#linuxcnc | Logs for 2018-09-26

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[00:00:17] <skunkworks> cut the threads in oak turning backwards..
[00:00:29] <Tom_L> you break the cutter or just gauld the back side of it?
[00:00:53] <Tom_L> or caught it before you went to steel
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[00:04:30] <skunkworks> caught it
[00:06:00] <Tom_L> oh.. how do you touch off the cutter on one of those?
[00:06:20] <Tom_L> try to get close to the point or allow for it when you touch off?
[00:06:50] <Tom_L> otherwise it would be off a few thousandths
[00:09:45] <skunkworks> idk... i am sure there is a trick to it
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[00:10:06] <Tom_L> maybe add half a thread to the model to allow for that
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[00:11:09] <Tom_L> that would still vary due to the thread pitch
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[00:38:13] <skunkworks> sure
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[01:15:57] <CaptHindsight> peep
[01:17:50] <skunkworks> peep
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[01:20:46] <CaptHindsight> no logs yet for today, thought I'd make a peep
[01:20:57] <CaptHindsight> up late machining
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[01:31:16] <veek> what kind of wire do they use in making nails
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[01:42:29] <veek> nm http://www.nailmakingmachine.net
[01:43:16] <veek> SAE 1008/1006) have #45 ,#65 steel wire for making concrete nails and C1022 steel wire for making screw nails. 380-400 per MT.
[01:44:05] <veek> steel wire coil diameter is 6.5 mm or 5.5 mm ,2 mt per coil.
[01:44:36] <veek> hmm how do they reduce the wire down to 1/2 for a nail
[01:46:45] <veek> http://www.nailmakingmachine.net *purrs*
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[02:18:33] <veek> anyone have a life size wire gauge chart
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[02:57:41] <Deejay> moin
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[04:07:39] <diverdude> Anyone knows how accelstepper handles the situation where i ask it to move X steps at an acceleration which is so slow that there is not enough steps to go to full speed? How much will it accel and deaccelerate in this case?
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[05:56:54] <jthornton> morning
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[05:59:29] <XXCoder> hey
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[06:18:59] <Tom_L> morning
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[06:19:23] <Tom_L> 53�F Hi 69
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[06:23:16] <jthornton> that arrives here tomorrow we are still 70°F with a high of 71°F
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[07:59:50] <jthornton> damn that code drove me nuts till I figured out what stupid mistake I made
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[08:00:51] <XXCoder> what was wrong
[08:01:08] <jthornton> or should have been and
[08:01:16] <XXCoder> oh thats fun
[08:01:33] <jthornton> yea, it's like WTF is wrong then it hits you
[08:01:44] <XXCoder> my worse so far is LACK of one line
[08:01:46] <rmu> diverdude: it will accelerate half time and then decelerate, will not reach top speed
[08:01:54] <XXCoder> something->pointerthing = null;
[08:02:23] <jthornton> rmu: that depends on how the trajectory planner is setup
[08:02:56] <jthornton> http://linuxcnc.org
[08:03:03] <rmu> ok, assumption was initial speed = final speed = 0
[08:03:09] <XXCoder> jthornton: that bug was hell to debug. In fact I didnt discover the bug till I tested script that repeated a small loop
[08:03:16] <XXCoder> second loop would run infinitely. really confused me
[08:03:30] <jthornton> I hate when that happens lol
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[08:03:49] <jthornton> anyway on to make a i2c buss and get the oled working
[08:03:49] <XXCoder> well as it turns out without null assignment, it had dirty data and it pointed back to old data that then ran into that one again
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[08:04:08] <jthornton> ouch that is bad
[08:04:14] <rmu> jthornton: don't know what you mean
[08:04:47] <XXCoder> yeah. it was so evil that it worked perfectly unless there is tiny chance
[08:04:55] <XXCoder> then it freezes
[08:05:12] <XXCoder> took me 8 hours to figure out
[08:05:20] <jthornton> rmu: G61 is different than G64 which is different from G64Pn
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[08:06:57] <rmu> jthornton: i was referring to diverdude's question from 4 hours ago
[08:07:04] <rmu> should have looked at timestamp
[08:07:08] <jthornton> XXCoder: I thought I would go for a ride on the mountain bike till I walked outside to let the chickens out
[08:07:41] <jthornton> yea the answer to his question depends on how the trajectory planner is programmed
[08:08:53] <rmu> the trajectory planner is only involved if there is more than one move
[08:08:56] <XXCoder> gloomy weather?
