#linuxcnc | Logs for 2018-08-22

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[00:00:15] <enleth> so it might make sense to be able to move the tool parallel to the gantry movement axis
[00:00:50] <Valen> I saw a boring tool with some kind of system to change the diameter of the boring tool
[00:02:27] * _unreal_ LOL I'm picturing a Z axis with the telescoping boxing glove https://thumbs.dreamstime.com
[00:02:43] <_unreal_> dremel instead of glove
[00:03:19] <enleth> Valen: something like a small version of a HBM's spindle?
[00:05:42] <roycroft> dremel, dremel, dremel, i carve with you today
[00:07:31] <roycroft> dremel, dremel, dremel, your blue smoke blows away
[00:18:01] <Tom_L> blue smoke is reserved for semiconductors
[00:18:16] <Tom_L> it comes pre'packaged in em
[00:21:21] <roycroft> i'm sure i've seen blue smoke coming out of dremels before
[00:21:38] <roycroft> but perhaps it was just the light reflecting off the grey smoke
[00:33:42] <CaptHindsight> Valen: LTNS, have you done any more granite epoxy casting?
[00:33:53] <Valen> not since then no
[00:34:16] <CaptHindsight> where is that link to that one you did a few years ago?
[00:34:29] <CaptHindsight> I tried to find it an could not
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[00:35:39] <Valen> https://www.cnczone.com lost the photos though
[00:36:38] <CaptHindsight> thanks
[00:38:14] <CaptHindsight> Valen: how is your winter this year?
[01:04:01] <Valen> not super great really, i mean personally fine but 100% of the state is in drought and there are 75 bush fires going and no rain on the long term forecast
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[01:20:04] <Wolf__> great, who let _unreal_ in here =)
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[01:27:06] <Wolf__> so, opinions… Openbuild V-slot linear rail with acetal wheels, belt driven with nema 23 420oz-in, bad idea for a small/quick and dirty plasma cnc build?
[01:28:19] <Wolf__> tho I’m thinking the 420 oz-in steppers might be way overkill lol
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[02:33:26] <fragalot> M0rnin'
[02:33:37] <Wolf__> morning
[02:38:19] <Wolf__> so, opinions… Openbuild V-slot linear rail with acetal wheels, belt driven with nema 23, bad idea for a small/quick and dirty plasma cnc build?
[02:39:23] <fragalot> plasma is very forgiving in terms of general jankyness
[02:39:40] <Wolf__> this I know lol
[02:40:59] <CaptHindsight> how much travel?
[02:41:42] <Wolf__> 36-48”x20-24” depending on how I feel
[02:42:01] <CaptHindsight> relatively small
[02:42:13] <Wolf__> very, simple dirty gantry
[02:42:26] <CaptHindsight> well you can do it well or poorly depending on how you put t-slot together
[02:42:56] <CaptHindsight> and the sizes chosen
[02:43:23] <Wolf__> seeing I’ll have dead space at one end of the long axis I can use big corner braces, thinking 40x40mm for the gantry beam
[02:43:58] <Wolf__> 1500mm long C-box for the long beams/sides
[02:45:24] <CaptHindsight> C is channel https://www.metalsdepot.com
[02:45:57] <Wolf__> https://openbuildspartstore.com
[02:46:17] <Wolf__> i meant c-beam
[02:48:41] <Wolf__> thinking modified version of this https://openbuilds.com
[02:49:04] <Wolf__> just, belt drive and open bottom
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[02:49:17] <CaptHindsight> http://www.pbclinear.com
[02:49:25] <CaptHindsight> where they got their ideas
[02:49:39] <Deejay> moin
[02:49:59] <Wolf__> cool
[02:50:00] <CaptHindsight> you can look over the PCB site and see what they use for given lengths and strengths
[02:51:07] <CaptHindsight> I met the openbuilds guy at some maker fare a few years ago, he acted like he invented extrusions
[02:51:11] <Wolf__> seeing guys are building routers with the same parts I think I’m safe lol
[02:52:08] <CaptHindsight> I can build a car with cheese...
[02:52:22] <CaptHindsight> doesn't mean it's a good design
[02:52:44] <Wolf__> yeah but with almost zero side loads with plasma torch
[02:53:08] <Wolf__> bad router design shouldn’t be too bad for me =)
[02:56:10] <Wolf__> thinking short and stout build, seeing I dont have a long spindle to deal with
[02:57:59] <Wolf__> its going to be usually running at 27-86IPM as well
[02:59:03] <Wolf__> actually I might go with that c-beam for the gantry as well so I can keep most of the rollers on the back side away from the torch blowback
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[03:19:38] <Wolf__> CaptHindsight: this is my application for this cnc plasma, center plate is 0.5”, tube is 0.25” wall https://i.imgur.com
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[03:52:13] <selroc> log
[03:52:13] <c-log> selroc: Today's Log http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81
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[05:41:57] <XXCoder> wore mask all day at work. coughed way less. yay. tomorrow I will do it again, because I dont feel like trying to cough my lungs out.
[05:41:59] <XXCoder> smoke suck
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[05:47:36] <speedevil> :)
[05:52:22] <fragalot> XXCoder: You mean you're not filtering the air through a cigarette?
[05:52:38] <XXCoder> cigs would kill me
[05:52:42] <fragalot> :P
[05:52:54] <XXCoder> not in longer term cancer stuff nh
[05:53:03] <XXCoder> more directly as my lungs suck
[05:56:17] <rmu|w> wouldn't lungs that don't suck be a problem
[05:56:48] <XXCoder> lol
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[06:19:02] <jthornton> morning
[06:19:34] <XXCoder> yo
[06:19:43] <XXCoder> happy smokey day to you
[06:20:24] <jthornton> 66°F and clear here
[06:32:41] <Tom_L> 69�F Hi 74
[06:33:24] <XXCoder> 89f, partially cloudy, smoke like god is smoking and blowing in here
[06:33:47] <XXCoder> air quality 166 here now
[06:34:00] <XXCoder> in danger but not deadly zone
[06:34:40] <jthornton> 74 for a high nice
[06:34:57] <Tom_L> yeah, kinda hard to believe
[06:35:26] <XXCoder> wed will be last hot day looks like. tues is next sunny day but it only reaches 74f
[06:35:56] <XXCoder> in ;east work provides n95 masks
[06:53:13] <jthornton> what's a n95 mask?
