#linuxcnc | Logs for 2018-08-19

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[02:01:09] <sector_0> why are some machines, especially desktop machines not rated for aluminum or other harder metals?
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[02:02:01] <XXCoder> the chineseium ones?
[02:02:25] <sector_0> I know it's more difficult to machine harder materials, but isn't it simply a matter of the cutting speed and end mill?
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[02:02:38] <sector_0> XXCoder, well those are included too yeah lol
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[02:03:09] <XXCoder> heh chinese ones usually seriously underrate machines for some uses
[02:03:26] <XXCoder> anyway im not sure how to answer that other question
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[02:03:45] <XXCoder> theres play between frame rigidness, spindle strength, chipload and sideload
[02:04:04] <XXCoder> if you are fine with lots of rubbung and tool wear then essentally you can run more
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[02:07:22] <sector_0> XXCoder, well I mean if you cut too fast, you'll wear any machine
[02:07:38] <sector_0> the end mill can also break
[02:07:39] <XXCoder> too slow can be an issue also
[02:07:58] <XXCoder> rubbing the tool on material and not really cutting wears down tool
[02:08:53] <sector_0> well I guess so
[02:10:18] <XXCoder> ith plastics tool rubbing would cause plastic to melt nd stick to tool
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[02:18:30] <fragalot> hi
[02:19:30] <XXCoder> yo
[02:20:35] <MrHindsight> sector_0: they are made too light, they bend and flex and vibrate
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[02:21:49] <MrHindsight> I've never been in a high precision Chinese shop that didn't have western CNC machines
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[02:24:37] <fragalot> MrHindsight: have you ever been in a high precision chinese shop?
[02:24:54] <MrHindsight> https://hackaday.com
[02:25:10] <MrHindsight> yrs
[02:25:15] <MrHindsight> yes even
[02:25:17] <fragalot> also - there are very high quality eastern machines too
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[02:25:30] <MrHindsight> Taiwanese
[02:25:34] <fragalot> japanese
[02:25:54] <MrHindsight> they are prctically uhmerican
[02:25:59] <fragalot> :P
[02:26:25] <fragalot> matsuura, mazak, doosan,..
[02:26:47] <MrHindsight> many vendors make their castings in China
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[02:27:13] <MrHindsight> some even have western workers QC them
[02:28:07] <fragalot> yup
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[02:38:33] <miss0r> goodmirning
[02:39:07] <fragalot> top of the mornin' sir
[02:39:48] <XXCoder> good pre-mormning
[02:40:01] <miss0r> I ended up machining a file to fit in a clapped out reciprocating saw last night. That worked a treat :D
[02:40:10] <fragalot> xD
[02:40:29] <XXCoder> shaped a part well eh
[02:40:50] <miss0r> my neighboor threw it out because it 'could't go fast no more'. Which was perfect for me
[02:41:05] <Wolfmetalfab> thats what this is for https://i.imgur.com
[02:41:08] <fragalot> miss0r: I cleared out 2m³ worth of stuff out of my shed to help make more room for the schaublin
[02:41:14] <fragalot> .. you can't tell and I haven't gained any space
[02:41:35] <fragalot> Wolfmetalfab: what on earth is that
[02:42:02] <miss0r> I'm trying to make heads'n tails of it as well :S
[02:42:05] <fragalot> looks like a 60's style rotary tool
[02:42:56] <Wolfmetalfab> http://diprofil.com
[02:43:06] <fragalot> just found that :P
[02:43:17] <fragalot> fancy
[02:43:29] <miss0r> mine was free xP
[02:43:44] <Wolfmetalfab> $150 for this, and it can use fordom hand pieces
[02:43:47] <miss0r> XP <- smiley, if in doubt
[02:43:51] <fragalot> miss0r: have you seen ToT's filing video?
[02:44:09] <miss0r> fragalot: yeah. that machine wouldn't have been any good here anyway
[02:44:18] <fragalot> miss0r: bet you could have made it work
[02:44:25] <miss0r> for something it is nice though, but I can't have a file all the way through
[02:44:43] <fragalot> Wolfmetalfab: the only local distributor of foredom handpieces that i know of retired last week
[02:44:49] <Wolfmetalfab> some compay makes a adapter for files and brushes for recp saws
[02:44:51] <fragalot> so now I can't seem to find any more without importing them myself
[02:45:03] <ktchk> a 1.8deg 200step motor 5mm/turn goes 0.025mm per motor step, what about 300step 3phase 1.2deg
[02:45:12] <fragalot> miss0r: I think you can mount a file on one end only
[02:45:20] <fragalot> it's just held on both sides for stability
[02:45:37] <fragalot> ktchk: highschool math.
[02:45:50] <miss0r> I'm not sure about that design he has there can do that. But I have seen die filers where it just moves up and down from underneath - with no overhead support
[02:45:51] <fragalot> 5mm/turn, and it takes 300 steps per turn
[02:45:56] <fragalot> 5 / 300 = ?
[02:46:16] <miss0r> is this a test ? :P
[02:46:32] <fragalot> miss0r: I think in his case the support part is the part underneath the table
[02:46:34] <Wolfmetalfab> its almost 3am I cant math
[02:46:37] <fragalot> given that the file is mounted on the top part
[02:46:44] <fragalot> in any case it's just a big C frame that moves up and down
[02:47:00] <miss0r> yeah. but the mounting system that machine of his uses, would never be able to do a one point/end support
[02:47:17] <fragalot> make a better one
[02:47:17] <ktchk> how to advance 0.025mm for 5/300
[02:47:20] <fragalot> you've got the tools
[02:47:32] <fragalot> ktchk: microstepping
[02:47:47] <miss0r> sure.. I'll slap together a large die filer for this one task :P WHERE TO PUT IT?!
[02:48:04] <Wolfmetalfab> lol
[02:48:06] <ktchk> do you stop a stepper motor at 1/4 of a 1.8deg?
[02:48:08] <Wolfmetalfab> I can relate
[02:48:12] <fragalot> ktchk: you get a good motor drive that is able to create additional steps in between the 300 that the motor supports, so instead of 300, for example you could make it do 600 or 900 steps
[02:48:30] <fragalot> it does that by activating 2 coils halfway rather than 1 coil all the way
[02:48:38] <Wolfmetalfab> keep in mind micro step = less torque
[02:48:45] <ktchk> that is 0.9 dg
[02:48:49] <miss0r> Wolfmetalfab: I have no space left in here. :D
[02:49:19] <miss0r> fragalot: So tomorrow is, perhaps, the big day ? :D
[02:49:23] <ktchk> for 3 phase 1.2 deg that is 0.8 deg
[02:49:26] <fragalot> ktchk: easy answer: if your drive can't microstep fine enough, then you can not make the move you wanted and it will round it off.
[02:49:26] <Wolfmetalfab> my surface grinder and 2nd vidmar cabinet is still sitting in the box truck body
[02:49:48] <fragalot> miss0r: hopefully, I don't want to have taken the day off tomorrow only to learn it's ocming on tuesday instead
[02:49:54] <Wolfmetalfab> plan B gear reduction
[02:50:13] <miss0r> fragalot: fingers crossed
[02:50:20] <fragalot> miss0r: indeed
[02:50:31] <fragalot> also, I had to make my ramp out of pine without sheet metal on it
[02:50:45] <fragalot> because there are 3 local wood dealers that carry hardwood
[02:50:53] <fragalot> i used them last month
[02:50:58] <fragalot> one appears to have shut down permanently
[02:51:00] <miss0r> did you 'chamfer' the end of the lowest plywood sheet, so sit flush with the walkway?
[02:51:20] <fragalot> the other appears to have been bought by a large DIY chain that doesn't carry hardwood anymore
[02:51:32] <fragalot> and the third is only open on wednesday afternoon between 2-4pm
[02:51:49] <miss0r> odd place of buisness
[02:51:49] <Wolfmetalfab> are you sliding the thing or rolling it ?
[02:51:50] <fragalot> I could also not find any steel sheet metal above 0.5mm thickness
[02:52:13] <fragalot> or I had to buy a 1meter strip of 3x15 for €20
[02:52:18] <miss0r> wtf... if you drive now, you can almost make it back in time, if you come here to pick up a sheet ;)
[02:52:40] <fragalot> currently there is no plywood on it, it's just a solid ramp
[02:52:50] <Wolfmetalfab> fragalot: https://i.imgur.com roll
[02:53:06] <fragalot> Wolfmetalfab: yeah i'm rolling it
[02:53:55] <Wolfmetalfab> we rolled that up over the door threshold about 40cm lip
[02:54:12] <miss0r> fragalot: Did you get a winch?
[02:54:17] <fragalot> yes
[02:54:26] <fragalot> 1 ton, 3 meter chain
[02:54:36] <fragalot> because they didn't have anything larger
[02:54:52] <miss0r> Thats a bit short, ha ? :)
[02:55:04] <fragalot> it's fine, I've got enough climbing gear to extend it
[02:55:12] <fragalot> just need the pulling force
[02:55:28] <miss0r> I have a wire winch, with a crank handle on it. it has 15meters of wire. But it is only a 750kg. But that is quite plenty for dragging stuff
[02:55:29] <Wolfmetalfab> pull it 3m, hold it in place with whatever, reset
[02:55:41] <miss0r> yeah
[02:55:49] <fragalot> miss0r: oh I could borrow one of those that can pull ~15 tons from a friend
[02:56:00] <fragalot> but I prefer to feel when i'm about to snap something, lol
[02:56:13] <ktchk> with increament of 0.0125mm with a 200 steps motor and a 5mm screw (halh step) how to make it smaller?
[02:56:20] <miss0r> *CRASH* "did it fall over?!" "I don't know, I can't feel any difference on this end"
[02:56:32] <Wolfmetalfab> lol
[02:56:43] <fragalot> ktchk: 2 options; microstep finer, or use a reduction like a pulley or gear
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[02:56:55] <Wolfmetalfab> ^ that
[02:56:59] <Deejay> moin
[02:57:07] <miss0r> morning Deejay
[02:57:13] <fragalot> ktchk: bear in mind that there are not a lot of machines that will respond to less than a 0.01mm move anyway
[02:57:19] <ktchk> fragalot: did you make it work on you machine?
[02:57:37] <Wolfmetalfab> morning Deejay (this means I should be sleeping) lol
[02:57:43] <fragalot> ktchk: I'm microstepping 5000 steps on a 5mm leadscrew
[02:58:22] <ktchk> can you increase to 0.01.6mm ?
[02:58:34] <ktchk> can you increase to 0.0126mm ?
[02:58:36] <fragalot> that is not a real number
[02:58:36] <fragalot> :P
[02:58:54] <fragalot> no, but it will do 0.012 or 0.013
[02:59:02] <fragalot> 'probably'
[02:59:11] <ktchk> did you?
[02:59:17] <Wolfmetalfab> resolution is kinda relative to what machine and what youre trying to do also…
[02:59:58] <ktchk> machine is 200 step motor and a 5mm screw no gear box
[03:00:22] <fragalot> ktchk: and the drive is able to turn the 200 step motor into a 5000 step one
[03:00:52] <ktchk> no way to stop in bewtreen 0.9 deg
[03:00:52] <Wolfmetalfab> 25x micro step?
[03:00:53] <fragalot> ktchk: https://www.youtube.com
[03:01:06] <miss0r> ktchk: Yes there is
[03:01:32] <fragalot> Wolfmetalfab: possible with some drives, though I doubt that if I told it to step in a direction for only one step that it would actually do it
[03:02:27] <ktchk> linuxcnc increament in ini file can do a single step of 0.0125mm
[03:02:54] <Wolfmetalfab> doesn’t really matter, most machines frames will move around in tolerances more then the 0.0125mm movement commanded
[03:03:19] <fragalot> the ini file can also do a single step of 10mm
[03:03:24] <fragalot> or 0.00001mm
[03:03:38] <fragalot> it's just a configuration file to tell linuxcnc what distance a single step will move
[03:03:38] <ktchk> no way for 0.00001mm
[03:03:56] <fragalot> it doesn't "adjust" anything
[03:03:56] <miss0r> some machine 'can' do that.
[03:04:04] <ktchk> try it
[03:04:16] <miss0r> but they are not your garden vareity diy cnc
[03:04:19] <fragalot> ktchk: let's take a few steps back
[03:04:19] <Wolfmetalfab> there is a good reason why most people dont bother to put 1um scales on most things lol
[03:04:28] <fragalot> ktchk: do you, or do you not, already have a machine in mind?
