature or voltage get out of bounds at either extreme
[11:37:32] <fragalot> jesseg: True.
[11:38:08] <jesseg> Lcvette, rmu brings up a good point - the 555's often do not drive much current. They usually sink more than they drive, but even that's usually not a great amount.
[11:39:08] <jesseg> and you could possibly save power by having the probe input actually cut power to the 555, just use a 0.1uF bypass cap for the timer instead, and have the timer drive a logic mosfet to actually gate power to the diodes
[11:39:12] <jesseg> the LEDs that is
[11:39:59] <fragalot> you're only driving the LEDs at a max. of 10mA too
[11:40:03] <fragalot> which is quite low
[11:40:04] <rmu> Lcvette: i would use inverse logic, i.e. send IR as long as the probe doesn't have contact... or else probe is gone if you touch off something and somehow light is blocked
[11:40:10] <fragalot> assuming 3.7V battery
[11:40:18] <fragalot> and assuming the NE555P is rail to rail, which it isn't
[11:40:41] <jesseg> lol oh I guess the 555 can drive them at 10mA :P
[11:40:47] <jesseg> but yeah that's awfully dim
[11:41:00] <Lcvette> I'm absorbing
[11:41:23] <Lcvette> i think you make a good point
[11:41:37] <jesseg> and I agree with fragalot, itd be much much safer if *loss* of IR signal was equated to contact.
[11:42:02] <jesseg> It'd be better to have a battery die and false contact signal then have it smashing up stuff and not knowing it :P
[11:42:06] <fragalot> Lcvette: basically, each LED will drop around 1.6V
[11:42:21] <fragalot> so 2 in series give you around 3.2V
[11:42:43] <Lcvette> so only two leds
[11:42:56] <Tom_L> check the led specs, they vary
[11:43:05] <jesseg> fragalot, I've actually found a lot of IR leds actually drop around 1.1v when I go to measure them.
[11:43:22] <fragalot> jesseg: i'm going by datasheet which says typical 1.45 max 1.65
[11:43:29] <Lcvette> i checked this before is been a few months
[11:43:47] <jesseg> fragalot, ok fair enough :D
[11:44:12] <fragalot> Lcvette: also, the NE555P outputs 3.3V when fed with 5V
[11:44:32] <Lcvette> so i need a bigger battery
[11:44:40] <fragalot> also - you need a different 555 for 3.7V operation
[11:44:41] <fragalot> :P
[11:44:57] <Lcvette> see, this is why i asked for help
[11:45:04] <Lcvette> :)
[11:45:23] <Tom_L> alot of remotes will overdrive the leds and use a shorter pulse
[11:45:34] <Tom_L> gains distance
[11:45:46] <fragalot> sure, the LEDs in this schematic are well suited to being over-driven
[11:45:47] <jesseg> yeah this LED can be overdriven to 1A for short pulses
[11:45:59] <jesseg> obviously for very short pulses
[11:46:07] <fragalot> jesseg: and 100mA continuous
[11:46:30] <jesseg> which is probably bright enough anyway :P
[11:46:45] <fragalot> which is impressive, to be honest.. putting out 165mW into a package that small :P
[11:47:23] <Lcvette> you guys want onto the project page on easyeda?
[11:47:41] <Tom_L> i use eagle
[11:47:50] <Tom_L> well, i used eagle
[11:47:55] <Tom_L> haven't done any in ages
[11:48:36] <Tom_L> some of those places provide a cad and lock you into their house that way
[11:48:37] <rmu> kicad ;)
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[11:49:33] <Lcvette> i used easyeda because it was easy
[11:49:37] <Lcvette> lol
[11:50:00] <jesseg> Lcvette, do you prefer SOT23 or TO92 for a mosfet?
[11:50:46] <fragalot> Lcvette: you could use the TS555, which should run fine off of a battery
[11:50:47] <Tom_L> (surface mount vs legged creatures)
[11:50:52] <Lcvette> i should say I'm so new to this that what you asked is above my head
[11:51:04] <Tom_L> (surface mount vs legged creatures)
[11:51:17] <fragalot> Lcvette: let's ask another way
[11:51:20] <Tom_L> those are package styles
[11:51:26] <fragalot> how good are your eyes, and how well can you wield a soldering iron :D
[11:51:40] <Lcvette> o literally just had a desire to make a wireless probe and set out to learn how to do it
[11:52:21] <Lcvette> i planned on having the board made probably with a group of friends diyers hobby machiners
[11:52:39] <Lcvette> i sick at soldering
[11:52:45] <Lcvette> suck
[11:52:52] <Tom_L> spelling too :D
[11:53:32] <Tom_L> soldering is easy with the right tools
[11:53:40] <Lcvette> tablet and auto correct kills me
[11:53:46] <Tom_L> it _can_ be difficult otherwise
[11:53:49] <fragalot> Lcvette: right, so replace the NE555P with a TS555 for starters to let it run on 3.7V
[11:54:00] <Lcvette> ok
[11:54:10] <fragalot> for the output, you'll need to add a mosfet rather than go directly from the output
[11:55:03] <Lcvette> are any of your guys interested in a wireless probe and or too setter?
[11:55:15] <rmu> why not use a ESP32 end BLE
[11:55:23] <rmu> and
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[11:56:02] <Lcvette> I'm not selling nor want to, along as a group build make project, probably cheaper
[11:56:12] <rmu> i don't know how "real" wireless probes to the wireless thing, but in my environment, optical receiver wouldn't work very long
[11:56:23] <rmu> s/to the/do the/
[11:56:47] <Lcvette> pretty sure they are IR from my research
[11:57:02] <jesseg> Lcvette, here's a mosfet for you - can be driven by the 555 and can switch a few amps with minimal voltage loss
[11:57:03] <Lcvette> some have arf backup
[11:58:00] <Tom_L> i think renishaw mount their receivers well out of the coolant path
[11:58:15] <Lcvette> jesseg: don't see anything
[11:58:30] <jesseg> Lcvette, that's because I forgot to paste the link :P https://www.digikey.com
[11:58:32] <Lcvette> yeah usually a good bit of of the way
[11:59:07] <Lcvette> lol
[11:59:41] <jesseg> Lcvette, one more thing on your design, especially if you start switching the LEDs at higher currents, is your ground plane is all scrambled, you could end up with strange oscillations and a small radio tarnsmitter :P
[12:00:04] <Lcvette> ok
[12:00:37] <Lcvette> how should i correct?
[12:00:41] <rmu> renishaw has IR, radio and wired options
[12:01:43] <jesseg> Lcvette, In answer to your other question, I really don't see myself using IR wireless in shop. I might consider using these along with micro controllers: https://www.ebay.com
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[12:03:29] <jesseg> Lcvette, hrm how to correct... Well, you should always have a ground plane. And you should group things in such a way the traces between them are as short as is practical. And keep bypass caps right close to integrated circuits. Oh, and use a ceramic bypass cap between power and ground pins on the integrated circuits per their datasheet. A 100uF electrolytic capacitor has too much inductance.
[12:04:16] <fragalot> Lcvette: and take into account minimum trace width and clearance around it for whatever manufacturing process you're going to use
[12:04:20] <Lcvette> ok
[12:04:41] <jesseg> And high current high frequency paths should not parallel traces which carry sensitive signals
[12:04:59] <Lcvette> ok
[12:05:16] <Lcvette> gonna be tough on such a small board
[12:05:45] <rmu> also it wouldn't hurt to use a small microcontroller instead of the ne555 if at all possible
[12:05:48] <Tom_L> is it 1 or 2 layers?
[12:06:01] <Lcvette> 2
[12:06:27] <Tom_L> tiny 10 or such in a sot23-6 would do fine there
[12:06:50] <jesseg> Lcvette, how are you going to be receiving the IR signal?
[12:06:51] <fragalot> or.. you could go the wired route :P
[12:06:53] <Tom_L> fewer external components
[12:07:34] <Lcvette> tony 10?
[12:07:42] <Tom_L> atmel attiny10
[12:07:43] <Lcvette> tiny*
[12:07:59] <Tom_L> or microchip, whoever owns them today
[12:08:32] <jesseg> I'm a Microchip PIC junkie from a good ways back :P
[12:08:45] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81
[12:08:50] <Lcvette> i know even less about micro cops
[12:08:52] <Tom_L> all you need
[12:09:19] <Lcvette> that's it?
[12:09:32] <Lcvette> that's smaller
[12:09:45] <Tom_L> well, that and a programmer, developement environment etc :D
[12:10:37] <Lcvette> oh
[12:10:43] <Lcvette> yeah....
[12:10:51] <Lcvette> well...
[12:11:02] <jesseg> Lcvette, anyway, detecting and decoding IR signals in a lit shop - especially if there is florescent lighting - can be a real challenge. Keeping that 555 tuned to the right frequency is going to be a pain possibly. Highly recommend something more accurate, perhaps even crystal controlled.
[12:11:09] <fragalot> jesseg: STM32 or bust :P
[12:11:27] <fragalot> moar powah needing less juice for a lower price. what's not to like
[12:11:38] <Lcvette> jesseg: i had not yet done the receiver
[12:11:40] <fragalot> and the debugging options are fantastic.
[12:11:50] <Tom_L> fragalot all the setup of the registers etc
[12:12:05] <Tom_L> for basically a blinking led
[12:12:17] <fragalot> you could make it do more than just blink the LED
[12:12:27] <jesseg> Lcvette, ideally you'd use radio wireless that would send a constant signal so the receiver knew it was communicating, then that signal would change codes on contact. Could also send low battery alert, etc
[12:12:40] <fragalot> transfer data, like battery state, keep-alive signals, self-checks,...
[12:12:42] <jesseg> fragalot, yeah I've been thinking I should experiment with STM32
[12:13:11] <fragalot> jesseg: do it. you can get the ST-link programmers quite cheap & segger providezs a firmware upgrade for them to give you a ton more options
[12:13:15] <Lcvette> i envy you guys
[12:13:23] <Lcvette> how old are you?
[12:13:35] <Tom_L> 12
[12:13:47] <fragalot> 7
[12:14:25] <jesseg> hey guys that doesn't leave me much room if I'm to continue the trend
[12:14:31] <Lcvette> just mean i find the younger generation has a better grasp on electronics
[12:14:44] <fragalot> hehe
[12:14:49] <Lcvette> unless it was your profession
[12:14:55] <Lcvette> I'm 43
[12:14:59] <fragalot> how about both?
