#linuxcnc | Logs for 2018-10-18

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[03:11:01] <Deejay> moin
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[03:18:53] <selroc> log
[03:18:53] <c-log> selroc: Today's Log http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81
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[05:41:18] <Loetmichel> heeeelp... just started the company 6040... loaede a program, touched off... hit "r"... and broke the bit because the spindle didnt turn on...
[05:41:59] <Loetmichel> tested it: it works if i click on the icon for "spindle clockwise", but not if i hit F9 OR an M03 in the program. How could THAT happen?
[05:42:28] <Loetmichel> (and that was my last 8mm long 2mm TC mill bit :-( )
[05:48:50] <XXCoder> bleh
[05:48:56] <XXCoder> wonder what happened
[05:49:54] <Loetmichel> i think it has to do with the update of linuxCNC i was prompted to install two days ago... still had LCNC running, so today is the first time with the new version...
[05:50:18] <Loetmichel> aaand we have a new update waiting... i'll try installing that, maybe it remedies the issue?
[05:52:14] <XXCoder> look at update notes
[05:54:29] <Loetmichel> mope, doesent help at all
[05:55:13] <Loetmichel> still no reaction to F9 or M03, but the icon for "spindle clockwise" on the axxis gui works flawlessly...?!?
[05:56:00] <XXCoder> try m4
[05:56:10] <XXCoder> see if it works and spins backwards
[05:56:16] <Loetmichel> you mean counter clockwise?
[05:56:19] <XXCoder> fif you use S word with it? yeah
[05:56:26] <Loetmichel> yes i did
[05:56:39] <XXCoder> ok had to be sure maybe somehow its set to s0
[05:56:56] <jthornton> morning
[05:57:01] <XXCoder> hey jt
[05:57:34] <jthornton> dang this pc is getting harder and harder to wake up
[05:58:02] <Loetmichel> so, checked in the f5 tab: neiter M02, M03, M04 work.
[05:58:34] <Loetmichel> and it says "S24000" at the bottom of the tab, so it got the S command correctly
[05:58:37] <XXCoder> what exactly does cw start button do anyway?
[05:58:42] <Loetmichel> any more ideas?
[05:58:48] <Loetmichel> it switcehs a relay
[05:59:27] <XXCoder> hm I wonder if theres some HAL issue that appeared by change in linuxcnc
[06:00:02] <Loetmichel> i even treid to rerun stepconf again
[06:00:06] <Loetmichel> no help either
[06:00:23] <jthornton> Loetmichel: are you running master?
[06:00:57] <XXCoder> doubtful its HAL unless youre using some strange machine setup stepconf basically works as is for our cheap machines
[06:01:23] <Loetmichel> jthornton: what master???
[06:01:51] <jthornton> LinuxCNC version
[06:02:18] <XXCoder> does compile version show in About, like Master or whatever?
[06:02:48] <jthornton> ah it will say 2.8 with some stuff after that
[06:03:13] <XXCoder> he got it from update so I guess its whatever repos has
[06:03:25] <XXCoder> which is probably master
[06:03:34] <Loetmichel> LinuxCNC axis 2.8.0 pre1 3910 gbedc7e5
[06:03:43] <jthornton> whatever he started with not whatever the repo has
[06:04:08] <jthornton> well I think Andy's multi spindle was merged with 2.8 a few days ago...
[06:04:33] <XXCoder> I wonder if that changed how HAL works for spindle
[06:04:38] <Loetmichel> so what do you suggest to get that back to running condition?
[06:05:08] <Loetmichel> (also io am missing the "ref all" button for quite a few versions now, why did THAT disappear?)
[06:05:31] <jthornton> no clue, using master is always a risk
[06:05:33] <rmu> Loetmichel: any reason you are running the development version? 2.7.X would be stable
[06:05:55] <jthornton> if you have a gantry with two motors you need master
[06:05:59] <Loetmichel> rmu: its what autoinstalled when i made a new PC a few years ago
[06:06:22] <Loetmichel> so normal update path
[06:06:24] <jthornton> that don't sound right
[06:06:42] <jthornton> it's not the standard version that you get with the livecd
[06:06:47] <Loetmichel> never changed anything in the update config
[06:06:57] <rmu> jthornton: only if you want to drive the two motors somewhat independently. nothing prevents connecting two motors to one stepgen.
[06:07:24] <Loetmichel> this system is installed from live CD. i am not aware that i have ever changed anything regarding repos and versions
[06:07:37] <jthornton> the live cd does not install 2.8
[06:08:20] <jthornton> rmu: homing prevents you from connecting two motors to one stepgen as they are not longer independent
[06:08:31] <rmu> strange. i was under the impression that 2.8 needs additional sections in its ini file, and i wonder if upgrade of .deb can provide those...
[06:08:51] <Loetmichel> so what do i do now?
[06:09:04] <Loetmichel> is there a way to downgrade again without reinstalling the system?
[06:09:10] <jthornton> from 2.7 to 2.8 the configuration is not the same
[06:09:33] <Loetmichel> shouldnt that be remedied by using stepconf?
[06:09:38] <jthornton> yea you can change the repository
[06:09:59] <jthornton> no, stepconf has no clue what your OS or version is
[06:10:10] <Loetmichel> hmm..idea: maybe stepconf still thinks its the old LCNC version?
[06:10:34] <XXCoder> loet check menu see if you has 2 linuxcnc versions
[06:10:57] <jthornton> stepconf does not care what version you have, after you run it if you have 2.8 the conversion script converts your confiugration to 2.8 type
[06:11:24] <Loetmichel> nope
[06:11:28] <Loetmichel> only one version
[06:11:30] <jthornton> AFAIK 2.7 and 2.8 can't coexist
[06:11:45] <XXCoder> yeah doubted it just wanted to double check
[06:12:18] <jthornton> Loetmichel: do you have a backup copy of your configuration from when it was converted to 2.8
[06:13:20] <Loetmichel> jthornton: so if i ran Stepconf on "modify config" it autoconverts it?
[06:13:22] <Loetmichel> nope
[06:13:27] <Loetmichel> no backup
[06:13:54] <jthornton> no, stepconf does not know about 2.8 which has me confused about your setup
[06:14:53] <Loetmichel> i have installed that with a 2016 live cd IIRC, then just updated it as prompted by the /!\ gadget
[06:15:06] <Loetmichel> always the "safe update"
[06:15:24] <jthornton> then you should not have 2.8 as it would never be from the livecd
[06:15:38] <Loetmichel> no idea how that happened
[06:15:51] <XXCoder> I wonder if someone misconfigured repo and it had 2,8
[06:15:59] <XXCoder> server end not pc side
[06:16:00] <jthornton> doubt it
[06:16:33] <jthornton> Loetmichel: what OS are you using? Debian something?
[06:16:38] <Loetmichel> yes
[06:17:15] <jthornton> open the synaptic package manager
[06:18:31] <Loetmichel> and?
[06:19:42] <jthornton> settings repositories
[06:19:55] <jthornton> see what deb line you have for linuxcnc
[06:25:48] <Loetmichel> moment, just installed tightVNCserver on the machine... a bit to lazy to run across the company another 50 times.
[06:26:45] <jthornton> it will help you loose weight :)
[06:27:18] <XXCoder> iron legs
[06:29:08] * jthornton struggles to try and understand what magic this program has to run the digole lcd http://my-small-projects.blogspot.com
[06:29:30] <jthornton> and why so many includes?