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[08:09:26] <jthornton> rained last night so the trails will be muddy
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[08:10:06] <jthornton> rmu: yea that is another unknown for his question, so the answer is not enough information to answer
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[08:13:24] <rmu> whatever the planner decides to do, for linear moves, each axis is accelerated/decelerated with const acceleration, depending on start/exit velocity and length on segment, optionally a part with constant velocity happens in between. very short moves can directly accelerate from start to exit velocity if any of those are nonzero.
[08:14:16] <rmu> relevant for diverdude: acceleration limits will not be exceeded, if they are, it is a bug ;-)
[08:15:09] <jthornton> I wonder if that is what he was asking?
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[08:18:06] <rmu> how much it will accelerate and decelerate in case full speed can not be reached because move is too short
[08:18:33] <rmu> if initial speed = final speed = 0 then it will accelerate to some speed for half the move and decelerate for the other half
[08:20:04] <rmu> whatever. diverdude can ask again. EOT.
[08:20:33] <sensille> he was talking of some android library
[08:22:42] <jthornton> awesome this 2.1 oled works on 3.3v
[08:23:31] <rmu> mea culpa. my fault then, should have left it alone in linuxcnc channel
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[12:18:00] <fragalot> Hey
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[12:21:44] <Tom_L> hi
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[12:25:49] <fragalot> even with direct instructions to delivery guys, they still hand off packages to my 104 year old neighbour >.>
[12:27:17] <Tom_L> ppl don't listen much anymore
[12:27:26] <Tom_L> goes in one ear and right out the other
[12:27:55] <fragalot> not sure if it makes it that far :P
[12:28:14] <Tom_L> it's hollow inside
[12:31:11] <pcw_home> I think Amazon delivery persons are the worst I've seen (dumping stuff in the bushes if you don't answer the door in 10 seconds)
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[12:39:51] <Loetmichel> pcw_home: in germany "Hermes" delivery guys easily top the Amazin guys.
[12:39:59] <Loetmichel> -i+o
[12:40:23] <Loetmichel> ( if its not the same guy, Amazon uses all kinds of delivery services here in germany)
[12:40:35] <Loetmichel> (whatever is cheapest at the time i assume)
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[13:53:21] * JT-Shop gets all the way to town and the clamp that holds the seat on the road bike breaks... was a fun ride back
[13:54:21] <Tom_L> don't sit down
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[13:56:03] <JT-Shop> I managed to jam the seat down on the post and gently sit on it but it was then very low so lots of extra work to pedal lol
[13:56:37] <JT-Shop> crap the part that broke is not a simple part...
[13:56:57] <Tom_L> i snapped a pedal off once going up a hill
[13:57:03] <Tom_L> that was fun
[13:57:13] <JT-Shop> ouch
[13:57:48] <Tom_L> you can machine a new one...
[13:59:06] <Tom_L> have you ever used a thread mill?
[13:59:31] <Tom_L> i'm wondering how to touch off
[14:00:05] <JT-Shop> I have one but never used it
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[14:00:28] * JT-Shop wanders to town to see if the local bicycle shop has one first
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[14:14:37] <gregcnc> Tom_L I touch off the bottom, as surely you don't want to crash it in the bottom of a bore by mistake. For cutting threads I account for the distance from bottom to tip in the program
[14:15:10] <Tom_L> that's what i was thinking
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[14:15:32] <Tom_L> i considered adding half a thread but depending on the pitch it could be more or less than that
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[14:16:50] <gregcnc> check the catalog for the distance (or measure/eyeball) I also add a small amount for clearance
[14:17:05] <Rab> 15% off eBay right now (US/Canada): https://pages.ebay.com
[14:17:13] <Tom_L> nice thing is you can cut inside, outside, right or left hand threads with one tool
[14:17:40] <gregcnc> yes versatile if slow
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[14:19:50] <gregcnc> ooh 15% off, I still have 10% ebay bucks through today
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[14:20:28] <Tom_L> not good here
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[14:21:04] <Tom_L> valid on Sept 27
[14:21:27] <gregcnc> oh start tmr
[14:22:19] <Rab> Egad, my mistake
[14:22:43] <Tom_L> better than having it for yesterday
[14:22:54] * Tom_L makes a note to order something tomorrow
[14:24:42] <gregcnc> sometimes tooling is so tough to track down
[14:25:23] <beachbumpete1> Tom_L whatcha workin' on?
