#linuxcnc | Logs for 2018-09-11

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[00:01:52] <pink_vampire> flyback: it is a mini mill,
[00:03:08] <flyback> https://www.youtube.com
[00:04:24] <pink_vampire> flyback: it is the old machine, he is about to finish a new one
[00:05:57] <pink_vampire> flyback: https://www.youtube.com
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[00:48:48] <flyback> I know
[00:48:50] <flyback> it died long ago
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[00:59:46] <fragalot> hey
[01:00:20] <pink_vampire> hi fragalot
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[01:59:06] <miss0r> mornin
[02:01:00] <pink_vampire> hi miss0r
[02:02:10] <miss0r> hello pink_vampire. Up to anything interresting?
[02:03:50] <pink_vampire> not much, other then someone that ask for advice for a mill and someone told him to get an "othermill"
[02:05:40] <miss0r> :] Yeah, that sounds like 'not much'.
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[02:51:32] <Deejay> moin
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[05:19:17] <XXCoder> random comment
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[05:22:04] <MarcelineVQ> mildly humorous non sequitur response
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[05:25:03] <pink_vampire> XXCoder: lol
[05:25:28] <XXCoder> heh wow pretty quiet
[05:25:54] <pink_vampire> 5AM lol
[05:26:17] <XXCoder> 2 am here :)
[05:27:13] <pink_vampire> I'm working on the mess
[05:29:26] <XXCoder> cool. im just chilling and relaxing before bed
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[05:41:06] <selroc> log
[05:41:06] <c-log> selroc: Today's Log http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81
[05:41:22] <XXCoder> damn andy video theres couply scary parts
[05:41:36] <XXCoder> like some guy looking very close at cutting machine with no goggles
[05:43:06] <XXCoder> you couldnt [pay me enough money to do that
[05:43:11] <pink_vampire> XXCoder: what videos?
[05:43:18] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com
[05:44:32] <selroc> hi
[05:44:45] <XXCoder> hey
[05:44:48] <pink_vampire> hi selroc
[05:45:15] <selroc> hi pink
[05:46:20] <pink_vampire> hi how are you?
[05:46:54] <selroc> I am in good shape :-)
[05:47:03] <selroc> pink, I have restarted to project my mill
[05:47:37] <pink_vampire> XXCoder: I can't stand the black on the nails
[05:48:01] <pink_vampire> selroc: what do you mean by "restart"
[05:48:40] <selroc> I have been busy with something else, so I am restarting now
[05:49:49] <pink_vampire> cool!
[05:50:08] <pink_vampire> i also need to finish with the servo spindle
[05:53:28] <selroc> do you need help ?
[05:54:16] <XXCoder> man tht was nice video. also scary at points
[05:57:27] <pink_vampire> hehe mental help
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[06:25:37] <jthornton> morning
[06:26:10] <XXCoder> yo
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[06:35:04] <Tom_L> morning
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[06:44:54] <miss0r> mornin'
[06:45:02] <miss0r> err.. good afternoon
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[06:47:17] <XXCoder> 100 cases of whopping cough at one area :( damn antivaxs
[06:48:42] <XXCoder> aka pro-diease
[06:48:45] <miss0r> Antivaxers should be forced to buy an island, where they can live on their own
[06:48:57] <XXCoder> probably last one or 2 generation
[06:51:13] <miss0r> damn. I do not envy the mess andy pugh is making with that cast iron
[06:51:27] <XXCoder> danger, wil roberson, danger
[06:51:33] <XXCoder> no goggles
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[11:31:20] <tjtr33> seb_kuzminsky, Linuxcnc on RPi3B, ssh'd in, not fast but solid for a week now https://www.youtube.com
[12:02:00] <tjtr33> oh well link only works on the box i sent it from, some youtube incubation period i think
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[12:23:46] <pcw_home> I've had LinuxCNC master/Axis up for about two months now on a RPI3B (local graphics Hardware OpenGL enabled)
[12:25:24] <pcw_home> Its OK unless you have too fancy backplots ( its unusable without hardware OpenGL enabled )
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[12:37:05] <pcw_home> stable but slow (maybe about equivalent to a 2008 Intel Atom)
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[13:19:06] <FinboySlick> Is it relatively easy to split the gui parts of linuxcnc from the control core? I've always liked the notion of running the UI part on a separate system.
[13:19:32] <Tom_L> i can just picture an rpi running stuart's old cincinatti
[13:20:07] <FinboySlick> Tom_L: Are there any more videos of that one? It's the gigantic 5axis, right?
[13:20:23] <Tom_L> yes they're still on yt
[13:20:32] <FinboySlick> I meant newer ones.
[13:20:48] <Tom_L> not that i know of since he left MPM
[13:21:18] <Tom_L> i doubt he put that in his pocket when he left
[13:22:08] <Rab> FinboySlick, I was determined to do that a few years ago when I was trying to run Machinekit on a BeagleBone Black and AXIS performance was poor. I remember obstacles seemed serious enough that I gave up on the BBB entirely.
[13:22:44] <Rab> Of course Machinekit is not exactly the same thing as LinuxCNC.
[13:22:58] <Tom_L> close
[13:23:47] <Tom_L> i'm sure the coders would argue that :)
[13:23:48] <Rab> First I tried X forwarding and VNC, and performance was just as bad as onboard graphics. About 10 FPS.
[13:24:07] <FinboySlick> Rab: Well, for me it's more about the natural separation between process and interface than running on an embedded board. That's a great bonus too mind you.
[13:25:27] <FinboySlick> Think of it as a 'socket' UI where you can plug whatever you want.
[13:25:40] <FinboySlick> That would let us do something like browser-driven UI or what have you.
