#linuxcnc | Logs for 2018-08-11
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[01:45:01] <veek> what's wt%/C : weight in terms of grams?
[01:46:31] <veek> 0.2wt%/C 100gm of alloy has 0.2gm C?
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[03:05:53] <Deejay> moin
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[05:54:38] <jthornton> morning
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[05:56:01] <XXCoder> yo
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[05:59:06] <jthornton> .weather
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[06:13:05] <jthornton> dang varmints are bad this year caught two coons 2 nights ago and one last night trapped 12 tree rats in the last week
[06:13:56] <XXCoder> tree rats interesting
[06:14:14] <XXCoder> yeah hotter weather means longer breeding season
[06:14:15] <XXCoder> it sucks
[06:16:50] <jthornton> I don't trap them unless they come on my deck
[06:19:08] <jthornton> chickens get 18 minutes of extra light today
[06:20:43] <jthornton> I went down to the social security office yesterday to get an appointment to sign up for medicare
[06:21:11] <jthornton> next july I sign up for social security checks
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[06:28:46] <jthornton> I see freenode upped the anti with the spammers
[06:28:48] <jthornton> Due to the persistent ongoing spam, all new connections are being set +R (block messages from unidentified users) and will be scanned for vulnerabilities.
[06:30:49] <XXCoder> dang
[06:31:02] <XXCoder> damn libel bots getting all uppity eh
[06:31:18] <jthornton> yea they were getting very bad
[06:31:30] <XXCoder> jeez.
[06:32:06] <XXCoder> I wonder why they are doing that
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[06:55:36] <jthornton> no idea
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[07:43:47] <jthornton> anyone know what I'm doing wrong with this https://paste.ubuntu.com
[07:44:09] <jthornton> GPG error: http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org stretch Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY EF1B07FEE0EE663E
[07:44:09] <jthornton> W: The repository 'http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org stretch Release' is not signed.
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[08:14:28] <Tom_L> that's a new one
[08:17:15] <jthornton> I wonder if the recv-key changed???
[08:22:45] <Tom_L> https://github.com
[08:22:55] <Tom_L> not sure if any clues would be there or not
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[08:54:20] <jthornton> some good info on building a live cd in there
[08:55:55] <jthornton> interesting the spam continues but gets knocked off pretty quick OwenBarfield has quit (Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)))
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[10:39:58] <hazzy-lab> jthornton: this is a common problem (has been for quite some time). this might be helpful: https://github.com
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[10:40:48] <hazzy-lab> (be sure to look at the "Adding a Signing Key" at the very bottom of the page)
[10:41:18] <pfred1> hazzy-lab how's my Python guru doing today?
[10:41:55] <hazzy-lab> hey pfred1!
[10:42:11] <hazzy-lab> cranking along :)
[10:42:50] <pfred1> that's good
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[11:20:13] <jthornton> hazzy-dev: the key added ok afaik
[11:22:45] <jthornton> yea just checked and the key was imported when I did apt-key
[11:23:38] <phipli> How well does linuxcnc run on old PCs, say like 15 years old?
[11:24:11] <jthornton> might have to use and older OS like ugbuntu 10
[11:24:27] <jthornton> just have to see if the live cd boots up
[11:25:13] <hazzy-lab> jthornton: excellent! the error is very similar if the key is not added properly
[11:27:05] <jthornton> same thing I got the other day and ended up with the vietnamese g code quick reference in the menu lol
[11:28:39] <hazzy-lab> phipli: RTAI runs very well on old hardware. I have T42 laptop from 2005 that runs LCNC better then any modern PC I have tried, about 5000ns latency. And it has a par port so it is a perfect for testing with
[11:29:33] <hazzy-lab> jthornton: did you see sebs comments on the vietnamese trans problem? I think you may have been clicking on the wrong menu entry ....
[11:30:04] <hazzy-lab> jthornton: http://highlab.com
[11:30:17] <phipli> hazzy-lab, yeah - I have an old pc previous housemate left with me
[11:30:30] <phipli> with a parallel port etc...
[11:30:37] <phipli> figuring it would make a good CNC box
[11:30:45] <jthornton> now I wonder why it shows up as a menu item at all
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[11:33:38] <hazzy-lab> jthornton: you can remove it easily enough if it is confusing, but it would be hard for somebody who really needs the vietnamese trans to add it. I assume that is the reasoning ...
[11:34:26] <pfred1> I hate having loads of translations on my PC
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[11:34:39] <jthornton> right it should not be there unless you select the vietnamese language
[11:34:59] <pfred1> Linux being international loads so many
[11:35:27] <pfred1> it isn't worth the hassle of ditching the junk either
[11:36:27] <pfred1> doing the code page jazz in the kernel is one of the worst parts about configuring it
[11:36:53] <pfred1> well it used to be a real nightmare in just make config
[11:37:22] <pfred1> because if you missed picking the page you needed you had to start all over
[11:37:40] <hazzy-lab> jthornton: not sure if linuxcnc can easily change the menus per language though. I guess there could be a separate set of menus that get installed depending on the system language. That would be nice!
[11:37:59] <pfred1> internationalization
[11:38:20] <jthornton> I think the french shows up if you select that language
[11:38:25] <pfred1> I think the OS just does it?
[11:38:37] <pfred1> like it is a built in feature
[11:38:43] <jthornton> hmm the buildbnot key is different than the one in the manual
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[11:39:25] <pfred1> I'm American so I don't know about foreign languages
[11:39:52] <pfred1> they all look foreign to me
[11:41:45] <jthornton> hazzy-dev: I've tried before to remove a menu item in debian and they forbid it lol
[11:42:15] <hazzy-lab> forbid? they are just text files ...
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[11:43:15] <hazzy-lab> I gave instructions on how to customize them here yesterday, it is very easy
[11:43:16] <hazzy-lab> sek
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[11:43:25] <jthornton> well I've never found a menu editor that worked in debian
[11:44:07] <hazzy-lab> all you need is a text editor, nano will work
[11:44:46] <fragalot> guys, if you could choose between a Deckel FP1 or FP2, or a Schaublin 13, and you're VERY constrained for space.. Which would it be?
[11:45:35] <jthornton> log
[11:45:35] <c-log> jthornton: Today's Log http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81
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[11:48:43] <jthornton> hazzy-dev: I just deleted the file
[11:48:53] <hazzy-lab> perfect!
[11:49:23] <jthornton> kind of a pia to have to that and create a file just to stop the are sure you want to quit...
[11:52:37] <hazzy-lab> if you want to add a new menu item all you have to do is duplicate one of the other ones and edit it to do what you want. I did that to add QtDesigner to the Development menu :)
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[11:54:13] <jthornton> the average joe won't have a clue why he had a vietnamese menu or what to do
[11:54:34] <jthornton> his thought will be something is wrong...
[11:55:29] <hazzy-lab> I agree, it would be best if it only appeared when the local was set to vietnamese
[11:55:51] <pfred1> if vietnamese shows up on my screen something is definitely wong
[11:56:31] <jthornton> well I'm beaten to submission by debian for today time for a nap
[11:56:48] <pfred1> I have to reinstall here, again
[11:56:54] <pfred1> but i keep putting it off
[11:57:24] <pfred1> I thought I was going to be able ot somehow copy my system onto my new drive but that's not as easy as it sounds to do
[11:57:49] <pfred1> it is theoretically possible but not entirely ideal
[11:58:43] <pfred1> supposedly on install the system will optimize for the different drive or so I've been lead to believe
[11:59:36] <hazzy-lab> pfred1: did you use dd? I have one master LCNC HDD set up how I like it that I then clone to new HDD as I set up machines. Never had a problem doing that at all
[11:59:56] <pfred1> I am going from a mech drive to a SSD
[12:00:10] <pfred1> f it was mech to mech it'd be less complicated
[12:00:29] <pfred1> ssd needs trim
[12:00:40] <hazzy-lab> I have done that too. Are the sizes vastly different?
[12:00:51] <pfred1> well i could get it to fit
[12:01:02] <hazzy-lab> trim should already be there, even if you installed on a HDD
[12:01:03] <pfred1> I don't plan on copying everything over
[12:01:46] <pfred1> what sucks is i just had to reinstall because i was using a backport that made upgrading my video card impossible
[12:02:10] <pfred1> I got thrown into dependency hell because of that
[12:02:25] <hazzy-lab> ah, that is no fun :(
[12:02:30] <pfred1> no it wasn't
[12:02:55] <pfred1> so now I got everything going OK again and everyone shamed me into getting a SSD and here i go reinstalling again
[12:03:42] <pfred1> I swear the HDD i use is pretty fast as it is
[12:03:58] <pfred1> in sequential reads the SSD is only twice as fast
[12:04:20] <pfred1> but i hear it is a big difference in random reads
[12:04:35] <pfred1> I'll see
[12:05:17] <pfred1> Seagate baracuda drives are damned fast for spinning rust
[12:05:21] <hazzy-lab> on win I find the SSD makes a big difference, but I have not noticed much improvement on linux
[12:05:31] <pfred1> Linux caches a lot in RAM
[12:06:02] <pfred1> like the first time I open a browser on boot it takes a moment after that it just pops up
[12:06:13] <hazzy-lab> are Seagate baracudas good? Lol, that is what I am running too, but I got them out of a junk bin xD
[12:06:32] <pfred1> well the particular model I'm using was wel lreviewed
[12:06:40] <hazzy-lab> mine are old ...