[06:30:28] <XXCoder> is it still headless with screen showing logo and ip address? techinically speaking
[06:30:52] <jthornton> I think this is the magic line sprintf(buf,argv[1]);
[06:31:12] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[06:31:28] <Loetmichel> today is not my day... VNC connects... shows grey screen...
[06:31:33] <Loetmichel> maaaan
[06:32:03] <jthornton> what about teamviewer?
[06:32:13] <jthornton> I've used that in the past
[06:32:28] <Loetmichel> its VNC also, just routed thru america
[06:32:36] <Loetmichel> i wouldnt use it if i can avoid it
[06:32:51] <Loetmichel> anyways, where was the problem with the repositories?
[06:33:19] <jthornton> no problems that I know of with repositories
[06:33:38] <jthornton> just trying to figure out which one your using as there are two
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[06:35:57] <Loetmichel> i see both linuxCNC.org and buildbot.linuxCNC.org in the sources list
[06:36:07] <Loetmichel> if you mean those two
[06:36:16] <jthornton> are both of them checked as enabled?
[06:36:19] <Loetmichel> yes
[06:36:53] <Loetmichel> actually its 2 linuxCNC.org and 3 or 4 buildbot lines active
[06:36:54] <jthornton> linuxcnc.org is 2.7 and buildbot.linuxcnc.org can be either 2.7 or 2.8
[06:37:03] <jthornton> wow
[06:37:12] <XXCoder> wow something strange happened
[06:37:35] <jthornton> yea if you have the dev installed then two per version
[06:37:50] <Loetmichel> buildbot has 2 lines "master-rt" and 2 lines "2.7rt"
[06:38:06] <XXCoder> you can force it to install earlier version in synaptic
[06:38:15] <XXCoder> then remove those extras
[06:38:17] <Loetmichel> each one compiled and one sources i belive
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[06:39:33] <jthornton> AFAIK if you have both linuxcnc and buildbot enabled then the SPM will pick the latest one ie 2.8
[06:41:10] <Loetmichel> hmm.. wonder how THAT happened... i am the most qualified at the company when it comes to linux... and my expertise is "limited" to say the least... i suspect the russian coworker to have messed with it... he has that "what could go wrong" attitude...
[06:41:21] <Loetmichel> *sigh* not like i have enough to do already...
[06:41:42] <XXCoder> heh well simple enough to fix though
[06:41:46] <Loetmichel> is there a way to get the config up to 2.8 levels? so that the spindle works again?
[06:41:48] <jthornton> that sounds plausible for sure
[06:42:05] <XXCoder> in synaptic right click linuxcnc revert to previous version, then when done remove the buildot
[06:42:20] <Loetmichel> both or just the master?
[06:42:20] <XXCoder> cant de-admin that guy?
[06:42:36] <Loetmichel> XXCoder: the CNC has only one (admin) account
[06:42:40] <XXCoder> just buildbot
[06:42:42] <Loetmichel> never bothered to make another
[06:43:24] <jthornton> 2.8 is the reason your spindles don't work I suspect from the multi spindle commits just added to 2.8
[06:43:52] <jthornton> do you still have the stepconf file?
[06:45:57] <XXCoder> Loetmichel: you can add sleath so your friend cant do it again though. simple enough
[06:46:14] <XXCoder> set repo priority to normal one very high and builddot very low
[06:46:20] <Loetmichel> jthornton: yes i have the stepconf file. thats what i used to rerun stepconf
[06:46:30] <XXCoder> so even if builddot has newer it wont install it
[06:46:34] <Loetmichel> sleath?
[06:46:36] <jthornton> just uncheck the buildbot repos
[06:46:46] <XXCoder> jthornton: that can easily be xhecked again
[06:46:58] <XXCoder> so altering repo priority is much harder to find and undo
[06:46:59] * jthornton goes back to solving the digole problem
[06:47:31] <Loetmichel> so i revert to 2.7 and then uncheck the master and the linuxcnc?
[06:47:42] <Loetmichel> or unchec the master and the 2.7 buildbot?
[06:48:21] <XXCoder> not sure jt knows more which which repos has which than I do. I think buildbot has 2.8 one but maybe im wrong
[06:48:26] <Loetmichel> ... and then i will call the coworker over into the storage room for a chewout
[06:48:48] <jthornton> http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org
[06:49:30] <jthornton> http://linuxcnc.org
[06:49:30] <XXCoder> https://askubuntu.com example
[06:51:55] <Loetmichel> jthornton: doesent really help
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[06:52:32] <Loetmichel> which one to stay checked? the linuxCNC.org or the buildbot 2.7?
[06:53:05] <jthornton> the safe one is linuxcnc.org
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[06:53:24] <jthornton> buldbot anything will be the latest and may have problems
[06:53:27] <Loetmichel> XXCoder: i have 4 repositories with buildbot... 2 with master and 2 with 2.7
[06:53:37] <Loetmichel> jthornton: thanks
[06:53:51] <Loetmichel> do i have to restart the maschine after forcing the downgrade?
[06:54:05] <Loetmichel> or does it work without?
[06:54:14] <jthornton> in Linux usually not
[06:57:31] <Loetmichel> yeah. works again with 2.7.14.39
[06:57:43] <Loetmichel> and the "ref all" functionality is back
[06:57:44] <Loetmichel> niiice
[06:57:47] <jthornton> yippie
[06:57:53] <XXCoder> awesome
[06:58:05] <jthornton> so you went with the buildbot 2.7 I see
[06:58:21] <Loetmichel> ... now to grind down the shaft of anoother 2mm TC 2-flute to be able to punge in 8++mm...
[06:58:24] <Loetmichel> plunge
[06:58:43] <Loetmichel> because the last one i ground flew away this morning :-(
[06:58:53] <jthornton> can you zip up your config and post it somewhere, I'd like to pass it on to Andy
[06:59:07] <Loetmichel> which files?
[06:59:27] <jthornton> all the files in your configuration directory
[06:59:48] <Loetmichel> moment
[06:59:51] <rmu> also, then you have a backup ;)
[06:59:56] <jthornton> linuxcnc/someDiretoryName/*.*
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[07:12:02] <Loetmichel> jthornton: sorry, lunch.. will gzip it after the break and upload it somewhere
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[08:11:02] <jthornton> holy crap batman I've cracked the code to write to the digole lcd on the i2c bus!
[08:12:36] <XXCoder> is it just single write to serial? lol
[08:13:06] <jthornton> i2c = smbus.SMBus(1)
[08:13:10] <jthornton> then
[08:13:25] <jthornton> i2c.write_block_data(addr, 0x00, [0x43, 0x4c])
[08:13:37] <jthornton> that clears the screen with the CL command
[08:14:08] <jthornton> this writes TEST to the screen i2c.write_block_data(addr, 0x00, [0x43, 0x4c, 0x54, 0x54, 0x54, 0x45, 0x53, 0x54])
[08:16:38] <XXCoder> not too bad
[08:17:50] <jthornton> easy once you crack the code lol but no examples exist on the web so it's try try try
[08:18:14] <XXCoder> I bet
[08:40:30] <XXCoder> Loetmichel: uploaded yet?
[08:42:25] * jthornton hits the shower to start his day
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[09:33:18] <gregcnc> bansky's painting must have been awfully heavy https://youtu.be
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[09:34:31] <Loetmichel> XXCoder/ jthornton: does that link work for you? -> http://www.cyrom.org
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[10:01:25] <JT-Shop> I passed the link on to Andy
[10:02:22] <Loetmichel> also: i noticed i had indeed not one but TWO backups :-)
[10:02:57] <Loetmichel> seems the upgrade/downgrade automatically makes a .old folder
[10:03:43] <JT-Shop> that is created by the upgrade script\
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[10:22:38] <CaptHindsight> Shredding the Girl and Balloon - The Director’s Cut , the knife blades are all 90 deg off, https://youtu.be
[10:24:38] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: @ 0:17 he's holding the hot part of the soldering iron :)
[10:24:58] <CaptHindsight> or is that a screw driver?