[12:15:05] <jesseg> I'm 40, but it was my profession
[12:15:14] <Tom_L> i'm neither
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[12:15:45] <Lcvette> I'm trying to learn
[12:16:04] <Tom_L> i've kinda gotten out of electronics lately
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[12:16:12] <IchGucksLive> hi all
[12:16:21] <Lcvette> and wish i had the benefit of a younger more spongelike grain
[12:16:37] <Lcvette> brain*
[12:16:49] <jesseg> yeah I would like more spongelike grain myself :P
[12:16:57] <Tom_L> i did it as a hobby
[12:17:13] <fragalot> I was really into electronics ~10 years ago, then it took a nosedive & I picked it up again end of last year jumping into the deep end by becoming an embeded systems engineer, rather than machine building engineer
[12:17:15] <jesseg> sorry couldn't resist. I know how awful smart device spell correct is
[12:17:15] <Tom_L> like cnc
[12:17:31] <Tom_L> but try to get them to fund themselves
[12:17:47] <jesseg> howdy IchGucksLive !
[12:18:00] <IchGucksLive> ;-)
[12:18:08] <Lcvette> i recently purchased an arduino kit and i have yet to open it...lol
[12:18:33] <Tom_L> i may have 1 arduino
[12:18:35] <IchGucksLive> arduino in dozents here around
[12:18:41] <Tom_L> i've never used them
[12:18:52] <fragalot> I think i've got 7
[12:18:54] <IchGucksLive> we are in full harvest
[12:18:57] <Tom_L> always built and programmed the chips they way they should be
[12:18:58] <Lcvette> i figured i would start to learn by trying some of the follow along bills
[12:19:04] <Lcvette> builds
[12:19:07] <Tom_L> not from somebody else's libraries
[12:19:07] <fragalot> all in various states of unfinishedness :P
[12:19:17] <IchGucksLive> and i got 2 arduino and on android on etch farmer tractor and harvester
[12:19:43] <fragalot> Tom_L: recently, now that STM32's are so easy to come by, i've started building my own HAL's and other API's for everything we use
[12:19:46] <IchGucksLive> we got tiny roads
[12:19:58] <fragalot> really nice when you start a new project where 90% of the grunt work can be re-used
[12:20:42] <Lcvette> i suppose i have a lot of research ahead
[12:21:05] <Lcvette> i thought i was getting close, now i feel like I'm starting all over...lol
[12:21:37] <IchGucksLive> maybe 6 years ago android 2.3 we harvested a GOV owned corn field and payd 10000 fee
[12:21:43] <Lcvette> that schematic too me aweek of evenings in research to put together
[12:21:45] <Tom_L> better to have a working circuit than a disapointment
[12:21:46] <IchGucksLive> there istarted the projekt
[12:21:55] <Lcvette> i agree
[12:22:08] <Tom_L> i've had some of both
[12:22:32] <IchGucksLive> shematic is fun but on finish you may miss a part
[12:22:57] <Lcvette> i figured o would bread board it first
[12:23:16] <Tom_L> breadboards are typically noisy
[12:23:26] <Tom_L> but somewhat ok for a concept
[12:23:39] <IchGucksLive> i personly need a big LCD like in Cars that can be seen day and night
[12:23:44] <IchGucksLive> like in Mercedes
[12:23:49] <Tom_L> plan on building 3 before you're done
[12:24:21] <Lcvette> sounds about right
[12:24:33] <fragalot> the thing I always forget is to leave room for test pins :P
[12:24:43] <IchGucksLive> im pencioner so i got LLLOTSSS of time
[12:24:48] <Lcvette> test pins?
[12:25:11] <fragalot> Lcvette: simple pads or pins that you can use to measure signals on
[12:25:20] <fragalot> eg. hook up your oscilloscope
[12:25:21] <Lcvette> ah
[12:25:24] <IchGucksLive> ar age 70+ brasin runs out and the helth is taking effects
[12:25:57] <IchGucksLive> as today 22years running full service while i pause at the time
[12:27:11] <Lcvette> so to recap... i should use a micropchip, learn programming, become an electronics engineer
[12:27:22] <Lcvette> lol
[12:27:26] <Lcvette> got it
[12:27:35] <jesseg> Lcvette, or run a bloody wire :D :D :D
[12:27:44] <IchGucksLive> no better to go mechanics
[12:28:13] <IchGucksLive> at this time you can make so many money on Tileman
[12:28:35] <IchGucksLive> housebuilder
[12:28:39] <IchGucksLive> even gardener
[12:28:40] <Tom_L> Lcvette it's all fun
[12:28:50] <Lcvette> the wire gets tangled in the ATC
[12:28:55] <Tom_L> just depends what you want to do
[12:28:57] <IchGucksLive> Tom_L, fully agree
[12:29:09] <jesseg> Lcvette, but actually yeah it's all fun and will round out your abilities as a maker
[12:30:03] <Tom_L> or drive you to drink
[12:30:45] <Lcvette> ts555, mosfet, verify irled voltage drop, use a ceramic bypass cap
[12:31:09] <IchGucksLive> Tom_L, in 1978 long time ago i hardly learnd the differece between can i have a drink to can i got somthing to drink
[12:31:28] <Lcvette> space traces, make traces wider, group and position components better
[12:31:56] <Tom_L> higher current traces are wider too
[12:32:06] <Tom_L> there are trace width calculators out there
[12:33:14] <Tom_L> follow them or the trace may become a fuse
[12:33:54] <Lcvette> what does the mosfet do?
[12:34:04] <Lcvette> like a regulator?
[12:34:09] <Tom_L> no
[12:34:10] <jesseg> Lcvette, a switch
[12:34:31] <jesseg> it allows a very low current signal from the 555 to turn on and off a load of several amps
[12:34:34] <Tom_L> more like a relay on your cnc. a drive signal switches higher current
[12:34:53] <jesseg> except it's faster than a mechanical relay :D
[12:34:55] <Lcvette> gotcha
[12:35:30] <Tom_L> mosfets are preferred due to less loss across the channel
[12:35:51] <Lcvette> am i replacing something?
[12:35:56] <Lcvette> or just adding
[12:35:59] <Tom_L> adding
[12:36:01] <jesseg> adding
[12:36:02] <Lcvette> ok
[12:36:41] <Lcvette> ok.. think i understand
[12:37:11] <Lcvette> power through the mosfet, and switch s signal to master from ts555
[12:37:26] <Tom_L> yup
[12:37:30] <Lcvette> master/mosfet
[12:37:50] <Lcvette> making sense
[12:38:10] <Lcvette> ok i will redesign and report back
[12:38:21] <Tom_L> the legs are labelled different too
[12:38:29] <Tom_L> over a regular transistor
[12:38:54] <fragalot> jesseg: a mosfet allows a VOLTAGE signal to turn a load on and off
[12:39:01] <fragalot> jesseg: the low current signals are transistors :P
[12:39:08] <Tom_L> where you have Emitter Base Collector you have Source Gate Drain
[12:39:10] <fragalot> nobody in their right mind uses transistors anymore these days
[12:40:16] <Lcvette> https://easyeda.com
[12:40:25] <Lcvette> that's the project page
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[12:41:50] <Tom_L> if you're using _some_ surface mount, i'd suggest going all the way
[12:41:56] <jesseg> fragalot, Trying to keep it simple for a beginner :D However, if we're going to split hairs, once we begin to operate a fet at other than a static state, i.e. AC signals, now we're dealing with dynamic conditions and current *does* flow. And it's still less than the available output current, assuming we're operating within the design intents of the part... :P :D :D
[12:42:32] <jesseg> Lcvette, here's how to use the mosfet: https://i.stack.imgur.com
[12:42:50] <pfred1> surface mount is not really how power capacity
[12:42:56] <pfred1> high power even
[12:43:00] <fragalot> jesseg: so no fet driver then to keep up with the high frequency signals and the high inrush currents into the gate then? :P
[12:44:41] <Lcvette> if anyone wants to join on easyeda, feel free
[12:44:47] <jesseg> fragalot, well, considering the frequency and characteristics of a signal small fet, I think the 555 should be fine. If it was a gang of 10 huge fets in parallel, running at a MHZ then lol yeah Houston we have a problem :D. Fet drivers are rated in 10s of amps LOL.
[12:45:16] <jesseg> signal->signle
[12:45:18] <pfred1> easy huh?
[12:46:25] <jesseg> fragalot, and besides, if we drive the fet too fast, we end up producing unwanted RF transmissions :P hence the common 27 ohm gate resistor :P
[12:46:36] <fragalot> :-)
[12:46:51] <fragalot> I remember my first bout with P-channel FETs for a high power application
[12:47:00] <fragalot> tried to get my trabant's 6V starter motor to run off of 12V
[12:47:07] <fragalot> never got it to work, lol
[12:47:42] <jesseg> oh, you were trying to PWM it to drop 12v to 6v?
[12:47:49] <fragalot> yeah
[12:48:02] <fragalot> but I never got the P-channel gate driver to work right
[12:48:04] <jesseg> that would take a decently sized and heatsank set of fets
[12:48:56] <fragalot> jesseg: well it was only about 300A .. ish :D
[12:49:35] <Lcvette> pfred: it seemed easy when i was doing it wrong...lol
[12:51:03] <fragalot> Lcvette: since you're going with discrete components anyway, might I add a cute suggestion?
[12:51:20] <Lcvette> of course
[12:51:30] <fragalot> Lcvette: make the LEDs always flash at a fixed frequency when the transmitter is on, so your receiver knows it works... and when it touches, change the frequency of the LEDs
[12:51:43] <fragalot> so in both cases, there is a signal going to the receiver
[12:51:56] <jesseg> fragalot, you might be amused to see one experiment I did - a self oscillating inductive heating osc using N and P channel fets in a full bridge, with no gate drivers: (First attempt with schmatics:) https://videoflier.com (Second attempt, water cooled:) http://videoflier.com
[12:52:26] <Lcvette> would that require a second time?
[12:52:26] <fragalot> argh auto playing videos!
[12:52:33] <Lcvette> timer?