[03:04:41] <fragalot> Wolfmetalfab: i'm going to put those on my schaublin because I hate myself
[03:04:50] <miss0r> Wolfmetalfab: Hey! my mill has 1um scales on it! from factory :D
[03:05:02] <Wolfmetalfab> lol
[03:05:03] <ktchk> I have test on few machine
[03:05:05] <fragalot> miss0r: does yours also do that weird thing where it rounds the number when jogging?
[03:05:19] <fragalot> ktchk: ok, and have you ever configured a drive to do microstepping?
[03:05:28] <miss0r> fragalot: Not that I have noticed - what are you referring to?
[03:05:32] <ktchk> always
[03:05:39] <Wolfmetalfab> ktchk: what type of machine are you building?
[03:05:44] <fragalot> ktchk: what number do you set it to?
[03:06:00] <ktchk> 0.0125mm
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[03:06:27] <fragalot> miss0r: on the Deckel FP42NC, when you use the manual wheel or jog it, the number always increments in 0.001mm like you expect.. but when you switch to a different axis, it rounds it to 0.01mm
[03:06:45] <fragalot> ktchk: on the motor drive itself. What microstepping do you set it to?
[03:06:53] <miss0r> fragalot: That is not the case with mine
[03:07:01] <ktchk> 125
[03:07:20] <fragalot> that's not a possible number
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[03:07:32] <ktchk> max is 256
[03:07:34] <fragalot> it is either 1:2, 1:4, 1:8,..
[03:07:34] <Wolfmetalfab> my 1um scale on my lathe drives me nuts, always jitters
[03:07:43] <fragalot> so it's 128
[03:07:59] <fragalot> that means that you are doing 200*128 steps per revolution of the motor
[03:08:12] <miss0r> Wolfmetalfab: meh.. get a machine with more ol'iron
[03:08:14] <ktchk> not stop in between
[03:08:23] <fragalot> so you have a 5/25600 resolution
[03:08:33] <fragalot> or 0.00195mm
[03:08:38] <fragalot> ktchk: it DOES stop in between
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[03:08:39] <ktchk> no way
[03:08:40] <miss0r> ktchk: it 'can' stop in between steps
[03:08:41] <fragalot> ktchk: that is what microstepping is
[03:08:50] <ktchk> o.9 deg
[03:09:02] <fragalot> ktchk: 0.9° is a 1:2 microstep
[03:09:06] <ktchk> not 0.45 deg
[03:09:07] <XXCoder> in pracial sense theres point where it kinda wander a little
[03:09:15] <fragalot> ktchk: 0.45° would be 1:4
[03:09:16] <miss0r> :o This is getting interresting. :D
[03:09:18] <XXCoder> 256 microsteps isnt any more precise
[03:09:25] <fragalot> XXCoder: of course not
[03:09:37] <fragalot> but microstepping does make things smoother
[03:09:37] <miss0r> XXCoder: no, but the increments are smaller :D
[03:09:59] <ktchk> smoother yes
[03:10:01] <XXCoder> not sure how far is worthy of going though.
[03:10:09] <XXCoder> like 4x, 8x or 1024x :P
[03:10:18] <miss0r> XXCoder: depends on your temper :D
[03:10:22] <fragalot> beyond 8x there is not much to gain
[03:10:42] <fragalot> the only reason i've got mine sest to 5000 steps is because it makes the math easier
[03:10:42] <miss0r> but me wantz microdegree step precision!
[03:10:45] <fragalot> :P
[03:11:16] <XXCoder> lol
[03:11:19] <ktchk> gear box will do
[03:11:36] <miss0r> ktchk: it absolutly can 'stop in between steps'
[03:11:40] <XXCoder> backlash
[03:11:44] <fragalot> ktchk: sure, but with a gearbox you get backlash
[03:11:45] <ktchk> good gear box
[03:11:52] <miss0r> okay, less backlash
[03:11:57] <Wolfmetalfab> harmonic drives are nice a cheap….
[03:12:01] <ktchk> try it on your machine
[03:12:02] <miss0r> but backlash nontheless
[03:12:02] <Wolfmetalfab> a/and
[03:12:18] <ktchk> harmonic gear
[03:12:42] <miss0r> okay, even less backlash, but it is still there
[03:12:56] <ktchk> I have a 50:1 harmonic gear
[03:13:08] <miss0r> microstepping is good for math :)
[03:14:41] <ktchk> now my area have 3phase 0.12 deg stepper I can do the math
[03:18:34] * Wolfmetalfab still wonders what type of cnc machine needs to have 0.012mm step…
[03:19:16] <miss0r> Wolfmetalfab: One that does not crap out chinesium quality products
[03:19:31] <Wolfmetalfab> lol
[03:19:55] <miss0r> I can step my big old mill 0.001mm at a time. I have verified this with a dial
[03:20:06] <ktchk> try it on a c-4 screw
[03:20:29] <ktchk> taiwan
[03:20:31] <Wolfmetalfab> oh derp thats half thou
[03:20:34] <miss0r> Why would that be an issue?
[03:21:16] <miss0r> its 4/10.000 inch
[03:22:21] <ktchk> real? not 1/2000 inch
[03:22:46] <fragalot> Wolfmetalfab: :P
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[03:22:57] <Wolfmetalfab> 0.001 inch = thou
[03:23:09] <ktchk> half thou
[03:23:36] <Wolfmetalfab> its past 3am here, math is hard
[03:23:37] <Wolfmetalfab> lol
[03:24:04] <ktchk> north america?
[03:24:16] <Wolfmetalfab> yeah
[03:24:26] <ktchk> I am in Hong kong
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[03:29:00] <Wolfmetalfab> omg lmao, 30+ yr old parallel set, the 1.75” is still in the packing paper…
[03:29:08] <fragalot> ktchk: how far away are you from Huaqiangbei?
[03:30:35] <ktchk> Huaqiangbei??
[03:30:55] <miss0r> the electronics & other stuff market!
[03:31:07] <miss0r> or is that place not real? :D
[03:31:17] <ktchk> one hour
[03:31:51] <ktchk> I don't go there but use Taobao.com
[03:32:28] <fragalot> do they have an 'english' button?
[03:32:40] <ktchk> no
[03:32:43] <miss0r> google chrome does
[03:32:47] <miss0r> it looks like ebay
[03:33:40] <ktchk> but in those pictures no english, and they do not ship international. use alibaba.com
[03:34:02] <ktchk> allibaba.com
[03:34:06] <fragalot> yeah no
[03:36:11] <miss0r> I have to run. socialize'n stuff :/ ttyl
[03:36:24] <fragalot> Enjoy
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[04:06:33] <gloops> did you get any good photos fragalot?
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[04:23:38] <selroc> log
[04:23:38] <c-log> selroc: Today's Log http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81
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[04:27:20] <gloops> did you get any good photos fragalot?
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[04:40:39] <gloops> photography on the mind atm as have got 3 big boxes of old gear to sort out
[04:41:04] <fragalot> gloops: I did, bt i've only sorted through about a third of the ones I took
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[04:44:54] <gloops> any posted online yet?
[04:45:04] <fragalot> no
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[04:45:53] <gloops> lol, bit slack there for a photographer, the first pics are usually edited and on flickr before the first cup of tea is made when they get back from the mountain
[04:46:02] <fragalot> I'm not on flickr :-
[04:46:03] <fragalot> :-)
[04:46:09] <gloops> not on flickr...
[04:46:19] <fragalot> these are just going into a physical album when i'm done sorting through
[04:46:22] <gloops> you should have at least 4 lost flickr accounts
[04:46:39] <fragalot> oh there is a lost one probably
[04:46:49] <fragalot> but haven't used that in at least 6 years
[04:47:58] <gloops> got a fair size metz flash unit here im going to try charging in a minute, 6 batteries
[04:48:40] <fragalot> 64?
[04:48:59] <gloops> 45 CL-1
[04:49:21] <fragalot> I thought that one took 4 batteries
[04:49:48] <fragalot> apparently not, lol
[04:50:08] <gloops> no its got 6 slots - thankfully someone made tippex squares and marked the +- locations
[04:50:16] <fragalot> lol
[04:53:00] <gloops> whoo very nice high pitch whine
[04:53:16] <fragalot> as long as it's a quick one :)
[04:53:20] <gloops> but no lights on..
[04:55:15] <gloops> so, maybe 2 batteries not charged enough, or its a duff, capacitor seem to charge though
[04:55:38] <fragalot> llshame
[04:57:50] <gloops> it might still work, 2 of the batteries werent charged much, will try again later - would be useful for night stuff, lighting buildings and whatever
[04:58:41] <fragalot> have you got a remote & gels for it?
[04:59:56] <gloops> its got a bundle of cable with it and tripod fitting, would probably connect it to flash on camera
[05:00:10] <fragalot> that works
[05:00:19] <gloops> for long exposure at niht - simply fire it constantly manually
[05:00:55] <Wolf__> flash photography is even more fun with wireless flash triggers
[05:00:59] <fragalot> that's a common trick to do building photography
[05:01:11] <fragalot> set up camera, go pop some light in random spots
[05:01:21] <fragalot> (when I say random, I mean well thought out)
[05:01:23] <Wolf__> can do all sorts of neat effects
[05:01:26] <gloops> yeah i have got various optical triggered units
[05:01:39] <Wolf__> I mean RF trigger =)
[05:01:49] <fragalot> I love my RF setup
[05:01:58] <fragalot> because it's compatible with nearly every brand of flash :P
[05:02:12] <Wolf__> that too =)
[05:02:44] <Wolf__> mine works as a flash or shutter trigger
[05:02:49] <gloops> thats more ok for set pieces, studio and so on, its pretty convenient sometimes just to drop a few optically triggered units where you want them and start shooting though
[05:03:27] <gloops> on the basis of - could do with some light from here and a bit over there etc
[05:04:00] <Wolf__> I use my rf w/ the regular cannon speedlite on camera flash, but it lets you put it in odd places for effect
[05:04:28] <fragalot> i've got a mixed bag of sony, nissin and canon flashes
[05:04:43] <fragalot> all RF capable if i've got a nissin flash on my camera
[05:05:01] <Wolf__> I haven’t had my camera out in 2 yrs… =/
[05:05:16] <fragalot> Boo.
[05:05:35] <gloops> my favourite is probably a yongnuo, have got nikon and sigma, various others, loads of random obsolete units that came with old ddr cameras
[05:05:44] <fragalot> gloops: I prefer RF over optical just because in my experience it's a lot more reliable.. (and it works with TTL metering)
[05:06:07] <fragalot> plus I can change the settings remotely
[05:08:17] <gloops> yes its a comprehensive system
[05:09:06] <fragalot> check out the nissin air 1
[05:09:12] <fragalot> not that expensive, very easy to use
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[05:11:52] <gloops> i probably wouldnt buy much new photo gear these days, i lost the bug a while ago, still like to use a camera occasionally though
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[05:59:31] <jthornton> morning
[06:16:23] <miss0r> mornin' JT
[06:17:07] <miss0r> Question for you: When it comes to the mesa boards' digital inputs; are there a build-in pull down resistor, or do I need to think about that myself? and what about signal debouncing?
[06:17:23] <miss0r> jthornton: ^
[06:19:01] <jthornton> you just connect a switch like this http://gnipsel.com
[06:19:30] <jthornton> you can use the debounce component if you have bouncy switches
[06:19:34] <miss0r> so it already does what I asked :)
[06:19:58] <miss0r> great :]
[06:20:51] <miss0r> I'm not so worried about bouncy switches, I'm more worried about HF noise generating trancients
[06:21:09] <jthornton> plasma?
[06:21:11] <miss0r> But then again.. those are rarely above 5 volts...
[06:21:26] <miss0r> nah, ooold DC "VFD"
[06:21:44] <miss0r> I haven't done any measurements on it as of yet, I am just plotting
[06:21:57] <jthornton> aye some vfd's can be noisy
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[06:25:53] <miss0r> but this is not usualy a problem with the components?