[10:26:32] <CaptHindsight> @ 0:12 it looks like the roller does the cutting
[10:29:53] <CaptHindsight> 0:08 knurled roller and cutting roller
[10:30:12] <syyl> the whole making off is like a mockup
[10:30:37] <syyl> 0:10 - that belt has seen better times
[10:30:46] <CaptHindsight> 0:09 why is the timing belt getting bunched up?
[10:30:53] <syyl> :D
[10:31:08] <syyl> because in 0:13 its a way heavier belt :D
[10:31:32] <CaptHindsight> so likely fabricated by an "artist"
[10:31:54] <CaptHindsight> should be on Hackaday next
[10:32:10] <syyl> set on fire
[10:32:13] <syyl> would be ok for me
[10:34:40] <CaptHindsight> "In rehearsals it worked every time" , well choose a better makerspace next time and avoid #reprap
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[10:35:17] <syyl> lol
[10:35:20] <Rab> Screencap for viral lulz: http://reboots.g-cipher.net
[10:35:53] <CaptHindsight> "coudah gotten 4 smoothieboards inside of that space"
[10:39:21] <CaptHindsight> Rab: found the source https://i.imgur.com
[10:40:43] <Rab> It's about time we started using replicants instead of chinese children.
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[12:19:37] <gregcnc> Yes I thought the blades were odd but it seems there are slitting wheels on the roller. I think we can assume there is some "art" in all of it as most people wouln't know how the slitting discs work
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[12:20:07] <CaptHindsight> Rab: Chinese children need to work. How else will they be able to grow up to become good consumers?
[12:20:52] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: maybe the blades are part of a trap?
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[12:21:45] <CaptHindsight> what we really need are robots and replicants that will become good consumers
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[12:22:12] <gregcnc> hmm isn't that what they are creating?
[12:22:50] <gregcnc> what intrigues me is 12 years or patience to pull this off or the seller was in on it
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[12:24:51] <Loetmichel> gregcnc: no way the lead acid batteries in there would hold for 12 years
[12:24:58] <Loetmichel> he HAD to be in on it
[12:26:58] <fragalot> Loetmichel: the weird part is that nobody noticed the trickle charger plugged into it all this time
[12:27:20] <CaptHindsight> is that what they are saying about how long the art was in storage or on display before it went to auction?
[12:29:55] <CaptHindsight> 10 years is a common lifetime
[12:30:28] <fragalot> CaptHindsight: with one of those cheap ebay remotes? I think not.
[12:30:41] <Loetmichel> fragalot: indeed ;)
[12:31:04] <CaptHindsight> 10 years is common for lead acid sealed batteries
[12:31:15] <CaptHindsight> did the remote use one of those?
[12:31:24] <CaptHindsight> I didn't read the article
[12:31:39] <fragalot> the youtube video shows one of those el cheapo garage door opener remotes
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[12:32:12] <CaptHindsight> the video was just put together for more fun
[12:32:12] <fragalot> and there is no way that the receiver would be able to be powered for over a decade using a typical battery pack
[12:32:44] <fragalot> (it's not impossible, but HIGHLY unlikely)
[12:32:53] <Rab> Consider that the shredder only made it half way through the job.
[12:32:55] <CaptHindsight> maybe the buyer will post internal pics someday
[12:33:08] <Rab> Unless that was by design.
[12:33:18] <fragalot> Rab: it stopped dead in it's tracks, rather than slow down
[12:33:20] <Loetmichel> it wasnt
[12:33:24] <Rab> Personally I think they're all in on it.
[12:33:29] <fragalot> which to me means that it was intentionally stopped
[12:33:32] <CaptHindsight> I'm glad that they are having fun with all of this
[12:33:37] <Loetmichel> as he said in the vide at the end: "it worked every time in the rehearsals"
[12:33:42] <fragalot> CaptHindsight: yup :-)
[12:33:55] <fragalot> it's a /GREAT/ marketing stab from banksy
[12:34:16] <Rab> And that Banksy has joined Shepard Fairey in the hall of tiresome hacks.
[12:34:40] <gregcnc> does he make money from any of this? I have no idea
[12:35:07] <CaptHindsight> it drives up the value of their work
[12:35:08] <fragalot> I believe he does, going through a representative
[12:35:10] <pink_vampire> https://youtu.be
[12:35:12] <pink_vampire> so funny
[12:35:17] <Rab> Perhaps hype and/or fame are the currency of choice.
[12:35:53] <CaptHindsight> Banksy might have started as a single artist but he has accomplices/assistants now
[12:36:08] <fragalot> pink_vampire: weird how he doesn't include himself as one of the tools
[12:36:57] <Rab> pink_vampire, halarious
[12:37:41] <Rab> pink_vampire, he doesn't say anything about keeping them oiled.
[12:38:16] <fragalot> Rab: he does mention hammering on them
[12:38:19] <fragalot> so there is that
[12:38:29] <pink_vampire> the part with the nail as so funny
[12:39:15] <pink_vampire> w*as
[12:39:24] <gregcnc> I have to keep my kids from watching the dreadful life hack videos so it doesn't rot their brains
[12:39:56] <fragalot> gregcnc: but safty is nombar wan prirorty
[12:40:04] <pink_vampire> LOL
[12:40:13] <Rab> It's not any worse than reading Steal This Book back in the day.
[12:40:19] <gregcnc> not even that, just stupider than stupid stuff on some of them
[12:40:28] <Rab> Or Anarchist Cookbook
[12:41:19] <fragalot> Rab: what about the <insert anything here>'s manifesto?
[12:42:11] <Rab> fragalot, sure.
[12:42:25] <gregcnc> everyone talked about anarchists cookbook, but nobody I knew actually had it
[12:42:52] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: I like the toothbrush in the cordless drill for cleaning the insides of pipe stubs
[12:43:14] <gregcnc> when internet came around I downloaded it and it was like use a lineman's phone to make free calls or dial this number to get a direct line to the prez
[12:43:49] <Rab> CaptHindsight, chucking random stuff in a drill seems like genius until it starts to whip.
[12:44:13] <CaptHindsight> then it's entertainment
[12:44:28] <Rab> Plastic spoon and whipping cream, here: http://reboots.g-cipher.net
[12:44:36] <gregcnc> mine is a toss up between knocking teeth out or scalping oneself with corn on the cob ina drill
[12:44:51] <CaptHindsight> blockhead
[12:45:17] <gregcnc> fake, it's not even on the highest speed
[12:46:09] <pink_vampire> is that a fly wheel?
[12:46:26] <gregcnc> probably a treadmill motor and they couldn't be bothered
[12:46:31] <Rab> CaptHindsight, that's my ex-girlfiend, be nice
[12:46:42] <Rab> gregcnc, exactly. ;)
[12:46:56] <Rab> I took it off later though.
[12:47:33] <gregcnc> DC? how much HP?
[12:47:37] <CaptHindsight> ketchup bottles and TNT, good to the last drop
[12:48:13] <Rab> gregcnc, DC, I think it claims 1HP on the label but it sure doesn't put out that much.
[12:48:51] <Rab> Maybe at 5000 RPM.
