#linuxcnc | Logs for 2018-07-17

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[00:34:43] <IchGucksLive> morning from Germany
[00:35:36] <IchGucksLive> 6:30 am starting a day of sport with freewater swimmchalanges expected 1000 persons to swimm around the lake
[00:36:16] <IchGucksLive> im off 2 garden
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[03:04:04] <Deejay> moin
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[03:08:37] <selroc> hi pink_vampire|2
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[03:34:34] <diverdude> Hi there - did anybody in here try grbl? Does anybody know why grbl only has a single enable - and not enable for x and another for y?
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[03:45:20] <rmu> diverdude: i did try it, but didn't really do anything with it. why would you need separate enable signals?
[03:51:46] <Loetmichel> hmpf... customer orders a PC with a Power symbol on the button (that one: (') ) and wants it in the colour thats defined in the DIN EN 60950.... but doesent say which colour that is... anyone any idea? i am not willing to pay 200 eur for that DIN and work thru a few 100 pages just to find the colour.
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[04:06:08] <diverdude> rmu: i am having big problems controlling microstepping. The machine seems to move as the wind blows when looking at small scales <1mm. I was also considering if i could somehow run my drivers directly from raspberry pi w. linuxcnc instead
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[04:12:11] <rmu> diverdude: if the machine moves "by itself" then you have some noise issues or missing ground connection
[04:14:27] <rmu> running step/direction drivers from linuxcnc on a raspberry pi doesn't make sense IMO because you won't achieve useable step rates
[04:14:55] <diverdude> rmu: i am pretty sure there are no noise issues...checked that with ocilloscope and used shielded wires. Further - if i move the drives by writing my own small arduino code where i fix one enable permantly it moves ok....but when using grbl code where all enables are tied into one - there seems to be a lot of slug
[04:15:06] <rmu> it could work with "intelligent" SPI stepper drivers with built-in motion generation, but that would involve writing a new driver
[04:16:05] <rmu> diverdude: power supply is strong enough to supply holding current for all motors simultanously?
[04:20:39] <diverdude> rmu: yes it should be strong enough. I am using these drivers: https://www.lightobject.com these motors: https://www.lightobject.com and this power supply: https://www.lightobject.com
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[04:31:15] <diverdude> rmu: did you see?
[04:31:43] <rmu> sorry, was AFK
[04:31:45] <rmu> yes
[04:32:21] <diverdude> rmu: PSU should be strong enough right?
[04:33:01] <rmu> should be enough, it doesn't say what motors those are, but they look like 2A or so
[04:33:09] <rmu> what current did you configure?
[04:36:01] <rmu> I would check: * power wiring to drivers * ground connection * voltage levels on step/enable/dir signals when on and off. perhaps some pin needs pull up/down enabled.
[04:36:07] <diverdude> on the drives i set 0.675A on each motor
[04:37:01] <diverdude> rmu: ^
[04:37:54] <diverdude> rmu: the motors are Nema 23 high torque 5.2A 3-phase stepping motor
[04:38:29] <diverdude> rmu: so it seems i might not be supplying them enough current at all right?
[04:39:24] <rmu> are you sure?
[04:40:01] <rmu> 3-phase steppers do exist, but they are surely exotic
[04:40:27] <diverdude> rmu: it says so here: https://www.lightobject.com
[04:41:04] <diverdude> rmu: if you click on description tab halfway down on the site
[04:42:10] <rmu> i'm curious, how did you wire those motors to the drivers?
[04:42:53] <rmu> the driver says 2phase
[04:43:19] <rmu> the stepper motors seem to be 3phase indeed
[04:43:50] <rmu> https://www.ebay.com
[04:44:11] <rmu> aehm. better http://www.leadshine.com
[04:46:46] <rmu> diverdude: seems you got either the link to the driver wrong or the wrong driver
[04:46:49] <diverdude> rmu: there are 3 wires from each motor. i put those into the trives under U, V and W
[04:46:57] <diverdude> trives = drives
[04:48:09] <rmu> ok, if it says U V W on the driver then it should be OK. just up the current, but a 5A power supply probably is not enough to supply a 5.8A and a 3.5A motor
[04:52:09] <gloops> sounds like ground issue to me
[04:52:36] <diverdude> rmu: regarding ground i did the following
[04:54:44] <diverdude> rmu: from arduino i connected GRND pin to driver pins ENA-, DIR- and PUL-
[04:55:14] <diverdude> i did that on both drivers
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[05:00:11] <rmu> diverdude: you could try with proper (for the resp. motor) current settings. if all else fails, put a photo of your wiring somewhere.