[12:06:51] <pfred1> Model=ST1000DM010-2EP102
[12:07:02] <pfred1> that particular drive is blasing fast
[12:07:51] <pfred1> Timing cached reads: 28168 MB in 1.99 seconds = 14126.82 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 630 MB in 3.01 seconds = 209.41 MB/sec
[12:08:03] <hazzy-lab> that is good!
[12:08:14] <pfred1> this is the SSD
[12:08:28] <pfred1> Timing cached reads: 26694 MB in 1.99 seconds = 13385.64 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 1534 MB in 3.00 seconds = 510.75 MB/sec
[12:08:44] <pfred1> so my Seagate is faster cache
[12:09:05] <hazzy-lab> nice!
[12:09:16] <pfred1> pretty sick rust beats out sand
[12:10:12] <pfred1> I got a WD NAND drive it's not the fastest SSD going
[12:10:14] <hazzy-lab> yeah, that is a bit surprising
[12:10:30] <pfred1> though in some ways it'll beat an EVO
[12:11:19] <pfred1> it was sure a nicer price
[12:11:23] <hazzy-lab> those barracuda's are also a fraction of the cost of an SSD, pretty attractive
[12:11:50] <pfred1> yeah 1TB was like $50
[12:12:28] <pfred1> 500GB SSD almost $100
[12:12:47] <hazzy-lab> lol, the 500gb is more than the Itb: http://a.co
[12:12:57] <hazzy-lab> yes!
[12:13:21] <pfred1> yeah that's like my HDD
[12:13:31] <pfred1> they're good drives
[12:13:44] * hazzy-lab thinks about getting one
[12:14:07] <pfred1> I'm really hoping in use i see some speed out of this SSD
[12:14:32] <pfred1> in actually reading the disk the SSD is faster
[12:14:40] <hazzy-lab> right
[12:15:03] <pfred1> about 2.5X faster
[12:15:21] <pfred1> it still cost 4X as much per unit of storage though
[12:15:32] <gregcnc> reminds me I need to set up a new NAS
[12:15:47] <pfred1> I need a new switch still
[12:15:55] <pfred1> I am using a switch I bought in like 1994
[12:16:22] <pfred1> I guess I should be happy it still even works but it is slow
[12:17:16] <pfred1> gigabit switches are not cheap though
[12:17:36] <pfred1> I still really do need one
[12:18:01] <pfred1> I think my ancient switch is 10mb/s?
[12:18:24] <pfred1> I don't think it can even do 100mb/s
[12:19:13] <hazzy-lab> haha
[12:19:24] <hazzy-lab> that is pretty slow
[12:19:31] <pfred1> real funny when I am trying to move data let me tell you
[12:20:37] <pfred1> I have to redo my whole LAN here
[12:21:33] <pfred1> when I first set it up my one PC couldn't directly communicate with my ISP's router dingle donger
[12:21:46] <pfred1> but through that ancient switch it worked
[12:21:53] <pfred1> so that's what I did
[12:22:15] <pfred1> but since then they've given me a new different router so I'm thinking it I might be able ot hook up to directly
[12:22:32] <pfred1> I've never tried
[12:22:59] <pfred1> but in order to do that I'm going to have to crawl under the house and reroute cables
[12:23:37] <pfred1> I kind of need switches in two places anyways
[12:23:48] <pfred1> it's a mess
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[12:24:25] <pfred1> bbiab
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[12:48:35] <jthornton> me "./somefile"
[12:48:43] <jthornton> debian 9 "bash file not found"
[12:49:00] <jthornton> me "ls says it is there and it green look for yourself"
[12:49:26] <jthornton> debian 9 "bash I said the file is not found I don't care what ls says!"
[12:49:50] <Rab> What are the permissions?
[12:50:25] <jthornton> you mean executable? yes
[12:50:30] <Rab> Also, is somefile a bash script which calls another file that's not found?
[12:51:22] <jthornton> no it's mesaflash odd I copied it from the desktop to my home dir and the permission changed
[12:51:49] <Rab> Try bash ./somefile
[12:53:02] <jthornton> cannot execute a binary file...
[12:53:33] <jthornton> lol works fine in linux mint
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[13:05:19] <pfred1> file somefile
[13:05:34] <pfred1> see what file says about it
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[13:06:27] <pfred1> it may be a script that is not loading the program that runs it
[13:06:33] <pfred1> head somefile
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[13:28:30] <jthornton> just dumps a bunch of funny stuff
[13:28:38] <pfred1> then it is a binary
[13:29:16] <pfred1> there's ways of looking onto those too though
[13:29:50] <pfred1> you can strace it
[13:30:17] <pfred1> strace somefile
[13:30:41] <pfred1> it may tell you what's bombing out then
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[13:31:00] <pfred1> strace is very spammy
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[13:50:37] <jthornton> well it's a debian 9 issue because I copied the file from debian to my usb drive then to this linux mint pc and it runs fine
[13:51:26] <pfred1> yeah but you can probably find out what it is
[13:51:44] <pfred1> Linux has tools for examining what is going on
[13:52:04] <pfred1> you can really go down the rabbit hole in Linux
[13:52:31] <pfred1> right down to digging out hooks in binaries
[13:53:14] <jthornton> why do you think it is a problem with the file?
[13:53:28] <pfred1> it isn't
[13:53:39] <pfred1> but the file is the gateway to what the problem is it is the entry point
[13:54:13] <pfred1> that will lead you to what the issue actually is
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[13:55:09] <pfred1> other than manifesting the problem I don't know how to find problems
[13:56:10] -!- phiscribe_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[13:57:16] <pfred1> although it is interesting to think of another method
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[13:58:06] <pfred1> I still feel like following a trail is the best way to get someplace
[13:58:07] <jthornton> well I sloved it...
[13:58:12] <jthornton> solved even
[13:58:44] <jthornton> I built the file here (32bit) and copied it there (64bit)...
[13:58:51] <pfred1> ah
[13:59:01] <pfred1> so you don't have the compatibility layer?
[13:59:02] * jthornton smacks his forehead with a hammer
[13:59:27] <pfred1> yeah strace would have revealed that
[13:59:38] * jthornton goes back to shoveling dirt
[13:59:56] <pfred1> there would have been a whole bunch of files not found
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[14:00:10] <pfred1> it would have said what file too
[14:00:50] <pfred1> compat files are in another place
[14:01:22] <pfred1> I think they may even have different base names?
[14:01:36] <pfred1> ldd shows missing libs too
[14:02:08] <jthornton> if it is compiled code should not have an dependencies?
[14:02:09] <pfred1> run ldd on the full path to the file wit hthe filename
[14:02:37] <pfred1> ldd /home/myhomedir/myfile
[14:02:52] <pfred1> it'll bomb on all the libs it can't find
[14:05:29] <pfred1> 32 bit libs are different from 64 bit libs
[14:06:48] <pfred1> https://wiki.debian.org
[14:07:54] <pfred1> 64 bit is confusingly called AMD64 and 32 bit is i386
[14:09:44] <pfred1> 32 bit and 64 bit binaries are linked to different libraries
[14:11:32] <pfred1> they're really whole different systems
[14:11:33] <hazzy-lab> jthornton: compiled code absolutely can requires dependencies, that is the whole point of dynamic linking, so you don't have to include everything with each binary
[14:11:59] <pfred1> you can statically link binaries
[14:12:07] <pfred1> but they're memory hogs
[14:12:45] <pfred1> shared objects is the much more common way
[14:12:54] <jthornton> if I want to use mesaflash with my tool do need to include both a 32bit version and a 64bit? https://github.com
[14:13:33] <pfred1> you just need a version you have the libraries for
[14:13:48] <pfred1> or you can build a static version that just runs
[14:14:13] <pfred1> a static version would just run on the hardware I think?
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[14:14:43] <pfred1> well it would need file services from the kernel I suppose
[14:15:32] <pfred1> I haven't messed with static code in a long time now
[14:16:10] <pfred1> there was a time when I felt the need because of something that I was doing
[14:16:59] <pfred1> but that was a very special use case
[14:17:43] <pfred1> I will say this if you ever really want to bork your system up then mess with your libc
[14:17:50] <jthornton> mesaflash is not my program I'm just trying to use it to discover what card is plugged in and what has been flashed
[14:18:08] <jthornton> 99% of what you said went way over my head :(
[14:18:14] <pfred1> you have the source for it though?
[14:18:35] <pfred1> you can even cross compile on systems for other platforms
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[14:18:52] <pfred1> like you can build 32 bit on 64 bit
[14:19:55] <pfred1> they ran 64 bit on Linux first by playing stupid games with crosscompiling before the hardware was even available
[14:20:05] <jthornton> https://github.com
[14:21:03] <pfred1> so you have the source
[14:21:17] <pfred1> now what arch is the target you want to run on?
[14:22:24] <pfred1> your best bet is to just build on the target system then yo ucan't go wrong
[14:22:50] <pfred1> it will Just Work (TM)
[14:23:06] <jthornton> there in lies the problem I don't know what system everyone has...
[14:23:18] * jthornton wanders to menards
[14:23:22] <pfred1> then you'd have to ship both
[14:23:22] <jthornton> be back in a bit
[14:23:53] <pfred1> you should target a low CPU too like a 586
[14:23:55] <jthornton> mesaflash32 and mesaflash64 and pick the right one in python after checking the os
[14:24:17] <jthornton> I have no idea how to do that
[14:24:17] <pfred1> I don't think anyone is running less than a 586 these days
[14:24:31] <pfred1> it is a switch on the build line
[14:24:37] <pfred1> -march I think?