[12:48:52] <gregcnc> you have full voltage?
[12:49:08] <gregcnc> yes it would be at rated speed
[12:49:32] <Rab> I think rated is 90V, I've never actually measured the voltage but I'm using the controller that came with it.
[12:49:42] <gregcnc> i have one somehwere i got years aog some science & surplus
[12:49:55] <CaptHindsight> https://youtu.be they are not all silly
[12:49:59] <gregcnc> dang typing bad as ever
[12:50:06] <CaptHindsight> The V8 Rocking chair | Top Gear |
[12:50:14] <Rab> http://reboots.g-cipher.net
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[12:53:42] <gregcnc> got this in email; wireless estop? http://www.laird-controls.com
[12:55:42] <Rab> "It is also useful in Lock Out/Tag Out operations" shiver
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[12:56:39] <fragalot> there are standards for wireless estops
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[13:06:14] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: next week http://www.theassemblyshow.com
[13:06:43] <gregcnc> robots?
[13:06:56] <gregcnc> never done that one
[13:07:12] <CaptHindsight> yes, lots-a-bots
[13:08:08] <CaptHindsight> the most techie, more than manufacturing week
[13:09:30] <CaptHindsight> but smaller
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[13:09:53] <Loetmichel> gregcnc: i worked with a truck with loading crane that had a wireless remote... and an estop on said remote... sad thing is it only cuts the remote.
[13:10:06] <Loetmichel> not the hydraulic valve
[13:10:28] <CaptHindsight> well you don't want a loose remote flying around hurting people
[13:10:54] <Loetmichel> so if (which happened regularily) the amplifiers for the prop valves on the crane shorted out the estop did exactly nothing because then the valves are in end position
[13:11:01] <Loetmichel> and will stay there when power is cut
[13:11:51] <Loetmichel> Italians... "intelligent design" ;)
[13:12:17] <Loetmichel> ... and that crane could do 15 metric tons... ;)
[13:12:27] <Loetmichel> and had a reach of close to 20 meters
[13:12:54] <gloops> decent desktop router to cut ally only?
[13:13:00] <gloops> (not for me)
[13:13:08] <CaptHindsight> well they invented Romans and look at all they did for us
[13:13:51] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: but aside from the streets the aequaducts.(and so on) ... what have they ever done for us?
[13:14:13] <Rab> gloops, ShopBot?
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[13:14:57] <Rab> The Shapeoko class stuff is pretty terrible for Al, as one might expect.
[13:15:22] <gloops> hmm will have a look, budget is small i think
[13:15:26] <gloops> thanks
[13:15:42] <Loetmichel> gloops: the CNC 6040 stuff is useable with aluminium
[13:15:46] <Loetmichel> define decent
[13:16:14] <Rab> I completely glazed over the "desktop" part, not sure if ShopBot makes that. Loetmichel knows what's up.
[13:16:51] <Rab> And decent for 2D routing, or 3D contouring?
[13:17:14] <Loetmichel> 2.5d routing its pretty decent i would say
[13:17:31] <Loetmichel> https://www.youtube.com
[13:17:37] <Loetmichel> https://www.youtube.com
[13:17:46] <Loetmichel> i should get a better stand for it though ;)
[13:18:40] <Rab> They do make a desktop router but it's not a budget item: http://www.shopbottools.com
[13:19:13] <pink_vampire> Loetmichel: what is the recipe?
[13:19:23] <Loetmichel> recipe???
[13:20:16] <pink_vampire> recipe - feed/speed/doc.. etc
[13:20:35] <gregcnc> hmm not soup
[13:20:41] <gloops> he wants to make plastic injection molds from ally
[13:20:53] <gregcnc> good ones?
[13:21:18] <gloops> hmm, not nasa stuff, but decent, they look pretty simple
[13:21:56] <pink_vampire> https://i.imgur.com
[13:21:59] <gloops> norton blocked that page for some reason Rab
[13:22:04] <gloops> This is a known dangerous web page. It is highly recommended that you do NOT visit this page.
[13:22:06] <Loetmichel> pink_vampire: the latter vid is F1200 (mm/min), 24krpm, 0,15mm doc
[13:22:09] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: You are abusing your Z axis.
[13:22:22] <Loetmichel> with a 2mm two flute tungsten carbide aluminium mill bit
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[13:22:46] <Loetmichel> FinboySlick: not any more... look at the second vid... using cambam now, MUCH smoother ;)
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[13:23:17] <pink_vampire> that is te aluminum thickness?
[13:23:25] <pink_vampire> the*
[13:23:35] <gloops> https://www.ebay.co.uk how about that Loetmichel
[13:23:41] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: I think that the belt in that photo must have brokenm and the plastic has slid along the reinforcing wires.
[13:24:24] <pink_vampire> BRB
[13:24:29] <Loetmichel> gloops: lools good to me
[13:24:37] <Loetmichel> and the price is also useable
[13:24:44] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: I think that everything called “steel” melts at pretty much the same temperature
[13:24:45] <gloops> that would be ok for ally ?
[13:25:13] <Loetmichel> gloops: for 2.5D yes
[13:25:28] <Loetmichel> for 3d: you may need a bit more travel in Z
[13:26:18] <Loetmichel> pink_vampire: the sheet metal is 1,5mm thich in the second vid and 4mm in the first vid
[13:26:30] <Loetmichel> thick
[13:28:21] <Loetmichel> gloops: it even does sheet brass fine: https://www.youtube.com
[13:29:13] <gloops> what machine is that Loetmichel?
[13:29:19] <Loetmichel> a CNC 6040
[13:29:41] <gloops> similar thing to the link i posted?
[13:29:53] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: In the second video, you are abusing the rigidity of everything.
[13:30:18] <Loetmichel> FinboySlick: as i said: i should make a more rigid rolling desk for it ;)
[13:30:46] <Loetmichel> it starts accelerating the table instead of the gantry/head ;)
[13:30:54] <FinboySlick> Make a 1m tall box slightly larger than the router, pour concrete in it, sink the router 5cm into it.
[13:31:04] <Rab> gloops, injection molds? Ouch...I'd recommend a mill. Rigidity will directly impact the surface finish of the plastic products.
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[13:32:01] <Loetmichel> gloops: ups, i overlooked that. so he wants to mill out moulds? he can do that but i doubt it would be fast.. or pretty
[13:32:13] <gloops> Rab yeah id be inclined to go with a mill..but, people seem to be doing this with routers
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[13:32:24] <gloops> hmmm
[13:32:25] <Loetmichel> thats not a job for a router, its a job for a knee mill or similar
[13:33:12] <gregcnc> so what kind of molding machine will run these?
[13:33:33] <Loetmichel> it can be done on a router (provided your finsihed tool is lwer than 80mm even on a 6040) but it takes AAAGES to remove that much material
[13:34:33] <Loetmichel> FinboySlick: what i am abusing here? -> https://www.youtube.com
[13:34:40] <Loetmichel> (OSHA?) ;)
[13:35:30] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: not sure who decides but they list a few that melt maybe 100-200C lower than others
[13:36:48] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: human decency!
[13:36:52] <CaptHindsight> make molds on rickety router then micropolish
[13:37:03] <CaptHindsight> live with tolerances
[13:38:09] <Loetmichel> FinboySlick: why?
[13:38:23] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: Is 200C much a win when you are talking about 1600?
[13:38:26] <Loetmichel> if the machine has a hickup its my fingers alone that are in danger
[13:39:17] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: depends on how they come to the max temp rating on an electric kiln
[13:39:41] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: Now now, you can't follow up your question with 'why?'. That means I have to justify my claim.