[06:55:35] <fragalot> jthornton: fine particulate filter
[06:55:47] <jthornton> ah
[06:56:20] <fragalot> (I think)
[07:07:22] <XXCoder> yep
[07:07:31] <XXCoder> its rated for smog or smoke or like
[07:07:35] <XXCoder> n100 is even finer
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[07:59:17] * jthornton needs to hook some wires up so the steppers spin
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[09:35:23] <skunkworks> https://www.youtube.com
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[09:41:51] <robotustra> skunkworks, super cool
[09:42:00] <robotustra> I want something like this
[09:43:26] <gregcnc> i wonder how much effort was involved in getting that to work
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[09:53:38] <gregcnc> eyy this was a suggested video. are these tormach issues recent? https://youtu.be
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[09:57:11] <skunkworks> I would guess lots of effort.. see he is controlling menus too
[09:57:55] <gregcnc> i was going to try to find a thread on the russian forums
[10:28:39] <cradek> gregcnc: I quit watching at "I'm not a machinist and we don't actually have an on-staff machinist"
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[10:45:29] <JT-Shop> yea a guy just bought my gas string trimmer
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[11:04:02] <flyback> https://www.youtube.com
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[11:28:04] <gloops> whats the crack with free use of fusion360 - download trial version, then what? (when it expires)
[11:29:20] <MarcelineVQ> it's a lot simpler to just get a individual lisence since it doesn't currently cost anything
[11:30:44] <gloops> ahh yeah, can see it now - startup or hobbyist
[11:30:52] <gloops> anyone earning <100k
[11:30:58] <MarcelineVQ> but typically in software cracks turn off or block checking liscences or connecting to the online service, so in the case of fusion you'd lose the ability to update or to save your designs in their cloud. not that the latter is important
[11:37:01] <Jymmm> Got a new 110/220 generator, want to "backfeed" using the L1430 I installed in the garage last year, but ONLY for 110V (not 220V at all). Besides disabling mains, and disconnecting all 220V appliances at the breaker, is there anything else I should be aware of (besides it's a bad thing, this I'm aware of) ?
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[11:52:04] <gregcnc> Jymmm I would think only half of your 110V will be live that way?
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[11:52:19] <fragalot> o hallo
[11:53:27] <jdh> every other breaker
[11:53:51] <gregcnc> that's what I'm thinking
[11:55:17] <roycroft> it would be best to use a manual transfer switch so that you can select the circuit(s) to feed
[11:55:56] <roycroft> the switch also ensures isolation of generator power from the mains, which is a code requirement and an important safety requirement
[11:57:01] <jdh> and way more painful to install than a suicide cord and an outlet
[11:57:31] <fragalot> whatever you do, make sure there is NO WAY at all possible for you to accidentally backfeed the grid
[11:57:34] <fragalot> transformers work both ways
[11:57:41] <jdh> heh
[11:57:42] <fragalot> and you do not want to kill a line worker
[11:57:54] <roycroft> yes, this is a SERIOUS safety issue
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[11:58:19] <roycroft> you would not get a slap on the wrist or a fine if your non-isolated backfeed setup is discovered
[11:58:30] <roycroft> you would have your mains immediately disconnected by the power utility
[11:58:45] <fragalot> and don't think that "I'll just switch off the main breaker first, don't worry" is 'good enough'
[11:58:59] <jdh> and if you are going to do it, plug the 220 in
[11:59:13] <fragalot> roycroft: if not trialed in court for attempted murder
[11:59:26] <JT-Shop> hmm solar equipped houses back feed the mains all the time
[11:59:39] <fragalot> JT-Shop: those devices switch off if there is no grid
[11:59:40] <gregcnc> no grid goes down they disconnect
[11:59:42] <fragalot> a little known fact
[11:59:55] <roycroft> sure, and they have controllers that manage that
[12:00:08] <gregcnc> I thought it was a well known fact?
[12:00:25] <fragalot> gregcnc: I know a lot of people that say "I'm not worried if power goes out, i've got solar panels"
[12:00:30] <fragalot> so.. not THAT well known :D
[12:00:45] <gregcnc> well you can't help braindead
[12:00:52] <miss0r|office> goodevening
[12:00:56] <JT-Shop> my friends dad got a $-4 bill for electric
[12:01:10] <fragalot> JT-Shop: :P sadly that's not a thing here
[12:01:17] <miss0r|office> JT-shop: let me have the recepie for that. I would love that! :D
[12:01:30] <roycroft> 1. invest $25k in a solar array
[12:01:32] <fragalot> there were some governmental "whooopsies" that included a fixed payment if you had solar
[12:01:34] <roycroft> 2. wait 20 years for roi
[12:01:40] <gregcnc> more solar than you need and a utility that pays well
[12:01:44] <fragalot> but they invented new taxes because they made a mistake with that
[12:01:58] <fragalot> utilities do not pay you for what you generate, and in fact you now pay for the privilige
[12:02:01] <miss0r|office> roycroft; meh. I would've. But my roof could not support the additional weight
[12:02:10] <fragalot> the only savings you have today in belgium is the electricity you don't consume
[12:02:31] <fragalot> i've not bothered with solar because it would take me 24yrs, before they invented the new taxes
[12:02:39] <fragalot> fixed costs are too high compared to the power cost
[12:02:52] <fragalot> for solar heating, the calculation was ~45 years
[12:02:53] <fragalot> :D
[12:02:56] <roycroft> in oregon, the utility is required to pay for any the power fed back to it, and pay at new generation rates
[12:03:15] <fragalot> roycroft: here your meter just runs backwards, and you only pay for what you consume
[12:03:19] <JT-Shop> they deducted the $4 off his gas bill
[12:03:23] <roycroft> i.e. at the rate they would pay for power from a new generation system, not the cheap bpa hydro power rate
[12:03:33] <fragalot> if it rolls back too far when they come take the reading, you've just lost that because that is their new reference
[12:03:35] <gloops> well if the fusion360 install complexity is anything to go by, im not looking forward to using the app
[12:03:50] <fragalot> gloops: ha :D
[12:04:07] * JT-Shop notices it is lunch minute time
[12:04:08] <fragalot> miss0r|office: guess what's coming tomorrow?
