#linuxcnc | Logs for 2018-07-04

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[00:19:53] <tjb1> got it now to only a 3-4 microsecond difference between LCD on and off
[00:20:10] <tjb1> guess I was printing the output status of height control too often
[00:20:29] <tjb1> have now changed it to only print if it's different than it was
[00:26:19] <tjb1> AVG 6.34 with no LCD printing, AVG 7.95 with LCD printing...no need for bypass now
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[01:06:45] <fragalot> Hey
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[01:28:37] <IchGucksLive> hi all
[01:28:45] <IchGucksLive> and happy 4th of juli
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[01:48:53] <IchGucksLive> gloops, good morning
[01:48:59] <IchGucksLive> gloops, they did it
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[01:55:56] <gloops> hi Ichs - yes eventually
[01:56:07] <gloops> a win is a win i suppose
[01:56:48] <IchGucksLive> never won a shotout before in wM
[01:56:55] <gloops> only sweden and russia/croatia to beat now
[01:57:02] <IchGucksLive> gloops, querry
[01:57:08] <gloops> no i cant remember us winning on penalties
[01:57:23] <gloops> yes?
[01:57:28] <miss0r> mornin'
[01:58:09] <gloops> hi miss0r
[01:59:50] <miss0r> hehe. I just saw something amusing :D You know the free AVG antivirus, right? I just updated it on this machine, and it did the mandatory reboot now to complete the update or postprone x time
[02:00:23] <miss0r> 10 mins, 10 hours, next day, next week, next century
[02:00:29] <miss0r> They know what it is about
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[02:02:31] <gloops> so long as you let your grandson have the password heh
[02:03:11] <miss0r> I think its a clever way of saying 'don't remind me'
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[03:01:44] <Deejay> moin
[03:02:21] <Loetmichel> harhar... just noticed when smoking at the company backdoor: the big hinges i printed a year ago as a test seem to have fared not THAT well outside... wasnt the brightest idea to make them in black PLA when its in the bright sun outside... -> http://www.cyrom.org
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[03:29:35] <miss0r> I had a new shop door made by a local carpenter who was retired at the time. Sadly he has passed away now. This is 4 years ago, and signs that the craftmansship was not very good are starting to show very clearly now.
[03:29:58] <miss0r> i.e. when the weather has been try for a long time, the door will not latch when you close it, because it shrinks too much
[03:30:22] <miss0r> also, it is warping, making it nessesary to kick the door, while turning the key to lock/unlock it
[03:31:02] <miss0r> i.e, now that he is dead, I don't feel bad replacing it. So; should I design and build one myself or just go buy one of those medium security steel doors?
[03:35:11] <Loetmichel> a selfbuilt wooden door is a "i made THAT right" moment every day you walk thru... IF you get it right... but a steel door is easier and not that mich more expensive
[03:35:32] <miss0r> Oh, I'm absolutly going to build a steel one.
[03:35:53] <miss0r> IF I build one, its going to be steel, that is
[03:37:42] <miss0r> I'm desprately trying to locate a photo of the one I build for my mancave :)
[03:42:15] <miss0r> sadly it seems I have lost the photos
[03:42:32] <miss0r> I can get a pretty good door made professionally for around 1000eur
[03:42:52] <miss0r> it would quickly cost me that much in materials, should I decide to make it my self.
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[04:35:21] <RyanS> I have one shiny ball https://drive.google.com
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[05:08:57] <RyanS> the stepper motor voltage formula is 32* square root of inductance. I wonder why 32
[05:10:52] <XXCoder> 32 is a 2 bit power
[05:13:53] <gloops> im actually still tidying the garage from when i built my router months ago lol
[05:14:05] <RyanS> but how is related to steppers? something to do with the number of windings?
[05:14:18] <XXCoder> honestly dunno just was making funny
[05:14:28] <gloops> finally got to putting everything back on shelves and in trays, didnt remember having so many drill bits
[05:14:50] <XXCoder> cleaning shop is great way to shop and get tools for free
[05:15:25] <gloops> i was in such a rush to get it done i never put anything away, stuff scattered everywhere
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[05:16:13] <gloops> 2 coils on the 4 wire stepper RyanS
[05:16:21] <gloops> 4 coils on 8 wire
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[05:17:50] <Loetmichel> gloops: not really. still 2 coils, just with a center "tap" where they can be disconnected
[05:17:59] <Loetmichel> so magnetically its still 2 coils
[05:18:14] <RyanS> so does that relate to the square root in the voltage formula?
[05:18:48] <gloops> i dont know
[05:19:00] <gloops> i know 4 wire are a lot easier to wire up
[05:20:09] <gloops> also less cable to carry - which is a factor, youre gonna have a ball of cable like a bowl of spaghetti with 8 wire
[05:20:27] <rmu> RyanS: I'm not sure either where that 32 comes from, but sqrt(L) is proportional to number of windings
[05:20:34] <Loetmichel> you dont normally put all 8 wires to the controllers
[05:21:01] <Loetmichel> you can connect them to your liking at the motor and then go with 4 wires to the stepper driver
[05:21:02] <gloops> no youre right Loetmichel
[05:21:12] <RyanS> I was worried about that but the motor I'm getting has a wiring diagram
[05:22:06] <gloops> you find the 2 pairs of coils, then the pair to each coil
[05:22:20] <Loetmichel> usually "both halves of a coil in parallel" for speed and "both halves of a coil in series" for high torque at low current and low speeds
[05:22:56] <RyanS> I'm going to 3d print a terminal housing and screw it on the stepper and have a cable gland
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[05:24:11] <rmu> the 32 probably comes from analysis of losses in the motor and finding some kind of optimum
[05:24:22] <holzjunkie1> hello
[05:24:45] <rmu> IME it works reasonably well, but i didn't really use higher voltages
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[05:26:35] <rmu> the gecko faq has this to say:
[05:26:42] <miss0r> RyanS: That looks like some nice turning. good job
[05:27:05] <rmu> overdrive ration [...] is the ration between the power supply voltage and the motor’s rated voltage. An empirically derived maximum is 25:1, meaning the power supply voltage should never exceed 25 times the motor’s rated voltage or 32 times the square root of motor inductance.
[05:27:54] <RyanS> my moror works out to 55 which is annoying because driver goes 50v and the next size driver 80v
[05:27:58] <rmu> --> empirically derived, probably only applies to the "usual" hybrid stepper motors and not other types
[05:28:27] <rmu> RyanS: will work fine with 48V or 55V... this formula only gives a maximum you shouldn't exceed
[05:28:31] <RyanS> oh ok 55 is the never exceed value
[05:28:37] <rmu> er... meant 50 instead 55
[05:28:56] <rmu> 60V would probably also be OK, but 80 would be excessive
[05:29:15] <gloops> get the 80v drivers
[05:29:20] <gloops> youll want them anyway
[05:29:38] <RyanS> will a 50V driver overload a 50V psu?