[13:39:51] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: was checking to see if there was something i might be missing
[13:40:06] <Loetmichel> FinboySlick: indeed!
[13:40:08] <CaptHindsight> bbl
[13:40:45] <gregcnc> aren't machines made to be used?
[13:41:26] <fragalot> no
[13:41:30] <fragalot> they are made to be kept pristine
[13:41:53] <FinboySlick> Expected from a Schaublin owner.
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[13:42:36] <gregcnc> to me, pecking is time, but so many factors determine the outcome and the why
[13:43:15] <Xnke> what's happenin folks
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[13:44:53] <Xnke> anyone here running the 7i96 Mesa control card?
[13:45:28] <Xnke> I am working out how to best arrange what I will need it to do
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[13:46:02] <andypugh> I have other Mesa cards on machines, and there are similarities
[13:47:20] <Xnke> I am mostly wondering about the Ethernet pitfalls...will I need a dedicated Ethernet port, can it live on a two machine network etc
[13:49:01] <Xnke> like I run solidworks in the house, but the Linux CNC machine will be in the shop, and the Mesa card will be in the machine enclosure
[13:50:25] <fragalot> gloops: you can make molds on a haas GR510.. That's a router. basically.
[13:51:29] <gregcnc> you just need to get files to the Linuxcnc box
[13:52:09] <gloops> well the bloke has been quoted £500 a mold, he said its more economical to buy a machine and make his own, he isnt selling them
[13:52:33] <fragalot> depends on how many he makes
[13:52:40] <Xnke> right. I am unsure of if I need a sneakernet connection for that or if I can just run samba/Dropbox or something
[13:52:47] <gloops> i guess the 500 includes design/modelling ..which is no small thing
[13:52:59] <gregcnc> well, he should understand what it takes to make a 700$ mold
[13:53:09] <gloops> yes
[13:53:14] <methods_> live and learn
[13:53:15] <fragalot> gloops: I seriously doubt the 500 includes design
[13:53:36] <methods_> 500 for a mold is cheap
[13:54:09] <fragalot> it is
[13:54:11] <gloops> fragalot someone would have a go at it for that
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[13:54:13] <fragalot> last mold we bought was 12k
[13:54:35] <gregcnc> again what kind of plastic injection machine is this running on?
[13:55:13] <gloops> ask him, hes on facebook - CNC router tips
[13:55:25] <gregcnc> does he need a consultant?
[13:55:54] <gloops> ill pass your number on gregcnc
[13:56:04] <gregcnc> lol
[13:56:16] <fragalot> "this guy said he'd help free of charge, call him any time"
[13:56:29] <gloops> reverse the charges
[13:56:36] <Rab> This guy? http://www.cncroutertips.com
[13:57:05] <Rab> How legit are CNC Router Tips's CNC Router Tips if he needs this advice?
[13:57:16] <gloops> that looks like bill griggs
[13:57:27] <gloops> its someone on his facebook group
[13:57:31] <gregcnc> you know who bill griggs is?
[13:57:41] <gloops> yeah him in the photo
[13:57:53] <gregcnc> is he still doing RC airplanes?
[13:58:15] <gloops> no idea, he charges $250 an hour i know that
[13:58:42] <gregcnc> there you go 3 hours and the mold would be free
[13:59:05] <gregcnc> before any machine is even purchased
[13:59:40] <methods_> oh my the website is terribad
[14:00:12] <gloops> yes, so you know how to make a mold for injection, blowholes etc, thermal expansion who knows what, you can model it in solidworks, you got the CAM software right? and your machine will run it off in ...(how much time is left after all that?) 20 minutes
[14:00:31] <Rab> resolutely not allowing jawascript for ezpopups.io
[14:00:41] <gloops> + materials
[14:01:15] <fragalot> you vastly underestimate how long design for molds takes
[14:01:31] <fragalot> and spindle time for molds
[14:01:41] <gregcnc> we have no idea what the requirements are
[14:02:05] <gregcnc> if considering chinaco router, I'm not sure the client does either
[14:02:09] <gloops> im working on the 3 hour window
[14:03:52] <gloops> you can make a tenon on a 12x8 oak beam with a penknife
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[14:12:45] <fragalot> Rab: alternatively you can install a plugin they provide to ensure you never have to run their javascript again.
[14:13:21] <Rab> fragalot, what a relief!
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[14:56:08] <gloops> having problems CNC_Brian ?
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[15:33:42] <ChunkyPuffs> I have a person who's new to the idea of using LinuxCNC here in a makerspace. He finds it silly that people aren't using mach3, can LinuxCNC be used as a **direct** replacement for Mach3 yet?
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[15:35:14] <gloops> heh heh
[15:35:36] <gloops> mach3 is that still going then?
[15:36:57] <ChunkyPuffs> I looked up some stats, and apparently mach4 only has 4% market share now, reckon it'll catch up to linuxcnc?
[15:37:09] <ChunkyPuffs> either way, he finds it a bit odd that people would bother with linuxcnc
[15:37:23] <pink_vampire> ChunkyPuffs: just use Linux CNC if you need help, we can help you
[15:37:34] <ChunkyPuffs> He says there's no support.
[15:37:49] <ChunkyPuffs> Which is odd, since I'm talking to people such as yourselves who would help in a heartbeat haha.
[15:37:54] <gregcnc> are you building a machine?
[15:38:07] <gloops> theres the linuxcnc forum - very active
[15:38:12] <gloops> #here
[15:38:13] <ChunkyPuffs> he doesn't like forums
[15:38:29] <ChunkyPuffs> gregcnc, he has some random garbage router that he has no clue as to the specs of, and we need to figure out the specs
[15:38:36] <gloops> can he talk to the mach3 developers live?
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[15:38:50] <pink_vampire> ChunkyPuffs: linuxcnc is open source so the help come from the community
[15:39:06] <gloops> yes what pink_vampire said
[15:39:13] <Rab> ChunkyPuffs, the ethos of making vs. consuming seems opposed to commercial closed-source software. Is he agitating for site-wide licensed Windows as well?
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[15:39:13] <ChunkyPuffs> He can't, but he thinks, I think, presumably, because it's proprietary and has support that it must be better.
[15:39:29] <pink_vampire> and if you have some simple 3 axis machine, you can do the setup in almost no time
[15:39:43] <andypugh> Where is the support for Mach3 from?
[15:40:17] <andypugh> LinuxCNC has forum, IRC and mailing list. Talking to the developers directly. Not sure what extra Mach3 might offer over that?
[15:40:48] <andypugh> LinuxCNC can directly import a Mach XML config file so should be a drop-in replacement.
[15:41:00] <ChunkyPuffs> pink_vampire, His response is "yes, if you know what to put in the settings"
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[15:41:28] <ChunkyPuffs> I think he's saying that he has no idea about the specs, so can't do anything with the router because those specs are not known.
[15:41:38] <andypugh> You need to put stuff in the settings for Mch3
[15:41:39] <ChunkyPuffs> I know nothing about cnc routing myself, but I'm just showing how easy it is to get support
[15:41:44] <pink_vampire> andypugh: mach3 offer random crashes
[15:41:57] <syyl_> mach3 also offers eyecancer
[15:42:10] <gloops> heres a recent linuxcnc build https://www.youtube.com
[15:42:27] <pink_vampire> lets start with the basics, what machine is that, and how do you want to control it
[15:42:35] <andypugh> If you know the settings for Mach3 then they are the same for LinuxCNC. (and, as I said, if you have a settings file for Mach3 you can use that with LinuxCNC)
[15:42:52] <gregcnc> specs of the machine have no relation to the control IMO. but figuring mechanical workings of a basic router is not difficult
[15:43:08] <ChunkyPuffs> pink_vampire, It's a Chinese, generic machine with no manual, no knowledge of the specs, it has some "cnet" thing on the side of it
[15:43:12] <Rab> gloops, whoa, nice to see that guy's still active.