[12:04:27] <miss0r|office> Another email telling you the mill is delayed yet again? :)
[12:04:35] <fragalot> !
[12:04:37] * fragalot checks his mailbox
[12:05:13] <fragalot> No.
[12:05:23] <Jymmm> gregcnc: The idea of using L1430, is for distribution purposes only - to "feed" both sides of the service to the 110V circuits
[12:05:29] <miss0r|office> You better hit refresh all night ;P
[12:05:38] <fragalot> :D
[12:05:46] <miss0r|office> So, did you get another day off?
[12:05:49] <fragalot> yes
[12:06:18] <miss0r|office> nice
[12:06:32] <fragalot> cunt
[12:06:40] <roycroft> you can buy a manual transfer switch for <$300
[12:06:45] <miss0r|office> wtf?!
[12:06:49] <roycroft> and they're really easy to wire
[12:06:51] <fragalot> miss0r|office: just got your email :D
[12:06:54] <miss0r|office> haha
[12:07:19] <Jymmm> roycroft: But it's wiring it into the panel that's the rough part.
[12:07:20] <miss0r|office> I wasn't fast enough to hit send when you checked before... Did you atleast get a tiny 'oh shit' feeling? then it would be worth it :D
[12:07:31] <fragalot> perhaps
[12:07:31] <roycroft> it's not that hard
[12:07:39] <miss0r|office> close enough
[12:08:12] <fragalot> does anyone know Ich's real name btw?
[12:08:30] <miss0r|office> fragalot: Also... I got a price for the PF1...
[12:08:32] <miss0r|office> log
[12:08:32] <c-log> miss0r|office: Today's Log http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81
[12:09:31] <gloops> yeah its thomas something or other
[12:09:37] <Jymmm> roycroft: Right now, just looking at making a backfeed cable as I have the connecotrs and wire
[12:09:37] <gloops> thomas lothar maybe
[12:10:11] <Jymmm> roycroft: It's taken two years just to get the generator.
[12:10:11] <fragalot> gloops: thanks - was just checking I wasn't unknowingly buying that schaublin from him :D -- emails are in the same style of speaking, and they also talked about 'the camp was closed' etc
[12:10:25] <gloops> Sammel Lothar
[12:10:29] <roycroft> and of all the wonky things one can do with electrical wiring, directly backfeeding a breaker panel with a generator is the wonkiest and most dangerous
[12:10:33] <miss0r|office> hahaha
[12:11:19] <gloops> i wouldnt be surprised if Ichs has several pseudonyms
[12:11:20] <roycroft> i always recommend that folks do electrical work to code, but i am willing to overlook a lot of things that aren't super scary
[12:11:24] <fragalot> Jymmm: do. not. redneck this.
[12:11:32] <roycroft> i could never overlook directly backfeeding a breaker panel like that
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[12:12:07] <roycroft> like, if i was certain you were going to do it i'd quite possibly make an attempt to identify you and contact your local electrical inspector that you're doing it
[12:12:16] <roycroft> that's how bad an idea it is
[12:12:31] <roycroft> just don't do it, please
[12:13:44] <roycroft> if you can't afford the transfer switch at the moment, or are unable to wire one in properly, get yourself some long extension cords and use those for now
[12:14:26] <fragalot> ^
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[12:16:45] <roycroft> seriously, if your power utility or an electrical inspector found out you did that, the first thing that would happen is that your power would be turned off at the meter
[12:16:52] <roycroft> then the fines would be issued
[12:17:20] <roycroft> and likely your power would not be turned back on until your entire wiring plant was inspected and determined to be up to code
[12:17:40] <roycroft> and any previously unpermitted work would have to be permitted, and permit fees and fines paid for that work
[12:18:11] <gloops> wow, after harvesting my personal data for 30 minutes, spanning back several generations no doubt, i finally get to a drawing screen
[12:19:06] <gregcnc> gloops what did it cost?
[12:19:17] <gloops> so far - nothing
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[12:25:55] <gloops> got a few videos to watch methinks
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[13:01:42] <Todd_Z> hi
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[13:20:23] <fragalot> 'sup
[13:20:57] <fragalot> miss0r|office: how did you like our political system?
[13:23:34] <ziper> lol... the techno isel mini router that went for a couple hundred at auction is now listed for 1200 on craigslist
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[13:57:14] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: When you're around ping me
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[14:08:52] <fragalot> gloops: did you get it to work yet?