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[05:29:56] <rmu> 80V drivers also don't mean you have to use 80V, usually they work with supply from anywhere between 18V - 80V or something like that
[05:30:06] <gloops> no, but you have to consider the amps for the psu
[05:30:26] <rmu> voltage rating of driver means never exceed supply voltage
[05:30:31] <gloops> get 60v+ psus, and 80v drivers
[05:30:57] <gloops> you cant put more than 50v through a 50v driver - it will trip
[05:31:11] <gloops> (or most seem to red light at the rating anyway)
[05:31:13] <RyanS> I'm using 4Nm, 4.2A nema 24 higher RPM than nema 32
[05:31:17] <rmu> release the magic smoke ;)
[05:31:39] <gloops> 4nm you want 60v at least
[05:32:08] <RyanS> motor can only handle 55v
[05:32:23] <gloops> it will take more
[05:33:14] <RyanS> it's 3mH inductance though
[05:33:41] <gloops> well, best approach is to follow the makers guidelines
[05:33:55] <gloops> a lot of people are putting 80v into nema 23s
[05:34:16] <gloops> its the small drivers that wont take more than 50v
[05:34:48] <rmu> RyanS: higher voltage means higher power-output of motor (potentially), but with diminishing returns and at cost of higher motor heating
[05:35:03] <rmu> so 32*sqrt(inductance) seems to be kind of a sweet spot
[05:35:09] <rmu> but thats not a hard limit
[05:35:25] <gloops> its debateable whether significantly more heat is produced
[05:35:25] <rmu> hard limit would be isolation breakdown of your motor windings
[05:36:12] <rmu> point is: the difference between 50V and 60V i will not matter that much
[05:36:44] <gloops> the driver chops the current, it isnt a straight ohms law calculation
[05:37:18] <gloops> youll see reports on facebook - someone complaining their machine is slow - they up the V - new machine, same motors
[05:37:38] <gloops> obviously im not an electrician so i cant advise on these things heh
[05:39:04] <gloops> but, supposing you did feel you needed to up the volts, and you bought 50v drivers and psus - you cant
[05:39:21] <gloops> you then have to buy new psus and drivers
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[05:39:59] <gloops> whereas if you buy 80v drivers and psus - you CAN run it at the makers 50v reccomendation from the start
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[05:41:12] <RyanS> hmm stepper online has DM556T and DM860I (80v).. no idea of the difference between T and I. DM860T was recommended but it's 36v-110v
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[05:41:59] <gloops> ive not found any difference between dm542a dm542 dm542t etc
[05:43:05] <gloops> tbh i found no difference between those and tb6600 - apart from the fact that when i was having problems the tb6600s died rather more easily
[05:44:29] <RyanS> tb6600 seems a bit long in the tooth
[05:44:44] <gloops> they work ok..
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[05:45:51] <RyanS> speaking of which this has the tb6600 but it's just an indexer https://drive.google.com
[05:47:07] <RyanS> speaking of which, dust covers are the only useful thing for a 3d printer
[05:48:27] <RyanS> I don't want plastic crap on my display shelf they're for the metalwork projects
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[05:50:07] <gloops> https://www.ebay.co.uk
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[05:53:38] <RyanS> makes sense to have flexibility with the drivers but you would still need to upgrade the PSU
[05:54:53] <gloops> well 50v psu will only give 50v
[05:55:28] <RyanS> I think I'll use a linear psu. less complex and probably more reliable than a cheap SMPS
[05:55:29] <gloops> tbh i think youll probably get the 5m/min from 50v setup
[05:56:23] <gloops> but if you dont you end up like me - the cheap drivers werent cheap at all, because this is the 3rd lot ill be buying
[06:05:06] <RyanS> I don't get the 30:1 gearbox and no microstepping idea. I thought modern drivers compensate for torque loss with microstepping
[06:07:19] <jthornton> morning
[06:07:52] <gloops> the gearbox will introduce backlash
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[06:14:29] <RyanS> you have to use precision gearbox they can go to umm 3 arc minutes backlash
[06:14:41] <RyanS> expensive
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[06:20:34] <jthornton> at Automation Direct they start at $400 for a precision gearbox
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[06:33:09] <miss0r> When designing my new door here, I've come up with an idea. For adding an anti drill layer, would it make sense to use some kevlar fabric? I'm thinking that would get any drill attempts stuck in its tracks. (yes I am bat shit crazy, yes I have a security door fetish yes, yes & yes)
[06:42:27] <RyanS> I knew it, the weather and 24hr darkness makes Scandinavians a bit bonkers
[07:06:10] <gloops> if theyre that determined theyre probably going to get in anyway
[07:07:23] <gloops> tool thieves usually carry simple stuff, bolt crops maybe, a bar
[07:08:26] <RyanS> C4
[07:11:13] <gloops> the bikes thieves here often look for ads for bikes for sale, and go and have a viewing - case the joint out for breaking in, then return at night
[07:11:25] <gloops> i suppose that could be done with tools/machines
[07:11:38] <gloops> call in to price a job up - have a good look round
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[07:15:52] <RyanS> is there any issue using steppers without a reduction? 55v gives me 648 RPM and 8m/min with 25mm pinion... exactly where I want the max speed
[07:19:30] <gloops> i dont think so, better if you can avoid pulleys and stuff
[07:19:52] <gloops> youll be lucky to get 648rpm though
[07:20:36] <RyanS> the stepper calculator has that for 55V
[07:20:50] <gloops> mine drop off around 200rpm i think
[07:21:17] <RyanS> but I could use a bigger pinion
[07:22:05] <RyanS> nema 34 in the same calculator is 350rpm
[07:23:07] <gloops> is that considering the load and acceleration?
[07:23:51] <RyanS> no it's just the top speed
[07:24:24] <RyanS> point is I don't think I want a reduction
[07:24:51] <gloops> i get 5m/min on the y with 3-1 gearing, so motor is doing 333 rpm
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[07:25:26] <gloops> thats safe for cutting with a router - would do more if it didnt have to cut
[07:25:34] <gloops> quite a bit more id guess
[07:25:45] <RyanS> I must be calculating it wrong
[07:26:11] <gloops> its probably right - top speed with no load
[07:26:29] <RyanS> this just converts RPM to linear
[07:27:08] <gloops> then acceleration - it has to be reasonable, otherwise youll never reach the top speed in the distance
[07:27:18] <gloops> might only be moving 40mm
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[07:28:14] <RyanS> hmm and more torque is more speed
[07:28:31] <RyanS> umm
[07:28:44] <RyanS> no acceleration
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[07:31:21] <gloops> i have to move over 100lbs, from standing to top speed very quickly, with enough force to push a cutter through wood, surprising what those little steppers can do
[07:31:43] <gloops> you can have much lighter gantry etc, no cutting force, should get a lot more speed
[07:33:55] <RyanS> and less torque presumably
[07:35:06] <gloops> well, put the torque into gearing
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[07:39:57] <RyanS> gear it up?
[08:01:47] <gloops> well you dont need torque for cutting so may as well use it for speed?
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[08:04:26] <rmu> RyanS what are you trying to build?
[08:04:53] <RyanS> plasma
[08:05:04] <rmu> re "linear" power supply: if you go the no-SMPS route, transformer + rectifier + filter caps is sufficient, no need to regulate voltage for steppers
[08:05:53] <RyanS> max speed I want is 7900mm/min
[08:06:40] <rmu> if it helps: i run a 7A Nema34 stepper @ 80V with about 1000RPM topspeed, this moves a print-head with about 1m/s topspeed
[08:08:05] <RyanS> i'm thinking nema 24, 4Nm @ 60V
[08:08:06] <rmu> so it has some torque left at that speed, although not much
[08:08:35] <rmu> holding torque according to datasheet is 9Nm of this stepper, didn't measure
[08:09:04] <rmu> holding torque of this stepper according to datasheet is 9Nm is more proper engrisch
[08:10:16] <RyanS> so I could easily get 8m/m from the nema 24s?