[06:27:03] <jthornton> I don't understand the question
[06:27:15] <miss0r> the mesa boards are pretty hardened when it comes to noise
[06:27:34] <miss0r> with buildin pulldowns and the option to add a debouncing module
[06:28:07] <jthornton> the debounce is a LinuxCNC HAL component
[06:28:23] <miss0r> good enough for me :) as long as that option is there, in case of noise
[06:28:46] <jthornton> you would have to ask pcw about the board specifics
[06:29:15] <miss0r> Sure, but I got what I wanted already
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[06:35:42] <gloops> whaay my metz flash has a light..although it is red
[06:36:55] <gloops> i dont know anything about capacitors, but maybe when they havent been charged for years, they can be tempermental to start with
[06:37:47] <gloops> it works lol
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[06:41:08] <miss0r> gloops: electrolyte capasitors if used and then stored away has a tendancy to dry out. This is more true for older designs.
[06:41:16] <miss0r> Be carefull charging them, they might be shorted internally
[06:41:41] <gloops> miss0r do they recover from that when charged again? this one seems to have anyway
[06:42:24] <miss0r> from some stages that are not completely dried up, you can recover them
[06:42:44] <miss0r> a good idea is to charge them slowly through a resistor, slowly upping the voltage
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[06:42:55] <miss0r> preferable from a bench psu
[06:43:16] <gloops> i dont know what type is used for camera flashes - this morning it made the charging whine sound, but was otherwise apparently dead - now its working fine
[06:43:52] <miss0r> that is a type of electrolyte cap
[06:43:59] <miss0r> but if you have it working now, you're out'a the woods
[06:44:29] <miss0r> well, at the point it is no more likely to short out than if you had just been using it all along
[06:44:35] <gloops> ahh well, didnt cost me anything, see how long it lasts
[06:45:00] <miss0r> The beauty of camera flash systems are they are charged with a very limited current to a high voltage. essentially it has its own recovery system
[06:45:27] <miss0r> you can imagine the mess if a cap in a high amperage DC powersupply shorts.
[06:45:33] <gloops> hmm good thing then, it must have been in the box for 10 years
[06:46:43] <gloops> miss0r hopefully there is some physical protection built into the casing to save my fingers being de-skinned if it goes up
[06:47:01] <gloops> or my eyes
[06:47:55] <miss0r> hehe. unlikely
[06:48:09] <miss0r> but in the case of camera flashes, they are not exactly handgrenades in there
[06:48:20] <miss0r> worst case, the housing get a crack
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[06:48:53] <gloops> nah, iver never heard of a flash causing injury come to think of it
[06:49:55] <miss0r> indeed
[06:50:33] <miss0r> I made one of those insest bats at some years ago. you know the ones - they charge and spark when you hit a bug with'em
[06:50:57] <gloops> not seen them but sounds fun
[06:51:16] <miss0r> I fused it with something simular to a camera flash.. When you hit a bumblebee with that thing, it gave a massive boom and the poor bug was *NOWHERE* to be found
[06:51:21] <miss0r> mostly evaporated, I think :)
[06:51:47] <gloops> haha, could spend many a happy hour with one of those
[06:51:53] <miss0r> they look like tennis bats, but consists of two parallel meshes, one for plus and one for minus. Then when the bug hits, it shorts out the cap
[06:52:10] <miss0r> *poof*
[06:52:44] <gloops> lol, that sounds like a good idea
[06:53:17] <miss0r> a few years ago all the supermarkets had'em. you'd find one on every street corner. some chinesium export stuff, dirt cheap
[06:53:48] <miss0r> they werent good for anything bigger than mosquitos out'a the box. and if you hit two insets at the same time, it hardly had the punch to take both of'em out.
[06:54:03] <miss0r> lets just say; my modified version could've taken down a swarm in one hit ;)
[06:54:09] <gloops> ive never seen them, maybe banned here or me just not getting out enough
[06:54:46] <jthornton> I have a couple of them and the ones I have have quite a punch
[06:56:03] <gloops> well, my next addition machine wise is a vertical table for joint cutting
[06:56:44] <miss0r> digging through some old boxes, from the previous house owner: He left quite a bunch of realy nice files
[06:56:47] <gloops> will need to be hinged in some way to control the angle
[06:57:22] <miss0r> I just found a Urehbankfeile "DICK 3", germany. This is a lathe file
[06:57:33] <miss0r> also, a carbide tipped handscraper :o
[06:58:09] <gloops> i love looking through boxes of old stuff
[06:58:23] <miss0r> I never found out who the old owner of this is.
[06:58:48] <miss0r> I don't know the english term, but we bought the house from the family, because their parents living in the house had died
[06:59:26] <miss0r> the husband did something for the army, noone knew for sure what it was.. *excitement*. nevertheless; he left behind quite a few good quality tools I am now using
[06:59:40] <Jin^eLD> hi, maybe someone has a hint for me. I am writing a HAL component and I have the feeling that my FUNCTION(_) never gets called. I tried adding rtapi_print_msg() or setting a pin to a specific value, but I see no changes. I thought its supposed to get called periodically? Or do I need to set up an own thread via HAL for that?
[06:59:58] <gloops> hmm, maybe a mechanical engineer in the army or something
[07:00:19] <jthornton> Jin^eLD: did you addf the function?
[07:00:35] <miss0r> that is possible. i honnestly don't know. Based upon some documentation left behind, I would say he did something with their radar system
[07:01:16] <Jin^eLD> no... I guess i missed that in the component tutorial
[07:01:32] <Jin^eLD> jthornton: thanks for the hint, will read up on addf
[07:02:27] <jthornton> are you reading this? http://linuxcnc.org
[07:02:33] <Jin^eLD> interestinly there is no mention of that in http://linuxcnc.org although a lot of examples use functions
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[07:02:53] <Jin^eLD> ah, I missed he basics then :)
[07:03:44] <jthornton> I need to put a link in there to the basic hal
[07:04:28] <Jin^eLD> or just add a note somewhere that this is needed in order for the functions to get called
[07:05:51] <jthornton> needs a section after installing for using a comp
[07:06:31] <Jin^eLD> the comp.html has all the info for loading and connecting pins, just mentioning addf would be helpful there as well
[07:06:58] <Jin^eLD> or like that yes :)
[07:07:14] <Jin^eLD> anyway, thank you, now I know what I missed
[07:16:35] <Jin^eLD> hmm but seems I have no threads running
[07:16:55] <Jin^eLD> so I need to start the servo-thread manually via my .hal config too?
[07:17:49] <Jin^eLD> ok seems so, for a testing only environment at least
[07:17:49] <jthornton> http://linuxcnc.org
[07:18:02] <jthornton> look at the simple example
[07:19:13] <Jin^eLD> yep thats it, thanks, doh I should really take the time to go through all docs step by step :) jumped into components too quickly
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[07:26:38] <jthornton> Jin^eLD: this is what I just added to the component chapter https://paste.ubuntu.com
[07:26:54] <jthornton> would that have been enough information?
[07:27:08] <Jin^eLD> please add the start command too
[07:27:26] <Jin^eLD> that was the last thing I was missing but I now knew where to look for it :)
[07:27:39] <Jin^eLD> finally got my basic setup going
[07:28:26] <Jin^eLD> naiky_test.hal is actually a good example for simulations
[07:32:20] * jthornton gets back to coding the 7i96 configuration tool
[07:34:22] <Tom_L> rain
[07:36:04] <jthornton> yippie 60's to 80's on the way
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[08:04:22] <gloops> hmm just had a fab idea for a vertical table/surface on my router
[08:05:06] <gloops> ive got one of those old manual dovetail jigs, with cammed fast release clamping system, all i got to do is mount that vertical under the router table - perfect
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[09:32:31] <fragalot> hi
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[09:33:46] <veek> https://share-ng.sandia.gov
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[09:59:32] <gloops> so i bid on a PC in the last 8 hours thinking it looked a fair deal
[09:59:57] <gloops> only now do i look at the geezers other items and see its a pile of salvaged computer parts
[10:02:01] <gloops> so unlikely this is a 'little used family PC' much more likely he bodged it together from junk
[10:02:21] <fragalot> what's the difference?
[10:02:36] <gloops> maybe none at all
[10:03:10] <gloops> but this is like buying a used car, you dont really want the guy to come out of the garage wearing a welding mask when you turn up for a viewing
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[10:34:42] <jthornton> how do you calculate the time to reach max speed from max acceleration and max velocity?
[10:36:00] <fragalot> jthornton: ask yourself what units are these 2 things in? :-)
[10:37:09] <jthornton> well lets start with inch per second velocity and inch per second per second acceleration
[10:38:00] <fragalot> right, so you've got a spare 'second' in there, which means that if you put it in the right formula, you'll end up with a time in seconds
[10:40:56] <pcw_home> (1 In/S) / (1 In/S^2) = 1 S
[10:41:09] <jthornton> thanks
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[10:41:35] <fragalot> pcw_home: we're talking about time, not conductivity. :-)
[10:42:12] <pcw_home> :-)
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[10:50:07] <rebecca> crap... my estops purchased months ago are actually just momentary rather than latching.
[10:51:12] <gloops> that would still work wouldnt it?
[10:51:29] <fragalot> gloops: yes and no
[10:51:36] <fragalot> yes, it MAY work, but no it should never be used as an estop
[10:51:47] <gloops> you get the signal, the stop event is triggered
[10:52:05] <fragalot> but it unlatches again so it can be restarted without being reset
[10:52:31] <gloops> wont it need resetting from linuxcnc?
[10:52:31] <fragalot> estops have to be latching NC that are guaranteed to break the circuit
[10:52:38] <fragalot> that's just software
[10:52:41] <fragalot> never trust software
[10:52:53] <gloops> now you tell me!
[10:53:42] <rebecca> yup, what fragalot said
[10:54:50] <gloops> https://www.ebay.co.uk
[10:54:58] <gloops> i got those for limits, never failed yet
[10:55:06] <rebecca> i'll use it for now. because i'm currently just constructing a 1 axis test config
[10:55:54] <gloops> getting the urge to construct again, after the hot weather break in proceedings
[10:56:00] <fragalot> gloops: ESTOP, not limit
[10:56:05] <fragalot> there is a difference
[10:56:19] <fragalot> a limit switch protects the machine from harming itself
[10:56:23] <fragalot> an estop protects the operator
[10:56:45] <gloops> yes i know, i didnt bother with estop
[10:56:52] <fragalot> you should
[10:57:06] <fragalot> mine's mounted on my MPG pendant so it's close by at all times
[10:57:16] <gloops> a cnc router is the safest machine in the world
[10:57:25] <fragalot> until you get your hand caught in it
[10:57:26] <rebecca> lol
[10:58:30] <gloops> i wont get caught in it, i start it from several feet away and dont go near it when its cutting
[10:59:01] <rebecca> emergency measures are not for when everything is happening as planned
[10:59:04] <fragalot> your loss. just don't say we didn't warn you.
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[10:59:32] <fragalot> just like the ground issue you had; it's not because you don't think you don't need it that you aren't glad you have it right
[10:59:42] <fragalot> (or something like that)
[11:00:39] <gloops> its fine, the main power switch is within reach
[11:02:09] <gloops> tbh i dont even think there is room for any more switches on the BOB, or anything else, at all
[11:12:42] <Tom_L> wireless Estop ftw
[11:13:11] <Tom_L> you can easily mount it anywhere then :D
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[11:14:57] <Tom_L> does RPI work with linuxcnc very well?
[11:15:54] <pcw_home> very might be a bit extreme
[11:16:23] <Tom_L> don't try it on a machine you plan to use for work then ehh?
[11:17:08] <pcw_home> Ive had one running master for about a month now and its OK but dont try to load big files with the backplot enabled
[11:17:09] <fragalot> you know how most large lathes have that giant ESTOP foot bar?
[11:17:23] <fragalot> I love how on my schaublin mill that's the "engage rapid auto-feed"
[11:17:43] <Tom_L> i love the footbar on lathes
[11:18:26] <Tom_L> while you're stomping your foot cause you just farked up you can also stop the lathe
[11:18:39] <pcw_home> and dont play with gremlin with complex backplots full screen, you will run out of memory and come to a abrupt stop
[11:19:10] <Tom_L> pcw_home, i know a guy that's thinking of trying it. i may try to sway him away from it
[11:19:16] <pcw_home> other than that it seems reliable
[11:19:45] <pcw_home> I have it running on a RPI specific FPGA card
[11:20:04] <Tom_L> are you selling em? or just testing
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[11:20:49] <pcw_home> I think one of the RPI clones would be a better choice but ist a bit of work to get a RT kernel and SPI support going on them
[11:21:09] <pcw_home> may sell them, want a proto?