[05:04:18] <diverdude> rmu: here is an image of the wiring: https://ibb.co
[05:15:26] <diverdude> rmu: hmm ok...setting up correct current seems to have helped quite a lot actually
[05:27:30] <enleth> oh, I just realized I have one more reason to start playing with STMBL - I pulled this huge 300VDC motor from a printing press, that was powered by an ancient 70s tech driver board
[05:27:54] <enleth> sounds like STMBL should do fine controlling that
[05:30:17] <enleth> that motor powered pretty much the whole press, AFAIR it's 3-4kW and has an integrated brake
[05:31:09] <enleth> I don't even know where to begin looking for an off-the-shelf drive for a motor like this
[05:31:49] <enleth> but a STMBL might be able to handle it at a reduced power
[05:35:59] <rmu> enleth: look at the linuxcnc wiki, there should be a page with links to commercial hardware
[05:41:26] <miss0r> syyl: You around?
[05:43:54] <miss0r> diverdude: That wiring looks pretty decent. In the future you 'could' consider using double ferrules for those jumper wires. Just my 5cent, should you be interrested
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[06:04:35] <enleth> rmu: doesn't look like it lists any high power, high voltage DC motor drives
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[06:33:57] <diverdude> miss0r: ok - what are those?
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[06:40:31] <Tom_L> morning
[06:40:43] <jthornton> morning
[06:41:13] <Tom_L> how are the chickens doin?
[06:42:32] <jthornton> they are 11 months old yesterday and I've been putting ice in the water bucket for the heat they seem to be doing ok
[06:43:03] <Tom_L> 77°F
[06:43:37] <jthornton> 74°F high of 92°F today
[06:45:05] <rmu> diverdude: http://www.swaonline.co.uk
[06:45:26] <rmu> enleth: 300VDC? brushed?
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[06:46:32] <jthornton> I usually just get the next bigger ferrule for jumpers
[06:46:32] <rmu> enleth: https://granitedevices.com
[06:47:01] <rmu> ok only 1k5W
[06:50:02] <rmu> enleth: perhaps a 7i29 from mesa would work
[06:50:40] <rmu> no, 165V
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[06:54:15] <jthornton> I wonder how you can get some of these https://github.com
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[07:12:06] <enleth> jthornton: make them. problem is, the powerpack it uses went out of production a couple months ago
[07:12:39] <jthornton> hmm I wonder if he is going to redesign it now
[07:14:53] <jthornton> https://github.com
[07:16:18] <enleth> jthornton: it's work in progress right now
[07:22:16] <enleth> rmu: yep, it's a weird motor. I guess in the 70s it was easier to make a single channel DC drive than three synchronized channels needed for a VFD
[07:23:15] <enleth> rmu: that's not the only 70s/early 80s piece of heavy equipment I found a high power DC motor in a role that would be filled by an AC induction motor in a more modern design
[07:23:43] <enleth> *where I found
[07:26:16] <Loetmichel> enleth: by now its back to (BL-)DC motors in three phase AC domains
[07:26:22] <Loetmichel> in a lot of places
[07:27:14] <enleth> Loetmichel: yep
[07:27:16] <Loetmichel> anyone still remember "leonard-sets"?
[07:27:34] <enleth> ah, Ward-Leonard
[07:27:52] <diverdude> rmu: its weird.... After changing current it works much better, the x engine has ok temperature but the y engine gets so hot
[07:28:07] <Loetmichel> i have heard that 1 phase/3phase leonard converters are still pretty much used in the u.s.
[07:28:17] <enleth> Loetmichel: there's a lot of elevators running those still in operation in Poland
[07:28:25] <enleth> 60s/70s stuff
[07:28:51] <Loetmichel> s/leonard/rotary
[07:29:05] <Loetmichel> not really leonard if they have no DC motor :)
[07:29:48] <Loetmichel> enleth: leonard was the standard to have VFDs before semiconductors were cheap
[07:30:17] <enleth> Loetmichel: actually, those elevators here *are* Ward-Leonard
[07:30:42] <enleth> not all of them, some are just two-speed induction motors
[07:30:44] <Loetmichel> enleth: i meant the us rotary converters from 1 phase to three phase
[07:30:49] <enleth> ah, OK
[07:31:05] <Loetmichel> these are not really leonard converters because they have no DC intermediate
[07:31:21] <Loetmichel> also they usually cant change frequency
[07:31:23] <enleth> because they're not supposed to be variable speed
[07:31:28] <rmu> diverdude: current too high?