[08:14:31] <rmu> RyanS: it should be possible, but no guarantees ;)
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[08:27:45] <IchGucksLive> hi all
[08:27:54] <RyanS> hi
[08:28:00] <XXCoder> hey
[08:28:08] <IchGucksLive> gloops, the mashine runs at 6m/min
[08:28:21] <IchGucksLive> RyanS, hi https://youtu.be
[08:28:47] <IchGucksLive> gloops, it is realy belive me the very first movements no tuning at all
[08:28:52] <IchGucksLive> gloops, https://youtu.be
[08:29:59] <IchGucksLive> RyanS, make yiour own gearing
[08:31:27] <IchGucksLive> xc happy 4th
[08:31:37] <IchGucksLive> XXCoder, ;-)
[08:31:46] <RyanS> you mentioned DM860T if I want more flexibility. but that's max 110V. how about DM860I, max 80v. and the 4Nm stepper can use 55V
[08:32:28] <IchGucksLive> RyanS, at your system almost everything meets your need
[08:33:09] <IchGucksLive> RyanS, it is always the SPEED vs Torque vs precision vs Cost
[08:33:46] <RyanS> even 7900 mm/min. that's the fastest I ever need to go
[08:34:06] <IchGucksLive> yes then calculate on this
[08:34:15] <IchGucksLive> get the precision to 0,1mm
[08:34:22] <IchGucksLive> as you are on plasma
[08:34:31] <IchGucksLive> so get the torque higher
[08:34:44] <IchGucksLive> but keep the costs in view
[08:34:56] <IchGucksLive> WHAT is BEST
[08:35:09] <IchGucksLive> Closed loop 12Nm
[08:35:28] <IchGucksLive> what is need TB6600 2Nm at 15:1
[08:35:36] <IchGucksLive> all within
[08:36:05] <IchGucksLive> RyanS, i well know your problem as i got it almost every week
[08:36:43] <IchGucksLive> RyanS, on building 100+ mashines ((more calculating and Constructing then actuly mounting HERE ))
[08:37:32] <IchGucksLive> RyanS, thew Mechanics is the KEY to your best setup
[08:37:39] <IchGucksLive> so what are you on
[08:37:52] <IchGucksLive> TIMINBELT over max lewngth
[08:38:00] <IchGucksLive> SBR and 1605
[08:38:13] <IchGucksLive> Rack pulley
[08:38:53] <IchGucksLive> pinion
[08:39:03] <RyanS> tb6600 2Nm 15:1 sounds slow but I have an international relations degree because maths isn't my thing. so I don't know
[08:39:41] <IchGucksLive> RyanS, ALL REALY ALL Drivers can go 50Khz
[08:39:55] <IchGucksLive> so it is your mass that counts
[08:40:13] <IchGucksLive> you need less then 30khz
[08:40:28] <IchGucksLive> the DRIVER is not your problem
[08:40:56] <IchGucksLive> if you are willing to pay the M860 I then Do it
[08:41:16] <IchGucksLive> is is almost the best below HS86 you can buy
[08:41:51] <RyanS> do I even need a reduction on the stepper? it would be easier to go direct. or at least 3:1 belt reduction is cheaper and no backlash
[08:42:24] <IchGucksLive> RyanS, did you calculate at 8Nm HSS86
[08:44:22] <IchGucksLive> RyanS, https://www.ebay.com.au
[08:44:42] <RyanS> I used 4Nm but my calculations was like 1m/min with 5:1 so I don't think I calculated it correctly
[08:46:05] <IchGucksLive> Microstepping under EMI is quite a big risk
[08:47:04] <IchGucksLive> RyanS, what is your mashine now RAIL and pich setup
[08:47:26] <IchGucksLive> YOU said 2500mm as i remember in X
[08:48:17] <IchGucksLive> RyanS, there is one in Argentina that run the hypertherm on a bicicle chain
[08:48:42] <IchGucksLive> return precicion below 0,5
[08:49:17] <IchGucksLive> all on tb6560 100USD electronics including stepeprs
[08:50:57] <RyanS> i used v = r x rad/s with about 600rpm motor ,25mm pinion / 15 ratio is 0.5 m/min. I must be missing some calculations
[08:51:26] <IchGucksLive> RyanS, this you can direct mount to the system nothing needed https://www.ebay.com.au
[08:51:33] <IchGucksLive> BUT it is the COST
[08:52:35] <IchGucksLive> it will run 2000Steps/rev AT FULL 8Nm
[08:53:07] <IchGucksLive> so at Rack Pinion T10 Z12 its 120mm/2000Steps its 0,06mm/step
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[08:54:49] <IchGucksLive> so the stepper can go 3000rev/min
[08:55:08] <IchGucksLive> calculation on 2000RPM max
[08:56:54] <RyanS> 3mH, 4.2A at 55v is 640 RPM , could I get faster from it.? I would have to use nema23 for those gearboxes
[08:57:23] <RyanS> so whatever speed they are
[08:58:26] <IchGucksLive> WHY not spending the money of the gearbox to the CLOSED loop
[08:58:38] <IchGucksLive> https://www.ebay.com.au
[08:58:52] <IchGucksLive> then you need nothing
[08:59:04] <IchGucksLive> they make 3000rpm top speed
[08:59:19] <IchGucksLive> and they wont loose any step and torque
[08:59:24] <IchGucksLive> they dont have emi
[09:00:29] <IchGucksLive> and availablein Australia
[09:01:27] <RyanS> 86Hse is only $200,more for me, and save cost on gearboxes. BUT can the standard linuxCNC setup use closed loop? especially considering I haven't built a cnc before
[09:02:08] <IchGucksLive> they are the same as every other Driver
[09:02:16] <IchGucksLive> in case of wirering
[09:03:20] <RyanS> i definitely don't know how to program, write post processor so it would have to be Jthorntans post and software setup
[09:05:29] <RyanS> does linuxCNC see the difference between open and closed loop? because only Pulse +/-, dir, enable is connected to the 7i76e
[09:05:48] <RyanS> i guess not?
[09:06:52] <IchGucksLive> the driver does do this
[09:07:10] <IchGucksLive> RyanS, its a closed loop stepepr system not a SERVO
[09:07:58] <IchGucksLive> there are only the EN CW Pul pins
[09:08:09] <IchGucksLive> nothing else to the 7i76
[09:08:25] <RyanS> ok so linuxCNC effectively believes it's just am open loop stepper?
[09:08:35] <IchGucksLive> yes
[09:08:54] <IchGucksLive> but it can do 200k steps per second easy
[09:09:25] <IchGucksLive> you do not need somthing extra in mechanics at 8Nm
[09:10:03] <IchGucksLive> simply caculate your Rack pinion at around 120mm/rev lenth
[09:10:22] <IchGucksLive> depending on module Rack
[09:11:07] <tiwake> when I built the controller for my hardinge CHNC, will I need an oscilloscope?