[13:25:49] <Rab> Well, some of the fundamental components were rewritten for the BBB PRUs and were not feature compatible with e.g. stepgen on x86. The LinuxCNC documentation did not apply, and the differences were not well documented.
[13:26:01] <FinboySlick> Or a full blown graphical UI running on a different OS entirely.
[13:26:08] <Rab> To be fair, it was a rapidly moving work in progress at that time and may be very different today.
[13:27:35] <Rab> FinboySlick, yeah, I think that is a cool and obvious concept. Have real-time embedded hardware tied to the machine, and run the interface on a nice workstation fast enough to run your CAM toolchain etc.
[13:29:06] <Tom_L> isn't that what alot of the usb controls do?
[13:29:25] <Tom_L> probably all
[13:29:37] <Rab> Of course the LinuxCNC GUIs are abstracted. I just couldn't figure out how to make the abstraction work over a network.
[13:36:44] <FinboySlick> Tom_L: USB controls are sort of similar but I think they still rely on the host CPU to do some of their work.
[13:37:43] <FinboySlick> Tom_L: What we're talking about is having completely separate processes (running on the same or different machine) to handle the control side and the UI side.
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[14:06:21] <pcw_home> I think MachineKit has done more to isolate the GUI/RT portions but they have not replaced NML with ZeroMQ yet, and I'm not sure if that work is ongoing
[14:06:31] <pcw_home> https://machinekoder.com
[14:08:17] <miss0r|office2> bah! linuxcnc.org is only allowing me to download at 100KB/sec
[14:08:32] <miss0r|office2> sometimes moving up to 300, but most of the time steady at 100
[14:08:47] <miss0r|office2> Did I hit happy hour or something?
[14:13:22] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: Oh noooooo! They use protobuf!
[14:15:26] <FinboySlick> Protobuf is the threshold into re-invent-the-wheel web developer thinks he's a programmer territory.
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[14:23:09] <fragalot> miss0r: le schaublin is on it's own little feet!
[14:25:18] <miss0r|office2> fragalot: Nice :D
[14:25:38] <miss0r|office2> leveled to perfection, I presume? :)
[14:25:47] <fragalot> not yet, job for tomorrow.
[14:26:05] <miss0r|office2> it was probally hard enough to just get it on the feet :D
[14:26:30] <fragalot> it was... couldn't get the pallet jack under it without getting it wedged
[14:26:43] <fragalot> so had to shimmy it down, shift it using a crowbar inch by inch
[14:26:46] <fragalot> shimmy it up again
[14:27:01] <fragalot> remove the old crusty non-adjustable feet
[14:27:03] <miss0r|office2> damn. I remember doing stuff like that before I bought the hydraulic machine jack
[14:27:07] <fragalot> which were bolted on INSIDE OF THE CASTING
[14:27:12] <miss0r|office2> xD !
[14:27:21] <fragalot> :P
[14:27:45] <miss0r|office2> Who the hell does that ? :D hehe
[14:27:54] <fragalot> schaublin, apparently
[14:27:55] <miss0r|office2> schaublin..
[14:27:56] <miss0r|office2> :D
[14:27:58] <fragalot> the front 2 have nice access pockets
[14:28:17] <fragalot> the rear ones do not offer any access, other than a tiny cutout in the center of the back when you've removed the tank
[14:28:39] <miss0r|office2> made for people with tiny tiny arms
[14:28:48] <miss0r|office2> preferable with another joint on'em
[14:29:00] <fragalot> so you have to wedge yourself between the wall & the machine, bend your arm in 2 different directions, dig through a thick layer of molten together chips, and then unscrew the old foot
[14:29:38] <miss0r|office2> Sure sounds like alot'a fun :D
[14:30:00] <fragalot> I forgot to mention that the feed gearbox is dripping oil onto your face at that point
[14:30:15] <miss0r|office2> hahaha
[14:30:16] * fragalot still needs to look if there's seals on that knob or if he simply over-filled it
[14:30:41] <miss0r|office2> I would've loved to be a bystander right there
[14:31:03] <miss0r|office2> next time, please do invite me to be a live audience
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[14:32:54] <fragalot> you were invited, you just didn't accept it
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[14:39:59] <miss0r|office2> I didn't feel like it was heartfelt ;)
[14:40:22] <FinboySlick> fragalot: How come it has chips in there? You should clean the schaublin. Love the schaublin, show it that she is your mistress forever.
[14:41:37] <fragalot> FinboySlick: I did everywhere I could reach
[14:42:34] <FinboySlick> You can do better and she knows it.
[14:42:48] <FinboySlick> When you lie to us, you lie to yourself.
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[14:49:34] <Jin^eLD> fragalot: some time ago you said that you are interested in the MAHO mh400 component and that I should let you know when there is anything
[14:50:02] <fragalot> Jin^eLD: more accurately, miss0r|office2 is.
[14:50:10] <Jin^eLD> oh ok
[14:50:23] <Jin^eLD> well yeah, you said you knew someone who would be interested :) but did not say who back then
[14:50:29] <fragalot> :D
[14:50:35] <Jin^eLD> anyway, we're probably start testing with real hardware this week
[14:50:43] <fragalot> sweet
[14:50:55] <Jin^eLD> from my perspective it's feature complete, some tuning will probably still need to happen
[14:51:07] <Jin^eLD> but so far I only tested it with a simulation I wrote
[14:51:30] <Jin^eLD> let's see how it works out in real life, but otherwise its implemented
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[14:52:52] <fragalot> glad to hear
[14:53:10] <Jin^eLD> https://github.com
[14:53:14] <fragalot> miss0r: you around still?