[14:25:54] <Tom_L> nothin really. i wanna try out thread milling since my spindle motor is too small for rigid tappnig
[14:26:17] <Tom_L> if it works good i'll have an alternative way to make threads
[14:26:21] <gregcnc> http://www.iscar.com
[14:26:22] <beachbumpete1> ah
[14:26:48] <gregcnc> these aren't that common but it seems every make has a slightly different ISO code
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[14:27:31] <Tom_L> maybe that's for cam tool description codes for the industry
[14:28:04] <beachbumpete1> https://i.imgur.com
[14:28:28] <beachbumpete1> https://i.imgur.com
[14:28:46] <beachbumpete1> https://i.imgur.com
[14:29:06] <Tom_L> 3d scanner?
[14:29:11] <beachbumpete1> Some point clouds from scans we took of a house we are siding
[14:29:16] <beachbumpete1> yeah
[14:29:27] <beachbumpete1> I thought it looked pretty cool
[14:29:39] <Tom_L> yep
[14:30:03] <beachbumpete1> now we are trying to wrap head around using the data inside 3D Autocad to create planes on the faces
[14:30:50] <beachbumpete1> then we can measure and show the shimming and firring necessary to make our way around the house without too much drama.
[14:31:51] <gregcnc> what's the accuracy of a scan like that?
[14:32:04] <beachbumpete1> thats a damn good question
[14:32:09] <beachbumpete1> :)
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[14:33:32] <gregcnc> sorry i ask the tough questions
[14:33:34] <beachbumpete1> the accuracy of the scanner is listed at 10mm at 10 meters but the volume of the data overlaps considerably allowing for presumably more accuracy. In our actual scans measurements compared to take measured by hand measurements it has not been off more than an 1/8" or so at most
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[14:34:11] <gregcnc> ok so there are multiple scans to make that
[14:34:11] <beachbumpete1> most of the time it is fairly spot on to actual dimensions
[14:34:18] <beachbumpete1> oh hell yeah
[14:34:38] <beachbumpete1> that is actually like 25 scans from numerous locations atop scaffolding etc....
[14:34:46] <gregcnc> wow ok
[14:35:10] <beachbumpete1> the scanner was normally no more than a few feet from the walls we are trying to get data on.
[14:35:37] <beachbumpete1> those images are also cropped considerably it used to have all the trees and cars and whatnot around the property.
[14:36:02] <gregcnc> are datums required or does software find overlaps
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[14:36:20] <beachbumpete1> This is my first big scan and we are moving slowly to learn how to use this tool and what data we can use as well as how accurate it is...
[14:36:54] <beachbumpete1> software finds overlaps as long as you give it half a chance. Otherwise you can manually register the scans using a series of common points.
[14:37:12] <gregcnc> sounds like fun
[14:37:20] <beachbumpete1> it is interesting indeed
[14:37:25] <gregcnc> new stuff always is
[14:37:36] <beachbumpete1> Autocad pro is impressive to say the least.
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[14:38:10] <beachbumpete1> you have a good bit of manipulation available to you in regard to the cloud points.
[14:38:50] <Tom_L> nice big files too
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[14:39:34] <gregcnc> isn't that why they make bigger and faster computer hardware?
[14:39:39] <Tom_L> they do that stuff at the vo-tech here. we got to go to that department once and see all their toys
[14:39:49] <Tom_L> it still takes time
[14:40:32] <gregcnc> surely much faster than the alternative
[14:42:17] <FinboySlick> Tom_L: I'm stuck with thread milling too. Works pretty darn good mind you.
[14:43:02] <FinboySlick> https://www.youtube.com
[14:43:25] <Tom_L> near as i can tell i can do #10 and M5 M6 all with one cutter
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[14:44:09] <Tom_L> you start from the bottom?
[14:44:20] <FinboySlick> Yes, so the chips don't all mash up at the bottom.
[14:44:21] <gregcnc> I always climb cut
[14:44:37] <FinboySlick> In this case it isn't a blind hole so it doesn't matter as much.
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[14:45:23] <Tom_L> gregcnc i found it works quite a bit better on my mill too
[14:46:27] <gregcnc> in regard to thread milling climb cut internal right hand means you start at the bottom.
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[14:49:27] <Tom_L> do you program the major diameter as given in the data sheets?