[09:11:15] <tiwake> s/built/build
[09:12:03] <IchGucksLive> RyanS, Diameter = Module*teeth
[09:12:31] <RyanS> actually the price of that with savings in gearboxes is only $ 100 more, think I will go with the closed loop
[09:13:11] <IchGucksLive> up to you as always
[09:13:21] <IchGucksLive> 70V psu
[09:13:45] <IchGucksLive> one per stepper
[09:13:58] <IchGucksLive> boosts up the Cabinett
[09:14:31] <IchGucksLive> RyanS, http://heimwerkermarkt-tretter.de
[09:14:38] <RyanS> anyway thanks for the advice I must head to bed
[09:14:56] <IchGucksLive> NP to spend your money
[09:15:07] <tiwake> heh
[09:15:52] <IchGucksLive> tiwake, mine https://www.youtube.com
[09:16:06] <IchGucksLive> tiwake, 20USD
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[09:21:15] <IchGucksLive> im off till later
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[09:22:43] <tiwake> using a voltmeter to read the voltage instead of the oscilloscope is rather chinky
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[09:45:20] <gloops> who was looking for reamers https://www.facebook.com
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[10:05:20] <tjb1> https://www.youtube.com
[10:19:16] <tjb1> https://www.youtube.com
[10:19:43] <tjb1> Cool stuff with a gopro in the machine there
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[11:34:59] <hazzy-lab> Happy independence day to all those here in the US!
[11:51:54] <gloops> also known as traitors day, elsewhere
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[11:52:48] <Rab> haha
[11:58:10] <rmu> ha! announcing reunion with the uk would be a bold move for trump! a REALLY unexpected one!
[11:58:47] <rmu> make britain great again ;)
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[12:02:46] <Rab> The way things have gone over the past few decades, I think there's a lot of precedent for declaring the UK our deadliest enemy on account of all the nuclear weapons we have stashed there.
[12:03:59] <roycroft> um, sorry, you're totally wrong about that
[12:04:06] <roycroft> canada are our deadliest enemy now
[12:04:30] <roycroft> damn poutine eaters
[12:06:31] <enleth> anyone here ever tried running a permanent magnet 3-phase AC servo off of a regular VFD?
[12:08:46] <enleth> supposedly a vector VFD should be capable of driving a servo, but I've found contradictory information on how well it works
[12:20:10] <Tom_L> no but i wanted to try if it would work
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[12:29:17] <fragalot> hi
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[12:55:42] <rmu> enleth: a synchronous machine should in principle work on a VFD, but spinning it up might be a challenge
[12:56:23] <miss0r> Goodevening
[12:58:20] <miss0r> fragalot: I ordered three servos from thailand, and had them ship it express. I'm thinking I should be able to combine the three to one working. :]
[13:01:11] <enleth> rmu: the most technical-sounding opinions on the subject I found claimed that there's a risk of synchronization loss upon sudden load increase and mentioned that vector VFDs might be able to deal with that, but did not elaborate
[13:02:10] <enleth> someone somewhere noted that it requires tuning the VFD parameters in a way that would be very wrong and weird for an induction motor
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[13:08:55] <IchGucksLive> hi all
[13:09:04] <IchGucksLive> there is thunder around
[13:09:07] <IchGucksLive> hail today
[13:09:17] <IchGucksLive> gloops, online
[13:10:10] <IchGucksLive> enleth, there are special VFD for this types of motors
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[13:13:05] <miss0r> IchGucksLive: Send some of that weather my way!
[13:13:28] <miss0r> if you leave a cracker out over night here, it will still be crunchy in the morning
[13:13:29] <IchGucksLive> we also need water
[13:13:54] <miss0r> yeah. Everything around here is so dry at the moment
[13:16:07] <rmu> enleth: probably depends on the kind of VFD you are using. vector control of asynch motor probably will not work for synchronous motor.
[13:19:31] <enleth> rmu: so perhaps it might just be that some vector VFDs have so wide tuning ranges and so little arbitrary constraints on the parameters that it is possible to force them to drive a synchronous motor correctly
[13:19:42] <enleth> but good luck trying
[13:21:56] <rmu> enleth: you are talking about sensorless VFD, right?
[13:22:14] <enleth> yes
[13:22:21] <IchGucksLive> im off it is getting BAD now
[13:22:46] <enleth> rmu: without an encoder/resoslver connected, sensing the motor position by back-EMF only
[13:23:01] <enleth> or whatever black magic they use to do that
[13:23:28] <rmu> that depends on speed, back-EMF is useless at standstill, i.e. in brake-mode
[13:23:38] <rmu> not useless, just not there
[13:23:43] <IchGucksLive> here is todays work e mashine that dident move 150km of way to get to it and 1hr to moving
[13:23:48] <IchGucksLive> https://www.youtube.com
[13:24:01] <IchGucksLive> 3600mm/min untuned
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[13:24:32] <enleth> rmu: and induction motors themselves are pretty useless at standstill too, so it's not a problem when you use a regular VFD as intended
[13:24:56] <rmu> enleth: not necessarily, even AC motors can be controlled at/near standstill
[13:25:47] <rmu> but: why would you want to do that? do you have a spare BLDC you want to use as a spindle motor?
[13:26:17] <rmu> expensive motor on cheap drive somehow doesn't make sense ;)
[13:26:56] <enleth> a friend of mine acquired a sizeable bunch of Allen-Bradley 3-phase permanent magnet servos and we're wondering how to drive them
[13:27:06] <enleth> and there's more where that came from
[13:27:19] <enleth> they're in 900W-4.5kW power range
[13:27:23] <rmu> get a bunch of STMBLs
[13:27:28] <enleth> 460Vrms
[13:27:55] <enleth> isn't STMBL pretty limited in the output voltage range?
[13:27:57] <rmu> 460 RMS seems odd
[13:28:24] <rmu> they are working on a 600V version
[13:28:32] <enleth> oh, that's better
[13:28:55] <enleth> I remember checking some time ago and finding out it's something like 100V max with then current design
[13:30:21] <Tom_L> ya gotta start somewhere..
[13:30:49] <enleth> 600V could handle the Siemens servos in my KUKA arm
[13:30:50] <rmu> stmbl is 325V at the moment
[13:31:15] <Tom_L> is that based on imput voltage?
[13:31:21] <Tom_L> or does it step the input up
[13:32:49] <rmu> that amounts to about 250V or so
[13:33:02] <rmu> that is rectified and filtered 230V AC
[13:33:09] <rmu> no step up
[13:34:25] <rmu> in theory you could reach 2/sqrt(3) times dc link voltage IIRC
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[13:56:43] <gloops> hottest weekend this year forecast
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[13:57:55] <gloops> this is getting beyond a joke
[14:06:33] <gloops> fragalot - Belgium v Brazil on friday - i think you can win
[14:07:54] <enleth> rmu: https://i.imgur.com
[14:09:52] <fragalot> gloops: Obviously. :-)
[14:11:13] <gloops> i hope Belgium do get to the final, France will be very difficult though
[14:29:55] <CaptHindsight> what's the good news today?