[11:21:29] <Tom_L> not me, i haven't used a RPI
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[11:23:23] <pcw_home> the painful part about all the ARM SBCs is that unlike X86, every one is different in terms of booting/toolchains/low level utilities/weird proprietary blobs etc etc
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[12:29:41] <jthornton> hazzy-lab: just pushed to the 7i96 configuration tool
[12:30:24] <Tom_L> pcw_home, have you looked at these? https://www.amazon.com
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[12:31:28] <hazzy-lab> jthornton: I'll look
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[12:34:12] <beachbumpete1> hey guys everyone having a nice weekend?
[12:34:58] <Tom_L> showers here
[12:35:14] <beachbumpete1> yeah its pouring over here
[12:36:38] <Tom_L> still waiting to re'tram the mill after adding the risers
[12:36:42] <beachbumpete1> any of you guys have a good mill post for linuxCNC in Fusion360? The one in there is kinda crappy
[12:36:50] <beachbumpete1> risers?
[12:36:53] <Tom_L> no, i looked at it
[12:37:29] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81
[12:37:31] <beachbumpete1> I just posted a code with it and it had a tool callout folowed by another one immeditately which was quite odd
[12:38:01] <Tom_L> i want to extend Z travel
[12:38:07] <Tom_L> longer rails eventually
[12:38:21] <beachbumpete1> nice
[12:38:25] <beachbumpete1> never enough travel LOL
[12:38:26] <Tom_L> 10-11" is the goal
[12:38:50] <Tom_L> then i won't fight switching between plate and vise
[12:39:06] <beachbumpete1> aah
[12:39:12] <beachbumpete1> looks good tho man
[12:39:34] <beachbumpete1> I have been playing with this 3D printer kit and printed the first few parts
[12:39:40] <Tom_L> nice
[12:39:54] <beachbumpete1> its working ok but I am getting some initial layer shifting for some raeson
[12:40:09] <Tom_L> bed too hot?
[12:40:17] <beachbumpete1> once it gets past the first two layers it works perfect so I am wondering if its a setup issue
[12:40:20] <Tom_L> ( i know nothing about glue guns )
[12:40:28] <beachbumpete1> its at 55c
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[12:55:05] <Tom_L> beachbumpete1
[12:55:36] <Tom_L> guy here from Fl is looking to build a cnc
[12:55:40] <Tom_L> figured you were close
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[12:59:03] <beachbumpete1> what guy?
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[13:00:23] <_unreal_> this guy
[13:00:38] <_unreal_> I'm in boca
[13:00:41] <beachbumpete1> heh
[13:00:55] <beachbumpete1> I'm in St. Lucie county
[13:01:14] <_unreal_> drive past there now and then when I take my daughter to disney
[13:01:18] <_unreal_> disney/universal
[13:01:37] <beachbumpete1> we are yearly passholders ;)
[13:01:42] <_unreal_> dido
[13:01:46] <_unreal_> to both
[13:02:00] -!- __abc__ has joined #linuxcnc
[13:02:12] <_unreal_> its a steal at nearly 2k
[13:02:21] <_unreal_> :p
[13:02:28] <__abc__> Hi. Is there a more #machining oriented channel? I would like to know what thread is recommended for vises, hand operated. ACME trapeze?
[13:02:43] <_unreal_> lol __abc__ yes
[13:02:55] <__abc__> yes to both?
[13:03:16] __abc__ is now known as abc__
[13:03:20] <hazzy-lab> __abc__: yes ACME or square is best for very heavy loads
[13:03:58] <abc__> And the pitch needs to be fine enough for self lock? <15 degrees pitch angle?
[13:03:59] <hazzy-lab> or buttress thread :D
[13:04:01] <_unreal_> beachbumpete1, so ya I'm working on building a cnc machine at work that I own, but for the company.. you know the little extra $$ bump
[13:04:10] <_unreal_> I'm toying with a lot of options
[13:04:23] <_unreal_> I already have my Base built
[13:04:48] <_unreal_> https://drive.google.com
[13:04:49] <hazzy-lab> abc__: right, but at long as you use a single start ACME will be self locking
[13:05:51] <abc__> I know but all I have is non ACME allthread and CNC trapeze ACME with 4 starts which is not self locking.
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[13:06:22] <abc__> I have to hunt the necessary thing this week. I have an atrociously bad bench vise, .cn, I have to make it work a bit better.
[13:07:03] <_unreal_> your rebuilding a bench vise? abc__
[13:07:12] <abc__> Anyone got a link on a vise in this style? https://www.yostvises.com less than $200...
[13:07:20] <abc__> that one is $200 and overkill for me.
[13:07:35] <abc__> _unreal_: I will improve it a bit, I can't have it destroy everything I put in it
[13:07:56] <abc__> http://www.yostvises.com product page. Note nice adjustable gibs
[13:08:32] -!- phiscribe has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
[13:08:40] <_unreal_> destroy everything you put in it?
[13:08:43] <_unreal_> uh.....
[13:08:44] <hazzy-lab> abc__: That is a very reasonable price for a decent looking vice ...
[13:09:08] <abc__> Yes but I need smaller, clamp mounted, and less heavy duty, but precise.
[13:09:12] <_unreal_> I'm not sure I follow. are you looking to get more TPI on the tension handle?
[13:09:34] <abc__> The thread in the current screw looks like M8 ... not nice.
[13:09:37] <abc__> Even when greased
[13:09:52] <pcw_home> Tom_L: I've looked at the Tinker but I'm not sure if a RT kernel will be easy for it since like most of these projects it does not use a stock Linux kernel
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[13:10:08] <abc__> Do ACME or trapeze or rectangular thread taps exist?
[13:10:23] <miss0r> yeah
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[13:10:31] <miss0r> They cost a bit more, but they're out there
[13:10:49] <abc__> Btw: devuan.org the systemd less debian is coming along nicely, I use it now on several machines, please consider as candidate for future live linuxcnc releases.
[13:10:57] <pcw_home> I'm messing with a "Potato" now their clain to fame is that they are trying to get all patched mainlined
[13:11:09] <miss0r> abc__: fist search first hit: https://www.ebay.co.uk
[13:11:12] <_unreal_> I'm still trying to understand how the vise is destroying thing on you?
[13:11:20] <abc__> Potato is ancient! I gave up on Etch upgrading to devuan ascii this year!
[13:11:40] <abc__> _unreal_: it has play and it's screw executes a spiral motion when tightened.
[13:11:52] <abc__> _unreal_: this tightens whatever is in it in a spiral crushing motion
[13:12:04] <abc__> So there will be copper shims and there will be a new screw
[13:12:08] <_unreal_> ahhh ok so your issue is more to do with the Jaws not staying parallel
[13:12:22] -!- phiscribe_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[13:12:24] <abc__> And a new knob likely. I hate the tightening bar.
[13:12:39] <_unreal_> thats more of a slide system then a thread issue I would think.......
[13:12:43] <miss0r> well. anything being damaged by not being clamped square, should never be mounted in a bench vise
[13:12:56] <_unreal_> miss0r, :)
[13:13:25] <miss0r> you should rather go get a milling or grinding vise, and hold that with your bench vise. Use the proper jaws to hold your workpeice
[13:13:27] <abc__> There are limits to what I would call linear motion you know. this vise seems to shimmy on a radius of about 1mm even when very nearly closed
[13:13:31] <_unreal_> abc__, I'm going to be honist...... a cheap new vise is prob going to do what you need for less then the cost and time of trying to modify your current vise
[13:13:47] <abc__> This is a cheap new vise.
[13:14:01] <abc__> I need it occasionally only so it is edge clamp type and utter crap
[13:14:05] <abc__> Cost $10 too.
[13:14:17] <abc__> Problem is, there's nothing between $10 and $100 in shops here
[13:14:19] <miss0r> abc__: if you are experiencing such issues, get a vise like this: https://www.ebay.co.uk
[13:14:33] <miss0r> and put a pair of softjaws in your benchvise to hold it with
[13:14:35] <_unreal_> abc__, where are you located? (country)
[13:14:45] <abc__> .ro
[13:14:55] <_unreal_> dont know .ro
[13:14:59] <miss0r> Romania?
[13:15:01] <_unreal_> ahh
[13:15:07] <miss0r> no - I'm asking too :D
[13:15:07] <abc__> I buy from hw stores and from the flea market, ads you post are useless excepting as hints about what to look for
[13:15:33] <miss0r> abc__: Any particular reason you can't order from the links I posted?
[13:15:40] <abc__> you got that right. I noticed we're all yanks here, the hams at least. Callsigns are Yankee Omega ...
[13:15:54] <abc__> miss0r: I very seldomly order from abroad there are problems with that.
[13:16:08] -!- borsin16 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
[13:16:25] <abc__> I know the style you propose, it is good, but on the cnc and mill, not for manual work
[13:16:30] <miss0r> abc__: I was not aware of that. But I do recognize your problem with not clamping square. Have you thought about making a pair of softjaws to take up the slack?
[13:16:42] <abc__> Yes.
[13:16:47] <miss0r> and.. ? :D
[13:17:03] <miss0r> Also, I'm not american - I'm from Denmark
[13:17:18] <abc__> I remember you from ##electronics
[13:17:40] <miss0r> heh, for nothing bad, I hope ;)
[13:17:56] <abc__> Something like this but smaller would be very nice http://www.elephantmfg.com
[13:18:19] <miss0r> I have one simular to that one.
[13:18:23] <miss0r> Only for light duty work
[13:18:43] <abc__> I'd prefer threaded main rod + quick unlock but hey
[13:18:48] <miss0r> What are you clamping, if you don't mind me asking?
[13:19:07] <abc__> Usually small parts, FR4, aluminum, brass. Seldomly mild steel
[13:19:25] <abc__> Also this is strictly for manual work, saw, file, dress, glue etc
[13:19:41] <miss0r> indeed. I don't suppose you have a milling machine?
[13:20:04] <abc__> I have access to cnc, drill press with xy table, etc. This is strictly for bench work.
[13:20:25] <miss0r> yeah - I was just thinking about the modifications you could make the that vise of yours, to get a good square clamp
[13:20:28] <abc__> drill/mill with *
[13:20:44] <abc__> Sure I can put it on the cnc and dress the jaws etc.
[13:20:45] <miss0r> Have you thought about closing the vise, and milling a step in the jaws?
[13:21:07] <abc__> Yes, but that is secondary to removing the monster play in the vise ways.
[13:21:14] <miss0r> theres a fair chance those two surfaces will stay square(within reason for a bench vise)
[13:21:32] <miss0r> the jaws or the "linear slide" ?
[13:21:43] <abc__> the "linear".
[13:22:06] <miss0r> question about that: was your bench vise like this from the start or have it worn into this state?
[13:22:31] * miss0r can't help think you are asking too much of a bench vise
[13:22:53] <abc__> https://www.youtube.com heh
[13:23:12] <abc__> I don't expect miracles but I do expect it to work as well as all vises I've used since I was 9yo or so
[13:23:38] <miss0r> What I think you should go look for is something like this design: https://www.ebay.com
[13:23:41] <miss0r> With the dovetails
[13:24:33] <miss0r> Even if that one is off by alot, you have the option to scrape it in, and make it realy nice. The issue with the more commen vise, is the absolutly slobby design.
[13:26:22] <abc__> Are these things completely crap or are they reasonably serviceable for light duty? https://www.harborfreight.com
[13:26:26] <miss0r> In my honnest opinion there is not much that can be done to improve the regular ones. Well, there is, but the amount of work you have to put in it hardly compares to getting a dovetail one
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[13:26:41] <abc__> miss0r: yes I know.
[13:26:49] <pcw_home> abc__: talking about hardware: "le Potato"
[13:27:24] <pcw_home> one of the many RPI clones
[13:27:27] <abc__> miss0r: yes the fox would be what I would buy here if I'd get it. But there isn't anything between $10 and $100, big gap.
[13:27:28] <miss0r> abc__: I would *not* recommend that particular design. unless you want something with even more slob
[13:27:41] <abc__> pcw_home: oh, I though Debian Potato. A blast from the past.
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[13:27:47] <abc__> miss0r: ah
[13:28:17] <miss0r> abc__: not to worrie. The good dovetail vises are a thing of the past :] unless you want to pay out big buck. I'd start looking at used markets for this design
[13:28:34] Guest35748 is now known as pjm
[13:29:03] <skunkworks> pjm!