[07:31:28] <Loetmichel> indeed
[07:31:37] <rmu> stepper motors do get hot
[07:31:41] <gonzo_> dyna-motors, or rotary converters were popular for getting high voltages for radio comms kit in the valve days. They were a dc motor and dynamo/alternator, on the same armature
[07:31:43] <rmu> 80°C
[07:32:27] <Loetmichel> gonzo_: i had a few leopard1 target illumination spotlights
[07:32:42] <diverdude> rmu: its supposed to get 5.8A and thats what i give it
[07:32:43] <Loetmichel> those had rotary converters for the 800W arc lamp. from 28V dc
[07:33:00] <gonzo_> Loetmichel, interesting
[07:33:07] <Loetmichel> supposedly indescructible
[07:33:16] <Loetmichel> because semiconductors in tanks....
[07:33:21] <Loetmichel> EMP and so on
[07:33:55] <Loetmichel> nice "whining" sound when switching them on
[07:34:02] <gonzo_> for lower power stuff, a vibrating reed inverter was sometinmes used. to chop the DC to drive a transformer step up
[07:34:16] <rmu> diverdude: one motor is 5.8A, the other is 3.5A according to description on website
[07:34:23] <Loetmichel> *klick* *whiiiiIIIIINNNNNE* *BAMPF* *BRRRRRRIIIIIGT*
[07:34:24] <Loetmichel> :-)
[07:34:55] <gonzo_> who need to post wav files!
[07:35:03] <gonzo_> needs
[07:35:24] <Loetmichel> and an 800W arc light with 1.3° opening angle is ONE HELL of a bright beam ;)
[07:36:01] <Loetmichel> and 1' reflector diameter
[07:38:07] <diverdude> rmu: yeah and thats how i set it
[07:38:32] <diverdude> its the 5.8 motor which gets very warm
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[07:46:50] <gonzo_> sounds like it would have recoil, when sparked up
[07:53:57] <Loetmichel> gonzo_: no recoil, but close ;)
[07:54:38] <Loetmichel> we used it as "skyfingers" on a motorized gimbal at Rock and roll concerts
[07:54:45] <Loetmichel> one left one right of the entrance ,)
[07:54:56] <enleth> I got my hands on a vintage 2kW photographic arc lamp once
[07:55:24] <Loetmichel> painting the clouds white (or coloured with lee filters) at night
[07:55:47] <enleth> it wasn't supposed to be on longer than 30 seconds at time
[07:56:13] <Loetmichel> enleth: arc electrodes melting?
[07:56:20] <enleth> probably
[07:57:08] <Loetmichel> yeah, on the leopard lamps you could see the tungsten electrodes afterglow for 30 sec or so after shutting it off ;)
[07:57:28] <enleth> it was a summer-zenith-sun-white, absolutely blinding
[07:57:38] <Loetmichel> indeed
[07:58:00] <enleth> radiated a lot of heat too
[07:58:02] <Loetmichel> it also deletes an Eprom in 10 seconds... been there tested that ;)
[07:58:59] <gonzo_> instant sun tan for anyone leaving the access door open inavisably
[08:00:03] <rmu> film projectors used to use carbon arc lamps
[08:01:55] <gloops> sodium lights are ok, like they use for growlights
[08:02:29] <gloops> ive got one with 600w ballast, it lights a BIG area with no cover on
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[08:38:28] * jthornton gives up on pyqt5 way to many seg faults lol it's not ready for prime time
[08:43:58] <jthornton> hmm a bluejay is in the chicken run
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[09:42:02] <enleth> in case anyone's interested - the proper 1:1 V-belt and pulley set for a Bridgeport Series 1 rigid ram head is: two 160mm OD A-size pulleys and an A1005 belt
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[09:57:34] <hazzy-lab> jthornton: Seg faults in PyQt5, really? I have never had a seg fault in PyQt (unless I wrote it :D)
[09:57:34] <hazzy-lab> what are you trying to do?
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[10:02:32] <jthornton> lol I have one menu item that prints to the terminal
[10:04:11] <hazzy-lab> Ok, that should be trivial!
[10:04:34] <hazzy-lab> I would be more than happy to look at your code if you'd like
[10:04:37] <jthornton> http://gnipsel.com
[10:04:43] <jthornton> that's what I thought lol
[10:04:46] <hazzy-lab> perfect!