[12:53:13] <Lcvette> or a switch to route the timer legs through a different resistor i guess
[12:53:28] <fragalot> Lcvette: exactly.
[12:53:47] <fragalot> you just put another resistor in parallel, or short one that was in series
[12:53:49] <fragalot> either way would work
[12:55:29] <Tom_L> or do it in software :D
[12:55:55] <fragalot> could do, but since Lcvette is only just starting out with electronics.. keeping it discrete is nicer
[12:56:15] <pfred1> jesseg they sell those things in China
[12:56:52] <Lcvette> i am game to tackle software if it's not too complicated
[12:57:01] <jesseg> pfred1, yeah theirs are better. But this was sooner :P and much more compact, and water cooled :D
[12:57:11] <Lcvette> and shrinks the circuit board
[12:57:13] <Lcvette> lol
[12:57:20] <fragalot> Lcvette: essentially, in the world of embedded, you can spend more than half of your time debugging the debugger :P
[12:57:21] <pfred1> jesseg I hear the right kind of capacitors is hard to get
[12:57:43] <Lcvette> ah
[12:58:00] <fragalot> you won't shrink your board to less than what you have now
[12:58:24] <Lcvette> even that little one Tom_L sent earlier?
[12:58:25] <jesseg> pfred1, and this was kind of a challenge to do it with very few components. The Royer Osc topology was just very interesting due to how there was nothing other than the fets and the caps and the output coil plus an input inductor
[12:58:40] <fragalot> Lcvette: that little board was ONLY for communication
[12:58:55] <Lcvette> oh
[12:59:47] <IchGucksLive> im off Gn8
[12:59:52] -!- IchGucksLive has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[12:59:58] <jesseg> yeah bye :P
[12:59:58] <pfred1> that nail has a good glow to it
[13:00:26] <jesseg> pfred1, yeah the camera is sensitive to IR :P
[13:01:36] <pfred1> it is a good thing you didn't upzip in the video
[13:02:06] <pfred1> put the other thumb drive in the coil
[13:02:11] <jesseg> LOL....
[13:02:43] <pfred1> what are the ycalled a ZFS drive?
[13:03:07] <jesseg> I think so
[13:03:32] <jesseg> although that could refer to any scheme, even a CPU driven switching system as long as the switching took place during zero current
[13:03:44] <jesseg> this one naturally takes place at zero current
[13:04:01] <pfred1> I've been fixing on getting into making SMPS
[13:04:11] <jesseg> cool
[13:04:29] <pfred1> I just ordered an inductance meter
[13:04:57] <pfred1> and sole new soldering iron tips so I'm gearing up for some electronics
[13:06:13] <pfred1> I want to see what passing some pulses into coils does
[13:07:03] <pfred1> I might need some new transistors though
[13:09:14] <jesseg> pfred1, the current in a coil is essentially equal to the (voltage/inductance)*time. At a given inductance and voltage, the current rises linearly from zero until the core saturates or the coil melts or the wires going to the coil melts.
[13:09:38] <jesseg> Of course with small values of henries the time it takes to saturate or reach huge currents is very very short
[13:09:45] <pfred1> those were some neat wires coming off that coil
[13:10:16] <jesseg> huh?
[13:10:17] <pfred1> I've never seen anything quite like them before other than maybe high end speaker wire
[13:10:48] <jesseg> oh in the video, LOL they are just stranded 10 gauge copper speaker wire with red transparent jacket
[13:10:57] <jesseg> they are pretty
[13:11:00] <pfred1> ah so it is audophile speaker wire
[13:11:09] <jesseg> actually it is, someone gave me scraps
[13:11:13] <pfred1> audiophile even
[13:11:23] <jesseg> I'm not at all an audiophile
[13:11:24] <pfred1> yeah that stuff is a scam
[13:11:31] <jesseg> yup
[13:11:34] <pfred1> how many Watts would yo uneed ot need wire that big?
[13:11:46] <jesseg> huh?
[13:11:47] <pfred1> 100,000 Watt stereo?
[13:11:51] <jesseg> oh gotcha
[13:12:11] <pfred1> 16 gauge zip cord is plenty for most applications
[13:12:29] <pfred1> heck hair driers run on the stuff
[13:12:42] <jesseg> well, if your speakers are 4 ohms and you're running two in parallel for 2 ohms, then yeah regular zip cord at 0.01 ohms is only going to lose a percent
[13:13:12] <fragalot> skin effect.
[13:13:19] <pfred1> that's what the volume knob is for to make up for losses
[13:13:40] <pfred1> people think they have oscilloscopes for ears or something
[13:13:57] <fragalot> i've got my speakers bi-wired with 6AWG :P
[13:14:16] <pfred1> I'm sure copper miners are thanking you
[13:14:36] <fragalot> probably
[13:14:45] <fragalot> no regrets though
[13:15:03] <pfred1> I'm also sure in a side by side comparison you couldn't tell your wire apart from some zip cord
[13:15:32] <fragalot> depends on the wire gauge
[13:15:50] <jesseg> but if you're putting 260W into 2 ohms, that's only 11.5 amps so yeah no problem for even 14 awg
[13:16:21] <fragalot> these speakers do need more than a simple .75mm² zip cord
[13:16:31] <fragalot> otherwise they're just a waste of money
[13:17:24] <pfred1> I'm setting up a new surround system for this PC as soon as I get the TOSlink cable for it
[13:17:32] <jesseg> yeah get large format coaxial litz wire, do it right my friend, you want to hear every detail
[13:17:44] <pfred1> I scored a Sony 5.1 surround Blue Ray player for $10
[13:17:54] <jesseg> or better yet, put the amps IN the speaker boxes and run fiber optic LOL
[13:18:34] <pfred1> the thing listed for $599 new
[13:19:06] <pfred1> they managed to butcher up their speaker wires pretty good trying to splice them
[13:19:21] <pfred1> so I just took out their crap splices and respliced everything
[13:19:47] <fragalot> I only connect my appliances using the Denon AK-DL1 as well to make sure the bytes sound better
[13:20:06] <pfred1> I bought about the cheapest cable I could find out of China
[13:21:08] <pfred1> It cost me a whopping $3.57
[13:21:34] <pfred1> I'm sure it'll be fine
[13:21:49] <jesseg> was it oxygen free copper clad aluminum? LOL
[13:21:59] <pfred1> nah it's optical
[13:22:05] <fragalot> jesseg: with superconductor coils
[13:22:16] <pfred1> a Toslink cable for SPDIF
[13:22:43] <pfred1> I can't figure out any other way to connect my PC to that Blu Ray player
[13:23:32] <pfred1> I just hope I can get it all working
[13:23:49] <pfred1> this is unknown territory for me
[13:23:57] <pfred1> digital out
[13:24:41] <pfred1> me and computer audio has a checkered history
[13:26:57] <fragalot> https://www.youtube.com
[13:27:10] <fragalot> that's the first good use for 'm that i've found, lol
[13:29:41] <pfred1> jesseg I am checking out your "new soldernig board" video
[13:29:51] <pfred1> sounds a bit racist
[13:30:37] <pfred1> small amounts of flux funmes don't bother me
[13:30:57] <pfred1> but I don't recommend anyone dump a whole pound rool of flux core solder into a molten pot of solder
[13:31:43] <pfred1> that needs ventilation
[13:35:16] -!- hendrik_cnc has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
[13:41:15] <jesseg> pfred1, hmmm. what's racist?
[13:42:04] <pfred1> soldernig
[13:42:23] <pfred1> https://videoflier.com
[13:42:25] <jesseg> HAHAHA ok gotcha I hadn't noticed that.
[13:42:57] <jesseg> there reload see if its fixed now :P
[13:43:25] <jesseg> thanks btw :D
[13:43:32] <pfred1> much better
[13:43:35] <jesseg> well folks off to church. Cya all later!
[13:46:45] -!- gloops has joined #linuxcnc
[13:47:54] * gloops gives in and pours a glass
[13:48:04] <fragalot> or cucumber juice?
[13:48:06] <fragalot> of*
[13:48:47] <gloops> vino reddo
[13:48:59] <fragalot> grape juice :p
[13:49:47] <gloops> purely for medicinal purposes
[13:50:24] <gloops> clouded up earlier, its made it worse, like being under a heat lamp
[13:50:50] <pfred1> it was so cold this last winter I'm not complaining about any heat this summer
[13:51:11] <gloops> it was a bad winter here too pfred1
[13:51:45] <pfred1> I had some plants I brought on my 3 season room to keep them out of the cold and they all died
[13:52:31] <gloops> i had an engine freeze up, not heard of that here for 30 years
[13:53:19] <fragalot> I prefer cold to heat, personally
[13:53:34] <gloops> i do
[13:53:50] <pfred1> extremes of either are not good
[13:53:53] <fragalot> granted, when I say cold, I mean like.. -15°C at the lowest :P
[13:54:03] <gloops> i can live with harsh cold, comfortable with it
[13:54:12] <pfred1> not me
[13:54:22] <pfred1> can't do a lot of things in the cold
[13:54:22] <fragalot> it's heat I can't stand
[13:54:24] <gloops> prolonged hot spells i dont like, its ok for beach days buts thats about it
[13:54:49] <gloops> i never have a clear head when its hot like this
[13:55:23] <pfred1> it is only 94F here today
[13:55:32] <gloops> lol, only
[13:55:39] <pfred1> that's not so bad
[13:55:51] <pfred1> now 105F is hot
[13:55:55] <gloops> what does it get up to pfred1?
[13:56:05] <pfred1> for here this is pretty hot
[13:56:18] <pfred1> it usually only gets up to about 86F or so
[13:56:39] <pfred1> but we have a lot of humidity so 86F can be pretty oppressive
[13:57:14] <gloops> the army sorts men out into 2 groups for hot places, there are 2 types
[13:57:44] <gloops> type a you can drop straight in the jungle in high temps and they are fine out of the plane - for a short while, a few weeks maybe
[13:57:48] <gloops> then they drop
[13:58:19] <gloops> type b is useless at first, but slowly gets acclimatised - theyre fine after that
[13:58:34] <pfred1> you can get used to the heat
[13:59:16] <pfred1> the cold just wears though
[13:59:16] <fragalot> I can't join the army. bone spurs you see. :3
[13:59:33] <pfred1> when it was my time to join nothing was going on
[13:59:43] <gloops> theyll have you when all the fit young men are gone fragalot
[13:59:50] <pfred1> I was of age in the early 80s
[14:00:23] <pfred1> I ended up seeing more men die in the trenches in the private sector than if I'd have joined up
[14:00:24] <fragalot> gloops: see but i've also got astmha, blind in one eye & poor sight in the other, can't hear worth a damn, and i'm missing a leg and 4 fingers
[14:00:47] <fragalot> all due to those violent video games :P
[14:01:01] <gloops> also a strong inclination to exaggerate fragalot?