[13:29:04] <abc__> I can look for a sh old one in the flea market
[13:29:13] <miss0r> abc_: heck, if you were already planning to spend alot of time restoring a vise, *AND* you have access to milling equipment, you could just make one ;)
[13:29:23] <abc__> Yeah, no. ;)
[13:29:27] <miss0r> :]
[13:29:59] <miss0r> I don't think the workload would change much compared to making a proper vise out of the other one ;)
[13:30:03] <abc__> Hmm interesting ideas https://www.woodcraft.com
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[13:30:20] <beachbumpete1> _unreal sorry I had a phone call
[13:30:33] <pjm> skunkworks, yo!
[13:30:53] <miss0r> abc__: Also, light duty. all vises where the load is handled by round ways have that fault in'em
[13:31:12] <abc__> miss0r: I do delicate work in it, it's okay
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[13:32:02] <miss0r> well, in that case :) They are good when it comes to squareness. UNLESS, you decide to clamp a small part off center. then it will do all sorts of crazy with you - again because the round ways can't handle the load
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[13:32:57] <miss0r> anyway. The wife is probally starting to wonder why I am taking this long to smoke a cigarette. I have to run. See you around
[13:32:57] <beachbumpete1> _unreal_
[13:33:09] * miss0r is off
[13:33:53] <abc__> Can one get nylon/abs jaws in most sizes?
[13:38:45] <abc__> https://www.woodcraft.com is this style okay? I like it, albeit a bit expensive for what I have in mind,
[13:38:51] <abc__> also looks solidly guided on all sides
[13:40:04] <abc__> It's about 80EUR it had better be good
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[13:43:32] <gloops> well, first 2 days as a vaper, conclusion - vaping is a lot better than i thought it would be
[13:43:47] <abc__> What was in the liquid? >;)
[13:43:57] <gloops> on the downside, im now addicted to vaping AND tobacco
[13:44:08] <abc__> lol. Good one gloops.
[13:44:21] <gloops> abc__ nothing unethical, just 18mg tobacco liquid
[13:51:20] <valentin_s> Hey guys, i'm Valentin, 19 year old student from germany. I'm new to LinuxCNC and would like to control my CNC mill with LinuxCNC. Could anyone of you help me getting my Setup with a Mesa 7i96 up and running? From what i've read, the card is fully supported but there are no clear steps to make it work :)
[13:51:48] <jthornton> use my 7i96 configuration tool
[13:52:03] <jthornton> https://github.com
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[13:54:12] <skunkworks> valentin_s seems like an open source plant for jt... ;)
[13:54:17] <hazzy-lab> valentin_s: Welcome!
[13:54:20] <hazzy-lab> you can be the Guinea pig on JT's 7i96 confg tool :)
[13:54:31] <valentin_s> Thanks, jthornton. This looks nice. I will defenitly test it
[13:54:40] <jthornton> lol I was first
[13:55:01] <hazzy-lab> jthornton: you don't count :P
[13:55:27] <jthornton> lol
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[13:58:31] <jthornton> I guess I should toss up a screen shot now
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[14:02:25] <valentin_s> as i'm understanding, your software will generate the bitfile and will flash it to the mesa card. From where do I get the hal and ini files then?
[14:03:39] <jthornton> no, the bit files are included with my files and yes if you need to change the bit file my software can flash the card
[14:04:06] <jthornton> first thing to do is read the card to make sure you have communications set up correctly
[14:04:39] <valentin_s> i can test this by the show pin command, right?
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[14:05:21] <jthornton> that is one way, you run my configuration software and select the IP address then press the read button
[14:14:48] <Jin^eLD> I wonder, can I get a pointer to a pin in a C component? somehing like p = &mypin; ?
[14:16:39] <Jin^eLD> or is hal_bit_t considered "internal"?
[14:16:52] <Jin^eLD> just want to make sure I don't violate anything :)
[14:20:38] <Tom_L> jthornton, did you just add hooks to mesaflash or write something else?
[14:21:41] <jthornton> well first I figured out if the pc is 32 bit or 64 bit then I just ran the proper mesaflash with the correct arguments
[14:24:06] <jthornton> valentin_s: I'll be monitoring the ##7i96 channel for any feedback
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[14:27:31] <XXCoder> “No, it isn’t truth. Truth isn’t truth,” Giuliani replied.
[14:32:19] -!- phiscribe has joined #linuxcnc
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[14:41:47] <gloops> Giuliani fixed all the broken windows
[14:45:03] <XXCoder> uggggh
[14:45:09] <XXCoder> smoke will be back tomorrow here
[14:45:27] <XXCoder> flipping great
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[14:52:06] <jthornton> rain here monday then cooler temps for a while
[14:53:02] <XXCoder> jt looks like 2 days of "fun" tomorrow and tues
[14:53:10] <XXCoder> 85f, 90f with heavier smoke
[14:54:21] <Tom_L> 73�F
[14:54:28] * jthornton tries to remember how to not run a method if the text got changed by the program and not the user...
[14:55:15] <gloops> 4 engineers get in a car that won't start.. Mechanical engineer- Probably the starter. Electrical engineer- Nope, the battery. Chemical engineer- Impurities in the gasoline! IT guy- Can we get out of the car and get in again?
[14:55:15] <XXCoder> is it function made by you? you could always add parameter "program update" so it dont call that method
[14:55:58] <XXCoder> make that parameter default to 0
[14:56:12] <hazzy-lab> gloops: LOL
[14:57:46] <abc__> IT/cs is the most recklessness allowing occupation today.
[14:58:06] <abc__> Nobody else is allowed to deploy a buggy update and kill 100 million PCs remotely and then try again
[14:58:07] <hazzy-lab> jthornton: is it a user input signal and you don't want to emit it if you change the value grammatically?
[14:58:21] <jthornton> if self.sender().objectName() == 'actionOpen':
[14:58:21] <jthornton> return
[14:58:27] <jthornton> yup
[14:59:29] <XXCoder> abc__: yeah its getting to be serious problenm
[15:09:19] <XXCoder> i'm apparently an Xennial
[15:10:00] <XXCoder> https://mymodernmet.com
[15:10:03] -!- blacksyke24 has joined #linuxcnc
[15:10:43] <XXCoder> lot of list isnt for me, as it all related to audio lol
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[15:16:26] <fragalot_> hey
[15:17:01] <fragalot_> miss0r: https://imgur.com .. in a pinch.
[15:17:49] <XXCoder> if there was such thing as antifuse... that is it
[15:18:25] <XXCoder> blue one dont look good.
[15:18:43] <XXCoder> "My favorite is the blue one. You can see how many times it's saved you from having to buy a new fuse."
[15:19:29] <fragalot_> :P
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[15:22:26] <Tom_L> not load balanced very well
[15:22:51] -!- savoir-faire20 has joined #linuxcnc
[15:23:11] <XXCoder> nor is it fused well. they failed so bad that they have antifuses
[15:23:55] -!- deawe has joined #linuxcnc
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[15:28:03] <fragalot_> sigyn needs to step up his game
[15:28:18] <fragalot_> that kill took a full 4 minutes
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[15:36:57] <gloops> wheres Ichsguckslive these days?
[15:37:07] <XXCoder> he uses different nick for now
[15:37:10] <fragalot_> he goes by seasomething now
[15:37:16] <XXCoder> gucklive something>/
[15:37:17] <hazzy-lab> gloops, he does as sealive not
[15:37:20] <hazzy-lab> now*
[15:37:24] <gloops> i see thanks
[15:37:25] <Deejay> undercover? ;)
[15:37:27] <XXCoder> ah yes sealive
[15:37:34] <XXCoder> nah register required now
[15:38:02] <Deejay> ah jo, syyl has also problems writing ;)
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[15:39:32] <gloops> +r seems a bit of a draconian measure
[15:39:45] <fragalot_> Deejay: had*
[15:39:46] <XXCoder> its not +r
[15:40:01] <gloops> what is it then?
[15:40:02] <XXCoder> its silent on $~a! or something
[15:40:06] <Deejay> ah okay
[15:40:10] <XXCoder> so people can enter but cant speak
[15:40:14] <fragalot_> it's just +cnt
[15:40:16] <XXCoder> unless registered
[15:40:36] <gloops> -freenode-connect- Due to the persistent ongoing spam, all new connections are being set +R (block messages from unidentified users)
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[15:40:48] <XXCoder> thats for messages
[15:41:15] <XXCoder> funny because I never got any spam message, probably because im far down list abcs wise
[15:41:53] <gloops> me neither
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[16:03:24] * jthornton should haul another bucket of dirt to the chicken yard before the rain starts
[16:09:45] <pfred1> they said it is supposed to rain here today I'll believe it when I see it
[16:10:07] <Deejay> please send me all your rain
[16:10:18] <pfred1> yeah we've been pretty dry lately
[16:10:29] <pfred1> was wet in the spring though
[16:10:51] <pfred1> pretty much ruined all of my tomatoes
[16:12:17] <jthornton> it's been unusually wet this month here
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[16:12:25] <pfred1> not here
[16:12:37] <pfred1> we usually have a dry spell in the summer though
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[17:17:02] <Deejay> gn8
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[17:18:53] <_unreal_> beachbumpete1, I'll be around in a few hours. helping my nearly 70yo father install a gutter on his house
[17:19:26] <_unreal_> and following his "palm to face" direction on how it "WILL" be done....... I could have been done hours ago
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[17:21:23] <gloops> lol
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[17:32:05] <Loetmichel> _unreal_: easy thing: "you want it done THAT way? PLEASE, be my guest. Do it yourself. Bye!"
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[17:46:53] <_unreal_> got to love florida rain. rain dealy
[17:46:57] <_unreal_> delay
[17:48:04] <_unreal_> I told him, look all we have to do is mark all of are HOLES to be piloted. pilot the holes in the same location on the back. put the Gutter section up into place mark the first hole
[17:48:34] <_unreal_> Go to the other end. Mark the last hole SNAP a line and pilot holes at the same mesurments...
[17:48:55] <_unreal_> I got told I was daft... we need to mark the bottom of the gutter so we know where it is........
[17:49:25] <_unreal_> and dont forget this is seemless gutters so the entire run MUST be joined before install.. nearly 40' long
[17:49:44] <_unreal_> aluminum seamless
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[17:52:20] <_unreal_> Ok so as to cnc stuff. do any of you know of a pulse generator that will feed steps or close loop data TO linuxcnc? What I'm looking for is to setup a cnc machine with a pulse generator That can also take an MPG pendent input. pass that data TO linux cnc or run with out the computer on. That way I can just JOG the machine..... to do tasks OR run it with the higher level computer input
[17:52:57] <_unreal_> pfred1, Where the hell do I know that nick from
[17:53:49] <pfred1> I've been around
[17:54:23] <_unreal_> ya I've used this handle for 20 years
[17:54:50] <pfred1> I used goofy nicks years ago
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[17:55:18] <_unreal_> pfred1, so I have this BASE https://drive.google.com I'm toying making my X the long axis
[17:55:31] <_unreal_> and Y the short axis......
[17:55:51] <pfred1> that looks pretty solid
[17:56:10] <_unreal_> its all I beams on the under side
[17:56:20] <_unreal_> I mean the entire under side
[17:56:26] <_unreal_> theres like 5 or 6
[17:56:28] <_unreal_> in the middle
[17:56:51] <pfred1> it still isn't webbed and aged cast iron
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[17:57:03] <_unreal_> It was the base for a massive transformer in a super yacht
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[17:57:07] <pfred1> but what is?
[17:57:23] <_unreal_> the thing is Flat as can be
[17:57:37] <pfred1> has it been blanchard ground?
[17:57:45] <_unreal_> no
[17:57:54] <pfred1> then it can likely be flatter
[17:58:00] <_unreal_> There could even been some indintations I dont know.
[17:58:12] <pfred1> I'm sure it is flat enough
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[17:58:29] <pfred1> I use a scrap piece of particle board as my table
[17:58:48] <pfred1> it seems to be flat enough
[17:58:58] <_unreal_> I'm building a massivly over built stupid strong CNC
[17:59:07] <_unreal_> because of this base. I may as well
[17:59:12] <pfred1> a This Old Tony CNC machine?
[17:59:21] <_unreal_> ?
[17:59:30] <pfred1> YouTube channel
[17:59:38] <_unreal_> dont know
[18:00:06] <pfred1> https://www.youtube.com
[18:00:19] <_unreal_> if you where building this to be stupid strong moving gantry. What would you use for rails and gauge.