[14:53:34] <miss0r|office2> yep.. on and off a bit
[14:53:48] <miss0r|office2> Trying to figure out why I am having troubles doing something as trivial as booting a live CD :D
[14:54:01] <fragalot> miss0r|office2: meet Jin^eLD. Jin^eLD, meet miss0r|office2 .
[14:54:16] <fragalot> Jin^eLD has been kind enough to do all the hard work for you for your conversion :D
[14:54:19] <miss0r|office2> Nice to meet you, Jin^eLD
[14:54:30] <miss0r|office2> That sounds interresting :)
[14:54:40] <miss0r|office2> I should have spoken to him before doing it all from scratch :D
[14:54:47] <Jin^eLD> hey miss0r
[14:55:16] <Jin^eLD> ah, you were coding something similar as well? :)
[14:55:21] <miss0r|office2> Jin^eLD: Hello. So you have gotten yourself into a maho retrofit mess as well ? :)
[14:55:53] <miss0r|office2> I have not gotten that far yet. So far I've gathered components needed & made the electrical drawings
[14:56:21] <miss0r|office2> At the moment I am trying to do something as simple as booting a linuxcnc livecd, which for some reason the computer will not accept :)
[14:56:22] <Jin^eLD> miss0r: actually it's not me who got himself into that mess ;) it's a friend of mine
[14:56:33] <Jin^eLD> but since he is not a software dev I kind of decided to help him
[14:56:34] <miss0r|office2> ...sure it is :D
[14:56:39] <Jin^eLD> and coded the gearbox component for him
[14:56:49] <miss0r|office2> That is the part I am most interrested in, actualy.
[14:57:17] <miss0r|office2> what maho are you programming on? (model)
[14:57:29] <Jin^eLD> he has gathered a lot of info, he also got schematics from MAHO (they were nice enough to send it to him)
[14:57:33] <Jin^eLD> MH400E
[14:57:50] <Jin^eLD> that's his thread: https://forum.linuxcnc.org
[14:57:57] <miss0r|office2> the 400E - that is a dual speed motor with.. 18 speed gearbox?
[14:58:01] <Jin^eLD> quite long, I have to admit I did not read all of it :)
[14:58:05] <miss0r|office2> I can't remember the number of gears :)
[14:58:11] <Jin^eLD> yes, 18
[14:58:13] <Jin^eLD> + neutral
[14:58:22] <Jin^eLD> and three motors to control the gear change
[14:58:41] <MrHindsight> the i.mx8 is a good fit for porting machinekit since it has open gpu drivers, 2 PRU's and several ARM cores to split real from non-real time threads
[14:59:10] <Jin^eLD> miss0r: https://github.com first photo
[14:59:10] <miss0r|office2> On my 500C, I've only got two motors to do the gears. But the main spindle motor is controlled by a VFD
[14:59:14] <MrHindsight> waiting for all the hardware bugs to get sorted out
[14:59:39] <Jin^eLD> so they use a gearbox AND a vfd for the spindle speed? a bit odd, no?
[14:59:50] <Jin^eLD> I thought its usually either-or
[14:59:59] <miss0r|office2> Jin^eLD: well, I can choose 20-4000rpm as 1rpm incriments.
[15:00:19] <Jin^eLD> ok thats nice indeed
[15:00:34] <fragalot> miss0r|office2: also, because you were looking for these. http://www.ymttooling.co.uk
[15:00:36] <MrHindsight> https://en.wikipedia.org
[15:00:38] <Jin^eLD> he has 18 fixed speeds in the range from 18 to 4000 rpm
[15:00:40] <miss0r|office2> That is possible with the gearbox combined with the cfd
[15:01:05] <Jin^eLD> so I had to quantize whatever input I get to the best matching possible speed
[15:01:27] <Jin^eLD> aem, not 18 sorry, 80
[15:01:35] <miss0r|office2> fragalot: That is cheap :) It *MUST* be good then
[15:01:47] <miss0r|office2> Jin^eLD: 80 gear combinations?
[15:02:01] <Jin^eLD> no, 80 rpm lowest, 4000 rpm highest, 18 gears not counting neutral
[15:02:19] <miss0r|office2> ahh, alright. I was just about to loose my mind there :)
[15:02:45] <miss0r|office2> I don't know how many gear combinations I have. But I do recall seeing a a schematic of it somewhere in a binder
[15:02:56] <Jin^eLD> yeah sorry, it was a mind-typo, I wanted to write the lowest and highest range but wrote 18 instead of 80 because I was thinking about the gears lol
[15:04:15] <miss0r|office2> It happens
[15:04:17] <miss0r|office2> :]
[15:04:29] <Jin^eLD> well, not sure how helpful the comp would be for you, given that your model seems to be quite different
[15:04:53] <miss0r|office2> Yeah, I'm not so sure either. I guess I'll have to write one(Have fragalot help me out)
[15:04:56] <fragalot> still is a good example to start from, still need to select the gears
[15:05:03] <Jin^eLD> the MH400E has three shafts, each controlled by a motor as in the photo I linked above
[15:05:12] <miss0r|office2> Its gonna be alot of hard work(listening to fragalot complaint about it), but someone has to do it :)
[15:05:29] <fragalot> miss0r|office2: I have zero investment in this so far :D
[15:05:31] <Jin^eLD> and you have to control these motors in a special order
[15:05:39] <miss0r|office2> fragalot: _so_far_
[15:05:56] <Jin^eLD> fragalot: so basically you are the sw dev for miss0r while I am the sw dev for my buddy? :)
[15:06:04] <Jin^eLD> makes us colleagues or something hehe
[15:06:15] <fragalot> I guess it does
[15:06:37] <miss0r|office2> Jin^eLD: Indeed. I think/hope theres going to be some documentation describing the operation of the two gear shafts on this model somewhere in the documentation. Otherwise I'll just have to look at it operate
[15:06:50] <MrHindsight> CFD = constant frequency drive?