[14:01:07] <pfred1> I want ot get violent over sound support in Zandronum
[14:01:15] <fragalot> oh, and type 1 diabetic
[14:01:26] <fragalot> ...and a severe case of hemoroids
[14:01:29] <gloops> denmark score after 58 seconds...
[14:01:38] <pfred1> It has got me thinking about getting a sound card again
[14:01:42] <gloops> they could still do a lot with you fragalot
[14:01:47] <fragalot> gloops: also i'm gay
[14:01:54] <pfred1> don't ask don't tell
[14:01:59] <gloops> front of the queue then..
[14:02:23] <pfred1> if you're gay you want ot serve on a submarine
[14:02:27] <gloops> are you still working with the plastic pfred1?
[14:02:30] <fragalot> hah
[14:02:41] <pfred1> not lately too hot to cook plastic
[14:02:44] <fragalot> I consider myself more general material anyway
[14:02:50] <gloops> yes theres always a place for a lively cabin boy
[14:03:03] <fragalot> tell people to fly a drone out somewhere remote whilst I sit safely in a bunker in a black-site
[14:03:12] <pfred1> a submarine is just a can filled with seamen
[14:03:32] <gloops> signals is the obvious post for you fragalot
[14:03:49] <fragalot> have I mentioned the narcolepsy?
[14:04:07] <pfred1> if there was a decent war going on when I was of age I'd have gone in
[14:04:15] <fragalot> not to mention the epileptic fits I get when my tourettes goes off
[14:04:16] <gloops> wow, could be a few goals in this game 1-1 @ 4 minutes
[14:04:31] <pfred1> see some real combat
[14:04:34] <fragalot> gloops: they may be confusing it for a basketball match, score wise
[14:05:14] <pfred1> I was too young for Nam and too old for Iraq though
[14:05:23] <gloops> they look very enthusiastic
[14:05:26] <pfred1> I was robbed!
[14:05:48] <gloops> well, they werent real wars pfred1
[14:05:58] <pfred1> they would have been real enough for me
[14:06:15] <pfred1> if i could have fired a shot in anger I'd have been there
[14:06:44] <gloops> iraq was mainly testing new weapons and giving the old b52s a blowout
[14:07:05] <pfred1> hey we have no plans for retiring the B-52 for 75 more years
[14:07:15] <gloops> get rid of all that old ordnance
[14:07:21] <pfred1> it is an awesome weapons platform
[14:07:54] <pfred1> some BUFFs bombed a column of red guard tanks in Iraq and this other column of tanks watched
[14:07:58] <gloops> we scrapped our vulcan bombers, tragedy that was really, we scrapped everything
[14:08:04] <pfred1> they got out and ran into the desert
[14:08:23] <pfred1> they wanted no part of that action
[14:08:32] <gloops> yeah, it would have been a different story against Rommel
[14:08:50] <pfred1> he'd have run too
[14:09:20] <gloops> i dunno, he was pretty good with large scale armour movements
[14:09:26] <gloops> when he had the petrol
[14:09:35] <pfred1> can't out move a jet bomber in a tank
[14:10:09] <gloops> the germans had jets before america
[14:10:18] <pfred1> fat lot of good it did them
[14:10:31] <pfred1> we shot them down on the ground or as they took off
[14:10:50] <pfred1> ME-262s were sitting ducks on take off
[14:11:00] <gloops> http://www.defensemedianetwork.com
[14:11:16] <pfred1> the 163 komet was OK though
[14:11:26] <gloops> well, it was touch and go, another 6 months the yanks would have been in real trouble
[14:11:34] <pfred1> watching that thing take off is like watching an old hand cranked movie
[14:11:40] <pfred1> no way
[14:11:45] <gloops> yes the british Comet was the first jet fighter/bomber
[14:12:03] <pfred1> we made more tanks in a month than the germans made in the whole war
[14:12:32] <pfred1> they never grasped the scale of the war until it was far too late
[14:12:39] <gloops> hitler had 1000 mini subs almost complete, your navy would have been destroyed
[14:12:57] <gloops> and 500 me 262s
[14:13:00] <pfred1> we ended the war with 72 qaircraft carriers above the waves
[14:13:04] <gloops> could have been a game changer
[14:13:11] <pfred1> no it wouldn't have been
[14:13:27] <pfred1> the germans lacked the resources
[14:13:38] <pfred1> we'd have just nuked them
[14:13:40] <gloops> because they bit off too much
[14:13:48] -!- MattyMatt has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
[14:14:05] <gloops> but if dunkirk had failed, would have been a different story
[14:14:09] <pfred1> that's why we built the bomb they surrendered before we had a chance to use it on them though
[14:14:30] <gloops> the bomb was about stopping stalin
[14:14:35] <pfred1> no it wasn't
[14:14:40] <gloops> it was already known hitler would fail
[14:14:54] <gloops> stalin could easily have overrun all europe
[14:14:59] <pfred1> we thought the Germans could have developed an atomic weapon
[14:15:12] <pfred1> but as it turns out they didn't have the resources for that either
[14:15:29] <gloops> the brits destroyed the only heavy water plant at Telemark
[14:15:31] * Loetmichel just "painted" 10 meters quad black stripe on the asphalt. Including white smoke from the wheel wells... seems those 17 logged errors in the ABS controller arent there for decoration... should repair that... :-)
[14:15:36] <pfred1> the Manhattan Project is one of the largest engineering projects in human history
[14:16:20] <pfred1> it takes more than heavy water to make a bomb
[14:16:26] <Lcvette> how about this?
[14:16:30] <Lcvette> https://rover.ebay.com
[14:16:33] <gloops> you cant make a bomb without it though
[14:16:38] <pfred1> sure you can
[14:16:48] <gloops> you couldnt then
[14:16:50] <pfred1> we used uraninum and plutonium
[14:17:07] <fragalot> gloops: depends on how much you care about the workers handling the materials
[14:17:19] <fragalot> you can get by with very little if you don't.
[14:17:31] <Lcvette> is this a chip?
[14:17:38] <gloops> plenty of russian labour around at the time
[14:17:39] <pfred1> heavy water is only for making H bombs you need a fission bomb to initiate one of those though
[14:17:48] <Lcvette> like what you guys were discussing earlier?
[14:18:03] <fragalot> Lcvette: how much pfred1 has a death-wish
[14:18:24] <gloops> whats that for Lcvette?
[14:18:55] <Lcvette> wireless probe discussion from earlier today
[14:19:12] <Lcvette> started researching w
[14:19:31] <Lcvette> after looking at some of the links posted i got side tracked on eBay
[14:19:33] <fragalot> Lcvette: I don't think you can switch that one on & off fast enough
[14:19:36] <gloops> ahh, probing is not something i need atm
[14:19:47] <Lcvette> usually good for an hour or two time suck..lol
[14:19:55] <fragalot> it doesn't appear to have an on/off signal, only power
[14:20:00] <fragalot> and a big 470µF cap
[14:20:03] <Lcvette> ah
[14:20:06] <Lcvette> ok
[14:23:11] <miss0r> British Standard is such BS!
[14:23:25] <gloops> !
[14:23:37] <miss0r> :]
[14:23:40] <gloops> BSW? BSF?
[14:23:44] <gloops> BSP?
[14:23:52] <miss0r> In general
[14:23:54] <fragalot> BSPP or BSPT?
[14:24:11] <fragalot> shortened or standard?
[14:24:50] <miss0r> BS is just short for British Standard. My infantile mind finds that amusing
[14:24:51] <gloops> ive got a bucket full of of old brit nuts and bolts, almost..almost threw them out for scrap yesterday, but i didnt have the heart to do it
[14:25:18] <miss0r> I also have a bucket of old brit nuts and bolts. Its called a Land Rover :)
[14:25:24] <fragalot> lol
[14:25:25] <gloops> british is THE standard miss0r
[14:25:39] <fragalot> Here we go.
[14:25:46] * miss0r ejects
[14:25:52] <gloops> for just about everything
[14:26:44] <fragalot> miss0r: so I've done some tests with the rf45 in it's gibless state
[14:27:06] <gregcnc> miss0r just dropped grenade and ran
[14:27:26] <fragalot> column back & forth is straight within 0.02mm over the entire length of travel (wear, can't scrape that in because I don't have a large enough reference surface)
[14:27:33] <fragalot> left to right is absolutely spot on
[14:27:52] <fragalot> and the table appears to move in a perfect 90° :P
[14:28:18] <fragalot> with so little effort too that moving 0.001mm back & forth is no issue whatsoever
[14:28:21] <fragalot> love it.
[14:28:21] <miss0r|office> woah. That sounds nice
[14:28:47] <miss0r|office> gregcnc: Not realy 'ran' per say. I just felt like I needed to sit down for this :D
[14:29:08] <fragalot> miss0r: be honest. you ran upstairs.
[14:29:15] <miss0r|office> And in all fairness. I do own a Land Rover
[14:29:18] <gloops> gregcnc it was different in 1940 though
[14:29:31] <fragalot> can't get stuck in the past gloops
[14:29:33] <fragalot> be modern
[14:29:34] <gloops> when we were the only thing standing between you and hitler
[14:29:34] <fragalot> consume
[14:29:35] <fragalot> dispose
[14:29:36] <fragalot> etc
[14:29:46] <fragalot> guys
[14:29:48] <fragalot> godwin.
[14:30:09] <miss0r|office> fragalot: hehe. Its hard to determin what exactly I did.. I have to go up some stairs from the front yard to the 'house level'. Then another sets of stairs to get into the house. Then I take the stairs down into the basement.
[14:30:28] <fragalot> miss0r|office: let's just agree stairs were involved.