[14:31:50] <gloops> Mr Frisky was safely rescued from the cherry tree
[14:35:55] <fragalot> CaptHindsight: Good news is that it stormed heavily yesterday
[14:36:21] <fragalot> CaptHindsight: bad news is that it didn't bring any water to the region :P... and delayed my flight.
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[14:53:22] <CaptHindsight> fragalot: flight in or out?
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[14:54:02] <CaptHindsight> can't you guys make some deal with that area with all the windmills and tulips?
[14:54:13] <CaptHindsight> they have lots of water, too much
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[15:01:35] <gloops> thats holland
[15:03:27] <CaptHindsight> close enough to have a bucket brigade
[15:03:31] <gloops> no rain in the forecast for the next month here, and getting hotter
[15:03:53] <CaptHindsight> and short of beer?
[15:03:56] <fragalot> CaptHindsight: flight in.
[15:04:43] <fragalot> CaptHindsight: actually,.. coca cola and similar are/were struggling with a CO2 shortage
[15:10:05] <gloops> i dont want any beer anyway
[15:11:08] <fragalot> as if you could get beer in the UK :P
[15:11:19] * fragalot walks off with a smug look
[15:12:09] <gloops> i dont think its particularly clever to get blind drunk, id rather stay in control
[15:12:32] <fragalot> of course
[15:12:38] <fragalot> good beer is made to be enjoyed, not to get pissed
[15:16:11] <gloops> i cant really think of any great Belgian beers fragalot
[15:17:24] <rmu> gulden draak?
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[15:18:01] <CaptHindsight> probably why they use the term "pissed" since that is what their beer tastes like in the UK :P
[15:18:31] <gloops> 'pissed' comes from something else heh
[15:18:55] <gloops> our beer although largely watered down now for exports, is still the best
[15:19:38] <fragalot> rmu: gulden draak does not rank very high on my list
[15:20:33] <gloops> a lot of things to do with 'piss' come from the tanning trade, when urine was used for tanning
[15:20:34] <fragalot> gloops: no offence but your beer tastes like someone took the drip tray from the tap, rinsed it, and left that mixture out in the sun before serving it as "beer"
[15:20:50] <gloops> poor people used to sell their urine - for a very small amount
[15:21:09] <gloops> fragalot belgian tastes like yeast
[15:21:17] <fragalot> Aye - quite interesting to see the underground tanneries in the nottingham caves
[15:21:26] <fragalot> gloops: That depends entirely on the beer
[15:21:32] <fragalot> we've got great ones, and we've got awful ones
[15:21:58] <gloops> it smells and tastes a bit like un-baked bread
[15:21:59] <fragalot> I've tried a small microbrewery beer the other day called "Kerel" who's slogan was "untouched by monks".. and you could tell. worst beer ever. :P
[15:22:09] <fragalot> except their IPA was spot on.. which is aweful imho.
[15:23:26] <gloops> a lot used to turn up when people were doing the 'beer run' to Belgium, avoiding UK duty etc
[15:23:35] <gloops> usually crates of small bottles
[15:24:57] <gloops> https://www.independent.co.uk
[15:25:33] <gloops> 'more to this land than chocolate and waffles' lol!
[15:26:14] <fragalot> hehe
[15:27:02] <gloops> Duvel Tripel Hop Citra, 9.5%: £4 for 330ml, Beer Hawk
[15:27:28] <fragalot> tried that one. not my thing
[15:27:53] <fragalot> also - you get nearly half that back when you return the bottle
[15:32:01] <CaptHindsight> untouched by those with taste
[15:33:00] <CaptHindsight> fragalot: are they referring to the beer or their children?
[15:33:38] <fragalot> CaptHindsight: I guess we'll never know.
[15:35:35] <CaptHindsight> I've been anti-hop lately
[15:35:45] <fragalot> the airline?
[15:35:49] <CaptHindsight> pretty much just been drinking sours
[15:36:08] <CaptHindsight> flight hops are OK, if they aren't too long
[15:36:50] <CaptHindsight> many layovers should be longer though
[15:37:11] <fragalot> especially international
[15:37:17] <CaptHindsight> yeah
[15:37:21] <fragalot> been to indianapolis a few times from chicago
[15:37:29] <fragalot> and nearly every time i've missed the layover
[15:37:53] <CaptHindsight> Cathay Pacific has 13 hour layovers in Hong Kong
[15:38:07] <fragalot> because several large planes land at the same time, and there is a singular border control officer
[15:38:20] <CaptHindsight> too short to do much and too long to stay up though after a 13 hour flight
[15:38:40] <fragalot> yeah
[15:38:51] <CaptHindsight> it's a 3 hour drive not during rush hour
[15:39:00] <rmu> fragalot: gulden draak is the only belgian beer i can remember
[15:39:02] <CaptHindsight> Chicago to Indi
[15:39:12] <fragalot> yeah last few times I've just taken a rental car
[15:39:30] <CaptHindsight> what's in Indi? not much there
[15:39:38] <fragalot> which has resulted in my seat being gone in chicago when flying back because I was a no-show for the indi flight
[15:39:42] <CaptHindsight> far too southern for me :p
[15:39:46] <fragalot> one of our facilities
[15:40:14] <CaptHindsight> yeah, miss the first leg and you lose the whole trip
[15:40:25] <fragalot> well I got upgraded to business first
[15:40:30] <CaptHindsight> nice
[15:40:33] <fragalot> so all in all, not too bad :D
[15:40:42] <fragalot> (it really does make a huge difference in terms of jetlag)
[15:40:43] <CaptHindsight> ah have to try that
[15:40:57] <CaptHindsight> lag doesn't really bother me
[15:41:02] <fragalot> but it's kinda annoying how they keep bugging you if you really are sure that you don't want more champagne
[15:41:24] <CaptHindsight> I'm usually so tired when I travel it doesn't matter
[15:41:31] <fragalot> lol
[15:41:50] <fragalot> going TO the US is alright.. tiring, but alright
[15:41:56] <fragalot> going back home is horrendous
[15:42:13] <fragalot> 2/3 times i'm so tired I forget my bags on the train
[15:42:26] <CaptHindsight> ever get them back?
[15:42:37] <fragalot> yeah every time. helps to know the right people
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[15:44:05] <CaptHindsight> what annoys me more is the trip through xray and detectors when still in transit
[15:44:21] <fragalot> you mean the theatre? :P
[15:44:22] <CaptHindsight> I went though the joke when my trip started
[15:44:34] <fragalot> what I love
[15:44:40] <CaptHindsight> now they are bugging me about liquids from duty free
[15:44:45] <fragalot> is how they take away your liquids, because they might be potentially dangerous (to their profit)
[15:44:54] <fragalot> so they put it in a larger bin with a lot more potentially dangerous liquids
[15:45:03] <CaptHindsight> makes sense :)
[15:45:07] <fragalot> :D
[15:45:33] <fragalot> when there was a terrorist bombing in brussels, they decided it was safer to have more checkpoints
[15:45:42] <CaptHindsight> energy bars sets off alarms
[15:45:45] <fragalot> so the queue just moved elsewhere
[15:46:39] <CaptHindsight> my son had a playstation, 15" LCD and controller built it to a carry on....
[15:47:02] <CaptHindsight> but they went nuts over the 2 energy bars in the pocket of the bag
[15:47:42] <fragalot> hehe.