[14:09:34] <gloops> oh yeah its working, ive only had a quick play though
[14:09:56] <gloops> ill go through the auodesk tutorials - maybe start later
[14:10:02] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: p i n g
[14:11:55] <MarcelineVQ> autodesk tutorials arne't so amaze
[14:11:55] <gloops> hey what about this fragalot - https://www.bbc.co.uk
[14:12:12] <gloops> The extent of corruption in Europe is "breathtaking" and it costs the EU economy at least 120bn euros (£99bn) annually
[14:12:13] <MarcelineVQ> https://www.youtube.com isn't too bad, not amazing audio
[14:12:20] <MarcelineVQ> gloops: ^
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[14:12:33] <gloops> thanks MarcelineVQ ill have a look
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[14:13:51] <fragalot> gloops: looks like an accurate map of it if you ask me
[14:13:56] <gloops> it actually looks fairly straightforward, just getting to grips with new interface
[14:14:22] <fragalot> it is very straightforward
[14:14:43] <fragalot> f360 is pretty good if you've not been pampered by Inventor suite
[14:14:58] <MarcelineVQ> That was my biggest problem with it, I used inventor 15 years ago
[14:15:05] <MarcelineVQ> and fusion still doesn't have some of the feature that had
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[14:15:52] <fragalot> MarcelineVQ: yeah, but if you haven't actually ever used Inventor, so you don't know what you're missing,.. it's pretty good
[14:15:57] <MarcelineVQ> totally
[14:16:19] <fragalot> the cloud & subscription part of it sucks ass though which would make me not want to use it on a professional level
[14:16:23] <gloops> well, it wont be my main drawing app, just some features i want to use, but may as well learn all the basics of it
[14:16:26] <MarcelineVQ> Allthough working with parameters is really limited given that it's a parametric modeling program :( specifically with assemblies
[14:16:51] <fragalot> MarcelineVQ: Yup - again, if you don't know you can't miss it
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[14:25:39] <roycroft> are we talking about fusion 360 again?
[14:25:47] <fragalot> we were
[14:25:51] <fragalot> it's over now, you can come back
[14:25:54] <roycroft> it's useless
[14:26:13] <roycroft> try using it in offline mode
[14:26:50] <fragalot> it has an offline mode?
[14:27:23] <CaptHindsight> similar to Off mode
[14:27:28] <fragalot> Ha.
[14:27:39] <roycroft> it does
[14:27:59] <fragalot> like I said - i'd never use it for anything process critical or any form of professional level
[14:28:00] <roycroft> and since i work disconnected from the internet frequently, offline mode is mandatory
[14:28:23] <CaptHindsight> I don't want my applications on the cloud, only my head
[14:28:24] <roycroft> i'm still looking for decent cam software
[14:28:34] <roycroft> i gave fusion 360 a go but gave up very quickly
[14:28:58] <fragalot> CaptHindsight: cloud, or subscription services have no place in industry
[14:28:59] <fragalot> imho
[14:29:08] <MarcelineVQ> Works fine offline for me, not that I'm some special metric. It's a confusing piece of software though because it's remaking from scratch things that other autodesk products already do, I don't really get who the product is for in that sense or in particular how it helps autodesk. they're paying engineers to remake poorer imitations of things, what is the model
[14:29:09] <roycroft> as in i installed it, loaded it up, put it in offline mode, and found it utterly useless
[14:29:12] <fragalot> things need to work for far too long for that to be an option
[14:29:38] <roycroft> go in offline mode and try to load a bolt from the library
[14:30:06] <fragalot> given that it's an online library.. yeah
[14:30:16] <fragalot> I couldn't even do that in online mode, tbh
[14:30:22] <roycroft> are you going to design every part from scratch every time?
[14:30:25] <fragalot> it keeps directing you to mcmaster which is not available outside the USA
[14:30:37] <roycroft> do you really want your productivity to go down by 99% or so?
[14:30:40] <gloops> i suppose it depends what you want to do, and how much you want to spend
[14:30:51] <fragalot> roycroft: hell no - that's why I use Inventor :P
[14:31:16] <gloops> with some skill and guile, it is possible to cover all bases with free apps
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[14:31:36] <roycroft> i tried to make bamcam work the other day, as it's relatively inexpensive
[14:31:38] <roycroft> but it sucks
[14:31:43] <roycroft> won't run properly on linu
[14:31:43] <roycroft> x
[14:31:50] <roycroft> they don't answer emails
[14:31:58] <roycroft> i'm not going to pay for a product that's not supported
[14:32:18] <roycroft> pycam is wonky as hell
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[14:32:21] <CaptHindsight> fragalot: it's your sworn duty as a citizen to share everything you do with the cloud
[14:32:31] <fragalot> CaptHindsight: sharing is caring
[14:32:33] <roycroft> as i always say
[14:32:34] <CaptHindsight> it's for your protection
[14:32:35] <MarcelineVQ> Currently you can have things you make be available offline, but it's missing another huge inventor feature I recall from literal decades ago which is a vault of hardware you just plunk in numbers for and it spits out a model with the exact specs I gave it. want a 1/2-13 3" long screw? click click done
[14:32:37] <fragalot> except when it's corporate data
[14:32:38] <roycroft> clouds are pretty
[14:32:44] <fragalot> but the sharing part isn't what bothers me
[14:32:45] <roycroft> but eventually they will rain on you
[14:32:45] <JT-Shop> hmm none of my linux pc's can view the network...