[14:30:36] <fragalot> and you don't seem the type to just "walk" on stairs
[14:30:57] <Roguish> fragalot: hey, got any pictures of your machine?
[14:31:03] <miss0r|office> I like to leave a little something in there for the imagination
[14:31:12] <fragalot> Roguish: Hell no, it's an ugly bastard that should never see the light of day
[14:31:18] <miss0r|office> Roguish: no, it didn't happen
[14:31:49] <fragalot> mechanically sound (now), but an eyesore. :-)
[14:31:57] <fragalot> also - that grey paint refuses to dry
[14:32:01] <miss0r|office> I told you not to paint it pink !
[14:32:12] <Roguish> ugly is good
[14:32:16] <gloops> sounds ok to me fragalot
[14:32:18] <Loetmichel> miss0r: why not?
[14:32:20] <miss0r|office> lol. Is there something wrong with that paint of yours?
[14:32:47] <fragalot> miss0r|office: dunno, first time i've tried rustoleum
[14:32:54] <miss0r|office> Loetmichel: It attracts the flamboyant machining crowd
[14:33:09] <pfred1> thin coats
[14:33:17] <miss0r|office> fragalot: meh.. the sink based stuff?
[14:33:41] <fragalot> miss0r|office: http://www.rust-oleum.eu
[14:33:58] <Loetmichel> the lads that had nearly finished their mandatory service term on the boat i did my service on painted it bright pink in a single night... they havent worked that hard on their entire 12 month service term as in that night. imagine the Commanders face when he went on the boat in the next morning ...
[14:34:05] <fragalot> applied to bare cast iron
[14:34:21] <pfred1> you prep the metal?
[14:34:33] <gloops> lol Loetmichel, kinda reminds me of something
[14:34:40] <pfred1> like wipe it down with lacquer thinner?
[14:34:44] <fragalot> pfred1: if you count a wire wheel in an angle grinder followed by degreaser as prep, yes
[14:34:55] <pfred1> yeah that should do it
[14:35:01] <gloops> should have slapped 2 coats of red oxide on first fragalot + 1 coat of aluminium
[14:35:15] <miss0r|office> Or just used hammerite
[14:35:19] <pfred1> if paint really doesn't dry then you have to hit it with the heat lamps
[14:35:20] <fragalot> miss0r|office: I should have.
[14:35:36] <pfred1> there's stuff called japan drier too
[14:35:39] <fragalot> but the shop I went to seems to have converted from hammerite to rustoleum a few weeks ago
[14:36:02] <fragalot> and the other shops I know of have both been bought out by a larger company & are converting their stock (eg. they have NOTHING anymore)
[14:36:07] <miss0r|office> heh. Next time you go there, they will only be selling hammerite again :D
[14:36:22] <fragalot> pfred1: I could just leave the door open, hot enough outside :P
[14:36:23] <Lcvette> machine all good now fragalot?
[14:36:34] <fragalot> Lcvette: yup, just need me some gibs! :D
[14:36:36] <miss0r|office> no explaination, and they will deny ever selling that rustolium :D
[14:36:42] <pfred1> heat is good but direct radiation is the ticket
[14:36:56] <fragalot> it's only been.. what, 2 weeks?
[14:36:58] <fragalot> xD
[14:36:58] <Lcvette> going to make them?
[14:37:01] <gloops> depends on the paint
[14:37:12] <pfred1> yeah it should dry faster than 2 weeks
[14:37:27] <fragalot> Lcvette: hoping to get someone to make them,.. difficult to make gibs if you don't have any machines (or even stock) to do it
[14:37:28] <pfred1> was this sprayed or rolled or brushed?
[14:37:36] <fragalot> and I don't feel like filing the whole taper
[14:37:36] <gloops> something has caused a very slow cure
[14:37:39] <fragalot> pfred1: roller
[14:37:48] <pfred1> yeah I know it says don't think it down but
[14:37:52] * miss0r|office went to fragalots shop one night and mixed some sewingmachine oil in the paint
[14:37:53] <pfred1> thin it down even
[14:37:59] <Lcvette> rf45?
[14:38:05] <fragalot> miss0r|office: BASTARD! how did you get that into a sealed tin?
[14:38:05] <pfred1> sometimes a bit of thinner helps
[14:38:09] <fragalot> Lcvette: Yes.
[14:38:22] <Lcvette> if imagine you can buy some
[14:38:25] <miss0r|office> fragalot: Look for a 0.8mm drilles hole in the buttom, with a smilet sticker over it
[14:38:26] <fragalot> pfred1: perhaps, might help it flash off
[14:38:28] <Lcvette> I'd
[14:38:32] <fragalot> but the base layer should dry :P
[14:38:36] <fragalot> miss0r|office: hehe
[14:38:41] <pfred1> fragalot yes
[14:38:48] <miss0r|office> I need to get gone. see you around
[14:38:48] <fragalot> why on earth would you drill a hole rather than just punch the needle through?
[14:38:52] <pfred1> I've had fiberglass not kick off for me sometimes too
[14:39:00] <miss0r|office> fragalot: reasons
[14:39:04] <Wolf__> make sure its not paint that require hardener
[14:39:05] <fragalot> also
[14:39:08] <pfred1> that can be frustrating
[14:39:10] <fragalot> I put all the bolts in my mold
[14:39:19] <miss0r|office> :o getting there :D
[14:39:23] <fragalot> ready to be cast.. next month maybe?
[14:39:30] <fragalot> don't really want to do it right before I leave on holiday, lol
[14:39:32] <miss0r|office> if you get some gibs made ;)
[14:39:43] <fragalot> Wolf__: it's not
[14:39:45] <miss0r|office> Now I realy need to go, before the wife murders me ;)
[14:39:48] <miss0r|office> see you around
[14:39:51] <fragalot> cya miss0r|office
[14:39:52] <gloops> pfred1 grp is a chemical cure only, evaporation doesnt play any big part
[14:39:58] <Loetmichel> miss0r / gloops : and that was no small vessel either... 70m long, 700brt, ~7000hp diesels ;)
[14:40:04] <gloops> i suspect fragalot has used wrong thinners
[14:40:15] <fragalot> gloops: how about no thinners?
[14:40:23] <pfred1> gloops MEK makes the glass hot
[14:40:26] <Lcvette> fragalot is it a true rf45 or clone?
[14:40:29] <gloops> ahh no thinners - thats it
[14:40:36] <Loetmichel> all painted in that flourescent pink paint meant for stem/hydraulic pipes ,)
[14:40:43] <fragalot> Lcvette: a poorly described rf45 clone :D
[14:40:44] <Loetmichel> steam
[14:41:00] <Lcvette> band?
[14:41:01] <pfred1> put too much hardener into resin and it'll combust
[14:41:06] <Lcvette> brand?
[14:41:15] <fragalot> I got the central oiler on it to work too.. turns out the checkvalve/orifice valves I thought I had were piston dosing valves
[14:41:16] <Roguish> fragalot: come on, let's see some pics.
[14:41:22] <fragalot> which don't work well with a hand pump
[14:41:31] <fragalot> Lcvette: HBM from 2008
[14:41:40] <gloops> with 2 pack paints you should never put heavy coats on
[14:41:41] <Lcvette> HBM?
[14:41:44] <fragalot> Roguish: once the gibs are in
[14:41:50] <gloops> first coat should only be a dust coat
[14:41:58] <fragalot> Lcvette: https://www.hbm-machines.com dutch chinagoods box shifter
[14:42:12] <pfred1> we ain't painting concourse show cars here
[14:42:15] <Roguish> i want to see this composite mold and setup
[14:43:07] <fragalot> gloops: http://www.rust-oleum.eu <= this is what I used. application: roller, for application onto bare metal, primer and topcoat in one, single layer required.
[14:43:11] <pfred1> high humidity can make paint not setup too
[14:43:12] <gloops> Roguish dont give in to the temptation, fragalots hair has turned white in 6 months
[14:43:42] <fragalot> Roguish: will show it some other time, honestly can't be arsed to go outside in the heat anymore today
[14:43:57] <fragalot> pfred1: that might be it, though it's so dry that the sahara dust is coating everything
[14:44:32] <pfred1> that's why lamps beat air flow
[14:45:03] <pfred1> I have infrared heat lamps for curing paint
[14:45:12] <pfred1> stuff works
[14:45:50] <pfred1> I've pushed the painting season envelope more than once
[14:46:07] <gloops> shouldnt have much trouble with that kind of paint though
[14:46:11] <fragalot> turns out i'm not the only one having issues with rustoleum not drying
[14:46:38] <pfred1> yeah low VOC environmental stuff makes paint suck today
[14:46:54] <gloops> maybe didnt stir it fragalot?
[14:46:55] <pfred1> you have to add all the good poisions back in yourself
[14:47:12] <fragalot> gloops: had 'm put it in the shaker at the shop, and used an electric stirrer at home
[14:47:20] <Lcvette> fragalot: is it similar to this machine? https://www.grizzly.com
[14:47:25] <fragalot> perhaps it's TOO stirred :P
[14:48:24] <fragalot> Lcvette: similar, except i've got a big bastard of a motor, and the quill handles have balls on them, and the control panel is.. well, broken,.. but a plastic start/stop only
[14:48:34] <fragalot> oh and a separate reverse & motor speed selector
[14:48:55] <fragalot> no power feed though,.. that's on the to-do list
[14:48:57] <pfred1> that's a Sieg X3
[14:49:29] <Lcvette> just saying perhaps replacements are available for your gibbs
[14:49:58] <Lcvette> i purchased replacements for my G0704 and they come extra long and require fitting
[14:50:10] <fragalot> Lcvette: I re-machined the ways, so unless the replacement ones are much thicker than they need to be, or much longer, they will not work
[14:50:13] <fragalot> hm...
[14:50:16] <pfred1> https://www.machineryhouse.com.au
[14:50:17] <fragalot> any idea where I could get those?
[14:50:25] <Lcvette> they are
[14:50:35] <Lcvette> about 5" longer
[14:51:00] <fragalot> interesting!
[14:51:14] <Lcvette> and thicker
[14:51:15] <fragalot> http://docdro.id <= these are the dimensions (approx) that I would need now
[14:51:20] <fragalot> http://docdro.id
[14:52:32] <fragalot> So where would one obtain said replacement gibs?