[15:47:55] <CaptHindsight> leaving China they tend to do a spot check right before boarding...
[15:48:03] <XXCoder> fragalot: 2 terrorists with big containers of liquid
[15:48:12] <XXCoder> let tsa do work for them
[15:48:13] <fragalot> last I was in the USa they had signs everywhere saying "GOOD NEWS! you don't have to take off your shoes anymore!"
[15:48:16] <XXCoder> binary bomb
[15:48:21] <fragalot> first question they asked me "sir can you take off your shoes"
[15:48:24] <CaptHindsight> sometimes I have several laptop, tablet, LCD, etc devices in my bag
[15:48:30] <XXCoder> lol
[15:48:38] <CaptHindsight> the look on their faces when you pull out one after another
[15:48:43] <fragalot> xD
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[15:49:04] <fragalot> someone I know made the mistake of using his job jargon and honesty when asked what was in his bag
[15:49:07] <fragalot> "a spray gun"
[15:49:23] <CaptHindsight> heh
[15:49:36] <fragalot> turns out that word is a trigger to get tackled, lol
[15:49:46] <tiwake> don't fly, drive
[15:49:56] <XXCoder> tiwake: yeah drive for a week
[15:50:26] <CaptHindsight> I once got my flight wrong coming back from New York, I had a complete mini Linuxcnc system in my bag with 2 8" positioners and motors
[15:51:02] <tiwake> also 1/3 of my bathroom is now rather clean
[15:51:09] <CaptHindsight> three guys got in from of me right before the TSA checkpoint from Syria...
[15:51:20] <CaptHindsight> from/front
[15:51:50] <CaptHindsight> I thought I'd have to skip the flight or lose the parts..
[15:51:54] <fragalot> so the first time i went to the usa, I wound up in the wrong terminal
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[15:52:06] <fragalot> went to the other terminal via the "unsecure" zone, as there's no other way
[15:52:19] <fragalot> told the security there "hi I was in the wrong terminal, they already checked me and i'm late for my flight"
[15:52:23] <fragalot> so they just let me skip it
[15:52:27] <fragalot> >.>
[15:52:30] <CaptHindsight> wow
[15:52:41] <XXCoder> youre white right?
[15:52:49] <fragalot> XXCoder: how'd you guess?
[15:52:54] <tiwake> if it aint white it aint right
[15:53:00] <CaptHindsight> if my layovers are long enough I'll go out through customs into the main terminals
[15:53:02] <XXCoder> whiteness is universal "it's all okay" card
[15:53:14] <XXCoder> in usa anyway
[15:53:20] <CaptHindsight> then come back in to get my Visa stamp
[15:53:32] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: pretty much
[15:53:39] <gloops> lol
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[15:54:09] <gloops> if anything, the reverse here
[15:54:12] <CaptHindsight> when I left New York the TSA agent scanned my bag and made a hockey comment since the Blackhawks were playing against the Rangers that night..
[15:54:25] <CaptHindsight> I gave him crap about them and he let me through
[15:54:30] <tiwake> heh
[15:55:57] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: when I built the controller for my hardinge CHNC, will I need to get a good oscilloscope?
[15:56:08] <tiwake> s/built/build
[15:56:35] <fragalot> it's never a bad investment to get a decent-ish scope
[15:56:51] <tiwake> this is true
[15:57:00] <tiwake> but wondering if its used for building a controller
[15:57:09] <fragalot> at the very least a DS1054Z
[15:57:20] <fragalot> you can get by without one
[15:57:28] <fragalot> it's just harder when things don't work
[15:58:28] <tiwake> I'm slightly concerned about a power supply and controllers for the two servo motors
[15:58:38] <CaptHindsight> tiwake: by building do you mean connecting Mesa cards and similar to a PC or?
[15:59:27] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: that and something to power the servos... might need to get new servos and encoders
[15:59:33] <tiwake> donno yet..
[15:59:55] <tiwake> chances are the servos are good, maybe
[16:00:09] <tiwake> the controller that the lathe came with is completely missing
[16:00:15] <tiwake> so I have to build everything
[16:00:55] <tiwake> including the user interface, whatever buttons, etc.
[16:01:29] <CaptHindsight> what fragalot said about tools, always handy but not especially necessary
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[16:02:05] <CaptHindsight> but a 5 minute problem can be a several day problem without a scope
[16:03:04] <tiwake> alright
[16:03:53] <CaptHindsight> bbl
[16:03:56] <tiwake> fragalot: isnt there a hack for that one to get it to operate at 100mhz?
[16:04:03] <fragalot> tiwake: Yup
[16:04:26] <fragalot> i've got the 1052 at home for nearly... 7 years I think?
[16:04:37] <fragalot> and it's basic, but works well
[16:05:01] <fragalot> the 1054 is more refined in terms of display
[16:05:43] <tiwake> hmm
[16:06:31] <fragalot> using the 2000 & 4000 series at work.. good units, but way more scope than what you need for troubleshooting
[16:06:48] <fragalot> if all you're ever going to do is troubleshoot, the 1052 would suffice
[16:09:34] <tiwake> what else would I want it for?
[16:09:49] <fragalot> building circuits, if that's your thing
[16:09:55] <tiwake> I guess not
[16:09:57] <tiwake> heh
[16:10:08] <fragalot> in that case the 1052 is enough :-)
[16:10:12] <tiwake> I don't know enough to do such a thing...
[16:10:20] <tiwake> though that might change in the future too
[16:11:17] <fragalot> There are other cheap scopes on the market like Siglent or Rohde & Schwarz that are usable for troubleshooting.. Just make sure that you don't get a portable piece of junk with a bandwidth below 50Mhz
[16:11:49] <tiwake> yeah, I never have liked those
[16:12:07] <tiwake> I think snapon has one such model
[16:12:12] <tiwake> screw that
[16:12:17] <fragalot> :P
[16:12:59] <tiwake> I just want to build machines to make money for me
[16:13:37] <XXCoder> heh such can be very cheap
[16:13:43] <XXCoder> kits like 11 bucks usd?
[16:14:06] <fragalot> depending on how rushed you are, you can just start building, and when you run into a problem where you have fast switching signals you want to check, THEN buy a scope
[16:14:10] <tiwake> kit for what?
[16:14:28] <fragalot> as said previously, it's an optional tool :-)
[16:14:40] <tiwake> fragalot: I'm starting the process of buying a house this month
[16:14:57] <fragalot> so no rush, haha
[16:15:01] <tiwake> there is no rush for anything else
[16:15:37] <XXCoder> oh theres 8 bucks signal generator lol
[16:15:51] <XXCoder> https://de.aliexpress.com
[16:17:01] <XXCoder> 20 khz lol https://www.aliexpress.com
[16:17:03] <XXCoder> cheap
[16:17:10] <fragalot> useless
[16:17:10] <XXCoder> but useless for you I guess
[16:17:17] <fragalot> useless for anything
[16:17:48] <XXCoder> theres 1 mhz one still low
[16:17:48] <fragalot> anything below 20Mhz is garbage, 50Mhz is the bottom end of the spectrum today.
[16:18:31] <tiwake> fragalot: what are digital channels?