[10:05:38] <hazzy-lab> Internal Server Error for the .py files
[10:06:41] <jthornton> let me zip it up
[10:07:32] <hazzy-lab> Ok, thanks!
[10:08:27] <pcw_home> jthornton: blue jays will eat chicken eggs...
[10:09:36] <hazzy-lab> got the zip
[10:11:48] <jthornton> pcw_home: http://gnipsel.com
[10:12:10] <jthornton> be kinda hard for a bluejay to find the eggs in the roll out nest box :)
[10:12:25] <jthornton> http://gnipsel.com
[10:12:41] <jthornton> hazzy-lab: see you out in the shop
[10:12:45] <hazzy-lab> jthornton: Works fine here on debian stretch with Qt 5.7.1, are you in Mint?
[10:12:49] <hazzy-lab> OK!
[10:15:02] <pcw_home> jthornton: that does looks blue jay proof :-)
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[10:18:36] <JT-Shop> hazzy-lab: yes I was using linux mint
[10:19:11] <hazzy-lab> What error did you get?
[10:19:14] <hazzy-lab> This: ImportError: /home/kurt/.local/lib/python3.5/site-packages/PyQt5/QtCore.so: undefined symbol: PySlice_AdjustIndices
[10:19:28] <JT-Shop> segmentation fault when I exited
[10:20:06] <gloops> hmm, just bought a used Einhell hammer drill for ÂŁ20 off somebody - never heard of them expected it to be crap - actually seems pretty good!
[10:21:06] * JT-Shop better finish the hot wires around the chicken yard before it gets too hot outside
[10:21:16] <hazzy-lab> seg at exit usually means a parent widget was deleted before the child, I know older version of (Qt5.5?) had that problem sometimes
[10:21:34] <hazzy-lab> But it is harmless
[10:22:08] <hazzy-lab> I do not get seg faults here on 5.7.1
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[10:34:51] <jthornton> Qt version: 5.7.0
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[10:39:21] <hazzy-lab> Are you running with Py2 or Py3? Shabang is py3, I am running it on py2. If you installed PyQt5 with pip that can cause problems if the system version files don't match the pip version (which is likely)
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[10:44:48] <jthornton> hazzy-lab, do you use qtcreator?
[10:45:09] <hazzy-lab> No, I can't stand it :D
[10:45:24] <hazzy-lab> I just use QtDesinger for the UI files
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[10:46:38] <jthornton> ok that is what I've been doing using qtdesigner then pyuic
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[10:47:22] <hazzy-lab> You can load the UI directly like in Gtk if you want
[10:47:24] <hazzy-lab> sek
[10:47:53] <hazzy-lab> Like this: https://www.dropbox.com
[10:48:59] <jthornton> ah thanks that saves a step
[10:49:09] <hazzy-lab> yes!
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[10:49:58] <hazzy-lab> It is no slower to start up either, I ran a bunch of test with complicated UIs and it only took ~.2s lonnger, so its a no brainer
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[10:54:07] <jthornton> hmm caja in debian does not seem to have an open in terminal command
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[10:56:17] <hazzy-lab> that sucks
[10:56:18] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: hot wires? as in electroshock?
[10:56:36] <jthornton> exactly it's very shocking for sure
[10:56:49] <Loetmichel> dosent a horse electric fence kill chickens?
[10:57:08] <Loetmichel> or are ther special fence generators for chickens?
[10:58:07] <jthornton> no it doesn't kill them but the do squabble and yell a lot the time one got hit... the hot wires are on the outside of the chain link fence
[10:58:59] <Loetmichel> i can imagine... would have thought that the joules needed to shock a horse into submission would stop a chickens heart for sure.
[10:59:44] <Loetmichel> on the other hand: a human can touch an electric fence without much problem... as long as he doesent touch it via some urine ;)
[10:59:52] <jthornton> makes them fly across the yard, I've closed up any holes they can stick their head through
[11:01:42] <jthornton> the hot wires are to keep predators out not keep the chickens in
[11:01:49] <Loetmichel> i see
[11:02:27] <Loetmichel> then: MOAR POWA... (after you fixed all the loopholes for the chickens)
[11:02:45] <Loetmichel> i heard roasted fox should be pretty good food ;)
[11:03:04] <Loetmichel> i wanna see that 30 second 10kV arc :-)
[11:03:23] <jthornton> the arc only lasts for a few milliseconds
[11:03:28] <rmu> chicken a la störlichtbogen?