[15:43:58] <gloops> pentapod could be a challenge
[15:44:08] <pink_vampire> I mean it is an engraver / mill? stepper / servo? LPT/FPGA card?
[15:44:40] <andypugh> ChunkyPuffs: If it is using a USB cable and a driver at the Mach3 end then it _won’t_ work with LinuxCNC.
[15:44:55] <andypugh> If it uses a parallel port connection then it will.
[15:45:37] <Rab> ChunkyPuffs, does this makerspace follow a do-ocracy model or what? Let the guy install Mach3 and knock himself out.
[15:45:54] <ChunkyPuffs> Rab, No, he just has no idea what linuxcnc, opensource, linux, etc is
[15:46:17] <ChunkyPuffs> I'm introducing him, despite knowing nothing about CNCs, etc, and so this is my avenue into the knowledge, I want to help him set it up from scratch, hopefully you guys will help too.
[15:46:27] <andypugh> Yeah, we only care what other folk use to confirm the validity of our own choice. None of us make any money from extra userts.
[15:46:50] <ChunkyPuffs> andypugh, I don't know about that, yet.
[15:46:59] <pink_vampire> ChunkyPuffs: is there a tool changer?
[15:47:11] <andypugh> Many people are extremely happy with Mach3, and make good parts (the poor deluded fools)
[15:47:27] <Rab> ChunkyPuffs, got a pic or wiki entry for the CNC?
[15:47:40] <ChunkyPuffs> Rab, Not yet, will in the future when he brings it down
[15:47:53] <ChunkyPuffs> All we have right now is the controller that came with the board
[15:47:59] <Rab> ChunkyPuffs, oh, he's bringing the CNC?
[15:48:24] <ChunkyPuffs> at some point, but right now we just have the controller that came with the machine
[15:48:37] <Rab> And is it running Mach3 now?
[15:48:41] <pink_vampire> controller means?
[15:48:44] <ChunkyPuffs> We're starting off with very little here, but he's talking about this mach3 shit and it's urking me lol
[15:49:03] <ChunkyPuffs> the front says "mini-cnc controller"
[15:49:03] <pink_vampire> can you take few picturs of the hardware?
[15:49:24] <CaptHindsight> I'm available 24/7 for mach support, it's only $500 for the first 5 minutes after that it's $1/min until the 2nd hour, then the $500 applies again
[15:49:25] <pink_vampire> and it connect to the computer via?
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[15:49:41] <ChunkyPuffs> on the back there's a control output on the back that looks like a printer cable with its center hollowed out
[15:49:42] <gregcnc> https://www.ebay.com
[15:49:45] <ChunkyPuffs> ac input and usb output
[15:49:48] <ChunkyPuffs> usb type a
[15:50:01] <gloops> could be grbl
[15:50:31] <pink_vampire> it is a stepper or servo?
[15:50:38] <CaptHindsight> mach email support is only $499 per question or part
[15:50:46] <XXCoder> lol
[15:51:00] <gloops> quite a lot of people use mach 3 for usb
[15:51:06] <syyl_> sounds more like the "i dont want to do it"-rate ;)
[15:51:19] <CaptHindsight> mach support over IRC is the same rate as by phone
[15:51:35] <syyl_> thats like quoting parts you dont want to make 5x the real price
[15:51:38] <andypugh> OK, LinuxCNC _can’t_ connect to that “Mini CNC controller"
[15:51:40] <syyl_> (and still get the fckn order)
[15:51:42] <gloops> but then they ask a lot of questions like 'why did the cutter plunge straight through the job'
[15:51:44] <CaptHindsight> get your CC's ready
[15:52:04] <pink_vampire> ChunkyPuffs: ?
[15:52:17] <ChunkyPuffs> gregcnc, That's exactly the machine
[15:52:32] <ChunkyPuffs> pink_vampire, usb type a, check Greg's link
[15:52:37] <gregcnc> what luck, though many look similar
[15:52:38] <Rab> ChunkyPuffs, it's not entirely clear to me what's going on. But if this dude is donating the CNC stuff, and he uses and likes Mach3, and is prepared to use/support it in the makerspace, it's probably poor taste to fight that. People are going to come to him with questions or problems.
[15:52:51] <andypugh> That Centronics connector is _probably_ carrying actusl stepper motor currents. It’s hard to say from the pictures.
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[15:53:21] <ChunkyPuffs> Rab, It's not like that, the situation is that he wants to set up this garbage CNC from ebay that he happens to have
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[15:53:52] <CaptHindsight> ChunkyPuffs: what he said and find something else to do for fun, later if they have too many issues you can rub it in their faces like dogs in their turds!
[15:53:56] <ChunkyPuffs> his opinion on linuxcnc is neutral
[15:54:10] <MarcelineVQ> Making it linuxcnc won't make the machine magically better, in fact people might just blame linuxcnc for it being bad, people are weird after all
[15:54:11] <andypugh> I suspect that there is a smoothstepper clone lurking in the box.
[15:54:16] <ChunkyPuffs> he has no opinion, he's 49 and has never heard of open software
[15:54:26] <pink_vampire> ChunkyPuffs: this is the controller file:// ???
[15:54:30] <ChunkyPuffs> sn:y17051
[15:54:49] <ChunkyPuffs> that is a local file lmao
[15:54:52] <andypugh> ChunkyPuffs: Most of the LinuxCNC developers are around that age, including me :-)
[15:56:07] <CaptHindsight> pink_vampire: please post your IP address and PW for the backdoor
[15:56:16] <andypugh> ChunkyPuffs: At this point I would say that you should use Mach3 and get on with making parts.
[15:56:19] <Rab> pink_vampire, whoa, I can backspace to file:// and see all the files on your computer. Try it out!!
[15:56:35] <CaptHindsight> haha
[15:56:50] <pink_vampire> i have no idea why it is make it like that
[15:57:45] <andypugh> <furtle, rummage> Interesting images collection there Pinkvampire :-)
[15:57:48] <Rab> MarcelineVQ, very insightful; I've seen that happen.
[15:58:03] <Rab> (With other software)
[15:58:36] <pink_vampire> it is the second time it sent the url as c://
[15:59:14] <pink_vampire> i think it is a problem with my IRC client,
[15:59:21] <CaptHindsight> how many basketball can they fit in there? 8,9....
[15:59:30] <Rab> pink_vampire, where did you post the image?
[16:00:59] <Rab> ChunkyPuffs, let him know that Mach3 is shareware costing $175, and LinuxCNC is FREE. He should be able to understand that.
[16:01:02] <gloops> in windows explorer pink_vampire?
[16:01:08] <pink_vampire> I see the problem,
[16:01:55] <andypugh> pink_vampire: We all see the problem, it’s called Windows :-)
[16:02:05] <andypugh> But MacOS is even worse
[16:02:07] <pink_vampire> if you click copy image, instead copy image location, it just paste a local link. WHY?? i have no idea.
[16:02:37] <pink_vampire> andypugh: after you buy solidworks, you forced to use windows
[16:02:44] <gregcnc> in your browser?
[16:02:59] <pink_vampire> yeah
[16:03:27] <gregcnc> isn't that normal?