[15:07:10] <fragalot> MrHindsight: computer fluid dynamics
[15:07:25] <Jin^eLD> miss0r: on the MH400 there is a manual mode where they describe how to rotate the shafts manually in case the motors do not work, the positions are color coded
[15:07:33] <Jin^eLD> again - you see those color dots in the photo
[15:07:39] <MrHindsight> ah was just skimming the comments, must have misread
[15:07:45] <Jin^eLD> so you could check if your motors are marked in some way as well
[15:07:54] <miss0r|office2> Yeah. I'm not so sure you can do that on the 500, though
[15:08:14] <Jin^eLD> miss0r: for the MH400E the info was in the manual
[15:08:19] <Jin^eLD> so I'd start there
[15:08:39] <miss0r|office2> Yeah. I'm already shoulder deep in piles of documentation at the moment :)
[15:08:52] <Jin^eLD> it took us quite a while to come up with a spec in which direction to to rotate and under which circumstances
[15:09:15] <Jin^eLD> they also have lowspeed mode when you are aiming for the middle shaft position
[15:09:38] <miss0r|office2> Yeah. I'm thinking it'd be wise to make alot of gear changes using the philips 432, and take notes of how it does stuff
[15:10:37] <miss0r|office2> But for the time being, I am just trying to see if I can boot a USB key on the new computer hardware I want to use in the controller.
[15:10:37] <fragalot> Jin^eLD: I have to say, I appreciate the comments in your comps
[15:10:46] <miss0r|office2> Apparently that task is too hard for me :)
[15:11:00] <miss0r|office2> fragalot: What.. are they not in danish?
[15:11:03] <Jin^eLD> that was not possible in our case because he got his MAHO with a dead philips controller :)
[15:11:12] <miss0r|office2> yeah
[15:11:54] <Jin^eLD> fragalot: I figured that for once I will probably forget a lot of that stuff myself in a month or so :) and then I was hoping to keep it useful for others
[15:12:08] <Jin^eLD> so I almost overcommented it
[15:12:49] <fragalot> no such thing
[15:14:28] <Jin^eLD> I had a half finished comp for an MH700, someone from the forum gave it to my friend
[15:14:41] <Jin^eLD> but I did not like it and - well - it was not commented at all and the logic was not clear to me
[15:14:59] <Jin^eLD> first thing I forced by friend to make a flowchart, you'll see it in the docs directory
[15:15:11] <Jin^eLD> I suggest you pester miss0r to do the same for you ;) that helped me a lot
[15:15:44] <Jin^eLD> it's missing one update for my most recent changes, but its quite complete otherwise
[15:15:55] <miss0r|office2> fragalot: pleast start pestering me, so you can get to work :D
[15:16:05] <Jin^eLD> lol :))))
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[15:17:00] <fragalot> miss0r|office2: hell no the longer you take the longer I can spend quality time in me own shed :D
[15:18:54] <miss0r|office2> hehehe
[15:19:07] <miss0r|office2> Why am I unable to boot an f'ing usb key..!
[15:19:48] <XXCoder> what happens when yoy try?
[15:21:21] <miss0r|office2> Nothing basically. The boot menu recognizes it, but when I try to use it, it changes to a black screen for �sec then returns to the boot menu
[15:22:14] <Jin^eLD> miss0r: do you have some secure boot/uefi crap enabeld in bios maybe?
[15:22:32] <Jin^eLD> I have a notebook thats a pain when it comes to booting something
[15:22:46] <miss0r|office2> Jin^eLD: I'm searching like crazy. But I can't seem to find anything about that in the bios
[15:23:27] <miss0r|office2> well, secure boot is disabled.
[15:23:30] <miss0r|office2> I did that earlier
[15:24:09] <Jin^eLD> is the usb stick efi capable? you may want to enable secure boot and add the grub-something.efi file to your bios as trusted
[15:24:58] <miss0r|office2> hmmm. That sounds like alot of trouble to be allowed to just boot an USB :)
[15:25:09] <Jin^eLD> thank M$ for it :P
[15:25:31] <Jin^eLD> most likely that was the whole poin tof introducing that stuff in the first place
[15:25:35] <miss0r|office2> If I ever thank them, it will be with alot of sarcasm
[15:26:10] <Jin^eLD> I was not serious either ;P
[15:26:18] <miss0r|office2> I know :)
[15:26:27] <miss0r|office2> well.. I've just searched some forums.
[15:27:00] <miss0r|office2> The bios detects weather or not the thumbdrive is UEFI or not, and treats it as such. So far I've tried with one that isn't and one that is.
[15:40:44] <MrHindsight> thank Intel for the heap of crap EFI (the OS) is
[15:49:02] <miss0r|office2> This is truly a pain
[15:50:23] <pcw_mesa> and ME (though AMD has the roughly equivalent = PSP?)