[14:32:47] <fragalot> it's what happens in 15 years
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[14:32:55] <fragalot> it's what happens when that cloud srvice inevitably stops
[14:33:02] <gloops> after all how can they taylor your CAD experience if they have got your facebook account
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[14:33:11] <fragalot> we still use compilers from companies that went out of business 17 years ago
[14:33:13] <gloops> havent
[14:33:16] <CaptHindsight> fragalot: other clouds copy those clouds
[14:33:18] <fragalot> just because it's the only one that works
[14:33:30] <roycroft> or when autodesk decide some day that the "free" version of fusion 360 now costs money, and you can't get your files that are in the cloud until you pay up
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[14:33:39] <roycroft> that will happen before they disappear it completely
[14:33:43] <fragalot> roycroft: you know that before you sign up
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[14:33:50] <CaptHindsight> your data is still in the clouds but you just can't access it, only those with cloud access
[14:33:52] <fragalot> it's when autodesk decides to shut it down
[14:33:55] <fragalot> THAT is the problem
[14:34:10] <fragalot> autodesk discontinues f360.. it just stops working
[14:34:12] <fragalot> your files won't open
[14:34:14] <fragalot> now what
[14:34:15] <roycroft> also, the files need to be stored in a common format, like stl
[14:34:26] <roycroft> or at least exported in a common format without lossiness
[14:34:35] <fragalot> STL is lossy
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[14:34:40] <fragalot> none of your parameters are there
[14:34:47] <fragalot> none of the features that built up the original part are there
[14:34:57] <roycroft> depending on a single vendor with a proprietary file format is not wise
[14:35:03] <CaptHindsight> fragalot: you sound like an old person, somebody that doesn't send every waking moment to their social tribe on snapchat
[14:35:18] <fragalot> CaptHindsight: i'm far from old, i'm just sane
[14:35:35] <roycroft> if you're sane you must be old :)
[14:35:37] <fragalot> roycroft: I don't mind a proprietary file, IF the license I have is perpetual and does not depend on a remote license server
[14:35:59] <CaptHindsight> look out your window, are there piles of dead children?
[14:35:59] <roycroft> as long as you're sure you can run the software forever
[14:36:09] <fragalot> roycroft: hence perpetual
[14:36:11] <CaptHindsight> see the kids are safe
[14:36:33] <fragalot> CaptHindsight: there's a morgue across the street and a cemetary next door.. so.. kinda?
[14:36:41] <roycroft> what about when you no longer have an os that can run the software?
[14:36:44] <CaptHindsight> yeah but no piles
[14:36:53] <roycroft> and when you no longer have hardware that can run the os that can run the software?
[14:37:01] <gloops> autodesk isnt going to lose all those customers
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[14:37:24] <fragalot> roycroft: hardware can be fixed, OS's do go out of style, but there are ways to still get it to work
[14:37:34] <CaptHindsight> winders is moving to a full subscription model
[14:37:47] <fragalot> like I said, we already use software from companies that went out of business or have been resold dozens of time
[14:38:02] <fragalot> some of whih require some workarounds to get it to run, but it still runs
[14:38:03] <gloops> and when windows does that - none of these apps will work unless you are a windows subsciber
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[14:38:19] <CaptHindsight> you're not supposed to do that, you're supposed to buy new all the time, new is better
[14:38:23] <fragalot> CaptHindsight: i know. dark times ahead for industry.
[14:38:26] <roycroft> i'll agree that proprietary file formats are not desirable, but acceptable under some circumstances
[14:38:55] <CaptHindsight> look into my eyes, what you see and hear is not really happening
[14:38:55] <MarcelineVQ> I'm okay with propriatary implementations, formats should be open
[14:38:56] <fragalot> roycroft: Exactly.
[14:39:04] <roycroft> and that the app being cloud-based, or dependent on calling home to a license server occasionally is much more problematic
[14:39:20] <roycroft> not everyone does it badly, btw
[14:39:52] <roycroft> it's astonishing that i use them as an example, but adobe mandled the cs4 apps quite nicely
[14:40:01] <roycroft> they decided to retire their license server for cs4
[14:40:06] <CaptHindsight> the Russian will sell you your own local license server
[14:40:29] <roycroft> and when they did so they published a patch that anyone can download that licenses the software in perpetuity
[14:41:06] <roycroft> adobe did not have a subscription model for cs4, but they did restrict the license to one machine at a time
[14:41:16] <roycroft> so you could install it on multiple machines, but only use it on one
[14:41:38] <roycroft> if you wanted to use it on another, you'd have to deactivate it on the first machine and activate it on the second
[14:42:01] <roycroft> but the patch just activated it on install, without calling home
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[14:42:49] <MarcelineVQ> adobe probably didn't even do the work, just grabbed a crack people had been using for years and distributed it :>
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[14:43:34] <Tom_L> one day the cloud will rain and the sky will clear again
[14:43:36] <roycroft> that could well be the case :)
[14:43:38] <MarcelineVQ> though, easiest way to get around that liscence stuff at the time was to modify your hosts file to block connections to the liscence servers
[14:43:40] <Tom_L> we can only hope
[14:43:44] <MarcelineVQ> *at that time
[14:43:59] <roycroft> marclinevq: that did not work
[14:44:01] <roycroft> not with cs4
[14:44:11] <roycroft> if it was unable to call home and check in it would not run
[14:44:14] <Tom_L> roycroft, have you looked at mastercam?
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[14:44:27] <MarcelineVQ> It was part of the process, I had all those programs at various forms of crackedness
[14:44:35] <MarcelineVQ> rain would be nice, the wildfires are extreme this year
[14:44:47] <roycroft> i have, tom_l
[14:44:51] <Tom_L> just catching up on the logs
[14:44:54] <roycroft> iirc it's rather expensive
[14:45:07] <roycroft> i don't mind paying for useful software, but i can't cost justify it right now
[14:45:20] <roycroft> i'm looking for something entry level at the moment
[14:45:22] <fragalot> MarcelineVQ: did you skip the age of faking harddisk ID's?
[14:45:34] <Tom_L> i don't think it's cloud based
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[14:45:42] <roycroft> if i could justify a lot of money i'd get a newer version of solidworks, which has cam software
[14:45:44] <MarcelineVQ> Yes but not the age of changing your calendar :D
[14:45:58] <Tom_L> how good is it though?