[14:24:56] <pfred1> type gcc -v
[14:25:12] <pfred1> that should spit out all of your default variables
[14:26:22] <pfred1> by default you build for the host but if you're distributing that's not best
[14:26:39] <pfred1> then you have to set your sights lower
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[14:46:35] <roycroft> the bridgeport at the maker space has a 486
[14:48:03] <pfred1> a lot of distros don't support 486 anymore
[14:48:38] <pfred1> if you're still running a 486 you have to expect to be unsupported in this day and age
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[14:48:58] <roycroft> i'm just saying that's what that machine has
[14:49:05] <roycroft> and there are probably quite a few of them out in the field still
[14:49:13] <pfred1> and I'm saying that is beyond a reasonable cut off
[14:49:26] <roycroft> that's not what you originally said
[14:49:34] <roycroft> <pfred1> I don't think anyone is running less than a 586 these days
[14:49:40] <roycroft> i was responding to that
[14:49:55] <pfred1> ah well I'm sure some folks are but they're left out
[14:49:57] <roycroft> i'm not arguing that a 486 should be/must be supported
[14:50:04] <pfred1> I htink they have their systems sorted by now
[14:50:08] <roycroft> i'm saying they're still around
[14:50:56] <pfred1> I remember people making a stink when 486 support was dropped
[14:51:01] <pfred1> that was years ago
[14:51:03] <roycroft> if i got an identical bridgeport i'd probably want to convert it from the boss software to linuxcnc
[14:51:13] <roycroft> but i'd also replace the computer in the process of doing so
[14:51:19] <pfred1> yeah that'd be wise
[14:51:31] <pfred1> you can get something better for about $25
[14:51:59] <pfred1> aliexpress is loaded with old ATOM SBCs today
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[14:52:06] <roycroft> it also has a standard resolution vga display
[14:52:14] <roycroft> which i'd upgrade to a higher resolution touch screen
[14:52:30] <pfred1> they're dirt cheap
[14:52:33] <roycroft> yes
[14:52:37] <roycroft> i have a few
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[14:52:53] <pfred1> and they're way better than a 486 in every respect
[14:52:55] <roycroft> i pick up kiosk touch screens when i find them cheap
[14:53:11] <roycroft> the kind with mounting flanges, so i can easily fit them to a custom enclosure
[14:53:14] <pfred1> well worth the price of admission
[14:54:05] <pfred1> I hate to spend other people's money but at the same time we have to be realistic
[14:56:34] <pfred1> I'm tempted to pick up one of those POS Atoms
[14:56:51] <pfred1> just to clean up my install
[14:57:14] <pfred1> I'm using a thrift store specia lto run my machine that I got for $6 it is still a dual core CPU though
[14:57:43] <pfred1> so no 486
[14:58:47] <pfred1> it's a core
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[14:59:27] <MrHindsight> what kinds of PC's are ending up at Goodwill these days?
[15:00:04] <pfred1> these days nothing
[15:00:08] <MrHindsight> my old PC's are 2-6 core 64b AMD from ~2010
[15:00:12] <pfred1> people got rid ofthem years ago
[15:00:35] <pfred1> but a few years ago PCs were common in thrift stores
[15:00:42] <MrHindsight> I come across old gaming consoles from time to time from the 90's
[15:01:05] <pfred1> I don't see used systems like I used to
[15:01:21] <MrHindsight> pfred1: I'd imagine they were are they got replaced by tablets and smartphones
[15:01:30] <pfred1> that's it
[15:01:32] <MrHindsight> are/as
[15:01:45] <pfred1> the whole desktop market has changed
[15:02:07] <pfred1> now the only people that still have desktops are enthusiasts and they're not likely to get rid of their gear
[15:02:40] <pfred1> well they don't just dispose of it
[15:04:25] <pfred1> the last used system I looked at was at an estate sale and man it was hashed
[15:04:31] <MrHindsight> Goodwill is great for finding suede coats for welding for $3
[15:04:49] <pfred1> the guy let me plug it in and it wouldn't even boot up it was a mess but from what i saw it wasn't worth fooling around with
[15:05:30] <pfred1> he said he pulled it out of his business he was moving or something and that it worked when he last used it
[15:05:54] <pfred1> but it wasn't working anymore
[15:06:02] <pfred1> it was junk!
[15:06:34] <pfred1> I built the system I'm using right now out of "scrattered" parts from China
[15:07:28] <pfred1> I don't know where they get all the junk they sell but they seem to have it
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[15:21:36] <pcw_home> test
[15:22:00] <jthornton> pfred1: my 308 is still running a 386
[15:23:29] <pfred1> jthornton I think you can still target 386 arch with gcc
[15:23:53] <pfred1> that's really dipping low though
[15:24:28] <pfred1> AFAIK all Linux distros target 586 or greater today
[15:24:55] <jthornton> it's running dos 6.22
[15:25:41] <jthornton> great mystery solved so off to put a filter in the water line for the raised beds water system
[15:25:58] <pfred1> it'll have a hard time running an ELF file then
[15:26:31] <pfred1> I wonder if gcc can cross compile for MS-DOS?
[15:28:03] <pfred1> I think that's what DJGPP does?
[15:28:10] <djdelorie> yup
[15:28:14] <pfred1> :)
[15:28:35] <djdelorie> there's an RPM for fedora systems which provides it as a cross-compiler, or you can run it natively on dos
[15:29:02] <djdelorie> IIRC the Borland compilers are free-to-use these days, too.
[15:29:08] <pfred1> how you been?
[15:29:20] <pfred1> someone that knows their way around a compiler
[15:29:25] <djdelorie> busy... http://www.delorie.com
[15:29:56] <pfred1> electric?
[15:30:21] <pfred1> that aluminum?
[15:30:39] <djdelorie> all you guys with wimpy bldc systems in your cnc machines... MY bldc can push 30,000 watts :-)
[15:30:54] <djdelorie> aluminum battery cage, original steel frame, 3d-printed PETG mounting parts for all the bits
[15:31:12] <djdelorie> I just got the front turn signals mounted today, on custom mounts
[15:31:19] <pfred1> I never had much luck TIG welding aluminum well I got it to work once
[15:31:40] <pfred1> then I think the frequency board in my welder messed up?
[15:31:48] <djdelorie> I had a friend to it for me. Custom design, stress modeling, and fabrication.
[15:32:11] <pfred1> well there's this brazing rod for AL that's pretty good it's kind of a solder
[15:32:32] <djdelorie> I want to learn to TIG but can't justify buying the equipment for the rare time I'd need it
[15:32:39] <pfred1> TIG is cool
[15:32:45] <sync> it's not really expensive tho
[15:32:52] <pfred1> the inverter machines are pretty cheap today too
[15:33:04] <djdelorie> "for the rare time I'd need it" and for aluminum you need an AC inverter
[15:33:11] <djdelorie> and I already have a MIG setup
[15:33:25] <djdelorie> and a friend who knows how to weld aluminum ;-)
[15:33:26] <pfred1> I have MIG and TIG
[15:33:30] <pfred1> TIG is still cool
[15:33:53] <pfred1> all I do today is stick weld thoug hwhen I moved i never hooked up with a new gas house
[15:33:54] <JT-Shop> I like to TIG stainless steel
[15:34:12] <sync> yeah, the AC ones are also pretty cheap now
[15:34:14] <sync> and work ok
[15:34:25] <sync> I keep it around just for the occasional need
[15:34:33] <sync> I think I tigged once this year
[15:34:44] <pfred1> but when I had gas I TIGed a lot
[15:35:03] <pfred1> it's great for thin stuff
[15:35:48] <djdelorie> my mig can stitch-weld down to 22ga but that doesn't mean *I* know how to do that ;-)
[15:35:54] <pfred1> I've welded 4-40 washers onto brake line with oxy acetylene though
[15:36:23] <djdelorie> not brazed?
[15:36:32] <pfred1> I wouldn't want to try that with any electric arc process
[15:36:39] <pfred1> nope welded
[15:37:12] <pfred1> brazing can be a bit of a pain at times
[15:37:52] <pfred1> though I've brazed bandsaw blades successfully
[15:38:11] <sync> I really like brazing aluminium
[15:38:18] <pfred1> muggy weld?
[15:39:06] <pfred1> oxy acetylene is my first welding love
[15:39:08] <sync> no, with a regular Al filler
[15:39:13] <sync> not with zinc based alloys
[15:39:36] <pfred1> lot of heat distortion though
[15:41:15] <pfred1> TIG is a lot like gas welding just more concentrated
[15:41:22] <sync> haha djdelorie I have the same ninja rotting in one of my garages
[15:41:35] <djdelorie> I have two :-)
[15:41:59] <pfred1> 10K bikes
[15:42:01] <djdelorie> the other one is still gas, it was an old racing bike. The electric was built from that bike's parts bike
[15:42:08] <pfred1> they're good for about 10K miles then they're done
[15:42:19] <djdelorie> the gas bike has 50k miles on it, the electric had 16k
[15:42:31] <pfred1> wholly 50K!
[15:42:34] <djdelorie> yup
[15:42:39] <pfred1> you rebuild the engine regularly?