[11:04:06] <jthornton> hazzy-lab, thanks for the info, I got it working on this debian drive so I'll work on it more in the morning
[11:05:07] <hazzy-lab> wellingtons provide enough insulation that you won't get shocked when touching a live fence, so I got careless, until one day a 1.5 year old crawled up to me and touched my leg, it shocked the bejesus out of the poor little guy
[11:05:23] <hazzy-lab> He was scared of me after that, wonder why ..
[11:14:54] <Loetmichel> hihi
[11:16:35] * Loetmichel got his first 230V experience at age 3. Dad was fixing an outlet and courious $me took an all metal screwdriver and touched the live wire... Dad said i rolled thru the whole living room :-)
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[11:20:30] <gloops> that could explain a lot Loetmichel..lol
[11:24:15] <Loetmichel> gloops: how so?
[11:27:30] <hazzy-lab> gloops: xD
[11:27:35] <JT-Shop> hazzy-lab: mine you don't need the ground to get shocked... you just touch the fence and the hot wire the fence is grounded to the hot box
[11:28:44] <hazzy-lab> But the current has to pass thru your body
[11:28:59] <hazzy-lab> aha, I guess if it were AC that would work
[11:30:42] <hazzy-lab> so it shocks by rapidly charging and discharging the subject
[11:31:07] <gloops> yes, a farmer once tricked me with that, i dont know what actually happened, but he wanted to test the fence, he held the wire and said we could test it if i touched his hand - of course i got the shock
[11:31:09] <jthornton> it sends a pulse every few seconds
[11:31:43] <jthornton> I use an insulated wire to test mine, nice big 1/2" blue spark
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[11:33:33] <hazzy-lab> That is very clever! I was wondering how an electric fence would work for birds, since they would not be grounded
[11:37:45] * hazzy-lab used to be into high voltage, i.e. ~100kV range: https://i.imgur.com
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[12:16:25] <miss0r> diverdude: You still around?
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[12:28:50] <jthornton> well sudo apt-get install caja-open-terminal gives you the pormpt
[12:34:08] <Loetmichel> *muhaha* radio just talked about the nervousness of trump in his putin meeting... radio moderator: "no wonder. who isnt nervous when his boss calls him in a 1 on 1 meeting?"
[12:35:15] <hazzy-lab> heh
[12:50:21] <roycroft> i hear trump did such a good job yesterday putin is thinking of hiring him on for another four years
[12:50:54] <Loetmichel> roycroft: THATS mean
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[12:53:36] <IchGucksLive> hi all
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[13:01:38] <roycroft> can linuxcnc drive a delta axis machine?
[13:01:52] <Loetmichel> roycroft: yes
[13:01:58] <roycroft> cool
[13:02:27] <Loetmichel> you'll have to do the kinematics calculations yourself first though
[13:02:28] <hazzy-lab> there is a deltakins module
[13:03:02] <Loetmichel> ... to get it working correctly
[13:03:06] <cradek_> there are both rotary delta and linear delta modules
[13:03:12] <roycroft> i'm not sure that's something i might want to do
[13:03:18] <roycroft> but i'm considering it
[13:03:56] <roycroft> it's good to know it's an option
[13:04:06] <roycroft> a rotary axis machine might be fun too
[13:05:46] <Loetmichel> https://www.youtube.com
[13:06:01] <Loetmichel> linear axis delta machine
[13:06:39] <hazzy-lab> it is possible to make linuxcnc.command.wait_complete() never time out?
[13:06:45] <Loetmichel> https://www.youtube.com <- rotational axis delta. not linuxCNC though
[13:06:52] <hazzy-lab> I tried passing -1 but it does not do anything
[13:08:36] <hazzy-lab> Heck, I'll just pass a very large value for the time out :P
[13:09:40] <hazzy-lab> 10000s should do
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[13:15:38] <Rab> That hexapod sure is sexy, wish there was more detail. They posted a video update in 2017: https://www.youtube.com
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[13:16:22] <Rab> $6-8K in parts, "not ready for aluminium" isn't super encouraging though.
[13:19:43] <IchGucksLive> there is a deltamashine example in the 2.8
[13:20:58] <IchGucksLive> im off till tomorrow Folks
[13:21:02] <IchGucksLive> Gn8
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[13:22:27] <Rab> Hexapod person has a blog: http://parallelrobots.blogspot.com
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[13:26:35] <Rab> https://www.youtube.com
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[15:11:22] <Beachbumpete1> Rab that thing really moves
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[15:18:04] <XXCoder> roycroft: linuxcnc can drive up tp 26 axis iirc
[15:18:57] <jdh> just a letter restriction?