[14:50:35] <FinboySlick> Tom_L: I had to tweak a bit from whatever HSMWorks and Solidworks picked for me, but it's a weird thread size.
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[14:50:53] <gregcnc> usually I have a mating part to match which has been made/ measured
[14:51:23] <gregcnc> if it was important I'd use a gage
[14:51:27] <FinboySlick> Was too tight 'as modeled' but I don't know where the error lies.
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[14:52:21] <gregcnc> and use cutter comp to adjust final pass
[14:53:09] <Tom_L> it's a necessity but i'm not fond of using cutter comp
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[14:53:40] <gregcnc> cutter comp is wonderful and long as you don't screw it up
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[14:54:13] <Tom_L> yeah
[14:55:03] <gregcnc> figure out what works and put it into a spreadsheet of macro
[14:55:16] <gregcnc> or macro
[14:55:43] <Tom_L> yeah, once i do some i'll have the cad data to get them right
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[14:57:18] <Tom_L> i'm not gonna go out and buy thread gages though :)
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[15:43:42] <diverdude> Hi, so I have motors setup like this: https://imgur.com Is it possible to buy external encoder to put on or do motors come with encoders internally incorporated, so I have to buy new motors with encoders builtin?
[15:44:24] <fragalot> encoders can be added externally if you need them
[15:44:43] <diverdude> fragalot: oh cool - can you maybe point me to some really good ones :)
[15:44:56] <fragalot> phoenix, sick, ...
[15:45:00] <fragalot> what resolution do you need?
[15:45:20] <diverdude> fragalot: is it possible to get submillimeter?
[15:45:42] <gregcnc> you can get 25bits per rev...
[15:45:51] <fragalot> diverdude: sure. either you can get a linear encoder and mount it elsewhere, or you can get a rotary encoder
[15:45:52] <diverdude> oh nice
[15:45:54] <fragalot> depends on what your need is
[15:45:59] <fragalot> or what you want to accomplish
[15:46:13] <gloops> put an encoder on the shaft
[15:46:20] <diverdude> fragalot: hmm ok...i just want to know where im at even if i am slipping :D
[15:46:36] <gloops> (screw shaft)
[15:46:57] <fragalot> diverdude: how is the shaft that you turn moving the axis?
[15:47:04] <diverdude> gloops: sorry...im not native english...which one is the screw shaft again?
[15:48:09] <fragalot> diverdude: if you have a shaft that is positively coupled, you can use an incremental rotary encoder on there
[15:48:28] <Wolf__> why not ask what the machine is first ;P
[15:48:34] <fragalot> if you do not, or don't trust it, you can put an optical or magnetic scale completely separately
[15:48:38] <fragalot> Wolf__: NEVER! :D
[15:48:40] <fragalot> always assume
[15:48:48] <Wolf__> lol
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[15:49:26] <diverdude> fragalot: hmm im not really sure if its positively coupled or not
[15:49:37] <fragalot> diverdude: do you have an overview picture
[15:49:49] <diverdude> yeah, hang on
[15:50:03] <gregcnc> you could squeeze a though hole encoder right next to the bearing spports on the shaft
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[15:53:16] <diverdude> fragalot: mmm i dont know if this gives you more insight: https://imgur.com
[15:53:44] <diverdude> fragalot: there are 2 motors....its the same motor in both pictures
[15:53:54] <diverdude> fragalot: but the other one works in same way
[15:54:01] <gloops> sorry ive got sausages in the pan
[15:54:19] <fragalot> if you trust the belts to not slip, you can put a rotary encoder on the shaft
[15:54:31] <Wolf__> looks like co2 laser setup
[15:54:38] <fragalot> if you don't, you can still install linear encoders fully separate from the belt drive system
[15:54:46] <diverdude> fragalot: hmm im not sure if the belts will not slip...they may actually
[15:55:04] <fragalot> then install either an optical or magnetic linear encoder scale :)
[15:55:11] <gregcnc> why should they slip?
[15:55:37] <diverdude> gregcnc: well...im just a skeptic kind of guy...i dont trust those belts :D
[15:55:53] <fragalot> https://www.machine-dro.co.uk <== cheapie but alrighty
[15:55:56] <diverdude> gregcnc: better play it safe hehe
[15:56:00] <Wolf__> whats the cutting tool load?
[15:56:21] <diverdude> fragalot: optical or magnetic encoder sounds cool
[15:56:31] <diverdude> Wolf__: me?