[14:53:10] <Lcvette> damn just looked, they are not available for that machine in the parts list
[14:53:31] <Lcvette> https://www.grizzly.com
[14:53:43] <pfred1> I took the gib out of my machine and it looked like they surfaced it by throwing it on a gravel road and driving over it
[14:53:59] <Lcvette> but there is a part number
[14:54:14] <fragalot> pfred1: haha yeah same on mine
[14:54:22] <fragalot> suspended it from 2 points too when they did that
[14:54:44] <pfred1> fragalot I think they're supposed to be that way to hold oil?
[14:55:04] <Lcvette> not bent or bowed
[14:55:08] <fragalot> pfred1: thye are indeed supposed to be flaked, but they are also supposed to be flat, which they weren't on mine
[14:55:14] <pfred1> yeah mine has a bow in it too
[14:55:16] <fragalot> Lcvette: mine were twisted too
[14:55:23] <fragalot> totally useless :D
[14:55:31] <Loetmichel> whats a gib?
[14:55:36] <Lcvette> the replacements i got we flat
[14:55:47] <Lcvette> were*
[14:55:51] <pfred1> it may get bowed in use?
[14:55:58] <Lcvette> stockers were bent
[14:56:05] <Lcvette> no
[14:56:05] <fragalot> Loetmichel: tapered piece of metal that wedges in between dovetails to adjust them
[14:56:17] <Lcvette> gets bowed from over tightening from factory
[14:56:26] <fragalot> pfred1: no, if it bends that's because either they didn't care, or it wasn't aged
[14:56:27] <Lcvette> or poor Machining
[14:56:27] <pfred1> or i might have over tightened it?
[14:56:38] <fragalot> you CAN bend most back
[14:56:41] <fragalot> and re-scrape them
[14:56:47] <Loetmichel> fragalot: ah. those small "knife" like thingys to adjust play?
[14:56:56] <fragalot> Loetmichel: wouldn't say small, but yes.
[14:57:04] <Lcvette> good should only be tightened to stop movement not actually "tight"
[14:57:09] <pfred1> in any event it works fine
[14:57:20] <fragalot> anyway we're going off track here
[14:57:31] <fragalot> I believe we were talking about replacement gibs for my machine? :D
[14:57:42] <pfred1> what way oil I use was the biggest difference with the ways of my machine
[14:57:58] <pfred1> I swear by chainsaw bar lube personally gives a nice feel
[14:58:08] <Lcvette> if you have a local shop they should be able to make some
[14:58:12] <gregcnc> loetmichel keilleiste?
[14:58:27] <gloops> https://www.ebay.co.uk < for rolling what?
[14:58:30] <fragalot> Lcvette: yeah i've got 2 guys lined up for that, but if there was an off the shelf solution that'd be nice
[14:58:31] <Loetmichel> gregcnc: yes
[14:58:36] <Loetmichel> thats the german word
[14:58:42] <syy__> rolling cigaretts, gloops
[14:58:43] <Loetmichel> just didnt knew "gib"
[14:58:49] <fragalot> gloops: for rolling patents
[14:58:53] <fragalot> it says so in the name
[14:58:55] <Lcvette> they still generally need Machining or grinding
[14:58:59] <Loetmichel> you'll learn new things every day ;)
[14:59:14] <syy__> machinery manufacturers will have gib-blanks
[14:59:16] <gloops> ahh yes, well spotted syy__
[14:59:17] <Lcvette> mine were to thick
[14:59:21] <fragalot> Lcvette: scraping them in isn't an issue
[14:59:24] <syy__> but there is nothing off-the-shelf generaly
[14:59:30] <gloops> some would have taken that to be bigger than it looks
[14:59:46] <fragalot> syy__: any suggestions for which one to contact for a 2008 vintage low grade rf45 clone?
[15:00:01] <Lcvette> you good d at scraping?
[15:00:09] <syy__> maybe a priest? for some faithfull help ;)
[15:00:21] <fragalot> Lcvette: good enough if I take my time
[15:00:36] <syy__> problem is, there are so many hole-in-the-wall-companies that build the rf45 style machines
[15:00:39] <fragalot> syyl's tips have made a huge difference
[15:00:54] <fragalot> syy__: Yup. :D at least i've got drawings of the gibs I need?
[15:00:56] <Lcvette> yeah gibs are difficult to scrape
[15:01:03] <syy__> if you get a gib from -for example- optimum, it might not fit in a real rong-fu-rf45
[15:01:18] <fragalot> I'm sure it wouldn't
[15:01:19] <Loetmichel> gloops: funny... i can see that working for cigarrettes... never seen something like it though... usually the small machine here look like that: https://www.ebay.de
[15:01:44] <Lcvette> better to have them ground proper then add a light flake
[15:01:57] <fragalot> I'm also sure that the manufacturer of the machine I have is either no longer in business, or has changed the gibs by now, and can't remember what they were when mine was made :P
[15:02:16] <syy__> i just machine them from solid
[15:02:22] <fragalot> Lcvette: managed to scrape the dovetails, fairly sure the gib 'l work out too
[15:02:29] <syy__> but if thats your only mill, thats not an option, i know ;)
[15:02:54] <fragalot> syy__: well.. I could make a temporary gib for the X out of JB-weld, and hammer some wooden wedges in the Y
[15:02:58] <fragalot> :P
[15:02:59] <gloops> Loetmichel yes the cig machines usually have some fabric or a 'belt' round the rollers
[15:03:05] <syy__> sounds reasonable ;)
[15:03:05] <Lcvette> gib has a compound angle
[15:03:08] <fragalot> or get some ebony and hand-plane it
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[15:03:12] <syy__> or just wedge a banana in
[15:03:17] <fragalot> Lcvette: it doesn't, actually
[15:03:26] <syy__> a tapered gib is just a wedge
[15:03:32] <syy__> with two chamfers
[15:03:34] <pfred1> I was thinking it may be good to make a wooden model
[15:03:39] <syy__> nothing compound going on there
[15:04:23] <Lcvette> the
[15:04:34] <syy__> i thought for the longest time that they are compound. until i had to make one from scratch :D
[15:04:34] <Lcvette> uh....
[15:04:54] <Loetmichel> arent gibs intentionally NOT hardened?
[15:05:07] <syy__> they are usualy cast iron
[15:05:12] <Loetmichel> to be weaker than the dovetails an be the part that wears out?
[15:05:35] <syy__> and all cast iron dovetails are generaly unhardened
[15:05:47] <syy__> its a shitty combination, but thats what we are stuck with
[15:06:08] <Loetmichel> i had some cheap small machinery (proxxon stuff) where the gibs were made from brass and the dovetails from cast iron
[15:06:14] <syy__> cast on hardened/ground toolsteel would be much nicer
[15:06:27] <syy__> or turcite on hardened steel
[15:06:40] <syy__> (thats what kitamura does on their cnc machines)
[15:06:49] <Loetmichel> whats turcite?
[15:06:50] <CaptHindsight> most don't care about more than just price
[15:07:02] <syy__> bronce infused PTFE
[15:07:12] <Loetmichel> ah
[15:07:15] <Loetmichel> sounds nice
[15:07:26] <syy__> gets glued on the way and then machined/scraped
[15:07:32] <CaptHindsight> is there a market left for people that actually want things made well?
[15:07:38] <syy__> yeah
[15:07:45] <syy__> thats why kitamura is still in buisness ;)
[15:07:57] <pfred1> my mill is a piece of crap and it's over 20 years old now
[15:08:09] <pfred1> still works
[15:08:20] <fragalot> syy__: i'm planning to make mine out of brass.. Any comments on that?
[15:08:25] <syy__> dont
[15:08:28] <syy__> ;)
[15:08:31] <fragalot> Right.
[15:08:40] <pfred1> bronze might not be bad
[15:08:41] <fragalot> I'mma do it anyway
[15:08:51] <syy__> if i was stuck on an island and i had to fix my mill
[15:08:56] <syy__> i would use brass
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[15:09:28] <syy__> to me, its to soft and wears quite fast
[15:09:29] <gregcnc> bronze is also common
[15:09:31] <syy__> bronce would be nice
[15:10:03] <gloops> phosphorus bronze
[15:10:08] <gregcnc> ampco18
[15:10:26] <gloops> low melting point - old railway carriage bearings
[15:10:35] <Lcvette> yeah your right
[15:10:56] <Lcvette> i just checked my gibs, wedge
[15:11:00] <Lcvette> hmph
[15:11:20] <Lcvette> guess the edges the my perception off
[15:11:20] <fragalot> there's no reason to have a compound angle on them
[15:12:02] <Lcvette> i would use cast iron
[15:12:39] <Lcvette> are your ways hardened?
[15:12:44] <fragalot> yes and no
[15:12:47] <fragalot> they aren't supposed to be
[15:12:57] <fragalot> but the manufacturer found it necessary to weld up some spots
[15:13:06] <Lcvette> ah
[15:13:15] <fragalot> and those are hard enough to ruin a good carbide scraper :P
[15:13:42] <fragalot> ..so those spots are now little oil pockets. >.>
[15:14:05] <Lcvette> your staying manual
[15:14:10] <fragalot> yes
[15:14:19] <Lcvette> o not a huge deal then
[15:14:24] <fragalot> nope
[15:14:29] <fragalot> light use machine
[15:14:36] <Lcvette> keep them oiled
[15:14:42] <fragalot> way ahead of you
[15:14:44] <Lcvette> last forever
[15:14:49] <fragalot> installed a nice central oil system
[15:14:54] <Lcvette> nice
[15:14:59] <fragalot> from the manufacturer it did not even have oil points
[15:15:06] <fragalot> like.. literally nothing to lubricate the ways
[15:15:18] <Lcvette> sweet
[15:15:23] <fragalot> but it did have a single oil point on the Y handle
[15:17:48] <fragalot> https://www.youtube.com bahaha
[15:19:28] <gloops> looks tidy https://www.ebay.co.uk
[15:20:06] <Lcvette> did you link achillipeppers video?
[15:20:14] <fragalot> yes
[15:20:24] <Lcvette> ok
[15:20:30] <fragalot> red hot chilly peppers played using chilly peppers
[15:21:00] <fragalot> gloops: very tidy,.. why would you want a round bed?