[15:19:20] <jdh> I want a ?-axis
[15:19:31] <XXCoder> not sure on that
[15:20:06] <Tom_L> It can simultaneously move up to 9 axes and supports a variety of interfaces.
[15:20:28] <Tom_L> http://linuxcnc.org
[15:22:04] <XXCoder> move 9 axis at same time dang
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[15:26:18] <diverdude> miss0r: yes now im here
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[15:34:20] <miss0r> diverdude: For the picture you posted
[15:34:55] <miss0r> You made some nice wiring; including some jumper wires.
[15:35:55] <miss0r> You did the right thing and added wire ferrules(the small tubes you push over the end of the wires). You can get those in a double configuration as well - that makes the an easy, and nice looking, task of doing terminals with more than one wire in'em
[15:37:11] <diverdude> ahhh ok cool
[15:37:15] <diverdude> thx
[15:37:29] <miss0r> No problem ;)
[15:37:45] <Rab> Whoa @ double wire ferrules, hadn't come across those before.
[15:38:48] <miss0r> rab: realy ? :S
[15:39:27] <miss0r> rab: they look like this: https://ae01.alicdn.com
[15:39:38] <Rab> Yep. I've used the single uninsulated ferrules. I guess there's no difference without the insulation.
[15:40:37] <miss0r> yeah, then its all the same
[15:40:46] <jdh> I got some new PLC remote io blocks that don't work well with ferrules, just bare wires. spring xla
[15:41:11] <jdh> spring clamps so they aren't really required but I like them.
[15:41:13] <miss0r> jdh: yeah, with those its much better to just use the 'raw' wire
[15:41:46] <miss0r> Especially on PLC modules. Most of the DIN-rail spring terminals work okay with ferrules
[15:43:26] <miss0r> Basically all the spring terminals on rockwell automation stuff is awfull for ferrules
[15:44:21] <JT-Shop> yea spring terminals only work on bare wire
[15:48:12] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com is it really deciding anything or just making choices from a given range + some noise
[15:52:35] <CaptHindsight> if I use http://www.linuxcnc.org and add some randomness is this todays AI?
[16:04:58] <gregcnc> did you see? additive titanium print https://vimeo.com
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[16:14:29] <CaptHindsight> that was part of a story on Vice a few weeks ago
[16:15:44] <CaptHindsight> real applications for additive manufacturing vs the hijacked 3D printing term by hucksters
[16:16:54] <Beachbumpete1> that is impressive in titanium has this already been to space or still in testing?
[16:18:56] <CaptHindsight> https://news.lockheedmartin.com
[16:19:45] <CaptHindsight> Technicians used Electron Beam Additive Manufacturing® to produce these domes in the largest 3-D printer at our facility in Denver. Lockheed Martin now offers the tank as a standard product option for LM 2100 satellite buses.
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[16:22:22] <CaptHindsight> http://www.sciaky.com the machine are actually made by this local co
[16:30:42] <gregcnc> seems they were making tanks like that in 2015
[16:34:59] <gloops> Uks new proposed jet fighter revealed yesterday
[16:35:33] <gloops> superior to f22, maybe online for 2030, pilot or remote
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[16:37:22] <gloops> https://www.theguardian.com
[16:38:13] <gloops> This will include “swarming” technology that uses artificial intelligence and machine learning to hit its targets, as well as directed energy weapons (DEW), which used concentrated bursts of laser, microwave or particle beam energy to inflict damage.