[15:51:14] <MrHindsight> yeah somebody twisted AMD's arms to go all closed firmware again
[15:51:30] <pcw_mesa> also thank DRM
[15:51:51] <MrHindsight> users can't be trusted
[15:51:59] <fragalot> I love DRM
[15:52:17] <fragalot> just like license servers
[15:52:25] <fragalot> the only people that get hurt by them are those that paid
[15:52:34] <pcw_mesa> you think you own the computer you bought but not really
[15:53:19] <fragalot> pcw_mesa: will that hold up in court? :D
[15:53:21] <fragalot> "it's not mine"
[15:53:36] <miss0r|office2> :D
[15:53:55] <miss0r|office2> It more and more looks like I've bought a paper weight here
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[15:55:25] <MrHindsight> Direct Rendering Manager (DRM) isn't bad, it just made the kernel more bigger
[15:56:22] <MrHindsight> my phone?! I don't even have root
[15:56:33] <fragalot> MrHindsight: I especially liked the older generation of DRM they tried
[15:56:48] <fragalot> "it's encrypted from start to finish!" "well, apart from that bit in the middle"
[15:57:03] <XXCoder> miss0r|office2: check if usb drive was flashed badly
[15:57:26] <XXCoder> I had to reflash linuxcnc on my usb drive couple times before it worked, and usb drive died short time after that lol
[15:57:27] <miss0r|office2> XXCoder: Yeah.. I'm on my 3rd attempt with this key here, and 4th with another
[15:57:33] <MrHindsight> 12 years ago we could fit a Linux kernel into 256KB
[15:58:23] <miss0r|office2> bah. I need to call it a night. See you around
[15:58:35] <XXCoder> later sometimes rest makes you see things better
[15:58:46] <MrHindsight> fresh eyes
[15:58:58] <pcw_mesa> Ive had terrible luck with USB drives, seems like about 50% die after a few uses
[15:59:25] <MrHindsight> been getting my flash drives from Microcenter
[15:59:35] <MrHindsight> so far so good
[15:59:52] <Jin^eLD> USB drives die quickly because they have no wear levelling
[16:00:15] <mozmck> I have seen only one microcenter drive go bad in the 12 or so years I've been buying them.
[16:00:19] <Jin^eLD> if you want to use something like that permanently, better get an sdhc which you can also plug in via some usb adapter
[16:00:26] <mozmck> That one was bad right off and they replaced it.
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[16:02:15] <MrHindsight> I recall getting my first Flash kit in sometime in '90. Was a few devices on an ISA card and a few lines of source
[16:02:22] <Jin^eLD> I'm off, nite
[16:02:35] <MrHindsight> wear leveling, what wear leveling :)
[16:02:45] <Jin^eLD> fragalot: if you have questions about the code or the comp feel free to PM me, I might not be in the channel regularly
[16:02:53] <fragalot> I remember having an organizer box ofr my JAZ drives
[16:02:58] <pcw_mesa> The problems Ive had seem to be infant mortality, ones that work keep on working
[16:03:01] <fragalot> Jin^eLD: Will do! :D
[16:03:09] Jin^eLD is now known as Jin|away
[16:03:10] <MrHindsight> that was what the card was for, so that you could write it
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[16:18:07] <Loetmichel> *gnhihi* Voice from the kitchen: "AU!" $me:"What happened?" Wife:"Nothing, just cut myself while cutting those bread rolls open, they were a bit to long in the oven" $me:"You are not allowed to damage my wife, you know that?" *moving my ass into the kitchen, giving her a hand with those breadrolls* $me:"AU!" her:"You are not allowed to damage my husband, you know that?" ... then we both stood
[16:18:07] <Loetmichel> there, sucking at our thumbs giggling at each other... ;)
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[17:16:30] <MacGalempsy> hello :)
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[17:17:07] <JT-Shop> yo
[17:18:12] <MrHindsight> MacGalempsy: been away?
[17:30:48] <Deejay> gn8
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[17:35:11] <MacGalempsy> making chips?
[17:38:39] <MrHindsight> not a big chip maker
[17:38:57] <MrHindsight> more automation than chips
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[17:46:02] <MrHindsight> https://peel-3d.com
[17:46:25] <MrHindsight> $6k, 0.5mm res
[17:50:11] <MrHindsight> https://www.artec3d.com similar specs $10k
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[18:01:52] <MacGalempsy> did you get demoted from Capt?
[18:02:55] -!- chupacabra has joined #linuxcnc
[18:10:39] <MrHindsight> no, zis is vhat happeinings vhen you logs outs and ins too fastin
[18:11:17] MrHindsight is now known as CaptHindsight
[18:11:23] <CaptHindsight> worked
[18:20:12] <MacGalempsy> the world was a little out of phase. staying busy?
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[18:25:23] <CaptHindsight> busy is easy, paid is another story
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[19:46:07] <CaptHindsight> https://alicevision.github.io
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[21:01:43] <MacGalempsy> evertry 123D Catch? never had any luck with it.
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[21:10:52] <CaptHindsight> Autodesk 123D Catch (Discontinued) and winders only??
[21:11:14] <CaptHindsight> there are winders apps up the wahzoo
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[21:55:20] <MacGalempsy> never heard the term winder
[21:57:04] <Tom_L> what about ardweenie?
[21:57:42] <Rab> One of the kinder terms I've heard.
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[22:07:09] <CaptHindsight> lotsa winders, 93, 95, 98 2000, wista, xp
[22:07:41] <Tom_L> me
[22:07:48] <CaptHindsight> yup
[22:07:53] <Tom_L> 3.1
[22:07:55] <roycroft> i got an email from autodesk today informing me that my fusion 360 license was being converted into a $300+/year license that does everything
[22:08:07] <Tom_L> awesome
[22:08:10] <CaptHindsight> how nice of them
[22:08:10] <roycroft> i need to make sure they don't have a credit card # on file from me
[22:08:17] <roycroft> i don't think i ever gave them one
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[22:08:46] <CaptHindsight> probably asked for it 2 years ago for "verification" purposes
[22:08:48] <roycroft> this after i told there sales critter a half dozen or so times that i am not interested in their product because it is cloud-based
[22:08:48] -!- ziper has joined #linuxcnc
[22:08:55] <Tom_L> it's a try before you buy thing
[22:09:16] <roycroft> and that i've attempted to use my "hobbyist" license a couple times and decided it's not useful for me
[22:09:17] <CaptHindsight> we only use bowl based software...