[16:03:39] <andypugh> On a Mac, if you right-click a link and select “copy link” then paste it you often just get the plain text of the linked words, not the link, if you paste into an email.
[16:03:40] <pink_vampire> no
[16:03:42] <gloops> upload them to paste pics or imagebb
[16:04:23] <Rab> pink_vampire, oh, because the image you're seeing is actually cached in your temporary internet files. If you copy image location, it should copy the web URL. If you copy image, it pulls the location of the cached file.
[16:05:11] <gregcnc> copy image doesn't paste anything from FF?
[16:05:48] <andypugh> pink_vampire: I run Autodesk Inventor in a VM, works OK.
[16:05:49] <pink_vampire> yeah it is a bug.
[16:05:56] <Rab> Maybe pink_vampire uses Microsoft Edge.
[16:06:16] <pink_vampire> andypugh: I can't it is soo slow
[16:07:03] <andypugh> Though Fusion running native is often easier (and, as you suggest, a lot smoother and snappier)
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[16:08:45] <pink_vampire> on other services it is just paste it as image , I have no idea why the irc client do it as local url. it is huge bug.
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[16:12:11] <ChunkyPuffs> Am back, it's makernight at the makerspace and it's a bit hectic
[16:12:29] <ChunkyPuffs> I know and am convincing him of the nice naature of free software
[16:12:39] <ChunkyPuffs> Rab, you don't need to convince me lol
[16:13:02] <Rab> ChunkyPuffs, simply offering tactice.
[16:13:09] <Rab> re tactics
[16:13:15] <Rab> er er
[16:13:53] <ChunkyPuffs> andypugh, So, you're saying that we're boned with that specific controller?
[16:14:03] <ChunkyPuffs> I don't mind experimenting with any possible controller, recommend one.
[16:14:44] <CaptHindsight> you can easily change from mach to LCNC down the road if there are too many problems
[16:14:58] <CaptHindsight> the big thing is wiring up the machine
[16:15:17] <andypugh> First thing to do is work out if the stepper drivers are in the base or in the box, ie which side of the Centronics cable the stepper drivers are on
[16:15:57] <andypugh> Well, the machine in question is nice that way. One USB cable and one Centronics cable.
[16:16:58] <andypugh> As there is no power supply to the machine base I assume that the stepper drivers are in the blue box.
[16:17:41] <andypugh> The machine probably comes with a pirated copy of Mach3. At this point I would say that switching to LinuxCNC is too much trouble for too little reward.
[16:17:51] <andypugh> I would do it, but I am a zealot :-)
[16:18:40] <CaptHindsight> what! And miss out on the sheer joy of being in this channel?
[16:19:07] <ChunkyPuffs> [ 8483.866608] usb 3-2: New USB device found, idVendor=a720, idProduct=f803, bcdDevice= 3.00
[16:19:08] <ChunkyPuffs> [ 8483.866612] usb 3-2: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=3
[16:19:08] <ChunkyPuffs> [ 8483.866614] usb 3-2: Product: RNR ECO MOTION 2.0
[16:19:08] <ChunkyPuffs> [ 8483.866616] usb 3-2: Manufacturer: RobotAndRobot.com
[16:19:08] <ChunkyPuffs> [ 8483.866618] usb 3-2: SerialNumber: 46CD9E1F732
[16:19:08] <ChunkyPuffs> [ 8483.868170] hid-generic 0003:A720:F803.0011: hiddev4,hidraw7: USB HID v1.10 Device [RobotAndRobot.com RNR ECO MOTION 2.0] on usb-0000:00:14.0-2/input0
[16:19:11] <ChunkyPuffs> Sorry about the spam
[16:19:16] <ChunkyPuffs> but that's what this board shows up as in linux
[16:19:44] <Rab> Robot & Robot is a creative agency based in New York City. We are a full-service studio creating strategy, design & production across all platforms. We specialize in brand identities, campaigns, social strategy & content creation, commercials, websites, apps, books, environments, and more.
[16:19:52] <ChunkyPuffs> I don't want to use Mach, stop telling me to use Mach lmao
[16:20:05] <ChunkyPuffs> I am not concerned with time, I want to simply get to grips with LinuxCNC
[16:20:05] <XXCoder> mach mach mach mach ;)
[16:20:31] <ChunkyPuffs> I have another board elsewhere that I'm going to get working with it "probotix or something"
[16:20:31] <XXCoder> might be wrong but I think it is worth it to figure out and use linuxcnc yeah
[16:21:19] <CaptHindsight> Rab: might be from the future, in 60 years Robot & Robot could be a machine controller galactic website on the GWW
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[16:22:13] <Rab> Looks like it's something called a STB4100 Mach3 USB Motion Card: https://www.buildyourcnc.com
[16:22:21] <ChunkyPuffs> I got a pic of the card
[16:22:22] <ChunkyPuffs> it's taken apart
[16:22:52] <Rab> Which is just a USB breakout board which talks to Mach3 over USB somehow.
[16:23:11] <pink_vampire> ChunkyPuffs: just get C10 board, LPT, and you done
[16:23:20] <Rab> You can replace it with this, which talks to LinuxCNC over a parallel port: https://www.ebay.com
[16:24:41] <CaptHindsight> got LPT port?
[16:24:43] <andypugh> To convert to LinuxCNC you would replace that with something like https://www.ebay.co.uk and use the parallel port. Or if you (very reasonably) think that the parallel port is an abomination, something Ethernet controlled from Mesa: http://store.mesanet.com
[16:25:06] <pink_vampire> ChunkyPuffs: I have that board https://cnc4pc.com
[16:25:56] <andypugh> I spent more on Mesa hardware for my lathe than thet entire CNC router + controller cost…
[16:25:57] <XXCoder> isnt ethernet not RT and parallel port is?
[16:26:03] <CaptHindsight> how much will I get for porting LCNC to work over USB poorly?
[16:26:15] <Rab> Mesa warez are obviously a superior solution, but a $120 card might be a lavish expenditure for a $400 machine.
[16:26:21] <andypugh> LinuxCNC + Preempt-RT + Ethernet is realtime
[16:26:41] <andypugh> Rab: Definitely
[16:27:17] <andypugh> And I doubt that engraver will do much rigid-tapping
[16:27:32] <XXCoder> interesting'
[16:29:40] <andypugh> XXCoder: 7i76E is becoming the go-to card for LinuxCNC stepper retrofits: http://store.mesanet.com
[16:30:05] <andypugh> (equivalent to 5i25 + 7i76 but easier cabling and better isolation)
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[16:30:24] <Rab> CaptHindsight, I guess Mach3 sends non-RT data over USB, and the controller executes the data deterministically. If you can figure out the protocol, it doesn't necessarily have to work poorly.
[16:31:08] <CaptHindsight> yah just has a delay of 100mS is all
[16:31:44] <CaptHindsight> don't expect any position updates of something goes offtrack for that amount of time
[16:31:49] <CaptHindsight> of/if
[16:32:20] <CaptHindsight> for open loop it's easy
[16:32:43] <Rab> It would probably make legions of eBay CNC users happy. But those precious development hours could also be devoted to 5-axis CAM or some other lofty goal.