[15:21:29] <gloops> screw is protected
[15:21:51] <gloops> not that that makes any difference to anything, lol
[15:21:58] <gloops> it just sounds sensible
[15:22:54] <fragalot> sounds like hell trying to keep everything aligned to me
[15:24:48] <gloops> no radial movement in the saddle
[15:24:56] <gloops> or tailstock
[15:25:23] <fragalot> there will be movement. no key is perfect
[15:25:31] <fragalot> or it wouldn't move freely
[15:25:45] <gloops> someone was going to cnc one - screw protected down middle of round bed - it would make some difference with a ballscrew
[15:26:21] <fragalot> no reason why you couldn't have the scrw going down the middle of a standard lathe bed, if it was purpose designed for it
[15:26:30] <fragalot> put telescoping covers on top and you're done
[15:26:34] <gloops> fragalot no more than with angular ways
[15:26:36] <fragalot> rigid centre-screw.
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[15:26:51] <fragalot> angular ways allow for zero movement
[15:26:53] <fragalot> that's the whole point
[15:27:06] <fragalot> there is a V to line it up back & forth, and a flat surface in the back to keep it level
[15:27:23] <fragalot> the harder you push down onto it, the more the V keeps it alingde
[15:30:17] <gloops> they dont move - many thousands of these sold
[15:41:41] <Lcvette> fragalot: went out and dig these up http://imgur.com
[15:42:05] <Lcvette> http://imgur.com
[15:42:17] <Lcvette> these were what i received as replacements
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[15:42:23] <fragalot> looks about right :P
[15:42:27] -!- infornography has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[15:42:39] <Lcvette> smaller was stock
[15:42:50] <fragalot> i'd have guessed it was the other way around, lol
[15:43:20] <fragalot> did it fit at all as is, or did you first need to remove 1 or 2mm before it would even think about going in?
[15:44:18] <Lcvette> i had to face a few thou to get it to slide all the way through
[15:44:47] <fragalot> scraping allowance. nice
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[15:45:09] <Lcvette> at the time i was pissed because the machine was torn apart
[15:45:38] <fragalot> hehe
[15:45:41] <Lcvette> more like .025-.030"
[15:45:47] <fragalot> did you have any issues fitting yours back together?
[15:45:49] <Lcvette> not scraping allowance
[15:45:59] <fragalot> because I wanted to give the designers a good talking to
[15:46:37] <fragalot> can't get to the Y nut when the saddle is in place, and you can't put the saddle in place when the nut is already installed
[15:46:44] <fragalot> so you have to do some magic getting that together
[15:47:03] <fragalot> then the X nut needs to come off again because the table can't slide on without that in place
[15:47:07] <fragalot> but you can't tighten that when the table is in place
[15:47:10] <fragalot> ._.
[15:47:11] <Lcvette> luckily the extra length allowed me to reverse two gibs and clamp them down and surface them to height
[15:47:12] <pfred1> that's what hammers are for
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[15:47:37] <pfred1> I bought another hammer this weekend
[15:47:52] <pfred1> I knew i didn't need it but I bought it anyways
[15:47:58] <Lcvette> hammers work for some
[15:48:00] <pfred1> because it was cheap
[15:48:12] <gloops> axe/hammer probably the #1 tool ever invented
[15:48:24] <pfred1> it is kind of an axe hammer
[15:48:46] <gloops> roofers axe?
[15:48:48] <Lcvette> sounds precision pfred
[15:48:56] <pfred1> nah I have those I didn't get another one of them
[15:49:05] <pfred1> oh it is precision
[15:49:13] <pfred1> it's an Estwing chipping hammer
[15:49:26] <pfred1> they retail for like $40
[15:49:36] <gloops> 80 oz?
[15:49:48] <pfred1> nah I think it is about 20
[15:49:58] <pfred1> just guessing by the size of it
[15:50:10] <gloops> estwings are decent hammers, the leather handle version being superior
[15:50:32] <Lcvette> fragalot, i used a cup grinding wheel ne spindle for final passes with coolant to make sure it was flat
[15:50:56] <Lcvette> worked better than i imagined it would
[15:51:01] <fragalot> lol
[15:51:26] <pfred1> yeah this has the blue rubber handle
[15:52:06] <Lcvette> bolted a diamond dresser on the table
[15:52:15] <pfred1> I went to an estate sale and whatever I grabbed the girl was only charging a buck for any item
[15:52:23] <Lcvette> poor mans surface grinder
[15:52:43] <pfred1> so I bought a bunch of crap that Ididn't need
[15:52:52] <gloops> contrary to popular belief, the hammer was the preferred weapon in medieval times, not the axe
[15:53:47] <pfred1> including another pair of 10WR USA made Vise Grips
[15:53:51] <gloops> much easier to penetrate armour plate, you could open a helmet up like a can of sardines with a nice curved spike
[15:54:08] <pfred1> I must have a dozen of those now
[15:54:24] <pfred1> but for a buck I can't pass them up
[15:54:46] <pfred1> you'd have to physically restrain me
[15:55:32] <gloops> you have rescued them for posterity pfred1
[15:55:39] <pfred1> maybe I donno
[15:55:51] <pfred1> it's a disease
[15:55:56] <pfred1> toolitus
[15:56:18] <gloops> psychological definitely
[15:56:42] <gloops> something we have absolutely no use for, or room for - but must possess
[15:56:46] <pfred1> I'm good with Weller 8600s now
[15:56:52] <pfred1> ever since I got one mint in box
[15:57:13] <gloops> its a fetish, no more or less
[15:57:36] <pfred1> I could have bought a Dremel at that sale
[15:57:47] <pfred1> but i passed on it
[15:58:01] * gloops takes sharp intake of breath
[15:58:07] <pfred1> they only wanted $5 for the whole kit
[15:58:31] <pfred1> I have so many rotary tools now though
[16:01:17] * Loetmichel needs two new "dremel" (actually proxxon FBS 240) for the company. one has a dead motor bearing and the other smells like hell after a short while (enamel paint from the magnet wire) and gets hot as hell quick.
[16:01:40] <Loetmichel> neither dremel nor proxxon are meant for 8 hours a workday continous use ;)
[16:02:23] <Loetmichel> maybe i shoiuldn take them apart and make my own ones out of aluminium enclosures, oversized bearings and bigger beefier motors ;)
[16:06:53] <fragalot> Loetmichel: get yourself a foredom
[16:07:02] <fragalot> because those fit your description
[16:07:10] <pfred1> I have a Foredom
[16:07:17] <pfred1> they don't run as fast as Dremels do
[16:07:33] <fragalot> same, and i've got several whip marks on my right shoulder to prove it
[16:07:35] <pfred1> mine is 13,500 RPM
[16:07:40] <fragalot> mine's 18k
[16:07:48] <Loetmichel> fragalot: foredom?
[16:07:54] <pfred1> flex shaft tool
[16:08:05] <Loetmichel> have a link?
[16:08:06] <fragalot> Loetmichel: USA company making flex shaft tooling, I have a local guy that sells 'm
[16:08:15] <pfred1> I have a Swiss pneumatic ultra high speed rotary tool
[16:08:24] <fragalot> Loetmichel: http://www.foredom.net
[16:08:35] <pfred1> I think IPC brand?
[16:08:41] <Loetmichel> ah, those thingys
[16:08:45] <Loetmichel> no, thanks
[16:08:51] <Loetmichel> flex shaft is a no-go
[16:08:54] <pfred1> foredom is nice for some things
[16:08:55] <fragalot> alright
[16:09:04] <Loetmichel> had that curl around my arm one time to many ;)
[16:09:38] <fragalot> other than makita I don't know of many decent rotary tools
[16:09:47] <fragalot> proxxon tries, but their stuff always feels like cheep toys
[16:10:00] <Loetmichel> a "heavy duty" dremel (pr better proxxon because dremel have atrocious collets and shafts) would be ideal
[16:10:16] <pfred1> you want a pneumatic die grinder
[16:10:35] <pfred1> I hace a CP 860 that will take you for a ride
[16:10:36] <fragalot> pneumatic is expensive to run 8hrs a day
[16:10:48] <Loetmichel> not as big as a fein "geradschleifer" but somewhere in between a dremel and that
[16:10:50] <pfred1> it claims 1 horsepower
[16:11:15] <Loetmichel> pfred1: not a big enough compressor at the company for those air toos
[16:11:18] <Loetmichel> tools
[16:11:22] <pfred1> pneumatic will get a lot done in 8 hours
[16:11:37] <pfred1> take you a month with a Dremel
[16:11:51] <fragalot> very true, pneumatic is powerful for their size
[16:12:02] <fragalot> and typically doesn't overheat
[16:12:14] <pfred1> I also use rotozip tools as rotary tools too
[16:12:54] <pfred1> I have a couple rotozips
[16:13:02] <Loetmichel> thats all we got: http://www.cyrom.org
[16:13:54] <fragalot> that is not a whole lot of compressor :D
[16:14:15] <Loetmichel> indeed ;)
[16:14:20] <Loetmichel> also its quite old
[16:14:33] <Loetmichel> had to replace the starting cap on that picture
[16:14:34] <pfred1> the tank on my air compressor is from 1944
[16:14:39] <Loetmichel> we have two of that size though
[16:14:43] <Loetmichel> both old as fu**
[16:14:51] <pfred1> I think it came off a warship
[16:15:21] <pfred1> it is a real ASME rated tank it is super heavy
[16:15:58] <pfred1> it used to have a repulsion motor on it
[16:16:14] <pfred1> which is also super heavy
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[16:16:26] <Loetmichel> a friend of mine once made a compressor of a 60kW 3phase motor and a 1.6 liter golf 4cyl engine with a new head as a compressor... at 2800rpm that 300l tank was at 12 bar in an instant ;)
[16:16:38] <fragalot> hehe
[16:16:54] <pfred1> yeah that repulsion motor wasn't very powerful
[16:17:35] <pfred1> real high powered air compressors tend to be the screw variety
[16:18:05] <andypugh> A diesel engine should make quite a good high-pressure compressor.