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[18:04:56] <pfred1> Tony has some nice toys
[18:05:38] <_unreal_> hum
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[18:12:10] <jthornton> _unreal_: I'd build it like this http://gnipsel.com
[18:12:16] <jthornton> oh wait I did build that
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[18:12:52] <gloops> '
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[18:17:57] <gloops> _unreal_ what type of machine? router?
[18:18:03] <_unreal_> ya
[18:19:01] <gloops> hmm, i reckon that base will be good, may need a bit of shimming or grinding to get the rails flat
[18:19:31] <gloops> probably fit a spoil board that can be skimmed off flat
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[18:31:25] <Tom_L> ok, i got the mill trammed again after adding the risers to Z
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[18:38:16] <_unreal_> gloops, I'm going to make one thats VERY heavy duty
[18:39:47] <pfred1> I made one pretty lightweight
[18:40:14] <pfred1> now i have to get my CAM software setup, again
[18:41:01] <gloops> well mine is pretty heavy duty, worth considering that strength isnt everything, accuracy and speed are also important
[18:41:20] <gloops> the heavy slab will be good for resonance reduction
[18:42:10] <Tom_L> picked up another 14 x 8 x 1.5" slab for mine the other day
[18:46:21] <Tom_L> shame on him for drilling & tapping right over the ballscrew
[18:46:38] <Tom_L> This Old Tony..
[18:46:53] <gloops> to use for the machine Tom_L? or to make something with
[18:46:54] <pfred1> he can afford to buy a new one
[18:47:08] <Tom_L> gloops, sacrificial plate
[18:47:16] <gloops> ahh right
[18:47:23] <Tom_L> i wanted a bit bigger one
[18:48:49] <pfred1> don't we all?
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[18:53:54] <Tom_L> gloops, how's your router workin for ya now?
[18:56:00] <gloops> its fine, i did some ally cutting last week, just trials, was fine with .2mm cut, mrs is off work atm so wont be starting much with it for a week or two, also just got a new PC for drawing today, so switching stuff over to that
[18:56:19] <Tom_L> nice
[18:56:50] <gloops> it is going into production soon lol, ive been saying that for months but been one thing after another
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[19:04:06] <_unreal_> I dont know if this link will work https://photos.google.com
[19:05:20] <_unreal_> Moving gantry
[19:07:00] <_unreal_> ?
[19:07:14] <_unreal_> work?
[19:07:58] <gloops> no
[19:09:00] <_unreal_> what is the error
[19:09:21] <gloops> i get 404
[19:10:18] <_unreal_> ok
[19:11:01] <_unreal_> https://photos.google.com
[19:11:03] <_unreal_> how about that?
[19:11:29] <Tom_L> yup
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[19:12:07] <gloops> yeah can see that - wouldnt reccomend those type of linear ways though
[19:12:23] <_unreal_> My daughte helping when I built it...... I think she was 4 https://photos.google.com
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[19:13:37] <_unreal_> The hell I went through to align the Z was murder https://photos.google.com
[19:13:46] <gloops> heh, i dont know how you managed to get a daughter interested, none of mine were
[19:14:07] <_unreal_> she was 4
[19:15:21] <_unreal_> It has a lot more flex then I'd like it to have
[19:15:32] <_unreal_> in the Z
[19:15:52] <gloops> whats the gantry made of?
[19:15:56] <_unreal_> But that has to do with out I build the Z rails. I was dirt train broke at the time. Xwife etc....
[19:16:07] <_unreal_> the entire machine is made of G10 firberglass
[19:16:23] <_unreal_> I was working for Hinckleys. very well known yacht manufacture
[19:16:26] <gloops> hmm, fairly rigid at that thickness
[19:16:27] <_unreal_> been around for 100 years
[19:16:37] <_unreal_> everything is rigid till you get to Z
[19:17:11] <gloops> a lot of that might be the x rails lifting
[19:17:27] <_unreal_> the little platform has about +/- 2mills defelection at about 5 lbs of force. just guessing
[19:17:49] <_unreal_> no
[19:18:05] <_unreal_> its the Top of the Z the stepped attachments
[19:18:59] <_unreal_> I wanted to just use rails. pillow blocks but when I built the machine they were WAY expensive
[19:19:10] <_unreal_> 1' was like $100
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[19:20:03] <_unreal_> all the rails flex a little
[19:20:22] <_unreal_> if I ever get it finished. it will be a great little engraver
[19:20:23] <gloops> i forget how much i paid now, for sbr16 rails + ballscrews @1350mm - about £200
[19:21:13] <_unreal_> I was building this when my Xwife decided she wanted a divorce out of the blue.....
[19:21:33] <gloops> should have told her to wait a couple of years
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[19:22:11] <_unreal_> Thats an other topic regardless
[19:22:26] <gloops> i made my first one with skate bearings and chain, it was a good learning exercise - in how not to build a router
[19:22:36] <_unreal_> So I'm trying to design a cnc controller that has an off line function control
[19:23:07] <gloops> still pretty amazing to see the thing cut knowing it was just a pile of scrap metal and bicycle parts
[19:23:24] <_unreal_> What I really want is a pulse generator that keeps track of the machines location and can take an mpg pendent input. for basic control
[19:23:45] <_unreal_> or boot up the computer for linuxcnc or mach3 leaning twards linuxcnc
[19:24:00] <_unreal_> thinking about using a UDOO board
[19:24:27] <_unreal_> $50 multi core nearly 2ghz cpu and 2gb ram
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[19:25:19] <gloops> hmm, not sure about those, its all about the latency you know
[19:25:35] <_unreal_> I'm sorry tinker board
[19:25:38] <_unreal_> is the one
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[19:26:28] <_unreal_> latency BS....... look at "turbocnc" ran on a 386 20mhz over parallel port just fine
[19:26:41] <_unreal_> its overhead. bloated overhead
[19:27:29] <_unreal_> Part of the reason why I keep an old ibm pentium 200 laptop :)
[19:28:47] <gloops> yes, very slowly
[19:29:45] <pfred1> my Z axis is skate bearings
[19:29:56] <gloops> another drawback - no parport on the laptop
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[19:30:52] <gloops> why dont you part with $15 pfred1 and fit some proper rails
[19:31:02] <pfred1> because it works fine as it is
[19:31:13] <Tenacious-Techhu> What's the feature called when the end-effector follows constant velocity NURBS paths rather than curves approximated by chords?
[19:31:16] <pfred1> rails would not do anything for me
[19:32:11] <pfred1> OK rails would be extra work form e to install so they have that going for them
[19:32:28] <gloops> well tbh ive got bearings on my z, but theyre not ordinary bearings, theyre in rollon rails
[19:34:57] <gloops> https://www.rollon.com
[19:35:08] <gloops> exactly those - £20 used
[19:35:28] <gloops> you can still do it cheap and get good results if you shop around
[19:36:01] <pfred1> it is the doing it part that I can't get around right now
[19:36:18] <pfred1> I did a lot to get my machine going
[19:36:28] <pfred1> now I am doing other things
[19:36:31] <gloops> i know how you feel
[19:36:42] <pfred1> someday I'll build another machine
[19:36:48] <pfred1> but it won't be today
[19:37:37] <gloops> i need 3 years rest before i attempt another gantry machine
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[19:38:02] <pfred1> I built this PC because of polar patterns in FreeCAD
[19:38:22] <gloops> nightmare, ive never whittled away and filed and sweated over niggling bits and bobs so much in my life
[19:38:23] <pfred1> my old machine just took forever doing that
[19:38:53] <pfred1> I don't even have FreeCAD setup on this machine right now though
[19:39:01] <gloops> what are those - polar patterns?
[19:39:17] <pfred1> when you put a bunch of repeating junk around a circle like teeth on a gear
[19:39:34] <gloops> oh like circular array
[19:39:39] <pfred1> yes
[19:40:04] <pfred1> apparently the math doing that can be challenging
[19:40:18] <pfred1> because my old Core 2 really had a hard time of it
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[19:40:45] <pfred1> so now i have a faster 4 core system
[19:41:23] <gloops> well, i was managing ok on a 32 bit up to now, i got a 64 bit today
[19:41:28] <pfred1> but screwing around with this PC has been time consuming
[19:41:55] <pfred1> I just put a SSD in it last week so I'm starting all over again with it
[19:42:32] <pfred1> when I put in a video card I had to start all over again with that
[19:43:21] <pfred1> if i have to install another OS I think I'm going to scream
[19:43:56] <pfred1> this one had better last me a good 5 years
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[19:45:46] <pfred1> check out this custom front panel I made for it https://i.imgur.com
[19:46:05] <pfred1> precision
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[19:46:45] <pfred1> it's in there tighter than a duck's ass
[19:46:50] <gloops> lol
[19:46:57] <gloops> well, nice job
[19:47:00] <pfred1> ta
[19:47:11] <gloops> was this really an economical use of time though?
[19:47:31] <pfred1> not really but I didn't like what was available
[19:47:45] <pfred1> I had to do that offset because of the length of cable that I used
[19:47:58] <pfred1> if I centered them it wouldn't have reached
[19:48:25] <gloops> theres always some snag
[19:48:30] <gloops> time for bed here anyway
[19:48:31] <pfred1> I went with the 30cm as opposed to 50cm
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[19:49:25] <Tenacious-Techhu> Has any progress been made on the NURBS blocks?
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[20:19:36] <_unreal_> bed? must be in UK
[20:19:40] <_unreal_> I'm in florida
[20:19:44] <_unreal_> 8pm here
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[20:55:18] <Tenacious-Techhu> Which 3D Printers and slicers have constant velocity NURBS path printing?
[20:56:03] <XXCoder> currently, none.
[20:56:19] <XXCoder> someones working on it but dunno if will ever finish
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[21:26:31] <Tenacious-Techhu> XXCoder, based on what available information do you say that?
[21:27:26] <XXCoder> linuxcnc and its fork, machinekit is only open source controllers that can do this.
[21:27:32] <XXCoder> rest is closed source
[21:27:52] <XXCoder> 3d printers so far I know all use marlin and various other open source firmware
[21:29:36] <Tenacious-Techhu> XXCoder, first you said nothing could do it, now you're saying that linuxcnc and machinekit can; which is it?
[21:29:52] <XXCoder> linuxcnc and machinekit dont do 3d printers in most case
[21:30:23] <XXCoder> I think some people is working on adding some gcode op codes specific to 3d printing to those but not too sure.
[21:31:16] <Tenacious-Techhu> XXCoder, is there a list of 3D Printers that use machinekit?
[21:31:54] <Tenacious-Techhu> Also, can you point out specifically where in machinekit or linuxcnc constant velocity NURBS paths are supported?
[21:36:41] <XXCoder> http://linuxcnc.org
[21:37:14] <XXCoder> pretty cool eh
[21:37:51] <XXCoder> wish more people worked on docs
[21:42:57] <Tenacious-Techhu> I thought g6.1 was for NURBS blocks.
[21:43:59] <XXCoder> apparently not. g6 is empty
[21:44:44] <XXCoder> reprap its "direcy stepper move"
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[21:56:38] <Tenacious-Techhu> XXCoder, anything using opensbp?
[21:56:50] <XXCoder> openbsp not sure what that is
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[21:57:51] <Tenacious-Techhu> ShopBot created an open-source alternative to gcode.
[21:58:05] <XXCoder> interesting
[21:58:27] <XXCoder> openbsp result all quake and game maps lol
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[21:58:56] <pfred1> I still need to install Quake
[21:58:59] <XXCoder> ah no wonder I made a spelinag mistake lol
[21:59:27] <pfred1> I got my gzdoom running already though
[22:00:03] <pfred1> ./gzdoom +sv_cheats 1 -iwad DOOM2.WAD -file Annie-E1.zip
[22:00:10] <Tenacious-Techhu> XXCoder, you might be getting scroogled. http://www.shopbottools.com
[22:00:35] <XXCoder> already reading that pdf :)
[22:01:30] <enleth> XXCoder: actually I'm pretty sure you could run a 3D printer using linuxcnc spiced up with a little ladder logic and a CAM that maps extrusion speed (including negative) to "spindle" speed
[22:01:58] <XXCoder> enleth: reprap uses axis E for extruder
[22:02:02] <XXCoder> so dont really need that
[22:02:17] <XXCoder> all remains really, is temperate control and pid for bed and hotend
[22:02:47] <XXCoder> pink vamp once made her mill a 3d printer by simply stripping those gcodes out and manually controlling temperate
[22:03:04] <pfred1> linuxcnc can do a laser pwm right?