[22:09:25] <CaptHindsight> connected by a series of tubes
[22:09:37] <skunkworks> way width fix...
[22:09:57] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com
[22:11:19] <CaptHindsight> https://horus.readthedocs.io looks like another orphaned Linux 3D scanner project
[22:11:34] <Tom_L> couple oopsie holes in the side of the table too
[22:12:03] <CaptHindsight> https://github.com
[22:12:40] <CaptHindsight> skunkworks: very nice
[22:18:56] <skunkworks> almost to the point of re-assembly
[22:20:22] <ziper> i got a quote for someone to make the mold I need for 200-300 dollars. and i need 5 of them. guess I am building a router
[22:45:19] <CaptHindsight> ziper: why build when you can just pay someone else and pick them up when they are done?
[22:45:48] <ziper> because that is more than i want to pay for something made out of wood
[22:46:11] <ziper> and that is 5 molds only for the first set of parts. i want to tweak it that is another set
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[22:46:32] <Tom_L> i'll make em for 199-299
[22:50:06] <ziper> i'd probably only get them made for 150
[22:52:03] <Tom_L> what sort of mold?
[22:52:32] <ziper> a female for a fiberglass hydrofoil
[22:52:45] <Tom_L> i made one of those once
[22:53:02] <Tom_L> used to race model boats
[22:53:17] <ziper> something like this http://puu.sh
[22:53:26] <ziper> i havnt actually decided on the section, though
[22:54:41] <Tom_L> got got a point cloud for the shape or what?
[22:55:31] <ziper> igs?
[22:55:43] <Tom_L> longer than alot of machines' travel
[22:56:16] <Tom_L> oh that's mm
[22:57:04] <ziper> no its inches lol
[22:57:28] <ziper> i dont put that much effort into my drawings
[22:57:29] <Tom_L> unless otherwise specified dimensions are in milimeters
[22:58:05] <Tom_L> what's it for?
[22:58:19] <Tom_L> blade of some kind obviously
[22:59:29] <ziper> the vertical part http://2.bp.blogspot.com
[22:59:41] <ziper> http://www.thedailysail.com
[23:00:25] <Tom_L> carbon fiber?
[23:00:56] <ziper> yes
[23:01:09] <Tom_L> you got an autoclave?
[23:02:24] <ziper> more or less
[23:02:48] <ziper> i dont use prepreg so 120C is about the max anyway
[23:03:44] <Tom_L> is the blade tapered end to end?
[23:05:19] <Tom_L> or consistent to the cross section
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[23:06:30] <ziper> the drawing is the strut and it is constant chord
[23:06:37] <ziper> the horizontal would be tapered
[23:06:43] <Tom_L> ok
[23:06:53] <Tom_L> my little mill is too small anyway
[23:07:54] <flyback> that shit is insane Tom_L ziper
[23:08:01] <flyback> <Tom_L> ok
[23:08:01] <flyback> <Tom_L> my little mill is too small anyway
[23:08:04] <flyback> THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID
[23:08:12] <flyback> anyways the crazy shit
[23:08:21] <flyback> the autoclaves, electric crucibals
[23:08:27] <ziper> can't it be done in sections
[23:08:32] <flyback> just have a liner made from graphite or ceramic
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[23:08:37] <flyback> fragile little mofo
[23:08:45] <flyback> protecting the whole steel unit from melting heat
[23:08:46] <Tom_L> my bud had a machine that would do it but he's retired now
[23:09:06] <Tom_L> ~60" travel in x iirc
[23:09:09] <flyback> how old are you Tom_L
[23:09:17] <Tom_L> 1
[23:09:21] <flyback> bmcc
[23:09:28] * flyback beats Tom_L with rue_MOHR
[23:09:45] <flyback> but seriously
[23:09:51] <flyback> that just blows my mind
[23:09:56] <_unreal_> flyback, ?
[23:10:06] <flyback> watching ceramic liners and also ceramic holding catalysts
[23:10:08] <flyback> and glowing
[23:10:15] <flyback> at temps where metals BOIL
[23:10:19] <flyback> and it's just taking it
[23:10:33] <_unreal_> ok...?
[23:10:42] <Tom_L> they've got a fair size autoclave at the vo-tech
[23:10:42] <_unreal_> I must have missed that link
[23:10:54] <Tom_L> and they do all sorts of carbon fiber etc
[23:10:58] <_unreal_> oh
[23:11:04] <flyback> _unreal_, he was talking about autoclaves
[23:11:09] <flyback> and I was saying how fascinating it is
[23:11:20] <flyback> to see this little steel autoclave, or oven to melt metals
[23:11:33] <flyback> and all that is protecting the unit itself is a layer of ceramic or graphite
[23:11:36] <Tom_L> or cure carbon fiber
[23:11:44] <flyback> oh carbon fiber is high temp?
[23:11:51] <flyback> I thought it oxidizes or burns
[23:11:52] <Tom_L> not that high
[23:12:03] <roycroft> autoclaves don't get very hot
[23:12:03] * _unreal_ palm to face
[23:12:05] <roycroft> just hot enough
[23:12:11] <flyback> _unreal_, ?