[16:18:43] <XXCoder> it being useless really depends on what use its for
[16:18:51] <tiwake> in context of oscilloscopes
[16:18:59] <fragalot> tiwake: on/off signals only
[16:19:29] <XXCoder> pc usb oscilloscope 20 mhz 56 bucks lol
[16:19:37] <fragalot> be aware that most oscilloscopes that have both digital and analog signals in one, do not guarantee that they are 'aligned'
[16:19:52] <XXCoder> whats difference between 20mhz and 48 mhz sampling rate?
[16:19:58] <fragalot> eg; if you hook up the same signal to an analog probe, and a digital probe, the event will not show up at the same timestamp
[16:20:07] <fragalot> XXCoder: about 28Mhz.
[16:21:44] <gloops> strange sky..kind of a red dusty martian sunset..
[16:21:49] <gloops> omens!
[16:27:35] <tiwake> I hope to start on the project early next year
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[16:59:41] <syyl> making delrin parts all day :D
[16:59:41] <syyl> http://gtwr.de
[16:59:53] <syyl> huuuuge pile of chips...
[17:01:03] <Tom_L> what for?
[17:01:07] <gloops> what machines syyl - diy ones?
[17:01:19] <syyl> lathe and isel cnc router ;)
[17:01:33] <syyl> they go in a film developer machine
[17:02:07] <gloops> ahh like developing drums
[17:02:07] <syyl> the film-o-mat
[17:02:09] <XXCoder> dang
[17:03:12] <gloops> there is a strong film photography cult atm
[17:03:31] <syyl> for sure
[17:03:58] <gloops> unfortunately most films were never viable to produce for amateur photographers, they only used the offcuts from the cinema rolls for that
[17:06:56] <gloops> any cash in this job then syyl?
[17:07:04] <syyl> jep
[17:07:20] <syyl> recurring job, and i did a good quote on them
[17:07:30] <gloops> hey thats ok then
[17:07:53] <XXCoder> yeah maybe earn bit less money per part, but overall lot more money
[17:08:13] <Tom_L> how much shrinkage do you get machining delrin?
[17:08:20] <XXCoder> theres few "infinity parts" at work, and they make lots money
[17:08:38] <syyl> not much, i basicaly machine it to nominal dimension
[17:08:41] <syyl> and it doesnt move
[17:08:47] <Tom_L> coolant?
[17:08:57] <XXCoder> so not much internal stresses then
[17:09:16] <syyl> nope, dry - on the lathe with polished carbide inserts, on the router with a very long 4mm ball endmill
[17:09:40] <syyl> i would prefer a larger tool with a bit more stiffness, but the geometry does not allow for that.
[17:10:39] <gloops> worth doing a rough out with large diameter - then finish with small one?
[17:11:04] <syyl> not realy, the heavy roughing is done on the lathe anyway :D
[17:19:58] <Deejay> gn8
[17:20:33] <gloops> well, still practising the modelling here https://ibb.co
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[17:38:00] <gloops> i see those 2 mysterious deaths today in the UK were Novichok again
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[18:32:15] <JT-ftworth> hey
[18:32:25] <infornography> ello
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[18:42:42] <russtuff> should linuxcnc have some sort of audio driver or is that something I have to install manually? i'm trying to listen to music in the shop (not while machining) but get no audio and i can't find a place to mess with audio settings.
[18:44:46] <infornography> imma tell your boss
[18:45:34] <RealUnix28200> Hello
[18:46:29] <gloops> probably need the right driver?
[18:46:36] <gloops> for your sound card
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[18:57:24] <gloops> may help russtuff https://uk.video.search.yahoo.com
[18:57:34] <gloops> no scrub that
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[18:58:11] <gloops> https://www.youtube.com
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[19:25:18] <andypugh> RealUnix28200: You have a question?
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[19:40:53] <grotius> hi please monitor network traffic
[19:41:56] <infornography> Anyone have an experience with parallel port ad on cards? PCI or PCI-e?
[19:42:34] <grotius> I am thinking about that
[19:43:20] <grotius> Specially for FPGA add on chips
[19:43:56] <grotius> We can call the sunix factory in china
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[19:44:57] <JT-Mobile> russtuff, I use the VLC player in linux
[19:47:12] <pcw_home> Yeah all the normal sound drivers are included with the bas OS so sound is normally not an issue
[19:47:22] <pcw_home> s/bas/base/
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[19:50:32] <grotius> Hi, you know me. I am testing kali on different hard drive, first issue was login screen. I solved with user : root
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[20:02:21] <grotius> Network monitoring looks good tonight.
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[20:11:03] <andypugh> OK, so here I am installing Windows XP. Wierd.
[20:11:22] <XXCoder> yay now, thats the experence! ;)
[20:12:10] <andypugh> (Someone on the forum wants to replace an old XP DNC system, I am trying to figure out the data format)
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[20:14:50] <gector> anyone use linuxcnc for engraving circuit boards?
[20:14:51] <XXCoder> oh thats extra fun heh
[20:15:04] <XXCoder> old obsetete systems and data formats
[20:15:07] <XXCoder> gector: sure
[20:15:15] <andypugh> gector: It has certainly been done by many people.
[20:15:17] <XXCoder> not me but others talked about that here
[20:15:23] <gector> I really need some kind of height control
[20:15:30] <gector> so it does a consitant cut
[20:15:40] <gector> any way to hook into the THC component?
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[20:16:03] <gector> *consistent
[20:16:05] <andypugh> gector: But bear in mind that 10 double-sided boards with resist, screen print and plating is $5 and 10 days to your door from CHina.
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[20:16:41] <gector> I'm aware
[20:16:57] <gector> this is gonna be useful for other stuff besides circuit engraving too
[20:17:06] <gector> and I already have everything, just taking up room
[20:17:09] <andypugh> gector: I don’t think that there is anything obvious to use as a height reference? Plasma can use arc voltage.
[20:17:52] <gector> I'm most concerned about the software side of things, I can setup something with an arduino if I know what kind of signal in the software wants
[20:18:26] <gector> how does the arc voltage as a height reference work?
[20:18:30] <andypugh> Anything an Arduino can do you can do in HAL.
[20:18:40] <gector> oh?
[20:19:05] <JT-Mobile> gector, have you looked at the THCAD card?
[20:19:12] <gector> the Mesa ones?
[20:19:24] <gector> otherwise no
[20:19:47] <andypugh> gector: Either with built-in components or by writing your own in C (just like on an Arduino): http://linuxcnc.org
[20:21:53] <gector> how does the control signal translate to a desired Z height? Does it send an absolute position, like Z-0.2, or just tell it to go up/down until it's at the right spot?
[20:22:21] <andypugh> Either, or both
[20:22:27] <gector> that's up to me?
[20:22:30] <andypugh> Yes
[20:22:31] <JT-Mobile> gector, yes the mesa card
[20:22:53] <gector> The mesa card can be used for non plasma projects?
[20:22:54] <JT-Mobile> it sends a pulse stream that is fed into an encoder component
[20:23:09] <XXCoder> mesa can be used for cnc anything I think
[20:23:10] <JT-Mobile> it does not know what your doing
[20:23:36] <gector> encoder component is in HAL? And is already recognized by vanilla linuxcnc?
[20:23:42] <gector> JT-Mobile
[20:23:44] <JT-Mobile> yes
[20:24:00] <JT-Mobile> at first i used the parallel port with the THCAD
[20:25:24] <gector> so it goes THCAD -> input pin of parallel port -> HAL encoder?