[22:04:09] <enleth> that's really a matter of design choice, a fake axis is perhaps a bit better if you have a really good, predictable extruder that can actually make use of precise filament feed control
[22:05:09] <enleth> anyway, if anyone wanted to, they can drive a 3D printer with linuxcnc right now
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[22:05:50] <pfred1> there are linuxcnc robot welders right?
[22:05:56] <enleth> there just might be a couple non-obvious and creative solutions required for some small problems
[22:06:21] <pfred1> 3D printing can't be that much different from wire feed welding
[22:07:12] <enleth> pfred1: it kinda is in that you have some inertia in the extruder and actually want to back the filament off pretty often to reduce nozzle pressure
[22:07:29] <enleth> but that's handled at the CAM level
[22:07:29] <pfred1> hmm
[22:08:10] <XXCoder> yeah slicers configure how it retracts and pressure advance
[22:08:34] <enleth> and I guess having the extruder and heated bed temperature control built-in as G-codes would be convenient and nice
[22:08:48] <enleth> but it's hardly a blocker that they aren't
[22:08:56] <pfred1> I've thouht about it and about all I ever came up with for me using a 3D printer would be making custom connectors
[22:09:04] <XXCoder> theres also bed level gcode but yeah
[22:09:29] <pfred1> for what a 3D printer costs I could bu ya lot of connectors though
[22:10:00] <enleth> XXCoder: pretty sure that's also doable with ladder and some M-codes
[22:11:01] <enleth> pfred1: well, there are uses, *if* you can afford a printer that's decent enough to not crap out on you half the time, ruining your prints
[22:11:14] <enleth> it's an amazing tech, *when* it works
[22:11:33] <pfred1> yea hI see people using them
[22:11:57] <pfred1> some folks get great use but they're doing things I don't do
[22:12:11] <enleth> here at the hackerspace, everyone uses the laser cutter as long as they can redesign their 3D stuff into a bunch of interlocking flat parts
[22:12:35] <pfred1> is it a tube laser?
[22:12:36] <enleth> using a 3D printer is kind of a last resort when something really can't be done on the laser
[22:12:45] <enleth> 60W CO2 tube, yes
[22:12:58] <pfred1> how many hours does the tube run?
[22:13:04] <pfred1> like before you need a new one
[22:13:44] <enleth> no idea really, we've had to replace it two times in three years or so by now, but no one's keeping any usage stats really
[22:14:01] <pfred1> that's not bad at all if it is used a lot
[22:14:04] <Tenacious-Techhu> On the subject of Laser Cutting, is there any nice software for going from a mathematics equation to a NURBS path?
[22:14:24] <pfred1> I've heard some scary hours times with some laser tubes
[22:14:28] <pfred1> like 60 hours
[22:14:56] <enleth> that's either a dud tube, or improperly cooled
[22:15:09] <pfred1> some just get pushed hard
[22:15:20] <pfred1> that's like for 40W lasers
[22:15:21] <enleth> or improperly used, yes
[22:15:42] <enleth> the small chinese lasers come with an aquarium pump that you dunk in a water bucket, and that's most definitely inadequate
[22:15:52] <pfred1> bumping up the power yo uget more than just more power I guess
[22:15:56] <enleth> you need some sort of a radiator with active airflow
[22:16:15] <XXCoder> just grab car heater core and add a fan
[22:16:21] <enleth> that works
[22:16:21] <pfred1> you get some headroom where you're not pushing the equipment so hard
[22:16:48] <enleth> we're using an airport X-ray cooling subsystem because that's what we had and it's a little bit of an overkill, but works perfectly
[22:17:01] <enleth> should be good up to a 120W tube or so
[22:17:14] <pfred1> seems to be paying off
[22:17:52] <enleth> and the thing with using the laser is, by the time you're done cutting your fourth and final iteration of the parts you needed, the 3D printer will have just about finished fucking up your first print
[22:18:08] <enleth> that thing is *fast*
[22:18:11] <enleth> and very easy to use
[22:18:13] <pfred1> heh 3D printing is pretty slow
[22:18:23] <XXCoder> I do want a laser machine but eh
[22:18:38] <pfred1> I want a little 5W diode laser for my CNC
[22:18:41] <enleth> it takes about 15 minutes of training for a reasonable person to be able to use it safely and efficently
[22:18:53] <pfred1> I want to try doing photo resist with it
[22:19:25] <enleth> sure it is a slight fire risk, but that's why you don't leave it unattended and keep a fire extinguisher nearby
[22:19:58] <pfred1> could flood the cabinet with CO2
[22:20:19] <enleth> just get a manual CO2 extinguisher
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[22:20:42] <enleth> which really is just a CO2 welding tank paintet red and fitted with a nozzle but no regulator
[22:20:53] <enleth> *painted
[22:20:53] <XXCoder> would be interesting if had stirling air liquidifer and still to seperate others out of co2
[22:20:53] <pfred1> yeah?
[22:21:09] <XXCoder> then use that to spray on laser focus so fire cant happen :P
[22:21:20] <XXCoder> though bit unsafe in enclosed spaces
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[22:21:48] <pfred1> I'd love my own air liquifier tower
[22:22:31] <pfred1> I have just the place for it on the property
[22:22:32] <enleth> XXCoder: actually, you're supposed to hook up compressed air to most cutters, which is then expelled through the lens orifice, to keep smoke from clouding up the lens, and to blow out any fire in the stock
[22:23:02] <pfred1> yeah air is mostly nitrogen
[22:23:18] <XXCoder> that would work better actually
[22:23:21] <XXCoder> much more common
[22:23:28] <Tenacious-Techhu> XXCoder, linuxcnc may be using the wrong gcode value for NURBS: https://all3dp.com
[22:23:28] <enleth> again, the cheap lasers come with those funny little air pumps that kinda work, but it works much better with actual shop air
[22:23:47] <pfred1> if it weren't for photosynthetic life there would be no free oxygen in the atmosphere
[22:23:56] <enleth> definitely a must for higher powers at low feed rates for thick material
[22:24:03] <pfred1> oxygen is air pollution!
[22:24:05] <XXCoder> Tenacious-Techhu: that site uses gray text gray background for code examples. I cannot read it
[22:25:04] <pfred1> just highlight it
[22:25:16] <pfred1> or override style
[22:25:18] <Tenacious-Techhu> XXCoder, just do a find for g06.1, and highlight the text block, please. ^_^;
[22:25:30] <enleth> anyway, if you're doing any sort of prototyping, I highly recommend getting a CO2 laser, even a cheap one has a lot of uses
[22:25:40] <enleth> I can't think of a better prototyping tool, to be honest
[22:25:51] <pfred1> I got a hack saw
[22:25:57] <XXCoder> hmm interesting
[22:26:03] <enleth> maybe a waterjet, but that's at least tenfold cost difference
[22:26:13] <XXCoder> other doc was updated at 2014 I think so it may be old
[22:26:25] <pfred1> I met a guy that had his own water jet he was the real nervous type
[22:26:52] <pfred1> he had like a million dollar loan out for it with the bank
[22:27:42] <pfred1> he said he could stack steel plates a foot tall and cut through them all at once though
[22:28:01] <enleth> you can get a working CO2 cutter for $1000, I think, one of those K40 clones - that's what we got, it's been refitted with that 60W tube by now, a 100W power supply (bought used locally) and that X-ray cooling system
[22:28:05] <XXCoder> ehh doesnt it gets conic cut secton
[22:28:35] <XXCoder> meaning lowest patts would have smaller outsde dimensions and larger inside dimensions>
[22:29:02] <pfred1> he was making decorative panels
[22:29:10] <Tenacious-Techhu> XXCoder, found another one: https://www.wittystore.com
[22:29:28] <Tenacious-Techhu> That one specifically mentions 5.1 as not being NURBS, and 6.1 as being NURBS.
[22:29:43] <enleth> pfred1: you can get a very basic and very small waterjet for $50k or so, not sure what it can do but I've seen some for sale
[22:29:44] <Tenacious-Techhu> So it looks like you guys need to modernize your commands. ^_^:
[22:29:54] <XXCoder> or rather, update docs
[22:30:06] <XXCoder> gray on gray again.
[22:30:11] <pfred1> enleth this guy was cutting 4x8 sheets
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[22:30:33] <Tenacious-Techhu> Actually, that might just be a cut and paste of the previous site... I hate it when the internet does that.
[22:30:56] <enleth> pfred1: sounds like he was on a fast track to pay off that loan then
[22:31:30] <pfred1> enleth the day I hung around him his work wasn't exactly flying out the door
[22:31:40] <pfred1> in fact I don't remember seeing him sell anything
[22:31:57] <pfred1> he wanted like $345 a panel
[22:32:08] <XXCoder> whats tols like?
[22:32:55] <pfred1> stuff was beautiful though like you sanded every edge
[22:33:43] <enleth> BTW, I'm planning to replicate one guy's attempt at making a waterjet cutter out of a pressure washer pump, his results were useful enough to warrant trying it
[22:33:54] <pfred1> I saw that video
[22:34:08] <enleth> but with a triplex pump, should be way nicer and more consistent
[22:34:13] <pfred1> he's citting on a lamp duffuser
[22:34:32] <pfred1> cutton on a lamp diffuser even
[22:34:56] <pfred1> it looks pretty sketchy
[22:36:21] <pfred1> I seen people hating on plasma cutters
[22:36:26] <enleth> not sure if we're talking the same video - I mean the guy who bought an actual waterjet nozzle and mixing chamber, hooked that up to a slightly modified pressure washer and stuck it to a Bridgeport mill for position control
[22:36:57] <pfred1> nah guy I saw was cutting manually like he was holding the work in his hands and passing it under the jet
[22:37:07] <enleth> might be someone else
[22:37:29] <enleth> that guy actually had some nice, consistent CNC-controlled cuts
[22:37:30] <pfred1> his jet could barely cut soft wood
[22:37:46] <enleth> 3mm aluminum, 1mm steel, didn't try anything thicker
[22:37:55] <pfred1> if i was there I'd have handed him an X-Acto saw
[22:38:23] <enleth> to be honest, if I can replicate the cuts he got in aluminum, I'd call it a success
[22:38:41] <enleth> if it handles 2mm steel too, a huge success
[22:38:50] <pfred1> I don't like aluminum
[22:39:07] <enleth> that means I could cut spring steel, there's a ton of uses for that
[22:39:29] <pfred1> you one of them knife makers?
[22:39:56] <enleth> no, thin spring steel for flexures
[22:40:04] <pfred1> I buy knives at yard sales for like 50 cents I just don't see the point in making knives
[22:40:12] <enleth> I don't either
[22:40:21] <pfred1> nice knives
[22:40:40] <enleth> waterjet is pretty much the only way to cut thin spring steel properly without overheating it and ruining the heat treatment
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[22:41:02] <enleth> by "thin" i mean 0.6mm-2mm
[22:41:08] <pfred1> once i bought some cryo henckels knives for 50 cents each
[22:41:39] <pfred1> there's some really dumb people out there
[22:42:50] <Tenacious-Techhu> I wouldn't bother CNCing a knife. I might take a CNC machine to an already made knife, to give it some etching, but that's it.
[22:42:57] <pfred1> the last knife i bought was this ugly little pocket knife
[22:43:17] <pfred1> so I get it home and I'm trying to make out the name on it and i get bummed out because i never heard of it
[22:43:31] <pfred1> turns out it is this super rare and collectible knife
[22:43:47] <XXCoder> Tenacious-Techhu: unless its for fun. why not?
[22:44:06] <XXCoder> cnc knife then engrave super complex pattern all over it
[22:44:30] <Tenacious-Techhu> XXCoder, because you'd get a better knife just buying it off the shelf and then engraving a pattern into that.
[22:44:45] <XXCoder> yeah
[22:44:46] <pfred1> yeah knives are mass produced
[22:44:51] <Tenacious-Techhu> The only knife-like objects I would bother to CNC are fake cosplay weapons, if I were to even bother.
[22:45:09] <pfred1> they're not good candidates for on demand manufacturing
[22:45:43] <Tenacious-Techhu> Now, if you can give me a CNC machine that can take over for a blacksmith smashing his hammer on steel, then you could start making, say, katanas with a ridiculous number of folds.
[22:45:47] <_unreal_> I think I'm going to buy this https://www.amazon.com
[22:45:49] <Tenacious-Techhu> Now that, that is worth something.