[15:42:43] <sync> mine has over 750000km
[15:42:48] <sync> eh -0
[15:42:52] <djdelorie> I got it that way.
[15:42:52] <sync> still runs ok
[15:43:00] <sync> it is slow and heavy tho
[15:43:04] <djdelorie> but I rebuilt the carb and clutch when I got it
[15:43:38] <pfred1> that's incidental that's not mechanical engine wear
[15:44:22] <sync> idk, I have a xbr as well which is a 500cc single and it has over 80000km on it
[15:44:23] <djdelorie> no, that was because (1) it was sitting in a shed for four years, and (2) the clutch was *why* it was sitting ;-)
[15:44:24] <sync> still runs fine
[15:44:24] <pfred1> what's your secret synehetic oil?
[15:45:04] <sync> I always wonder how well the hub motors would perform
[15:45:12] <sync> lots of unsprung mass
[15:45:18] <djdelorie> sync: so far, similar to the gas bike
[15:45:42] <sync> I once rode a mx bike conversion with a hub motor and it sucked big time
[15:46:11] <djdelorie> I don't plan on being agressive with it, but the hub motor let me put a big pack in. The math says 70 mile range at highway speeds.
[15:46:15] <pfred1> yo uweren't popping any wheelies huh?
[15:46:22] <djdelorie> and fewer moving parts to engineer :-)
[15:46:37] <djdelorie> nah. It has low-end torque, but not THAT much.
[15:46:40] <pfred1> we need better batteries
[15:46:44] <sync> that is suprising
[15:46:52] <sync> I would expect it to wheel pretty well
[15:47:05] <sync> especially as you can overload those motors really well
[15:47:24] <djdelorie> I haven't tweaked the controller to use more than the battery's "continuous amps" rating, and the battery moves the CG further forward
[15:47:36] <djdelorie> and I'm too scared to try a wheelie :-)
[15:47:51] <sync> just have your foot on the rear brake
[15:48:16] <djdelorie> always
[15:48:26] <sync> no, always is bad
[15:48:30] <sync> just when you wheel
[15:48:37] <djdelorie> and if I roll completely off the throttle, the regen breaking kicks in too
[15:48:55] <djdelorie> I mean, it's always ready to step on it, not always actually stepping on it
[15:48:58] <sync> that is one of the benefits of an electric bike, you can fully turn off negative torque
[15:49:16] <pfred1> djdelorie so you use 18650 cells right?
[15:49:22] <djdelorie> I had it that way at first. I'm experimenting with it to see where I like it
[15:49:23] <XXCoder> woke up dead
[15:49:29] <XXCoder> in least felt like it lol
[15:49:29] <djdelorie> no, prismatic
[15:49:37] <sync> yeah calb prismatic
[15:50:05] <djdelorie> 36 of these: http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com
[15:50:09] <sync> I thought about getting one of those remy hvh catridges and cram it into some poor old mx bike
[15:50:17] <djdelorie> not as weight efficient, but no spot welding required
[15:50:22] <pfred1> hmm hmm something different
[15:50:47] <pfred1> everyone seems to use billions of those 18650s
[15:51:40] <pfred1> isn't that what Tesla cars use?
[15:52:05] <djdelorie> the 18650's use a chemistry that's one of the most space/weight efficient
[15:52:34] <pfred1> plus you can always vape
[15:53:28] <sync> I also rode the electric KTM, unfortunately it sucks as well :/
[15:53:29] <pfred1> there are so many counterfeit 18650s out there now
[15:55:01] <flyback> djdelorie, but their longevity sucks ass
[15:55:10] <flyback> lithium-iron-phosphate is betteer
[15:55:14] <flyback> but not as dense
[15:55:29] <pfred1> it amazes me how poor battery tech is today
[15:55:31] <flyback> so ion is probably beter for cars if you can manage the safety
[15:55:39] <flyback> but not ok for planes like that one BONEing used
[15:55:41] <flyback> dumbfucks
[15:55:50] <flyback> ion in a car you can pull over and get out
[15:55:57] <flyback> if you have a lithium fire in a plane, you are kinda fucked
[15:56:04] <pfred1> you can get out of planes too
[15:56:05] <roycroft> battery science is hard
[15:56:08] <pfred1> just have a parachute
[15:56:11] <roycroft> battery engineering harder
[15:56:15] <flyback> pfred1, not in a passenger one
[15:56:39] <djdelorie> flyback: are you saying I chose wisely, or poorly? ;-)
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[15:56:58] <flyback> no I am just saying be aware of trade offs between things
[15:57:12] <pfred1> I've been looking at all the homebrew tab spot welders
[15:57:18] <flyback> for instance while iron phophate lithium is less dense and lower starting voltage
[15:57:19] * roycroft just mowed over an underground wasp nest and is currently in a fair amount of pain
[15:57:21] <flyback> after 6 months
[15:57:26] <flyback> ion sheds 20% runtime
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[15:57:34] <pfred1> spot welding tabs onto 18650s seems to be a hobby unto itself
[15:57:36] <flyback> iron phosphate mabye 0.000000000000000020%
[15:57:42] <djdelorie> my cells claim 2000 cycles, that's at least another 150k miles...
[15:57:46] <flyback> nice
[15:57:49] <flyback> good cells then
[15:57:57] <djdelorie> well, good *claims* at least
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[15:58:12] <flyback> i would still use iron phosphate cells for some longenity projects
[15:58:16] <flyback> like a car lowjack etc
[15:59:32] <pfred1> djdelorie how long does it take you to charge your bike up?
[15:59:44] <pfred1> and can you use the recharging stations?
[15:59:46] <djdelorie> 5 hours at 120vac
[16:00:00] <djdelorie> I could if I buy the right jack, but that adds $400 to the price tag
[16:00:11] <djdelorie> and at 240vac it's still 2.5 hours sitting there charging
[16:00:15] <pfred1> yeah but it's range and power
[16:00:33] <pfred1> they got loads of those stations here now and no one uses them
[16:00:39] <djdelorie> that's what cars are for :-)
[16:00:46] <flyback> you should make a small chawsaw engine powered generator
[16:00:51] <pfred1> I'm waiting for homeless people to start using the electrcity
[16:01:16] <flyback> for emergency charging, getting home
[16:01:26] <flyback> actually hmm
[16:01:30] <pfred1> yeah I'd be forever worried about running out of power
[16:01:39] <djdelorie> got to go... back tomorrow :-)
[16:01:41] <flyback> that might be a good application for disposable aluminum air batteries
[16:01:52] <flyback> as a backup power source for a e-bike
[16:02:05] <flyback> since they have the highest energy density
[16:02:28] <pfred1> run into a drug store gimmie all the batteries you got!
[16:02:57] <pfred1> when the automobile was first introduced that's how they got fuel at drug stores
[16:03:09] <flyback> yeah I know
[16:03:23] <pfred1> there were no gas stations
[16:03:49] <pfred1> so we're going back there again
[16:04:55] <pfred1> I'd think with the need we'd come up with some decent battery tech
[16:05:23] <flyback> or replace batteries with supercaps eventually
[16:05:29] <pfred1> portable electricity is everywhere today
[16:05:37] <pfred1> literally in everyone's pockets
[16:05:48] <jthornton> pfred1: thanks for trying to figure out how I screwed up
[16:06:17] <pfred1> jthornton sure no problem
[16:06:28] <pfred1> I know how Linux can be
[16:06:46] <XXCoder> olinux allows us to shoot foot
[16:06:55] <pfred1> computers were just made to frustrate folks
[16:07:19] <jthornton> I agree
[16:07:45] <pfred1> computers are the ultimate literal idiot savant
[16:07:54] <XXCoder> yep!
[16:07:57] <pfred1> if yo udon't tell it exactly right it doesn't work
[16:08:08] <XXCoder> or work in wrong way. thats worse
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[16:09:03] <XXCoder> power flicker
[16:09:07] <pfred1> Linux has a few ways of teasing clues out of it though
[16:09:12] <XXCoder> looks like electrics system dont like water
[16:09:20] <XXCoder> first rain after months
[16:09:34] <pfred1> yeah I've had rain issues with electric here this year
[16:09:50] <pfred1> I had a GFCI circuit trip off on me
[16:10:09] <pfred1> so I thought it was the wire i ran out to the pool pump
[16:10:20] <pfred1> I go taking that all apart and testing it out and I can't find anything
[16:10:40] <pfred1> turns out it was some wire I don't know where it goes or what it does
[16:11:05] <pfred1> I think it is for this one security light o nthe side of hte house that i never knew how to turn on
[16:11:27] <pfred1> so I just disconnected it and left it that way
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[16:16:19] <XXCoder> lol
[16:16:34] <XXCoder> what if its sumppump for that side of house
[16:16:45] <pfred1> for a pool
[16:20:05] <XXCoder> fun
[16:20:16] <XXCoder> you'll have to hunt it down evenually
[16:20:20] <pfred1> not this year i never opned it
[16:20:28] <pfred1> nah the power is disconnected
[16:20:43] <pfred1> so far I'm not missing anything
[16:21:05] <pfred1> if the day comes where I feel a loss then I'll deal with it
[16:21:30] <pfred1> whoever did the electric on this house they weren't the best
[16:21:44] <XXCoder> yeah? that sucks
[16:21:45] <pfred1> they didn't use outside boxes for all outside things
[16:21:58] <XXCoder> its same here, wiring is pretty shoddy
[16:22:07] <XXCoder> and they used 10 amp wires for 1000w microwave.