[16:38:43] <gloops> woohoo we need to see this in action
[16:39:02] <JT-Shop> I'll be dead by the time it flies :(
[16:39:21] <gloops> JT-Shop nah youve got years left in you
[16:42:14] <CaptHindsight> nah we'll just print you some replacement parts https://www.youtube.com
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[16:46:03] <CaptHindsight> https://www.defense.gov
[16:50:22] <gloops> still JT-Shop has a point, exciting times ahead and we wont see any of it
[16:52:26] <gloops> i saw the rise of the cell phone, the internet, diesel turbo engines, macdonalds etc, the next generation will see other things
[16:53:07] <JT-Shop> I'd bet it don't fly until 2040
[16:53:56] <JT-Shop> well I hope to be alive in 2040 if so I'll only be 82
[16:55:06] <gloops> i said that on the facebook page - how do we know that technology will still even be relevant by the time it flies
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[16:57:39] <Deejay> gn8
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[17:03:31] <Wolf__> damn timed auctions, people need to stop bidding on the stuff I want lol
[17:06:28] <gloops> kill it with one massive bid
[17:07:04] <Wolf__> oddly they managed to push right up to my max bid and then quit lol
[17:11:14] <gloops> im seeing quite a few bargains on fb Marketplace, got a nice drill today just because it was there, no bidding or anything, you just need to spot the bargains quick
[17:12:03] <Wolf__> this is that tool and die shop close out, so bidding can go weird
[17:12:12] <gloops> ahh that one
[17:12:24] <gloops> theyll all know about that
[17:13:19] <Wolf__> so far someone bumped my max off the deckel single lip grinder and ran my bid up to max on mag sine plate
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[17:13:56] <Wolf__> actually mag sine x3
[17:14:21] <gloops> was it your real max though ? haha
[17:14:36] <gloops> or was it just the price you wanted to pay
[17:15:00] <Wolf__> put in $50 each on the sine plates, I might go up to $100 ea
[17:16:18] <Wolf__> debating if I want to fight over that deckel grinder
[17:16:18] <gloops> i dunno, ive regretted not bidding again plenty of times, but also regretted bidding again probably more
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[17:16:46] <Wolf__> lol yeah, thats the fun part with these things
[17:17:37] <Wolf__> last shop auction I ended up spending almost $600 but was partly kicking myself for a couple things I didn’t get
[17:18:26] <gloops> yeah thats the thing, the prices they go up to get disappointing but then you realise later it was easily worth that - when you need it and you havent got it
[17:19:40] <andypugh> I just wrote my firs “Instructable” about the little-known PCB prototyping technique of “Verowire”
[17:20:03] <Wolf__> I know the deckel and magnetic sine plates are $$$
[17:20:07] <andypugh> (It’s like wire-wrap on perfboard)
[17:21:53] <CaptHindsight> they still sell that?!
[17:22:13] <andypugh> They do, and it is still pretty useful.
[17:22:50] <andypugh> Fiddly and annoying too, but that board would have been really difficult with stripboard.
[17:23:18] <Wolf__> just flying traces imo =)
[17:24:22] <hazzy-lab> andypugh: link?
[17:24:28] <andypugh> https://www.instructables.com
[17:25:01] <hazzy-lab> Thank you!!
[17:26:25] <hazzy-lab> the boards aren't that tinned ceramic anymore!
[17:28:17] <hazzy-lab> maybe the ceramic boards were only for high voltage applications ..
[17:28:29] <andypugh> That’s just FR4 I think
[17:34:26] <hazzy-lab> very enjoyable read andypugh
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[17:34:44] <Wolf__> pretty neat idea there
[17:35:33] <andypugh> I use it quite a bit, and have noticed that nobody else seem to have heard of it.
[17:37:52] <Wolf__> only wire wrapping wire I have is insulated kynar, I dont think the insulation melts
[17:37:54] <hazzy-lab> Re voltage: at over about 1000v with the old ceramic boards and combs the solder tended to migrate/diffuse thru the ceramic, which over time resulted in shorts, which were a pain to find, since they were internal. Sometimes you would get lucky and could see slight tell-tail staining
[17:40:24] <Wolf__> andypugh: suggestion, hakko micro soft wire cutters, work great for small stuff and cheap
[17:40:28] <Rab> andypugh, I think the infamous elm-chan may have beaten you to it: http://elm-chan.org http://elm-chan.org http://elm-chan.org
[17:41:31] <Rab> He uses a similar wire, I think it maybe has polyester insulation. I was able to grab a roll on eBay.
[17:41:49] <rmu> Rab: I just had the same thought ;)
[17:42:12] <rmu> elm-chan technique is insane
[17:42:53] <hazzy-lab> andypugh: Is this for the clock?
[17:42:59] <Rab> Relevant to channel (from *2001-2005*): http://elm-chan.org
[17:43:51] <rmu> http://elm-chan.org
[17:43:54] <andypugh> I think that the technique has been around for several decades. But it wasn’t mentioned on Instructables.
[17:48:48] <Rab> hazzy-lab, that was a common and terrible failure mode for Tektronix 500-series tube oscilloscopes, which used ceramic terminal strips with silver solder. HV potential everywhere, causing silver to migrate between terminals. That happened to my 531A and I caught a pic of it arcing: http://reboots.g-cipher.net
[17:49:15] <hazzy-lab> ouch!