[22:45:56] <_unreal_> its pin compatable with the rpi
[22:47:10] <XXCoder> for linuxcnc?
[22:47:30] <Tom_L> that's what he's thinking
[22:47:40] <enleth> Tenacious-Techhu: hypothetically, a 6R robot operating a power hammer might be able to do that, but I don't think anyone's ever tried it
[22:48:10] <Tenacious-Techhu> enleth, yeah, I don't think so either. But would it be awesome? Hell yeah.
[22:48:31] <Tenacious-Techhu> In comparison, cutting a knife shape out of some sheet steel and sharpening it, well, meh.
[22:49:02] <Tenacious-Techhu> Imagine, for a moment; a katana blade with a million folds to it.
[22:49:04] <XXCoder> theres this japanese channel of guy making and sharping knives out of all kinds of materials
[22:49:09] <enleth> you'd need some really good image recognition and realtime result assessment to do what a human blacksmith does when planning the next blow
[22:49:27] <XXCoder> pasta knife was sharpest for while till fiberglass finally dethoned it
[22:49:32] <pfred1> can't we alloy steel better today than folding it?
[22:49:44] <enleth> definitely doable with today's technology, and definitely belongs in the loony bin of ideas
[22:49:48] <Tenacious-Techhu> XXCoder, the dehydrated jello knife did pretty well, too.
[22:50:02] <enleth> mind you, I'd be the first person to say it's cool if someone did it
[22:50:25] <XXCoder> yeah
[22:50:41] <pfred1> back in the day folding steel had certain advantages over other methods
[22:50:48] <Tenacious-Techhu> Anyone know where I can find the list of gcode commands slicer supports?
[22:51:19] <Tenacious-Techhu> pfred1, I think it was mostly about mixing and oxidizing the steel.
[22:51:24] <enleth> pfred1: forging a blade is also about getting slightly different properties of the steel in different parts of that blade
[22:51:32] <Tenacious-Techhu> The mixing we got better at; not sure about oxidizing.
[22:51:35] <pfred1> yes
[22:51:46] <enleth> you could probably emulate that with a good alloy steel and selective induction hardening
[22:51:51] <pfred1> I'm not sure if oxidizing is desirable with steel
[22:52:11] <enleth> as in, hardening the cutting edge but leaving the rest softer
[22:52:21] <pfred1> though that is how the Bessemer Process works
[22:52:38] <pfred1> they would shoot oxygen through a melt to burn out carbon
[22:53:24] <pfred1> you'd burn the steel to super heat it
[22:54:21] <enleth> oh, actually, robotic forging is a thing, but for much bigger parts
[22:54:39] <pfred1> robotoc everything is going to be a thing
[22:54:48] <enleth> like ship propeller shafts for tankers
[22:55:04] <pfred1> I saw them making a big ship propeller once
[22:55:15] <pfred1> right on the sidewalk in Hoboken
[22:58:21] <Tenacious-Techhu> Does Slic3r do non-polygonal obj files?
[23:02:29] <XXCoder> none of slicers use g2 g3
[23:02:45] <XXCoder> they all use coord sections so they all come poly
[23:03:12] <XXCoder> someone in reprap is working on true curve support but it may be while
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[23:09:32] <Tenacious-Techhu> XXCoder, is there a chart with the slicers on it, and what gcode they currently support?
[23:09:58] <XXCoder> dont know if there is one
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[23:13:05] <_unreal_> ordering this as well https://www.amazon.com
[23:13:20] <_unreal_> Tom_L, do you not agree with that for linuxcnc?
[23:13:30] <_unreal_> quad core 1.8ghz 2gb ram?
[23:13:36] <XXCoder> thats pretty cool display
[23:14:50] <enleth> _unreal_: seeing how the rpi's SoC is an architectural disaster, I'd steer clear of it for any hardware control just out of principle
[23:15:22] <Tom_L> not many (none i know of) are using arm for linuxcnc
[23:15:46] <_unreal_> considering that board is 8X more powerful then the ARM I dont see it being an issue
[23:15:57] <_unreal_> could even run winblows on it
[23:16:01] <Tom_L> latency is the concern
[23:16:07] <_unreal_> but I dont think I want to use mach3
[23:16:30] <_unreal_> Tom_L, I'm using grbl arduino as the pulse generator
[23:16:48] <_unreal_> I'm not worried about latency
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[23:18:10] <Tenacious-Techhu> In principle, ARM is a better choice than X86, but underlying software may be an issue.
[23:18:35] <Tenacious-Techhu> It doesn't matter how good the software is if the OS software isn't properly supported.
[23:18:50] <Tenacious-Techhu> Err, how good the hardware is, I mean.
[23:20:46] <_unreal_> Tenacious-Techhu, I agree fully. look at TURBOCNC that will run on a 386 driving a parallel port and still get 15khz step rates
[23:22:40] <_unreal_> Tenacious-Techhu, I'm looking at getting https://www.ebay.com
[23:25:17] <_unreal_> the RPI pololu driver with the external driver board conversion adapters. to put on the tinkerboard because its compatable pin for pin. and the LCD touch monitor is as well
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[23:32:10] <_unreal_> ?
[23:33:33] <Tenacious-Techhu> Sorry, did you have a question in there somewhere?
[23:35:02] <pfred1> pololu drivers aren't really drivers
[23:35:15] <pfred1> they're more chip carriers
[23:36:35] <pfred1> you want to optically isolate your control signals
[23:38:27] <_unreal_> pfred1, are you asking or stating?
[23:38:41] <pfred1> I am stating
[23:39:17] <pfred1> decent stepper drivers have optically isolated control lines
[23:39:42] <pfred1> otherwise noise swamps your control logic
[23:39:48] <_unreal_> not sure what motor drivers I'm going to get yet
[23:40:11] <pfred1> it took me a year to sort that out with my homemade drives
[23:40:25] <pfred1> I ended up coming to the same conclusion everyone else has
[23:40:32] <_unreal_> I have not picked out motors yet because I have to make some final choices on the build design, get estimates of the weight of the machine
[23:40:47] <_unreal_> Whats that. just build it?
[23:40:48] <_unreal_> :)
[23:41:11] <pfred1> no Ihad to optically isolate the control lines
[23:41:20] <pfred1> just building it doesn't work
[23:42:11] <pfred1> this is what an unisolated step square wave looks like http://i.imgur.com
[23:42:31] <pfred1> you can see the PWM chopping in the signal
[23:42:47] <pfred1> that's not good
[23:43:04] <_unreal_> What did you use for a pulse generator and motor drivers?
[23:43:24] <pfred1> I was using a 555 timer at that point
[23:43:54] <pfred1> that drive was a SLA7026
[23:44:18] <Tenacious-Techhu> Oh jeez, don't use 555 timers.
[23:44:20] <Tenacious-Techhu> Ever.
[23:44:27] <pfred1> or was it a 7024?
[23:44:30] <pfred1> why not?
[23:44:42] <Tenacious-Techhu> There are a number of more modern ICs that do that job much better.
[23:44:49] <pfred1> 555 timers can make square waves
[23:44:58] <pfred1> nothing works better than a 555 timer
[23:45:01] <Tenacious-Techhu> Yes, and there are better chips for that.
[23:45:06] <pfred1> it is the most produced IC in history
[23:45:07] <Tenacious-Techhu> Just about anything is better for that.
[23:45:17] <Tenacious-Techhu> Yes, and it has no value to a modern engineer.
[23:45:18] <_unreal_> sla7024 has its own bilt in chopper
[23:45:26] <Tenacious-Techhu> It's only value now is as a hobbyist toy circuit.
[23:45:29] <pfred1> yeah no shit
[23:45:42] <pfred1> that's what's fucking up the step signal
[23:45:48] <Tenacious-Techhu> If you want a circuit to do a job correctly, you do not use a 555 timer.
[23:46:05] <pfred1> Tenacious-Techhu you're dingly
[23:46:23] <pfred1> there is no chip made that would do any better
[23:46:27] <_unreal_> ya I have never had an issue like that
[23:46:34] <_unreal_> ?
[23:46:38] <Tenacious-Techhu> Dude, seriously.
[23:46:42] <_unreal_> pfred1, Do what exatly better?
[23:46:52] <pfred1> handle the EMI
[23:47:04] <Tenacious-Techhu> There are much more cost-effective chips that will do the same job much better than a 555 timer.
[23:47:19] <Tenacious-Techhu> 555 timers, while fun, are for noobs.
[23:47:50] <pfred1> al lI wanted was a frigging clock pulse
[23:48:29] <pfred1> but what chip works better?
[23:50:11] <_unreal_> why were you using the 555 or how did you use it?
[23:50:16] <_unreal_> damn thats a nice price https://www.amazon.com
[23:50:43] <XXCoder> thats not bad
[23:50:45] <pfred1> I was just using it to generate step pulses testing my drivers out
[23:50:46] <XXCoder> even comes with remote
[23:51:05] <Tenacious-Techhu> Honestly, it depends on the application. If you specifically want a clock pulse, there are dedicated ICs for clock pulse generation. If you want PWM modulation, there are ICs specifically for that, too.
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[23:51:27] <Tenacious-Techhu> While the 555 timer is a great general-purpose circuit you can always find a use for, much more specialized circuits are always the better choice.
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[23:51:51] <pfred1> Tenacious-Techhu then name one
[23:52:12] <Tenacious-Techhu> As such, 555 timers are the "Arduino" of timing circuits; sure, they're good for prototyping, but when you want something to do a job, you use something meant to do that job.
[23:52:23] <Tenacious-Techhu> pfred1, name a specific use case. The more specific the better.
[23:52:27] <_unreal_> even better price https://www.aliexpress.com
[23:52:49] <pfred1> generating a step pulse testing stepper motor drives
[23:53:13] <Tenacious-Techhu> So you want a square wave stepper motor driver?
[23:53:31] <pfred1> no just the pulses to make it run
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[23:54:03] <Tenacious-Techhu> By the time you want the pulses, you already need the driver. And any good stepper motor driver is going to generate those pulses already.
[23:54:13] <_unreal_> so you where just trying to spin the motors. heh...
[23:54:16] <Tenacious-Techhu> You are overcomplicating the problem by insisting on separate components.
[23:54:31] <pfred1> _unreal_ yes
[23:54:45] <pfred1> Tenacious-Techhu that's how they come
[23:54:47] <Tenacious-Techhu> The industry is all about "everything included", these days.
[23:54:56] <pfred1> well I did all of this about 10 years ago now
[23:55:02] <pfred1> it was a different world then
[23:55:10] <Tenacious-Techhu> Maybe a little, but not that much.
[23:55:20] <Tenacious-Techhu> Then again, maybe the price points were different then.
[23:55:25] <pfred1> quite a bit the way you make things sound
[23:55:32] <Tenacious-Techhu> So even if it was on the market, you might not have considered it affordable.
[23:55:50] <pfred1> yeah my drives cost me about $10 a piece ot make back then
[23:56:28] <Tenacious-Techhu> You could probably buy the whole damn thing from Sparkfun today for that price.
[23:56:45] <pfred1> I knew I should have worked o na time machine
[23:56:59] <XXCoder> heh indeed
[23:57:08] <Tenacious-Techhu> Anyway, at least, as of today, there's no reason to use a 555 timer, unless you just happen to have one on hand, and you're just prototyping.
[23:57:13] <XXCoder> I bought some cnc parts starting in 2014 that ended up being useless
[23:57:22] <Tenacious-Techhu> I can't even really recommend buying some.
[23:57:25] <pfred1> I have about 50 555 timers
[23:57:44] <Tenacious-Techhu> Wow; that's at least 45 too many.
[23:57:48] <XXCoder> pfred1: got a project idea for you, make a giant 555 timer chip[
[23:57:52] <pfred1> I think when I ordered 50 they actually sent me 54
[23:57:58] <XXCoder> like evilmadscientist did lol
[23:58:11] <pfred1> XXCoder I've seen it the actual chip itself is cooler
[23:58:29] <pfred1> you can do things on dies that yo ucan't do with discrete components
[23:58:59] <XXCoder> LOL definitely not one I meant but... cool https://boingboing.net
[23:59:09] <pfred1> my next project is going to be some SMPS experimentation
[23:59:41] <_unreal_> I may just break down and buy that
[23:59:51] <_unreal_> https://www.aliexpress.com
[23:59:51] <pfred1> I have some TL494s i want to experiment with