[16:22:09] <pfred1> I replaced one on a spotlight it was one of those plastic stud boxes they had hanging under an eave
[16:22:21] <pfred1> and it was a pain
[16:22:33] <XXCoder> we had to move it to 15amp one so theres wire coming out of cabinet to side of counter plug
[16:22:33] <pfred1> digging that box out and putting a real outdoor box in there
[16:22:56] <pfred1> oh I had this total nightmare in the kitchen when I relocated a ceiling fixture
[16:23:11] <pfred1> I figured it'll be easy all I have to do is move a box
[16:23:34] <pfred1> yeah half the electric in the whole kitchen went through that one box
[16:24:18] <pfred1> I managed to do it but it took hours longer than I thought it would
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[16:26:08] <pfred1> sometimes how i imagine a job is going to be and how it ends up being are two different things
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[16:26:33] <pfred1> leap before you look
[16:26:35] <XXCoder> yeesh
[16:26:55] <XXCoder> we added 2 plugs when we had chance when we redid downstairs
[16:27:25] <pfred1> plugs reminds me i bought another power strip at a yard sale today I forgot to get it out of the car too
[16:27:48] <pfred1> brb
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[16:29:16] <pfred1> I love me some power strips
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[16:29:39] <pfred1> I use them like they're water
[16:31:20] <XXCoder> lol as long as you dont make a "river" with em
[16:31:27] <XXCoder> connecting strips to strips isnt good
[16:31:48] <pfred1> no usually not
[16:32:52] <pfred1> I tend to only use one thing on a strip at a time too but I don't like plugging stuff in to use it or they're just light loads
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[17:20:14] * Loetmichel just "floored" the convertible home from my sister (200km). Its close to midnight, the car is close to 20 years old, i had half a pack of cigarettes and a full tank and was wearing sunglasses while the canopy was open... 205kph is fun at 15°C temperature outside ;) WHAT a time to be alive!
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[17:25:04] <DaViruz> Loetmichel: but was it dark?
[17:25:06] <DaViruz> :)
[17:25:54] <Loetmichel> indeed ;)
[17:28:05] <pfred1> Loetmichel has it been a bit hot lately?
[17:31:12] <Loetmichel> pfred1: lately, yes. Why?
[17:31:39] <pfred1> I watch one German bloke on YouTube and he's been melting lately
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[17:33:30] <fragalot> Hi
[17:34:15] <XXCoder> finally cool here yay
[17:34:33] <fragalot> indeed, I have returned.
[17:34:38] <XXCoder> tues will be hottest of week at 87f, not too bad compared to last week
[17:34:54] <fragalot> I may have found a shaublin 13 in absolutely MINT condition
[17:35:25] <pfred1> yeah it's bene the hottest it's been here lately
[17:35:39] <XXCoder> and hopefully not mint price?
[17:35:45] <pfred1> pretty soon it'll be frezing again
[17:35:50] <fragalot> XXCoder: €7k4
[17:35:55] <fragalot> :/
[17:36:07] <pfred1> then I can just leave my PC in performance CPU mode all the time
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[17:37:03] <{HD}> How do I correctly tension drive belts on a little XY plotter?
[17:37:06] <Loetmichel> pfred1: its the second "colder" night in the last 3 weeks or so ;)
[17:37:51] <XXCoder> {HD}: iirc you use "tone" when you pluck it to know if its correctly torsoned
[17:37:58] <XXCoder> being deaf I cant explain more sadly lol
[17:38:50] <{HD}> XXCoder: wow, guess I will look up what frequency it should pluck at.
[17:39:00] <XXCoder> from what i figure, good range is not so loose you have backlash, but not so tight it have problems moving
[17:39:04] <XXCoder> wish can help more
[17:39:44] <XXCoder> watch out for steaching it enough that belt tooth gaps "grows"
[17:40:20] <{HD}> Belts should just come with a spring that would automatically calibrate it.
[17:40:32] <fragalot> {HD}: that adds backlash
[17:40:43] <{HD}> Oh geeze!
[17:42:02] <Crom_> Wold around?
[17:42:10] <Crom_> Wolf around?
[17:42:18] <Wolf__> maybe
[17:42:25] <Loetmichel> fragalot: it doesent if the spring tension is outside the drive torque window ;)
[17:42:26] <Crom_> on smoothieware alpha_min_endstop 1.24! # I have a PNP inductive hooked to this. When active it shorts to ground. is this right?
[17:42:28] <pfred1> a wolf with a tail!
[17:42:48] <Wolf__> no, wrong wolf =P
[17:42:48] <fragalot> Loetmichel: Very true.
[17:42:55] <Crom_> k
[17:44:19] <Wolf__> but your PNP just treat it as a normally open type switch
[17:45:41] <fragalot> Crom_: PNP = active shorts to +24V, NPN = active shorts to GND
[17:46:52] <Wolf__> oh doh ^
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[17:47:40] <Wolf__> been too long since I played with inductive…
[17:47:51] <fragalot> doesn't matter if it's inductive or something else :P
[17:47:55] <fragalot> NPN is always NPN
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[17:47:59] <Wolf__> yup
[17:48:17] <pfred1> inductive matters on flyback
[17:48:38] <fragalot> pfred1: not if it's just an inductive SENSOR
[17:48:48] <Wolf__> just a switch
[17:49:13] <pfred1> all I'm saying is switched inductors spike voltage
[17:49:24] <pfred1> that's what they do
[17:49:53] <pfred1> the whole electromotive force thing
[17:49:55] <fragalot> indeed.
[17:50:08] <fragalot> current wants to keep flowing and will blow anything up that gets in it's way
[17:50:16] <pfred1> when that field collpases it goes somewhere
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[17:50:42] <pfred1> it backfeeds whatever is connected to it
[17:53:05] <pfred1> a long time ago before I understood it I used to blow up a lot of mosfets
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[17:53:31] <pfred1> but i was using a pretty big coil at the time
[17:53:56] <pfred1> an ignition coil out of a car actually
[17:54:53] <pfred1> I wanted to see just how big a spark I could get out of a 9 Volt battery
[17:55:34] <Crom_> ugh, trying to get my home switches working on my Sieg X2 and smoothieboard
[17:56:40] <pfred1> Crom_ a lot of electronics is about managing the flow of current
[17:57:00] <pfred1> rather carefully
[17:57:17] <pfred1> because too much current lets the magic smoke out
[17:58:12] <pfred1> not burning up stuff is at least half the battle
[17:59:42] <pfred1> because up until something does burn up you're still in the game as far as trying goes
[18:01:15] <Wolf__> home/endstops are pretty simple http://smoothieware.org
[18:02:00] <pfred1> their don't goes right to what I was talking about
[18:02:54] <pfred1> how come they don't have a schematic?
[18:03:39] <Wolf__> its up some on that page
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[18:04:36] <pfred1> the top image on that page is not loading for me
[18:05:45] <Wolf__> same here, but its only Gnd, signal pin, +5V
[18:05:50] <pfred1> they don't t really have an inductive pickup with a transistor schematic that I see either
[18:06:34] <Wolf__> same as Lcnc you use whatever type switch you want long as the signal pin sees whats expected
[18:07:21] <Wolf__> be it self contained inductive switch, optical, halls whatever…
[18:07:33] <Wolf__> or just mechanical
[18:08:23] <pfred1> you can't treat a transistor just like it is a mechanical switch though can you?
[18:08:42] <pfred1> transistors are a bit more sensitive to current at their bases
[18:09:11] <Wolf__> I dont know EE stuff so no clue here
[18:09:24] <pfred1> I'm no EE grad myself
[18:09:37] <pfred1> though i have used transistors from time to time
[18:10:28] <pfred1> it is generally agreed that a small base to emitter current is used to pass a larger collector emitter current
[18:11:47] <pfred1> Crom_ what transistors do you have? like to they have a number?
[18:12:04] <XXCoder> dammit, washer coupler didnt arrive
[18:12:04] <pfred1> say 2N3906
[18:12:08] <Wolf__> its probably something like https://www.automationdirect.com(18mm)/PBK-AP-1H
[18:12:38] <pfred1> that is a small signal PNP transistor if memory serves me
[18:13:48] <Wolf__> which IIRC I used all NPN on my cnc stuff
[18:14:15] <pfred1> PNP is actually a bit easier to do positive logic with I think?
[18:14:51] <pfred1> it's been a while since I've done any transistor logic stuff
[18:14:56] <pfred1> a long while
[18:15:08] <XXCoder> P != NP
[18:15:10] <Wolf__> except almost all end stop and home switch setups are GND triggers
[18:16:06] <Wolf__> least on most of the stuff I have messed with
[18:16:42] <XXCoder> pretty amazed that nobody still could not prove P=NP or N!=NP
[18:17:26] <pfred1> P & N in transistors stands for doped regions charges and holes
[18:17:59] <XXCoder> I know, just was thinking off in tangent
[18:18:26] <pfred1> I never really understood the whole migration region deal I just take it on faith that it works
[18:19:33] <pfred1> two of the guys that made the first transistor lived in my home town when they did their work
[18:19:45] <pfred1> Bratton and Bardeen
[18:19:47] <XXCoder> nice
[18:19:58] <pfred1> I grew up next door to bell Labs
[18:20:27] <pfred1> dennis ritchie grew up in my home town too
[18:20:32] <XXCoder> its amazing sometimes that some stuff has such a humble beginning. goodamn arhram bell was trying to invent hearing aid for his deaf wife when he invented phone
[18:21:40] <pfred1> deaf women are hard to live with so I can understand his motivations there
[18:22:01] <pfred1> they can be rather selectively deaf a lot it seems
[18:22:19] <XXCoder> wonderful, ableism + mygonstic
[18:22:49] <pfred1> hey he's the one that did the work
[18:24:32] <Wolf__> Crom_: what part number on the switches you are tying to use?