[23:12:16] <flyback> roycroft, yeah I know
[23:12:17] <Tom_L> i've never messed with the stuff personally but i've seen it done
[23:12:21] <flyback> I was just ranting in general
[23:12:22] <_unreal_> flyback, carbon has no o in it
[23:12:30] <Tom_L> i've done plenty of fiberglass
[23:12:30] <flyback> _unreal_, I SAID
[23:12:32] <flyback> AT HIGH TEMPS
[23:12:40] <flyback> it might start to oxidize or burn
[23:12:51] * flyback punches _unreal_not_paying_attention
[23:13:07] <_unreal_> ! damn force feed back keyboard
[23:13:22] <flyback> I bet shell has millions of tons of ceramic
[23:13:27] <ziper> this chat is canucked
[23:13:32] <flyback> at the plastics plant they are building 20 mins from here
[23:13:42] <flyback> did you know
[23:13:50] <ziper> epoxy resin will foam if you get it above a couple hundred degrees
[23:13:55] <flyback> 1 gram of a titanium based catalyst
[23:13:57] <flyback> 1 gram
[23:14:05] <flyback> yields 1 ton of polyethylene plastic
[23:14:10] <flyback> before it's gone
[23:14:11] <_unreal_> should see the custom fairing block I built today out of G10 for a boat. to put a fwd facing sonar on a boat
[23:14:16] -!- veek_ has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[23:14:27] <_unreal_> ON the fwd. V hull had to be very high and tight
[23:14:48] <_unreal_> and torpedo shaped and strong
[23:15:07] <Tom_L> ziper, you'll spend more on making a router to make those than paying to have them made
[23:15:08] <_unreal_> OMG what a pain in the ass it was
[23:15:11] <roycroft> a catalyst facilitates, but does not directly participate in a chemical reaction
[23:15:11] <ziper> what, a submarine hunter?
[23:15:30] <ziper> Tom_L, you really think so? I thought I could do it with chinese parts for 1000
[23:15:37] <roycroft> it shouldn't be surpising that a small amount of a catalyst can effect a comparatively large reaction
[23:15:48] <_unreal_> ziper, what kind of a router?
[23:15:54] <Tom_L> and unless you want warpage you'll need a more rigid mold
[23:16:03] <flyback> roycroft, I know that but they get degraded
[23:16:07] <flyback> by byproduct reactions
[23:16:13] <flyback> or mechanical stress
[23:16:14] <ziper> say, 40x12x3 inches, foam and wood
[23:16:18] <flyback> wearing away
[23:16:36] <flyback> I am aware they aren't consumed directely by the reactions
[23:16:43] <_unreal_> ziper, are you talking a cnc machine?
[23:16:50] <ziper> yes
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[23:17:02] <_unreal_> ugh.... then say cnc machine or cnc mill
[23:17:11] <_unreal_> a router is a hand held or table mounted tool
[23:17:18] <flyback> my dad had one
[23:17:23] <flyback> the noise used to scare me
[23:17:35] <_unreal_> ziper, how thick is the fiberglass you want to cut with it?
[23:17:55] <flyback> ziper, be aware cutting fiberglass
[23:18:03] <ziper> i'm not cutting the fiberglass, just the mold
[23:18:13] <_unreal_> whats the mold going to be made out of
[23:18:14] <flyback> it's not as horrible as asbestus etc but it can still probably cause a lot of lung irritation
[23:18:16] <flyback> ah ok
[23:18:27] <ziper> wood or foam lol
[23:18:29] <Tom_L> gawd doen't anybody pay attention
[23:18:47] <flyback> must be adhd singles night
[23:18:48] <flyback> *zing*
[23:19:05] <_unreal_> ziper, if your milling FOAM you could get a $350 usd mill off the internet that would do the job just fine
[23:19:15] <_unreal_> and fit your work area
[23:19:21] <ziper> where
[23:19:24] <_unreal_> Tom_L, ?
[23:19:31] <_unreal_> ziper, try amazon for starters
[23:19:42] <_unreal_> 40x12x3 is very small
[23:19:46] <roycroft> a good, common example would be a catalytic convert for an automobile exhaust system
[23:19:52] <_unreal_> though 40" long is interesting...
[23:19:58] <flyback> _unreal_,
[23:20:01] <flyback> i HAVE SEEN that
[23:20:07] <_unreal_> flyback, ?
[23:20:07] <roycroft> a tiny amount of platinum converts many tons of exhaust gases before it is no longer effective
[23:20:08] <flyback> guy build a cnc mill for foam for planes
[23:20:16] <roycroft> and even then that platinum can be recovered by a recycler
[23:20:17] <flyback> it was just steppers and taunt heating coil wires
[23:20:21] <_unreal_> flyback, thats a hot wire
[23:20:28] <flyback> yeah it was awesome
[23:20:40] <ziper> I don't think that can do washout or shit
[23:20:48] <flyback> roycroft, yep
[23:20:50] <_unreal_> I dont know if he is planing on using a hot wire OR an end mill style
[23:21:01] <ziper> and I want something that can make bulkheads. I should go bigger than 12. maybe 24 or 30
[23:21:11] <flyback> some of those catalysts are worth recovering the dust left on the machine even
[23:21:18] <flyback> this one plant
[23:21:21] <_unreal_> ziper, ahhh
[23:21:24] <flyback> their doormats
[23:21:26] <flyback> suck in
[23:21:29] <Tom_L> hotwire will sag in the center
[23:21:30] <flyback> to get any dust that came off
[23:21:30] <_unreal_> I build boats for a living
[23:21:49] <_unreal_> Tom_L, depends on speed and temp
[23:22:00] <_unreal_> and wire guage and other factors
[23:22:14] <_unreal_> ziper, I can answer any FRP question you have
[23:22:29] <_unreal_> ziper, also if your going to use a CNC mill for cutting fiberglass you use a rotory rasp
[23:22:39] <ziper> IM NOT CUTTING ANY FIBERGLASS
[23:23:00] <flyback> https://www.youtube.com
[23:23:06] <flyback> OWNS YOUR "CANUCK"........................CANUCK
[23:23:09] <_unreal_> ziper, https://www.lowes.com
[23:23:16] <infornography> You know what would be good for cutting fiberglass
[23:23:25] * flyback punches SpeedEvil
[23:23:33] <flyback> ziper, we know
[23:23:40] <_unreal_> infornography, lets hear it
[23:23:51] <ziper> a plasma torch
[23:23:57] <infornography> yes
[23:24:05] <flyback> man ballscrews may be slow
[23:24:15] <flyback> btu they seem to be cheap and damn well reliable as all
[23:24:25] -!- gloops has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
[23:24:35] <_unreal_> ziper, there are different ways to make molds
[23:25:14] <ziper> I definitely don't want to try making a plug out of a complicated foil section
[23:25:44] <_unreal_> ziper, I would suggest using the mill to do a FINE pitch finish form. and then use FRP bagging plastic. and SUCK it down over the form. use light heat to let it streach. that way you can a nice finish part.