[14:46:04] <roycroft> i'm using 2012, and i don't have support on it, so i can't upgrade without dishing out $5k or so again
[14:46:26] <roycroft> cambam is only ~$150
[14:46:33] <roycroft> so i was hoping that would do the trick
[14:46:36] <Tom_L> i didn't care for it
[14:47:00] <roycroft> but it's wonky, and it complains about missing libraries on linux, even though i installed it exactly as documented
[14:47:13] <roycroft> and as i said, the cambam folks don't answer emails
[14:49:05] <hazzy-lab> Lcvette[m] Hello! I don't see you :(
[14:49:21] <CaptHindsight> how about a software model where the full application is free like NX, SW, Mastecam etc, but.... you pay for each file saved
[14:49:30] <roycroft> yeah, mastercam 2.5d mill starts at $4k/seat, and 3d mill starts at $10k/seat
[14:49:38] <roycroft> too rich for my blood :)
[14:50:18] <roycroft> it comes with a free solidworks plugin though!
[14:50:24] <Tom_L> way back when, smartcam and mastercam were the 2 main choices
[14:50:49] <Tom_L> i went with smartcam and still use it but it's somewhat gone by the wayside now i believe
[14:51:03] <roycroft> i should bite the bullet and try to figure out how to wrap my brain around freecad
[14:51:03] <Tom_L> mastercam seems to be more popular among small shops here
[14:51:18] <Tom_L> i might if i _had_ to
[14:51:23] <roycroft> that's some really weird software though
[14:51:24] <CaptHindsight> the files are all stored on the cloud and if the company decides to stop supporting them or goes out of business, all the top executives and their families are beaten to a pulp
[14:52:38] <Tom_L> most plants here use catia but i don't really think anybody uses it for cam although it has cam now
[14:53:08] <Tom_L> takes a 3rd party to make a post too
[14:53:40] <Tom_L> i _could_ load mastercam here but i haven't
[14:54:08] <Tom_L> just one more thing to figure out
[14:54:39] <Tom_L> i think my kid still has a student license for it
[14:55:01] <roycroft> the student license is only $300
[14:55:12] <roycroft> i'm no longer officially a student
[14:55:35] <roycroft> but even if i were, i'd not be able to do any production work with a student license
[14:55:45] <Tom_L> if you catch alot of them at the right time of year they'll offer free student copies
[14:55:50] <CaptHindsight> do needlepoint classes count?
[14:55:51] <Tom_L> with id
[14:56:10] <CaptHindsight> kewl
[14:56:44] <Tom_L> roycroft, no but you would be able to decide if it was what you wanted
[14:57:06] <roycroft> sure
[14:57:18] <roycroft> i'm looking for somthing i can use right now though :)
[14:57:30] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: Looks like they're pulling linux support for NX after version 12.
[14:57:47] <roycroft> i can hand-write gcode, but that's tedius and error-prone
[14:57:52] <CaptHindsight> not enough users?
[14:58:15] <FinboySlick> Pretty much. They didn't see enough people switching.
[14:58:51] <roycroft> i hoped 360 would work out
[14:59:02] <roycroft> because it's parametric, fairly intuitive, and generates good gcode
[14:59:12] <roycroft> so it does have a lot of things going for it
[14:59:28] <roycroft> also, it's free for hobby users and small (<$100k/year) shops
[14:59:30] <FinboySlick> roycroft: Well, there's always the 'fell off a truck' option. Is this just for personal use?
[14:59:32] <Tom_L> i wonder if beachbumpete1 ever got his guitar programmed with it
[14:59:42] <roycroft> but being cloud-based is a disqualifier
[15:00:01] <beachbumpete1> HUH ;)
[15:00:02] <roycroft> i don't like going that way, finboyslick
[15:00:39] <Tom_L> beachbumpete1 i take that as a NO!
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[15:01:02] <beachbumpete1> I have been working on my kit version actually
[15:01:19] <beachbumpete1> but the model had some issues that I needed to sort out before I could finish toolpathing it.
[15:01:43] <beachbumpete1> It has some strange blemishes in the curvature of the left side near the horn
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[15:06:46] <gloops> i bet youre the kind of person who even let firefox save a password roycroft
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[15:08:40] <roycroft> i have never allowed a web browser to save a password
[15:08:49] <gloops> lol
[15:08:56] <roycroft> and i don't add passwords to my keychain in mac os
[15:09:04] <roycroft> i have a password manager that works quite well for me
[15:09:13] <roycroft> and does not save anything to "the cloud"
[15:09:15] <fragalot> roycroft: care to be very specific about which one?
[15:09:23] <roycroft> i'm using datavault
[15:09:26] <fragalot> is it keepass 1.x or 2.x? which build exactly?
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[15:09:42] <fragalot> is it just a password, or does it use a key file too?
[15:09:43] <roycroft> version 6.2.44
[15:09:51] <fragalot> what data encryption method?
[15:09:54] <roycroft> it can integratw with browsers
[15:09:57] <fragalot> what's your mums middle name? :d
[15:10:01] <fragalot> first dog?
[15:11:11] <roycroft> all those things change with each account :)
[15:11:22] <fragalot> good good. *adds to little notepad*
[15:11:59] <roycroft> virtually every account i have anywhere has a unique username, email address, password, and set of challenge/responses
[15:13:15] <Tom_L> you don't just use the default admin admin??
[15:13:42] <roycroft> or cisco cisco?
[15:13:42] <gregcnc> tom_l that makes it easy to keep track of
[15:14:05] <Tom_L> yeah but even then i forget how to spell it :)
[15:14:12] <roycroft> whenever possible i change the admin username from admin to something else
[15:14:16] <fragalot> roycroft: you don't happent o be the sysadmin for equifax?