[18:25:35] <pfred1> this was one of the last circuits I whipped up with a transistor it was in 2012 https://www.instructables.com
[18:27:21] <pfred1> the cap across the zener was my own invention
[18:27:37] <pfred1> it adds hystersis to the circuit
[18:27:47] <pfred1> so it doesn't just switch on and off
[18:29:33] <XXCoder> https://www.bbc.co.uk "Your mom said I'm big enough"
[18:29:55] <XXCoder> here it would be a minor hill
[18:30:52] <pfred1> I guess the pile of rocks puts it over the top?
[18:31:00] <XXCoder> lol
[18:31:16] <XXCoder> apparently old way of surveying heights was inaccurate
[18:31:16] <pfred1> I've actually read about that before
[18:31:27] <XXCoder> they did it again and its just over mountain defintion height
[18:32:02] <pfred1> I grew up in a hilly place and yeah that would barely be a bump in the road
[18:32:33] <XXCoder> think they are on near peak, so not much height left. but yeah it dont evem have snow
[18:32:38] <pfred1> I guess it was called the Watchung mountain range though
[18:33:06] <pfred1> but it wasn't like the swiss alps or anything like that
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[18:33:22] <pfred1> we still had some pretty nasty grades in places
[18:34:14] <pfred1> I remember whe nI was a kid I was bicycling with a few other kids to an arcade and one kid lost his brakes going down a hill
[18:34:25] <pfred1> man he was flying
[18:34:54] <XXCoder> lol that happened to me, and as bonus I was almost clocked by front brake
[18:35:11] <pfred1> he didn't get hurt so it was pretty funny
[18:35:22] <XXCoder> it hit my hair and not my head its that close
[18:35:25] <pfred1> but it was all he could do to stay on that road
[18:35:38] <XXCoder> and it almost went in between wheel wires
[18:35:59] <XXCoder> thankfully it didnt, I had to grind away on my shoes slowing down as it was around 40 degrees slope
[18:36:07] <pfred1> there were hills where we could hit 60 MPH going down them
[18:36:53] <pfred1> like the top of Summit ave if you pedaled until you stripped out you'd really be going coasting then
[18:37:31] <pfred1> that road was pretty straight so going fast on it wasn't so bad
[18:37:44] <pfred1> the road where that kid lost his brakes wasn't straight
[18:38:50] <XXCoder> ow heh
[18:40:05] <pfred1> this was the road we were on https://www.google.com
[18:40:43] <XXCoder> wow finally see the new sphere map
[18:41:34] <pfred1> follow that road down a bit in street view
[18:41:50] <pfred1> it gets a little hairy
[18:45:21] <XXCoder> fun
[18:45:46] <pfred1> yeah it's a road where if you have brakes on a bicycle everyone uses them
[18:46:05] <pfred1> but poor Scott that day lost his
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[18:46:26] <XXCoder> I had converted my bicycle to direct drive when I was a kid
[18:46:29] <XXCoder> hell of a lot fun
[18:46:37] <XXCoder> I also had iron legs back then
[18:46:40] <pfred1> we never did that
[18:46:51] <pfred1> oh you mean a fixie?
[18:47:06] <XXCoder> well sorta, I couldnt make it true fixed
[18:47:12] <XXCoder> but only one gear
[18:47:23] <pfred1> when I was young we stayed in top gear a lot
[18:47:57] <pfred1> today I htink I
[18:48:12] <pfred1> today I think I'd stroke out if I tried to climb some of them hills
[18:48:26] <Wolf__> today you look at e-bikes =P
[18:49:18] <pfred1> or I'd be in the bottom gear of my Trek touring bike standing up
[18:49:40] <Wolf__> I need to take my bike out more often
[18:49:50] <XXCoder> lol yeah I would probably die when I try go up 45 degree+ hill with single gear
[18:49:50] <pfred1> I keep thinking about it
[18:49:59] <XXCoder> I used to do it almost daily
[18:50:05] <pfred1> we had no 45 degree hills i don't think
[18:50:18] <pfred1> a couple steep grades though
[18:50:18] <XXCoder> I lived at calfornia that time, hella hills there
[18:50:19] <robotustra> :)
[18:50:33] <pfred1> like the High St. bridge
[18:50:49] <XXCoder> I thought it was sharpest hills ever till I found one thats around 50 degrees when I was driving home lol
[18:50:53] <XXCoder> glad my van could take it
[18:51:05] <Wolf__> https://i.imgur.com all rocks and roots and hills here
[18:51:08] <pfred1> 50 degrees is a wall
[18:51:24] <XXCoder> it sure looked like one.
[18:51:40] <Wolf__> https://i.imgur.com
[18:51:55] <pfred1> no rocks or hills where I live now
[18:52:30] <pfred1> traveling on the flat ain't easy though you never get to coast and take a break
[18:52:32] * robotustra : plastic toys listen to Rammstein https://imgur.com
[18:52:33] <XXCoder> Wolf__: dang
[18:52:48] <XXCoder> is that from some tool you have?
[18:53:02] <Wolf__> yeah, phone app
[18:53:16] <XXCoder> lol pfred1 that reminds me, once I was bicycling flat surface, but I was getting tired at twice the normal rate
[18:53:35] <XXCoder> finally there was just little hills, then wait I'm halfway up very high hill?
[18:53:40] <pfred1> XXCoder it is pretty draining to travel on flat
[18:54:00] <XXCoder> apparently I wasnt traveling on flat road, it was inclined maybe 15 degrees
[18:54:07] <XXCoder> so im working harder
[18:54:12] <pfred1> you don't have any good coasting to even look forward to
[18:54:28] <XXCoder> return wooow I coasted for 10 miles without single stroke
[18:54:46] <XXCoder> then finally normal bicycling for last couple miles
[18:54:58] <Wolf__> I try to plan for downhill back to my car lol
[18:55:13] <XXCoder> man I miss my old favorite bicycle trail loop
[18:55:35] <XXCoder> it had one nasty hill near start, then its easy most of it
[18:56:04] <XXCoder> Wolf__: what name of app?
[18:56:42] <XXCoder> is there cheap source of gears? my bicycle rear gears is shot from way too many miles on it
[18:57:36] <pfred1> you mean a cassette or oh what the hell did they used to call them?
[18:57:43] <MrHindsight> besides China and home CNC?
[18:57:57] <XXCoder> dunno, its cone of different sizes gears
[18:57:59] <MrHindsight> bike bone yard
[18:58:08] <pfred1> yeah I thnk you mean the cassette
[18:58:34] <pfred1> there used to be another name for them years ago like freewheel?
[18:58:41] <Wolf__> XXCoder: I think that was the Strava app
[18:58:43] <pfred1> but I can't even remember now
[18:58:49] <MrHindsight> bike gears on the rear
[18:59:17] <Wolf__> free wheel hub is what the cassette goes on
[18:59:24] <pfred1> cluster
[19:00:19] <pfred1> yeah you're better off just getting a whole new one I think unless you have campy gear or something
[19:00:23] <Wolf__> I bought a used bike https://i.imgur.com and totally over hauled it, new BB, crank, 10x cassette, new hydro brakes...
[19:00:29] <{HD}> Everytime I go into a circle pass it overshoots a ‘squeek’... https://i.imgur.com
[19:00:50] <pfred1> here every other year a town by me auctions off the bikes they end up with and they sell bikes for $5 a piece
[19:01:06] <pfred1> it is a beach town so they end up with hundreds of bicycles
[19:01:30] <pfred1> it takes them hours selling them a couple a minute
[19:01:31] <XXCoder> pfred1: not too sure what my plan is, I barely have time as it is. I want to just do couple miles each weekend
[19:01:41] <XXCoder> I doubt I can do 50 mile a weekend like I used to.
[19:01:54] <{HD}> Maybe an Acceleration setting?
[19:02:19] <XXCoder> is your circles really a circle?
[19:02:26] <XXCoder> picture is bit blurry so harder to tell
[19:02:29] <pfred1> wow the bicycle warehouse is still a thing
[19:02:42] <Wolf__> XXCoder: https://www.jensonusa.com
[19:03:01] <XXCoder> lol bicycle is just $120 when I boight it
[19:03:30] <pfred1> I only have 2 bikes now one I got for free
[19:03:39] <XXCoder> {HD}: if I recall you want acceration higher than max speed
[19:03:43] <pfred1> the other one I bought used for $50
[19:03:50] <MrHindsight> around here there are lots of bike shops with used parts
[19:03:59] <pfred1> but it is like a $1,200 bike
[19:03:59] <{HD}> XXCoder: really!? Wow
[19:04:00] <XXCoder> but I probably am misremembering
[19:04:06] <XXCoder> guys?
[19:04:09] <{HD}> XXCoder: doh!