[23:26:09] <_unreal_> to lay up on while its under vacuum. and you can make you part off of the splash form you made.
[23:26:12] <_unreal_> I do that all the time
[23:26:29] <ziper> cant I get a plastic to succ down that I can epoxy to the mold
[23:26:35] <_unreal_> OR I form the part in foams like h80 FRP foam. and wrap them in blue masking tape
[23:26:35] <flyback> does impregnating the plastic mold with paffin or something
[23:26:40] <ziper> I dont want to have to run two vacuum pumps
[23:26:43] <flyback> give it resistance to sticking to the fiberglass
[23:26:49] <_unreal_> ziper, ?
[23:27:35] <_unreal_> ahh there are different ways to do everything. What I said is make the splash. that means you make a FORM of the finished part. and make a mold of it. so you can build parts
[23:28:35] <flyback> Tom_L, https://www.youtube.com
[23:28:38] <flyback> sag my ass
[23:28:56] <ziper> _unreal_, assuming the same resin, how does a post cure compare with curing at hi temp
[23:29:27] <flyback> is one a fast cure?
[23:29:38] <flyback> sometimes fast cures trade strength for speed
[23:29:46] <flyback> dunno what is the case with fiberglass
[23:30:05] <ziper> the epoxy system I use is +-5% for the fast medium or slow
[23:31:27] -!- infornography has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[23:35:33] <_unreal_> ziper, post cure happens over time OR in a more rapid environment
[23:35:50] <_unreal_> depends on the resin
[23:35:54] <_unreal_> What resin are you using?
[23:36:02] <_unreal_> we use PROSET mainly
[23:36:07] <_unreal_> proset and gflex
[23:36:11] <_unreal_> and plexus
[23:37:11] <_unreal_> ziper, a post cure can be as simple as leaving the item in the sun for four to eight hours, letting it get to 140f
[23:37:16] <_unreal_> depends on the size
[23:37:37] <ziper> its from US composites
[23:37:53] <_unreal_> wopty do.... what is the brand name?
[23:38:01] <ziper> idk lol
[23:38:07] <_unreal_> then i can help
[23:38:14] <_unreal_> l o and l
[23:38:18] <_unreal_> cnat
[23:38:20] <_unreal_> cant
[23:38:25] <_unreal_> I cant even cant
[23:38:30] <ziper> _unreal_, http://puu.sh
[23:41:34] <_unreal_> 24 Hours at 77F + 2 Hours at 250F They want a 2 hour post cure
[23:41:49] <_unreal_> That is JUST an oven temp no special anything
[23:42:39] <_unreal_> The idea behind the post sure is you form the part leave it in the mold AND remove it from the mold after post cure to reduce warping
[23:43:26] <_unreal_> ziper, use the medium hardener. it has the best working results
[23:43:59] <_unreal_> That stuff seems cheap though. the mixing ratios change for the different hardeners
[23:44:01] <_unreal_> ODD
[23:44:10] <ziper> usually I do, I only use the slow if I am mixing in a thickener becuase then it kicks in 1 or 2 minutes
[23:44:22] <ziper> doesnt bother me. do the specs look decent?
[23:44:27] <_unreal_> Or at least thats how I read it
[23:44:59] <_unreal_> med.... thermals on you in 2min with a thickener?
[23:45:14] <_unreal_> ouch
[23:45:42] <_unreal_> ziper, do you mix your resin FIRST then add thick. or mix it all at once?
[23:45:55] <ziper> mix first
[23:46:01] <_unreal_> GOOD!!!!
[23:46:58] <ziper> is it worth gettings the most vacuum possible to lower my resin ratio that last couple percent?
[23:47:42] <_unreal_> you can ONLY pull vacuum to your altitude......
[23:48:20] <_unreal_> if your at sea level like I am, because I'm in south florida. I get a full 30" of mercury... or about 14.7 LBS of air pressure per square inch....
[23:48:48] <_unreal_> if you are not in a low lying area, then you need to put the part is a special hyper baric chaimber
[23:49:02] <_unreal_> to put high pressure on the outside of the molded part.
[23:49:24] <_unreal_> all in all.. worth it yes. but.... depends on a few factors
[23:50:48] <ziper> _unreal_, im in south florida...
[23:53:05] <_unreal_> ?
[23:53:08] <_unreal_> where
[23:54:20] <_unreal_> boca
[23:54:42] <ziper> pm
[23:58:42] <_unreal_> ziper, a place for you to check out is fiberglass coatings
[23:58:57] <ziper> yeah I get most of my stuff from FGCI
[23:59:06] <ziper> well, some of it
[23:59:11] <ziper> the stuff that can't be shipped
[23:59:19] <_unreal_> https://www.fgci.com
[23:59:29] <_unreal_> ok