[16:18:15] <pfred1> that's not what they use though
[16:18:17] <fragalot> I'm always impressed when I fire up the big atlas copco at work
[16:18:21] <pfred1> they make great trash pumps
[16:18:27] <fragalot> we've got a 3000 liter air tank hooked up to it
[16:18:41] <fragalot> and it fills the damn thing up to 10 bar in about 3 seconds from cold start
[16:19:05] <fragalot> but.. it does cost something like €500 a day to run the thing, lol
[16:19:15] <Loetmichel> in fuel?
[16:19:22] <pfred1> it has something in common with my bar bill then too
[16:19:52] <fragalot> Loetmichel: it's electric, but yes
[16:20:12] <fragalot> the little wheel on the power meter becomes a blur when that thing runs, lol
[16:21:07] <pfred1> wow I haven't seen a mechanical meter in a long time
[16:21:27] <fragalot> they were still in use up to a year ago here, and are only now being slowly replaced with digital
[16:21:44] <pfred1> my electric company pioneered data over power lines
[16:21:53] <Loetmichel> andypugh: the friend made a new head of the gold engine, consisting of a 20mm thick steel bar as wide as the head was... with 100 4mm holes drilled into each cylinder space... and 100 6mm steel balls in that, half of them with the ball falling out the bottom half with the ball falling in from the top
[16:22:07] <andypugh> By the waym this animation actually shows how a screw compressor works. Whereas most don’t, including the one on Wikipedia: https://www.youtube.com
[16:22:11] <pfred1> so we're all digital for a while
[16:22:16] <Loetmichel> stepped drills. 8mm nearly thru and then 4mm for the rest
[16:22:26] <Loetmichel> so that the ball can ratte around in the 8mm part
[16:22:51] <pfred1> I've taken enough beatings from screw compressors i know how they work
[16:22:52] <Loetmichel> then another plate on top with cavitys over the halves of intake and output: done
[16:23:04] <fragalot> hehe
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[16:23:26] <Loetmichel> it could pump up to e few 100 bar... but will rip up the crankshaft evenatually. been there seen that ;)
[16:23:51] <fragalot> should be fine to continually pump 25 bar though?
[16:23:53] <fragalot> or even 40
[16:24:09] <fragalot> I've got a little bicycle pump that I use for my airgun that goes to 250 bar ;-)
[16:24:11] <Loetmichel> fragalot: it could pump up to 120 bar continously
[16:24:23] <fragalot> i've been tempted to put a linear actuator on it so I don't have to pump it by hand
[16:24:31] <fragalot> Loetmichel: I meant without increased wear
[16:25:28] <andypugh> I ought to know what the normal pumping pressure is on an engine without combustion. I mean I _really_ ought to know.
[16:25:39] <andypugh> But seem to have forgotten.
[16:25:43] <Loetmichel> fragalot: no increased wear
[16:25:56] <Loetmichel> car engines have higher pressures in them when running
[16:26:10] <andypugh> I do recall being sent some data where the lowest pressure was -2 bar.
[16:26:21] <fragalot> andypugh: around 23 for your average diesel, I believe?
[16:26:23] <Loetmichel> andypugh: depends
[16:26:40] <Loetmichel> diesels up to 30 bar, petrol usually around 15 bar or less
[16:27:21] <andypugh> Isn’t that 30 bar including combustion?
[16:27:27] <fragalot> no
[16:27:32] <fragalot> that's just the compression ratio
[16:29:05] <Loetmichel> andypugh: depends on the engine
[16:29:18] <Loetmichel> i have worked on "all fuel" dieses that compress 1:30
[16:29:24] <Loetmichel> without combustion
[16:29:34] <Loetmichel> but usually its around 1:20 to 1:25
[16:29:43] <Loetmichel> diesels
[16:29:57] <Loetmichel> with combustion you are in the 200++ bar range
[16:30:06] <Loetmichel> for a short moment at OT
[16:30:31] <andypugh> When I say I “should know” I mean because I have spent weeks at a time sat in a dyno staring at live pressure traces. But I normally cared a lot more about the shape and gradient than the peak pressure.
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[17:08:47] <Tom_L> andypugh, in the neighborhood of 150psi
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[17:14:18] <Lcvette> cylinder pressure in a combustion engine not firing ranges depending on many factors, but generally is between 125-225psi
[17:19:09] <pfred1> sounds legit
[17:19:40] <pfred1> I need to rebuild the engine on my leaf blower it is whopped out now
[17:20:13] <pfred1> it is probably around 10 PSI
[17:27:25] <Lcvette> needs a turbo
[17:28:00] <pfred1> it needs a ring job
[17:28:35] <Tom_L> rebuild cost worth it on one of those?
[17:28:49] <pfred1> yeah a new one is like $1,200 or so
[17:28:59] <Lcvette> squirt a lottle marvel mystery oil in it roll on
[17:29:17] <Lcvette> leaf blower?
[17:29:17] <pfred1> I have a Giant Vac leaf blower
[17:29:28] <pfred1> you know one of them red blowers on wheels?
[17:29:37] <Lcvette> ah
[17:29:43] <pfred1> big property
[17:30:07] <Lcvette> what motor?
[17:30:17] <pfred1> it has a briggs 5 HP
[17:30:46] <Lcvette> man those are like $99
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[17:30:47] <pfred1> it sucked up its air filter and i kept running it
[17:31:04] <pfred1> yeah a ring kit will be like $5
[17:31:05] <Lcvette> just swap the motor
[17:31:12] <pfred1> plus it's an old briggs
[17:31:34] <pfred1> I don't know how old I bought it used
[17:31:47] <pfred1> I put an electronic ignition in it and it ran great for a long time
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[17:32:03] <pfred1> the ignition system cost like $60
[17:32:24] <Lcvette> if it's that worn out, a ring job probably is a half measure repair
[17:32:29] <pfred1> yeah I'm OK with rebuilding it I have all of the tools
[17:33:07] <pfred1> isn't everything a half measure?
[17:33:26] <pfred1> if i can get as much use otu of it as I already have I'm good
[17:33:32] <Lcvette> check your bore and piston measurements make sure they are in does
[17:33:47] <Lcvette> spec*
[17:33:56] <pfred1> I'll just ream it hone it ans toss in a new set of rings
[17:34:08] <pfred1> I'm sure it'll be fine
[17:34:33] <pfred1> it just has to blow leaves it doesn't have to win at Indy
[17:35:02] <Tom_L> it needs enough *poof* to blow em in the neighbor's yard...
[17:35:20] <pfred1> no neighbors here
[17:35:34] <pfred1> it has to blow the leaves off my lawn into my woods though
[17:36:52] <pfred1> up to last year it was doing the job but now it's tired
[17:37:15] <pfred1> it can't blow leaves over how tall it is which is about 2 feet
[17:38:29] <Lcvette> used to build those motors as a kid for gocarts
[17:39:54] <Lcvette> deck the heads, lap the valves, clean up the intake and exhaust ports, run a straight pipe header tuned to length for higher rpm, high flow Intel come on carb
[17:40:01] <Tom_L> i used mccullough on my cart
[17:40:54] <Lcvette> never heard of it
[17:41:21] <Tom_L> http://go-kart-engines.net
[17:41:36] <Tom_L> similar
[17:42:36] <Lcvette> sounds pro
[17:42:52] <Tom_L> 2 stroke with a pipe
[17:43:26] <Lcvette> we were kids with lawn mowing money jobs
[17:43:53] <Lcvette> scraping change together
[17:44:09] <Tom_L> i made one from wood too
[17:44:59] <Lcvette> that's how we started
[17:45:09] <Lcvette> and plastic lawn mower wheels
[17:45:19] <Lcvette> rope pull steering
[17:45:33] <Lcvette> lol
[17:45:35] <Tom_L> foot steering with a bolt thru the middle of a board
[17:45:42] <Lcvette> good times
[17:46:12] <Lcvette> we did that but Dad said wasn't safe
[17:46:24] <Tom_L> ran .67 cc on my race boat.. put out around 5hp
[17:46:34] <Lcvette> we were 7 or 8 at the time
[17:47:00] <Lcvette> circa 1982ish
[17:47:40] <Tom_L> https://www.mantuamodel.co.uk
[17:48:09] <Tom_L> ~400ish a pop
[17:49:07] <Lcvette> nice
[17:49:18] <Tom_L> didn't run the stock carb though
[17:49:26] <Tom_L> or expansion pipe
[17:50:15] <Tom_L> considering the size of a 5hp briggs...
[17:52:48] <Lcvette> was this a rc?
[17:52:53] <Tom_L> yes
[17:52:57] <Lcvette> ok
[17:53:39] <Tom_L> my bud was machining rods etc for em
[17:53:50] <Tom_L> lighter flywheels
[17:53:58] <Lcvette> nice
[17:54:04] <Tom_L> lotsa fun
[17:56:53] <pfred1> my uper power is breaking things so light things and me don't stay together for long
[17:57:05] <pfred1> super power even
[17:57:46] <pfred1> the impeller on my Giant Vac is about a quarter of an inch thick so it's holding up good so far
[17:58:08] <pfred1> though I did manage to put my jacket throug hit once
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[18:08:15] <Deejay> gn8
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[18:45:55] <andypugh> https://www.youtube.com An African Grey parrot using Alexa.
[18:47:48] <pfred1> Alexa make me a sammich
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[19:33:58] <Lcvette> log
[19:33:58] <c-log> Lcvette: Today's Log http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81
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[21:06:21] <Tom_L> does freecad post to lcnc?
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[21:12:43] <XXCoder> hmm maybe?
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[22:36:45] <Tecan> https://files.cults3d.com
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[22:37:40] <XXCoder> that website meta config is broken
[22:37:47] <Tecan> https://cults3d.com this links better i guess
[22:39:42] <XXCoder> that is awesome
[22:39:51] <XXCoder> its simple 2 domension slices
[22:39:56] <XXCoder> yet awesome :D
[22:40:27] <XXCoder> https://cults3d.com I like that idea
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[23:25:51] <CaptHindsight> in aluminum?
[23:26:55] <CaptHindsight> they should make kids toys like that
[23:27:08] <CaptHindsight> werdslearnin
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[23:44:39] <XXCoder> alum not easy to make those in
[23:44:46] <XXCoder> wood maybe
[23:44:52] <XXCoder> 3d printer its much simpler
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