[15:14:25] <roycroft> a lot of embedded devices don't permit that though
[15:14:30] <roycroft> no, i'm not, fragalot
[15:14:48] <roycroft> but i do have to do pci compliance audits on a regular bases for several of our customers
[15:15:06] <roycroft> basis
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[15:18:28] <CaptHindsight> I use "login" and "password" for all accounts just like they suggest
[15:18:46] <roycroft> i do not want this to get political, and i shall not respond to troll bait on the matter, but i find it difficult to understand people who are vehemently anti-government yet entrust corporations with all their data
[15:19:08] <fragalot> CaptHindsight: nobody would ever guess that because it's so obvious
[15:19:08] <roycroft> it's kind of like saying one is "pro-life" and "pro capital punishment"
[15:19:20] <fragalot> roycroft: quit while you're ahead buddy
[15:19:36] <roycroft> corporations are fully and demonstrably capable of being just as evil and just as incompetent as government
[15:19:40] <roycroft> mistrust them all :)
[15:19:47] <gregcnc> I'm support people of all IQ's
[15:20:09] <fragalot> gregcnc: even if half the population scores below average?
[15:20:38] <roycroft> what about when 90% of the population scores below average? :)
[15:20:46] <CaptHindsight> it actually a weighted average...
[15:21:11] <fragalot> CaptHindsight: hush.
[15:21:15] <CaptHindsight> half are over average and another half are below the average and the rest are in the middle
[15:21:15] <roycroft> your brain is heavy, man
[15:22:01] <CaptHindsight> half meaning some portion
[15:22:56] <gregcnc> If mine if above avg, somebody out there has to be below avg
[15:22:57] <Tom_L> it's lonely at the top
[15:22:57] <gregcnc> like americans eat 28 gallons of isecream a year. I eat maybe one. Some poor bastard is out there guzzling 56 gallons a year
[15:22:57] <gregcnc> and my typing is below avg
[15:22:57] <Tom_L> and he gets put on a talk show because he can't get out of bed
[15:22:57] <gregcnc> then dies at 36
[15:23:39] <fragalot> hehe
[15:23:45] <CaptHindsight> yeah but ice cream
[15:23:55] <fragalot> Tom_L: technically if he does it right the show gets put up around him because he can't leave the house
[15:24:12] <gregcnc> I might make a dent in my gallon allowance sunday
[15:24:45] <Tom_L> fragalot, literally can't fit thru the door
[15:24:56] <CaptHindsight> how do we know that those ice cream stats are true and not fake facts?
[15:25:33] <jthornton> if your locked out of an excel file because you forgot to close it before shutting down the network linux to the rescue show hidden files and delete the ones that start with ~
[15:26:27] <fragalot> jthornton: those are fun as well when working with git
[15:26:34] <fragalot> "HEY I FOUND A NEW FILE I WANT TO ADD!"
[15:26:37] <fragalot> no you don't
[15:26:39] <fragalot> "YES I DO!"
[15:26:43] <fragalot> no.
[15:26:47] <fragalot> "I'VE ADDED IT ANYWAY"
[15:26:54] <Tom_L> 71� seems chilly now
[15:28:08] <CaptHindsight> we went down to ~50F last night
[15:28:24] <fragalot> we're only at 20°
[15:28:35] <Tom_L> but it's been rainin all day so far
[15:28:57] <CaptHindsight> sun and 74F today
[15:29:00] <jthornton> fragalot: I use git gui it doesn't argue as much
[15:29:15] <CaptHindsight> one of our few nice days of the year
[15:29:31] <gregcnc> yeah might get another tomorrow
[15:29:46] <fragalot> jthornton: I use tortoisegit.. good GUI, but it keeps trying. :P
[15:29:49] <CaptHindsight> but of course back to 90 next week
[15:34:02] <roycroft> the smoke is still thick here, such that it's still hard to breathe
[15:34:14] <roycroft> that's keeping the temperature down though
[15:35:15] <robotustra> what news about new GUI lcnc?
[15:35:24] <robotustra> is it ready?
[15:37:44] <fragalot> there's a new GUI?
[15:39:29] <Tom_L> single source library for f360 and eagle now
[15:39:41] <Tom_L> buy the bundle and get 15% off
[15:41:15] <Tom_L> apparently solidworks has jumped on the same bandwagon
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[16:06:47] <jthornton> never heard of tortoisegit
[16:15:26] <jdh> I used to have to use tortoisecvs
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[16:30:30] <hazzy-lab> # TODO: Change to Enum once we drop support
[16:30:30] <hazzy-lab> # for the almost dead and agonizing Python 2.7
[16:30:31] <hazzy-lab> # <pitchforks> Death to Python 2.7! </ pitchforks>
[16:31:10] <hazzy-lab> ^ proof that some gov employees do have a sense of humor
[16:33:31] <XXCoder> lol
[16:33:40] <JT-Shop> lol
[16:33:44] <XXCoder> sometimes the hiring team surgeons forget to remove humor
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[17:11:39] <Deejay> gn8
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[17:19:34] <JT-Shop> time for a beer with the chickens
[17:28:20] seb_kuzminsky is now known as python27
[17:28:32] python27 is now known as seb_kuzminsky
[17:39:56] <roycroft> what kind of beer do chickens like?
[17:40:23] * roycroft has fed chickens a lot of spent grain from brewing, but never the finished product
[17:40:54] <MarcelineVQ> the older ones like wild turkey
[17:41:03] <SpeedEvil> Anything with a splash of Hennessy.
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[17:44:19] <gloops> ,
[17:47:57] <JT-Shop> I drink the beer the chickens get meal worms
[18:15:52] <Roguish> JT-Shop: so, you're basting the chicks in beer now?
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[18:41:02] <CaptHindsight> beer with chicken vs beer with chickens
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[21:00:40] <hazzy-lab> When is the linuxcnc_print.txt file generated? It seems to only be generated when running my 2.8 RIP, but not with the installed 2.7.14 version
[21:00:59] <hazzy-lab> does anybody who just runs an installed version of 2.7 have it?
[21:13:00] <Tom_L> where's it at?