[20:25:48] <JT-Mobile> aye
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[20:26:41] <gector> interesting
[20:27:05] <gector> I actually have been building a plasma table for my Dad, and that's definitely the part I need I think
[20:27:58] <JT-Mobile> when I first built my plasma table I did not have any THC I just made sure the part was level
[20:28:10] <andypugh> gector: But I don’t think that the THCAD will be able to detect your PCB milling depth
[20:28:29] <JT-Mobile> I made a floating torch holder with a micro switch so I could touch off for each cut
[20:28:48] <gector> JT-Mobile: we have that already, it's on the Z axis
[20:29:08] <gector> torch mounts to a carriage with the switch on it, which is then mounted to the actual Z axis
[20:29:15] <JT-Mobile> THCAD for PCB depth?
[20:29:21] <gector> andypugh: do you think I could emulate it with an arduino?
[20:29:35] <andypugh> No
[20:29:42] <JT-Mobile> gector, same as mine
[20:30:06] <andypugh> Unless your Arduino can output 300V proprtional to PCB depth
[20:30:11] <gector> Yeah my main project rn is trying to setup an old engraver as a PCB milling tool
[20:30:22] <gector> wait it _output_ 300V?
[20:30:23] <JT-Mobile> http://gnipsel.com
[20:30:25] <andypugh> How do you propse to measure the depth?
[20:30:35] <gector> there are sensors to measure distance
[20:30:40] <gector> or I could touch off in a grid
[20:30:47] <gector> and apply some kind of weird transform
[20:31:23] <gector> JT-Mobile: looks similar to ours
[20:31:28] <JT-Mobile> doesn't the grid probe ngc file do that?
[20:31:39] <andypugh> There was an attempt to make a system thet probed the surface and appplied an offset. Using an STL file generated from the probe mesh
[20:31:55] <gector> https://www.autoleveller.co.uk
[20:32:12] <gector> there's a grid probe ngc file?
[20:32:25] <JT-Mobile> IIRC yes
[20:32:44] <JT-Mobile> I'm on a windoze laptop so I can't look
[20:33:00] <gector> "This program repeatedly probes in a regular XY grid and writes the probed location to the file probe-results.txt in the same directory as the .ini file."
[20:33:07] <gector> one I found says it just saves it to a file
[20:33:41] <andypugh> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org
[20:34:19] <gector> what is a trivkins module
[20:34:24] <andypugh> (Never worked very well at the time, might work perfectly with the External-Offsets branch.
[20:34:49] <andypugh> trivkins maps XYZ to joints 0,1,2
[20:35:12] <andypugh> It’s relevant to most cartesian machines, but no good for robots etc
[20:35:19] <gector> joints?
[20:35:43] <andypugh> slides, pivots
[20:37:37] <andypugh> Time to sleep
[20:37:43] <gector> aw, gnight
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[20:37:48] <JT-Mobile> night
[20:38:20] <gector> so I guess I'll try using grid probe + that module he mentioned
[20:38:32] <gector> probably gonna need grid probe setup regardless
[20:39:43] <JT-Mobile> trivkins is the normal one you use with a cartesian machine
[20:40:43] <gector> I'm gonna need at least 1 input pin setup anyway, I'm gonna work on that
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[21:03:55] <gector> *sigh* anyone know how to do inputs on the TB6560 3 axis driver
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[21:12:09] <Kevin`> gector: there's more than one schematic, unfortunately, unless you are using the bare chip. you are essentially driving an led, be aware of minimum on-time to saturate the receiver on infrequent pulses
[21:13:14] <gector> driving an LED?
[21:13:19] <gector> like an opto-coupler?
[21:13:24] <Kevin`> yes
[21:13:37] <gector> I don't even see any way of doing that though
[21:13:43] <gector> I don't understand the manual either
[21:14:07] <Kevin`> such drivers normally have a pair of connections each for step and direction
[21:14:22] <Kevin`> set direction, pulse step
[21:14:59] <gector> this is the one I have http://www.osservatoriobassano.org
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[21:16:06] <gector> I have a feeling you're talking about the simple single axis boards Kevin`
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[21:19:07] <Kevin`> it lists the pins pretty clearly, but you'll likely want to measure them with a meter to determine if they are common cathode or common anode
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[21:20:30] <Kevin`> there's also a picture of configuration presumably indicating they are active low though
[21:20:54] <gector> are we talking about the same thing? I mean how to hook up to the input pins of the parallel port through the driver board. Driver board -> Parallel port -> Limits-N-stuff
[21:21:39] <Kevin`> probably not, I thought you meant the inputs to the tb6560 stepper driver
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[21:22:58] <gector> that's what I thought
[21:23:01] <gector> sorry for being unclear
[21:26:42] <Kevin`> it looks like they are on pins 10,11,12,13. it's confusing about it but those *are* inputs on pc, and they are referenced in multiple locations in the document
[21:30:14] <gector> is it a smart idea to apply 5v to PIN 10 to make sure it's pointing to probe_in? I think I found how to monitor inputs and I found the probe one (it's TRUE), I just need to toggle that pin somehow and see if the HAL meter says it's FALSE
[21:30:53] <gector> or ground that pin, since it appears to already have 5V on it
[21:31:16] <gector> ground via resistor probably
[21:31:47] <Kevin`> no. there *should* be an optical isolator on that intput, making it one-way. if you need to apply a pullup/down voltage to an output, do so with a resistor
[21:32:31] <gector> aye, I'll see if that works
[21:32:34] <Kevin`> I would expect the pin to have it's own internal pullup or be push/pull, especially if you measure 5v already
[21:32:49] <Kevin`> probulate the input pin itself first IMO
[21:33:01] <Kevin`> the other side of it, that is
[21:33:19] <gector> if you mean unplug the parallel cable and work with that directly, that's what I'm doing
[21:33:50] <gector> ayy, that works
[21:33:58] <gector> resistor to ground makes that input go FALSE in the software
[21:34:03] <Kevin`> no, I mean apply a signal to the connector for inputs rather than the parallel port on the board
[21:34:08] <Kevin`> yay
[21:34:32] <gector> (that's what I meant)
[21:35:50] <gector> using the continuity testinger on my mutlimeter doesn't appear to yield anything on the driver actually attached to pin 10 annoyingly
[21:36:28] <Kevin`> does your meter have a seperate diode test mode?
[21:36:28] <gector> ah hold on
[21:36:32] <gector> yes it does
[21:36:40] <gector> and I think I forgot to measure the mirror
[21:36:55] <Kevin`> resistance mode and presumably continuitity in some cases usually uses a low voltage to *avoid* triggering junctions
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[21:38:41] <gector> I found the opto-isolater attached to pin 10
[21:40:00] <gector> and the pin on the driver board attached to other side.
[21:40:18] <gector> thanks
[21:59:13] <gector> got the grid probe file working
[22:24:07] <gector> but probekins seems have fallen off the face of the earth
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[22:39:20] <Lcvette> log
[22:39:21] <c-log> Lcvette: Today's Log http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81
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[22:40:18] <russtuff_> thanks for the youtube video link. it didn't workf for me but i'll keep working on it.
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