[17:49:39] * hazzy-lab has 5 Tek scopes
[17:50:09] <Rab> I painstakingly replaced the strip and adjacent components, but the scope was still dead...guess something elsewhere got cooked when it arced.
[17:50:26] <hazzy-lab> That is a shame
[17:50:45] <hazzy-lab> I have a 531A parts scope if you are interested
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[17:51:03] <hazzy-lab> it is in pretty good shape, but not worth restoring
[17:51:27] <Rab> I've heard bad things happen if you repair them with non-silver solders, like it causes the terminals to delaminate somehow.
[17:51:49] <hazzy-lab> Hmm, maybe it melts at a higher temperature?
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[17:52:37] <Rab> Many (maybe all?) 500-series scopes came from the factory with a little coil of approved silver solder as an accessory or hidden inside the chassis, because Tek was quite the class act in that era.
[17:53:08] <Rab> (As you'd expect for $15,000 1965 dollars)
[17:53:26] <hazzy-lab> I did not know that! That is a neat anecdote
[17:53:52] <Rab> hazzy-lab, thanks for the offer, but I just put my 531A on craigslist for $10. No bites so far. Somebody did take my semi-working 547.
[17:54:26] <andypugh> I have a little Sony / Tek scope and it’s lovely. It has on-screen character generators and menus and other stuff that must have been super-expensive back then.
[17:54:30] <Rab> Gotta free up space, and that's a lot of it.
[17:55:26] <andypugh> (Mine is the 336)
[17:56:05] <hazzy-lab> https://kurtjacobson.weebly.com
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[17:56:58] <Rab> andypugh, very odd, I didn't know Tek ever had a partnership with Sony. Looks nice and compact for a digital storage CRO.
[17:57:22] <andypugh> Rab: About as big as an A4 sheet of paper.
[17:57:41] <andypugh> So motorcycle-portable (which matters to me)
[17:58:17] <hazzy-lab> my 547 belonged to Roy Goslin of Y12 fame at the oak ridge uranium preprocessing plant
[17:58:35] <Rab> andypugh, that's actually pretty impressive.
[18:00:01] <Rab> hazzy-lab, looks in really nice shape.
[18:00:31] <hazzy-lab> The 336 is a dual trace, nice!
[18:00:39] <hazzy-lab> thanks Rab
[18:06:29] <Rab> More than anyone could want to know about the ceramic strips: https://vintagetek.org
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[18:15:53] <hazzy-lab> That's a good article Rab, interesting history of the development
[18:17:42] <hazzy-lab> We had some fun with Lissajous patterns a while back: https://youtu.be
[18:18:14] <hazzy-lab> just used a sound card for the signal generator
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[19:32:56] <Tom_L> andypugh how long did it take to make that board?
[19:33:11] <andypugh> A couple of evenings.
[19:33:22] <Tom_L> that's not bad
[19:33:40] <Tom_L> lots of flipping back and forth to find pins i suspect
[19:34:15] <Tom_L> that used to be _the_ way to make a prototype
[19:34:16] <andypugh> (It was a bare bit of board at 8pm last night and was a completed board at about 9 today. So probably 6 hoirs.
[19:34:38] <Tom_L> not bad at all
[19:36:43] <andypugh> Strip=board would have taken a lot longer, and a lot more thought. But with the enamelled wire you just run from point to point.
[19:37:16] <Tom_L> even drawing a pcb in cad would have taken the time
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[19:53:28] <jdh> probably got this link from here originally, but if not: https://www.instagram.com
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[21:26:46] <R2E4> eb=vening, morning, afternoon whenever....
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[21:27:21] <hazzy-lab> hello R2E4
[21:27:26] <R2E4> JT or Peter around?
[21:27:42] <R2E4> 5i25 two solid red leds, dont blink on boot.
[21:28:18] <R2E4> lcnc wont start cause it cant find 5i25...
[21:29:11] <R2E4> hm2_pci.ko no device found
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[21:30:16] <R2E4> insmod for hjm2_pci failed
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[21:51:10] <R2E4> I think the single pci slot is bad or something. Put the card in another computer and the two red leds flashes like it is suppsoe to.
[21:59:24] <R2E4> anything in bios I can do?
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[23:01:54] <hazzy-lab> Is it possible to return the calling subroutine from the called sub?
[23:10:00] <flyback> http://remix.kwed.org
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[23:23:10] <pcw_home> R2E4: sounds like bad power supply (low 3.3V)
[23:24:27] <pcw_home> 3.3V needs to be more than ~3.1V to start
[23:26:56] <R2E4> ok thanks, I'll check.
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