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[19:04:32] <Wolf__> can get new take off bike parts on ebay as well
[19:04:42] <MrHindsight> there are also shops with CF everything with aerospace pricing
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[19:04:51] <robotustra> I have no idea where to ride by bike. I worry that I'll ride by bike without reason I could be arrested for loitering.
[19:04:57] <XXCoder> https://forum.linuxcnc.org {HD}
[19:05:03] <pfred1> I have a vintage Nishiki frame i want to build up with some parts i have from an old bike that I wrecked
[19:05:07] <Wolf__> thats how I rebuilt that jamis
[19:05:19] <MrHindsight> robotustra: do they shoot you for that and ask questions later?
[19:05:29] <XXCoder> mines very cheap alum bicycle lol a hyrid
[19:05:38] <XXCoder> half street half mountain bicycle
[19:05:41] <robotustra> MrHindsight, canadian police could :)
[19:05:58] <MrHindsight> robotustra: at least they are friendly about it there
[19:06:10] <MrHindsight> down here they shoot and are not friendly
[19:06:45] <Wolf__> XXCoder: as long as the frame is good, usually the cost diff on bikes is the components
[19:07:07] <pfred1> I'm telling ya $5 a bicycle
[19:07:15] <pfred1> they got some really nice ones too
[19:07:16] <MrHindsight> politely shot vs belligerent shooting
[19:07:16] <robotustra> yeah, police in here is not agressive
[19:07:17] <XXCoder> walmart bicycle if I recall right. it was well before my refusal to buy there again
[19:07:28] <Wolf__> lol
[19:07:28] <pfred1> walmart has nice bikes
[19:07:41] <pfred1> for what the parts would cost yo uthey're great deals
[19:07:42] <Wolf__> will be ok for gravel trail stuff
[19:07:51] <XXCoder> wouldnt know, havent went there for over 10 years
[19:08:28] <MrHindsight> bikes around here were treated like public property even if secured with cable or chains
[19:08:39] <pfred1> come come now not shopping at Walmart is unamerican
[19:08:44] <Wolf__> same here MrHindsight
[19:08:57] <{HD}> XXCoder I am running 500mm/min feed and 100mm/sec/sec
[19:09:14] <Wolf__> one guy had his $3000 bike stolen off his truck while eating lunch a few weeks ago
[19:09:17] <{HD}> Would that cause it?
[19:09:18] <pfred1> {HD} what's that in English?
[19:09:26] <MrHindsight> now they mostly have rent-a-bikes that nobody wants to steal
[19:09:40] <XXCoder> MrHindsight: I put ugly on my biccyle
[19:09:44] <XXCoder> easy enough
[19:10:05] <pfred1> only 20IPM?
[19:10:09] <MrHindsight> my bikes all self destruct if ridden improperly
[19:10:26] <pfred1> I guess that's what i cut at a lot
[19:11:27] <{HD}> pfred1: its a laser plotter so...more about depth of burn...
[19:11:36] <pfred1> ah feel the Bern
[19:11:58] <MrHindsight> no single payer healthcare for you!
[19:12:07] <pfred1> I've thought about getting a laser for my machine
[19:12:11] <Wolf__> {HD}: have to calibrated the step distance yet?
[19:12:28] <{HD}> Wolf__: yep.
[19:12:34] <pfred1> how many Watts do you have?
[19:13:08] <MrHindsight> anyone have an electric bike?
[19:13:15] <{HD}> 80steps per/mm its a 5w maybe 5.5
[19:13:28] <pfred1> so like a diode then
[19:13:41] <Wolf__> I looked at electric bikes some, ended up ordering a one wheel instead
[19:13:45] <{HD}> Its not a co2 laser
[19:13:52] <pfred1> no 40W CO2 job
[19:13:54] <pfred1> right
[19:14:07] <pfred1> those are expensive to run
[19:14:09] <MrHindsight> around here they are very not into electric vehicles unless it's a status symbol (Tesla)
[19:14:15] <pfred1> the tubes don't last forever
[19:14:26] <MrHindsight> they don't even like ethanol in their gas
[19:14:30] <pfred1> in fact they usually don't last a year
[19:14:41] <XXCoder> always wanted a laser but never really saw reason to get one
[19:14:54] <pfred1> XXCoder because they're cool
[19:14:57] <MrHindsight> RF laser tube for the win
[19:15:13] <pfred1> whe nI was in grade school the geeks from the labs came to my school and put on a presentation about lasers
[19:15:19] <Wolf__> {HD}: keep messing with it, should be able to get it engraving well https://i.imgur.com I got this janky thing working
[19:15:21] <XXCoder> pfred1: it doesnt help that im afraid of being blinded. even if I wear googles when its on at all time
[19:15:22] <pfred1> they were hilarious
[19:15:35] <pfred1> this was like the early 70s
[19:15:41] <XXCoder> Wolf__: what power is that?
[19:15:47] <Wolf__> 2.5w
[19:15:55] <XXCoder> it can cut wood with that?
[19:16:13] <MrHindsight> https://www.alibaba.com
[19:16:14] <Wolf__> if its 1mm or less maybe
[19:16:25] <pfred1> XXCoder laser or no laser I'm slowly going blind anyways
[19:16:57] <{HD}> Wolf__: nice! I will remember who to ask for help now.
[19:17:05] <XXCoder> glumca or something like umm heinseberg? or is that one stool issues one hm
[19:17:05] <Wolf__> https://i.imgur.com
[19:17:32] <XXCoder> Wolf__: cool though, do you just change it to mill to mill holes?
[19:17:59] <pfred1> XXCoder wit hthe big lasers I think the bigger hazard is not electrocuting yourself with it
[19:18:01] <Wolf__> {HD}: I actually have no idea what i’m doing, but that laser is fully scratch built 3d printed parts lol
[19:18:06] <MrHindsight> 450nm?
[19:18:24] <pfred1> they have some serious PSUs
[19:18:27] <MrHindsight> ah ok 2.5W 450nm
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[19:18:31] <Wolf__> XXCoder: just to play with, mark wood and learning the software
[19:18:35] <XXCoder> nice
[19:18:53] <XXCoder> you could do 4th axis and make some really nice engraved wood light bases
[19:19:00] <pfred1> I pen plot a lot with my machine
[19:19:08] <MrHindsight> you can SLS dark plastic parts with that
[19:20:04] <Wolf__> true
[19:20:13] <MrHindsight> https://www.amazon.com
[19:20:29] <{HD}> Sls?
[19:20:38] <XXCoder> "Advertised as 2.5W unit. Actual listed power based on model number on laser is 1.6W. False advertising"
[19:20:52] <MrHindsight> https://en.wikipedia.org
[19:20:53] <pfred1> 2.5 Chinese Watts
[19:21:02] <MrHindsight> {HD}: ^^^
[19:21:05] <XXCoder> indeed
[19:21:21] <pfred1> I htink they scale everything there by at least 60%
[19:21:28] <Wolf__> mine came from ail so its probably worse lol
[19:21:59] <pfred1> ali? I love my ali junk
[19:22:09] <{HD}> Neat
[19:22:14] <pfred1> come to think about it I have to go check my mail I have an order coming
[19:22:15] <Wolf__> i really wanted to build a 100w reci co2
[19:22:35] <{HD}> All right back to the dungeon for me. I’m going to go just try really high settings and really low settings and see what the differences are.
[19:25:20] <Wolf__> https://www.aliexpress.com I went for the cheapest i could find at the time when I ordered lol
[19:29:58] <{HD}> My camera can’t focus tighten up in order to illustrate the issue I’m having.
[19:30:19] <{HD}> Um... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[19:30:34] <Wolf__> over shoot on curves?
[19:31:11] <{HD}> Wolf__: yea! Did you see my pic ^^
[19:32:04] <Wolf__> yeah I did
[19:32:38] <Wolf__> too many variables lol, but I would try less speed
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[19:35:47] <MrHindsight> https://www.aliexpress.com YAG me with a laser
[19:36:31] <XXCoder> lol. Geology rocks but geography is where its at.
[19:37:22] <MrHindsight> https://www.aliexpress.com
[19:37:22] <{HD}> I found my issue!… I think. I’ll explain after I eat dinner.
[19:37:49] <XXCoder> hey remeber this channel rule, {HD} . if you menion dinner you must share it with all of us
[19:38:02] <MrHindsight> pizza
[19:38:12] <XXCoder> (%> (%> (%> (%> (%> (%> (%>
[19:38:27] <XXCoder> some beers with it c[_] c[_] c[_] c[_] c[_] c[_] c[_] c[_] c[_] c[_] c[_] c[_] c[_] c[_] c[_]
[19:38:41] <Wolf__> I wish I knew enough to build my own YAG galvo setup
[19:38:54] <MrHindsight> best ascii meal I've had in a while
[19:39:24] <XXCoder> youre welcome
[19:39:33] <MrHindsight> Wolf__: some galvos still have analog inputs, so you drive them like a servo
[19:40:30] <XXCoder> I wanted to try use galvos to make a fake vector screen
[19:40:37] <XXCoder> so it could replace old vector screen
[19:40:43] <XXCoder> but im no electrician sadly
[19:41:01] <XXCoder> if one of you guys do a kickstarter on it, give me fully functional one for idea
[19:41:50] <Wolf__> out side of my current skill sets
[19:42:04] <pfred1> start small and build up
[19:43:29] <MrHindsight> https://postimg.cc 30w RF CO2 laser and analog galvo head
[19:45:04] <MrHindsight> XXCoder: what size display?