[15:56:40] <gregcnc> I forget, do we have a example of steppers with encoders working
[15:57:07] <diverdude> Wolf__: its not a cutting tool...its carrying an aluminium frame which is a couple of kilos
[15:57:13] <Wolf__> yeah, application would determine if I would worry about slipping or not
[15:57:33] <diverdude> Wolf__: its quite light load
[15:58:04] <fragalot> gregcnc: my build is a hybrid setup like that
[15:58:10] <fragalot> except the drive takes care of it :P
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[15:58:34] <gregcnc> tha'ts different
[15:58:56] <Wolf__> I’m thinking about using clear path servos on my plasma cnc for that reason
[15:59:06] <diverdude> fragalot: wow they seem quite big
[15:59:51] <fragalot> diverdude: magnetic ones are tiny
[16:00:01] <fragalot> it's like a 1x10mm strip of magnetic material, and a tiny read head
[16:00:08] <diverdude> fragalot: nice - do you have a link to some good magnetic encoder?
[16:00:36] <XXCoder> behold: the sphere. https://www.amazon.com
[16:00:43] <fragalot> I used the oens from M-DRO on the website I linked
[16:01:00] <diverdude> XXCoder: wooow....that looks dope :D
[16:01:02] <fragalot> https://photos.app.goo.gl
[16:01:22] <fragalot> https://photos.app.goo.gl
[16:01:26] <diverdude> fragalot: yeah they look cool
[16:01:36] <fragalot> etc
[16:02:27] <gloops> i forget the really cheap hack on ebay for a reasonable encoder
[16:02:45] <gloops> bicycle milometer or something
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[16:03:10] <fragalot> low resolution, but sure
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[16:03:49] <diverdude> fragalot: ahh the magnetic ones how low resolution?
[16:04:06] <fragalot> diverdude: 0.005mm for the standard, or 0.001mm if you pay more and hate yourself
[16:04:27] <diverdude> fragalot: i hate myself but i like 0.001mm :D
[16:04:37] <fragalot> you really won't :D
[16:04:48] <fragalot> sneeze nearby and the number changes
[16:04:49] <diverdude> fragalot: oh...show me da stuff
[16:04:53] <diverdude> ohhh
[16:04:56] <diverdude> thats bad
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[16:05:39] <diverdude> i guess the rattling from the moving machine will induce erros in those encoders then if they are so sensitive
[16:05:49] <fragalot> yup
[16:05:53] <fragalot> https://www.machine-dro.co.uk <==
[16:05:56] <fragalot> they're not really errors
[16:06:01] <fragalot> your machine really IS moving that much
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[16:06:38] <diverdude> heh yeah ok
[16:06:53] <diverdude> oh, so many...and they got a nifty little price tag on em too :D
[16:07:12] <fragalot> magnetics cost money :)
[16:07:16] <gloops> https://www.ebay.co.uk
[16:07:19] <gloops> these dont
[16:07:38] <fragalot> gloops: that's because that is not an encoder
[16:07:46] <fragalot> it's just a switch
[16:07:48] <gloops> yeah thats not what i was looking for
[16:08:46] <diverdude> fragalot: which one has less error? optical or magnetic?
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[16:09:08] <fragalot> magnetic puts less strain on your machine
[16:09:14] <fragalot> optical drags because of the seal
[16:09:27] <fragalot> but optical is _cheap_ :)
[16:09:59] <diverdude> sounds like magnetic is what i want...but they all seem to have a serial port connection
[16:10:02] <diverdude> :/
[16:10:17] <fragalot> that's just a connector, it's a standard 5V encoder signal
[16:10:31] <fragalot> I should have the manual for them lying around in my shed
[16:10:37] <fragalot> I can send you a copy tomorrow if you want
[16:10:50] <diverdude> fragalot: oh yeah that'd be awesome.
[16:11:00] <fragalot> alright - remind me tomorrow :)
[16:11:13] <diverdude> fragalot: would be cool to have usb interface instead
[16:11:25] <fragalot> usb is far too slow for encoders
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[16:11:30] <diverdude> oh really
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[16:11:44] <fragalot> if you want them to be useful, yeah
[16:11:44] <diverdude> i thought usb was way faster than serial
[16:11:54] <fragalot> it is faster at continuous throughput
[16:11:56] <fragalot> but it's not realtime
[16:12:02] <diverdude> aha
[16:12:03] <Rab> Faster, maybe less deterministic?
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[16:58:52] <Deejay> gn8
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