[21:13:14] <hazzy-lab> ~/linuxcnc_print.txt
[21:13:23] <Tom_L> i don't recall seeing a linuxcnc_print.txt file
[21:13:43] <hazzy-lab> I am starting to think it is only generated when LCNC fails to start :(
[21:13:46] <Tom_L> lemme look on the test pc
[21:13:51] <hazzy-lab> Thanks!
[21:14:08] <Tom_L> i could go to the shop and look but i'm too lazy
[21:14:21] <hazzy-lab> don't bother :)
[21:14:39] <Tom_L> in the config directory or other?
[21:14:51] <hazzy-lab> in the user home directory
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[21:15:58] <Tom_L> i don't see it in the home directory or below that in the linuxcnc config path
[21:16:24] <hazzy-lab> ok, thank you
[21:16:32] <Tom_L> i could start it and make it fail
[21:16:55] <hazzy-lab> there is also ~/.linuxcncrc, with might work for what I need
[21:17:12] <hazzy-lab> Need to find out when it is written
[21:17:25] <Tom_L> it won't start without the network card installed
[21:17:36] <Tom_L> i thought it might and fail but it didn't
[21:18:07] <Tom_L> like a config error ?
[21:18:49] <hazzy-lab> yes
[21:19:24] <Tom_L> lemme add somthing to make it fail
[21:19:42] <hazzy-lab> I am pretty sure it is only written on a fail to load, but it would be nice to have confirmation
[21:19:49] <hazzy-lab> thanks!
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[21:21:18] <Tom_L> yup, it's in the home directory now
[21:21:32] <hazzy-lab> Fantastic!
[21:21:39] <hazzy-lab> well, kinda :D
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[21:22:44] <hazzy-lab> I am trying to find a way to get the INI used by the currently running LCNC session, I was hoping I could get it from the linuxcnc_print.txt file, but it is not always written, so I need another solution ...
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[21:23:17] <Tom_L> there's also a linuxcnc_debug.txt
[21:23:30] <Tom_L> same timestamp
[21:23:47] <Tom_L> oh, that's no help to you then
[21:23:52] <hazzy-lab> Yes, but that also seems to be only written when on fail to load, and does not have the INI path in it
[21:24:43] <Tom_L> does too
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[21:25:54] <Tom_L> aww shit. friggin bots.... i gotta log in before i can post the line, hang on
[21:26:43] <hazzy-lab> 20382 pts/0 D+ 0:00 milltask -ini /home/kurt/dev/cnc/QtPyVCP/sim/mini.ini
[21:26:48] <hazzy-lab> your right!
[21:26:54] <hazzy-lab> I missed it
[21:27:06] <Tom_L> there's an inifile = line
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[21:30:48] <Tom_shop> INIFILE=/home/tom/linuxcnc/configs/NEW_MILL/new_mill.ini
[21:30:53] <Tom_L> finally
[21:31:47] <Tom_L> i should fix all my irc clients to log in i suppose
[21:32:08] <hazzy-lab> Which file is that from?
[21:33:42] <Tom_L> linuxcnc_print.txt
[21:34:20] <Tom_shop> 2.7.14
[21:34:32] <hazzy-lab> ok, that is what I was hoping to use, I even write a little parser for it, lol
[21:34:38] <hazzy-lab> wrote*
[21:35:21] <hazzy-lab> but unfortunately I can't count on LCNC failing to start every time :D
[21:35:33] <Tom_L> wanna know a little trick?
[21:35:54] <Tom_L> if you want to get the info, write something to the end of the file then erase it after it fails
[21:35:59] <Tom_L> then you will have your file
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[21:36:43] <Tom_L> i used to do that to .exe files to kill them after a certain date
[21:36:58] <Tom_L> like if they didn't pay...
[21:37:38] <hazzy-lab> The problem is it needs to work with axis and all the other GUIs, without needing to modify them to write to the file
[21:37:40] <hazzy-lab> haha
[21:38:11] <Tom_L> all i'm saying is there should be a way to trigger a fail so you get your file
[21:38:34] <Tom_L> maybe not the most elegant way...
[21:38:43] <hazzy-lab> One of the reactor simulators in the lab will not run unless the PC clock is set to October 2009 or earlier, took a while to figure that one out ..
[21:39:06] <hazzy-lab> Oh, I see what you are saying
[21:39:26] <Tom_L> mod the ini then change it back
[21:39:31] <Roguish> hazzy-lab: which lab are you working at?
[21:40:52] <hazzy-lab> Roguish: Just the school's nuclear lab
[21:40:59] <Roguish> ah, ok.
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[22:11:36] <flyback> <flyback> THIS IS A SKULLFUCK
[22:11:36] <flyback> <flyback> SFW
[22:11:36] <flyback> <flyback> https://www.youtube.com
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[22:11:45] <flyback> check this Tom_L
[22:13:04] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com
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[22:15:59] <Tom_L> skunkworks, all done?
[22:18:35] <skunkworks> might make sure the surfaces are parallel with a grinder.. other than that - yes
[22:19:10] <skunkworks> unless i forgot something
[22:20:21] <skunkworks> wonder if work has some magnetic 123 blocks
[22:20:45] <skunkworks> need 6 i have 4
[22:21:08] <skunkworks> *8
[22:22:16] <skunkworks> could probably get by with 6
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[23:47:37] <TurBoss> hurrat!
[23:47:41] <TurBoss> *y
[23:47:54] <TurBoss> succes
[23:48:01] <Lcvette> hello
[23:48:12] <TurBoss> hi Lcvette
[23:48:17] <TurBoss> you are now one of the crew
[23:48:41] <Lcvette> whoo hoo
[23:48:55] <Lcvette> thanks Turboss!
[23:48:57] <Lcvette> :D
[23:49:27] <TurBoss> you are welcome
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