[19:45:24] <XXCoder> honestly dunno
[19:45:36] <XXCoder> im sure same system can drive whatever size
[19:45:42] <MrHindsight> how about an old oscilloscope?
[19:45:42] <XXCoder> as long as its up to speed
[19:46:00] <XXCoder> honestly I have no usercase besides "it'd be cool of.."
[19:46:25] <MrHindsight> https://www.youtube.com
[19:46:28] <XXCoder> because vector displays is not being made anymore, some of stuff cant be used as efefctively
[19:46:37] <MrHindsight> crt vector graphics display
[19:46:52] <pfred1> Temptest
[19:47:13] <XXCoder> yeah CRT is also dying. I was thinking maybe fake it by using laser and glow screen to do fadeout just like real display
[19:47:18] <XXCoder> for POV
[19:47:18] <pfred1> that was a sick vector graphics game
[19:48:21] <MrHindsight> I see CRT monitors at Good Will
[19:48:56] <pfred1> https://www.youtube.com
[19:49:10] <MrHindsight> https://www.ebay.com
[19:49:50] <MrHindsight> https://www.ebay.com
[19:49:51] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com combine that with board you linked to MrHindsight
[19:50:08] <XXCoder> and we got a fixing for making fake vector montiors, just need screen
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[20:02:00] <{HD}> So! The gcode reverses directions on the last pass! So I just need to figure out how to get flatcam to output all in one direction.
[20:03:09] <Wolf__> so its causing backlash to show on last pass?
[20:03:38] <{HD}> Backlash or deceleration deviation
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[20:10:02] <{HD}> So do I try to modify the gcode generation or keep messing with settings or evaluating backlash...?
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[20:13:07] <Wolf__> I would work on getting the backlash out of it first, may need to play with acceleration and speed depending on how much moving mass you have in the machine
[20:14:21] <{HD}> Its super light. Just the laser...When testing backlash I don’t see any...
[20:16:29] <pfred1> ug now i have to uninstall all of that nonsense
[20:17:06] <pfred1> can't have just one python can we?
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[20:43:53] <{HD}> I just did a run at extremely slow speed! And I still have the artifact. I do not see any backlash in my system.
[20:44:08] <{HD}> I also don’t see any options in “flat cam“ to make all passes clockwise
[20:47:57] <Wolf__> might be the cam output then
[20:56:38] <{HD}> Wolf__: what do you use?
[20:56:57] <Wolf__> using laser web right now
[20:57:00] <{HD}> Currently I am using Gerber files to gen gcode for PCBs.
[20:57:13] <Wolf__> from vector files
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[21:02:39] <{HD}> Laser web is cool.
[21:03:46] <Wolf__> somewhat, I’m using a smoothie so I load the gcode to the board vs drip feeding it
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[21:13:47] <{HD}> https://i.imgur.com
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[21:14:42] <Wolf__> well, thats not right
[21:15:16] <{HD}> That’s when you type in 500 thinking 500 mm/m but accidentally selected 500 mm/s.
[21:15:29] <Wolf__> lol
[21:16:18] <{HD}> Yep. This is just a test board so no big deal.
[21:18:23] <Wolf__> I think I need to keep mine around 300mm/s to keep it from messing up
[21:19:00] <Wolf__> mostly because of crappy bearings in the rails
[21:25:20] <{HD}> If I’m trying to discolor paper I can go at 5000 mm/m.
[21:30:01] <Wolf__> mine did better before it got rusted up in my garage
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[21:39:08] <{HD}> Yikes! Wheres the lube?
[21:40:01] <Wolf__> oops lol
[21:43:00] <{HD}> Increasing the belt tension did not help :-(
[21:53:16] <Wolf__> check all the drive pulley set screws
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[22:13:15] <{HD}> Yep they’re all fine
[22:13:41] <Wolf__> then.. I have no idea lol
[22:14:20] <{HD}> It must be the software generating the G code. I’m gonna go just do some vector conversion with some circles and lines.
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[22:48:05] <flyback> https://shop.evilmadscientist.com
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[23:29:47] <roycroft> it is almost dark
[23:29:56] <roycroft> which means it's almost time to go deal with the wasp nest
[23:30:25] * roycroft is hoping to not get stung a couple dozen more times
[23:31:32] <XXCoder> wear coat and gloves for winter
[23:31:41] <XXCoder> cover your head with towel
[23:31:46] <roycroft> i shall wear heavy clothing
[23:31:58] <roycroft> it should be ok
[23:32:00] <XXCoder> then use thin plastic you can see thogh to cover face
[23:32:01] <roycroft> it's a ground next
[23:32:05] <roycroft> nest
[23:32:12] <XXCoder> hornets eh
[23:32:14] <roycroft> i'm going to cover the hole with window screen first
[23:32:23] <roycroft> then weigh it down all around the hole with a bunch of bricks
[23:32:35] <roycroft> that should keep them from getting out
[23:32:59] <roycroft> assuming there is only one hole, and i looked around and could only find one hole
[23:33:21] <XXCoder> so after covering whats your plan
[23:33:34] <roycroft> i will squirt some dish washing soap down the hole
[23:33:37] <roycroft> then fill it with water
[23:34:20] <roycroft> repeat until it takes no more water
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[23:34:33] <roycroft> then cover the screen with a bowl and let it sit overnight
[23:34:53] <XXCoder> nice
[23:35:33] <roycroft> i'm not fan of pesticides, and this nest is fairly close to one of my herb beds, so i especially don't want to use anything nasty
[23:36:16] <roycroft> the soap will both coat their wings so they cannot fly, and coat their bodies so they cannot breath
[23:36:18] <roycroft> w
[23:36:22] <roycroft> e, rather
[23:36:36] <XXCoder> yeah i killed a hornet nest with just water. lots of watrr
[23:36:42] <roycroft> i've done this before, although it's been a long time
[23:36:44] <roycroft> it's very effective
[23:41:10] <XXCoder> yeah hornets isnt too common
[23:41:21] <XXCoder> not compared to paper wasps, other kinds of wasps
[23:41:29] <roycroft> it's probably been 15 years since i've had to deal with an underground nest
[23:41:39] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81
[23:41:41] <roycroft> i found it while mowing the lawn today
[23:41:43] <Tom_L> raised Z up a bit
[23:41:50] <roycroft> i got a couple dozen stings before i could get away
[23:41:57] <XXCoder> nice, Tom_L
[23:41:57] <Tom_L> better vise clearance
[23:42:05] <XXCoder> looks like 2 in or so?
[23:42:09] <roycroft> i'm glad i'm not young any more
[23:42:10] <Tom_L> yes
[23:42:20] <roycroft> because i was highly allergic to bee/wasp venom when i was young
[23:42:26] <XXCoder> ow
[23:42:46] <XXCoder> older also means harder to run away though lol
[23:43:32] <roycroft> i had the energy of a 20-year-old when they started stinging
[23:43:45] <roycroft> swatting at them does not help
[23:43:48] <roycroft> killing them does not help
[23:43:59] <roycroft> both cause them to emit pheromes that bring more wasps
[23:44:10] <roycroft> more VERY ANGRY wasps
[23:44:16] <roycroft> the only thing to do is run away
[23:45:21] <roycroft> anyway, dinner is over
[23:45:33] <roycroft> and it's dark enough that the little wasps will all be tucked into bed for the night
[23:45:39] <jesseg> djdelorie, hey do you happen to know how kicad exports solder paste gerber files? Specifically, when a flash is not suitable, does it have the option to use a G36 polygon?
[23:45:50] <djdelorie> I don't know, I don't use kicad
[23:45:54] <roycroft> so i should go put on way too much clothing and go out and deal with them
[23:46:01] <jesseg> djdelorie, gocha. How about what you do use?
[23:46:05] <djdelorie> I use geda
[23:46:09] <jesseg> yeah geda
[23:46:18] <djdelorie> and it doesn't use flashes
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[23:46:35] <jesseg> cool, just pure G36 poly's?
[23:46:47] <djdelorie> or lines, but yeah, all drawn
[23:47:00] <jesseg> or just vector scan line filled perimeters?
[23:47:08] <djdelorie> I think it will flash a circle though
[23:48:06] <jesseg> I'm trying to outfit a Cricut stencil cutter to cut paste masks lol. Eagle (ugh) uses the old polygons made of an outline and a hundred filler paths inside it which is kind of a pain to send to a drag knife cutter :P
[23:48:26] <djdelorie> a fill polygon from geda is a G36
[23:48:39] <jesseg> oh that is sweeeet
[23:48:39] <djdelorie> whether it uses it or not, I can't guarantee :-)
[23:48:52] <djdelorie> it can also export eps and png
[23:50:08] <jesseg> fascinating. I'm also working on a scanning UV laser exposure for printing image based data onto UV sensitized PCB or for doing silkscreen -- gonna try to use the scanning mirror from an old old laser printer.
[23:50:17] <jesseg> and I'd need png for that format
[23:50:59] <djdelorie> note: look at the pcb-rnd project, it may have importers and/or converters for other formats
[23:51:08] <djdelorie> else you need to design your board with geda too
[23:51:25] <djdelorie> (pcb-rnd is a fork of geda's pcb)
[23:51:26] <jesseg> cool, thanks
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