[16:33:03] <pink_vampire> mesa card is super overkill
[16:34:19] <CaptHindsight> for open loop you can just send the whole path over USB and put LCNC to sleep
[16:34:57] <rmu> isochronous USB transfers should be available in preempt-rt and if that works good enough for HD audio it could probably also kind of work for CNC
[16:35:00] <pcw_mesa> Yeah for something simple like a router, a open loop buffered system like Mach really doesn't have many disadvantages and has the advantage of not needing a real time host
[16:36:46] <pcw_mesa> well even if you make USB work, it still has lousy noise immunity and suffers from loan enumeration delays when anything goes wrong
[16:37:00] <pcw_mesa> s/loan/long/
[16:37:41] <CaptHindsight> yes, with mach and USB I'd have issues with noise
[16:38:40] <CaptHindsight> it's fun to lose keyboard, mouse and machine control all at once
[16:39:58] <rmu> ethernet clearly is superior
[16:40:37] <CaptHindsight> https://www.ebay.com $170?!
[16:41:35] <CaptHindsight> I used to put power over Ethernet in the mid 90's
[16:43:10] <Rab> CaptHindsight, isn't that the usual price?
[16:43:28] <ChunkyPuffs> https://imgur.com
[16:43:33] <CaptHindsight> it's been a while since I looked, isn't USB 2.0 only good to 2m?
[16:43:41] <andypugh> It would be interesting to turn up on a Mach3 forum and say you had a working LinuxCNC system you were thinking of converting to Mach3. I wonder what they would say?
[16:44:08] <CaptHindsight> ChunkyPuffs: maybe, just seems high for what you get
[16:44:13] <ChunkyPuffs> TX14207
[16:45:32] <andypugh> Spiral cable wrap is something of a quality touch.
[16:46:54] <Rab> It's this: https://www.ebay.com
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[16:48:53] <ChunkyPuffs> Thanks Rab !
[16:49:23] <ChunkyPuffs> Any serial number/product code?
[16:50:32] <ChunkyPuffs> https://www.hobbytronics.co.za
[16:50:44] <Rab> ChunkyPuffs, very easy to swap it with a parallel port breakout board. But that would be required for LinuxCNC; the USB controller won't work.
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[16:51:33] <ChunkyPuffs> So I need to toss this
[16:51:46] <rmu> 4 inputs for limit switches etc... is a joke
[16:51:47] <ChunkyPuffs> toss this shitty controller, and replace it with a arduino of some sort to run linuxcnc?
[16:52:00] <Rab> uhh
[16:52:42] <Rab> LinuxCNC requires a computer...you could run something like GRBL on an Arduino I guess.
[16:53:51] <rmu> the board doesn't look that bad. you could probably run something like TinyG directly on that board if the STM is not locker. but that would probably involve some programming.
[16:54:02] <rmu> s/locker/locked/
[16:54:27] <Rab> I shan't offer an opinion on GRBL vs Mach3.
[16:54:33] <andypugh> ChunkyPuffs: Mach3 needs a PC, LinuxCNC needs a PC. We are talking about the stuff between the PC and the stepper drivers.
[16:54:45] <ChunkyPuffs> Right
[16:54:56] <ChunkyPuffs> This controller, right now, is incapable of speaking to linuxcnc though?
[16:55:01] <Rab> ChunkyPuffs, correct.
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[16:55:12] <ChunkyPuffs> So, how do I resolve that?
[16:55:13] <andypugh> (LinuxCNC can also run on Raspberry Pi and Beaglebone, but GUI performance is pretty poor)
[16:55:17] <ChunkyPuffs> Or replace it with something that is, arduino uno?
[16:55:33] <Rab> ChunkyPuffs, either use Mach3, or replace the USB board with a parallel port board.
[16:55:58] <andypugh> ChunkyPuffs: You would need to swap the USB interface card for a P-port breakout card, and then find a PC with a Parallel port to run LinuxCNC on.
[16:56:31] <andypugh> That’s the cheapest solution. There are more capable hardware solutions for rather more money.
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[16:57:39] <CaptHindsight> https://www.ebay.com
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[17:01:51] <CaptHindsight> before CNC https://imgur.com
[17:04:26] <Deejay> gn8
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[17:11:37] <gloops> should cnc pottery making https://www.youtube.com
[17:12:07] <andypugh> Throwing pots is too much fun to automate
[17:13:02] <andypugh> But a lot of the 3d printers can be configured to extrude clay, and I have seen some very inteesting things
[17:13:37] <gloops> hmm never thought of extruding clay
[17:13:49] <andypugh> https://all3dp.com
[17:14:42] <gloops> yep https://www.youtube.com
[17:15:34] <CaptHindsight> "they sped that video up!"
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[17:16:37] <gloops> probably going to be the future of construction, maybe not with clay but similar stuff
[17:17:04] <CaptHindsight> nah nanites and particle beam constructors
[17:17:12] <gloops> why have a bricklaying machine when you can just print the wall
[17:18:10] <CaptHindsight> best will be when you can just think of something and it will materialize...
[17:18:31] <andypugh> Well, I had a good chat with oine of our 3d printing experts at work about that. He reckoned that bricks were still the way to go, but you print large bricks in a factory that already contain all the openings, insulation gaps and ducts for the services.
[17:18:38] <gloops> or you think it has materialised
[17:18:45] <CaptHindsight> but they will charge tons of $$$ to remove whatever you imagined
[17:22:56] <CaptHindsight> not much happening new in housing construction
[17:23:06] <CaptHindsight> mostly just cheaper materials
[17:23:16] <gloops> suppose a problem with printing concrete or such, viscosity and drying time, needs to be soft enough to extrude, but then you have stability problems with something like a wall while its setting
[17:23:29] <gregcnc> print lego bricks, build legp stacking bot
[17:24:07] <gregcnc> I think ICF is pretty quick
[17:24:19] <gloops> double skin lego block with cavity
[17:24:48] <gregcnc> there are all sorts of air gapped brick already
[17:25:05] <CaptHindsight> there is little interest
[17:25:15] <gloops> yeah there are
[17:25:23] <CaptHindsight> nahhuh
[17:25:29] <gregcnc> not here
[17:25:35] <gregcnc> europe much more so
[17:25:48] <CaptHindsight> pre-fab
[17:26:53] <gregcnc> like lincoln log houses?
[17:27:04] <gloops> but to keep 100mm wall either side with say 60mm cavity - heavy block for humans to throw around
[17:27:57] <CaptHindsight> it's been done and redone, but there's little interest
[17:28:29] <gloops> plus the cavity will always be bridged where the 2 sides join
[17:31:19] <CaptHindsight> robot poured foundations, bamboo and aluminum framing and surfaces
[17:31:40] <CaptHindsight> stone roofs
[17:32:39] <Jin^eLD> anyone tried these? https://www.aliexpress.com look solid but I am somewhat confused by such a low price...
[17:33:44] <Jin^eLD> my beadroller is getting a VFD and I want to control forward/reverse using a foot pedal
[17:34:16] <gloops> wont need it when the ice age comes - no cement needed for ice walls
[17:34:47] <CaptHindsight> be prepared to replace the internal switch, the pivots and the spring
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[17:35:09] <Jin^eLD> so basically everything except the casing? :)
[17:35:41] <CaptHindsight> gloops: if YOU would stop voting for psychos maybe we could get somewhere :)
[17:36:11] <Jin^eLD> gloops: ice age may take a while, we'll probably get roasted first
[17:36:27] <CaptHindsight> under water first
[17:37:08] <Jin^eLD> oh right
[17:37:49] <Jin^eLD> allthough probably not so acute for my location, quite far away from seas and oceans
[17:38:07] <gloops> our minds will be safely uploaded to hard drives by then
[17:38:08] <CaptHindsight> future ocean front property :)
[17:40:11] <CaptHindsight> all restaurants will be Taco Bell
[17:40:26] <gregcnc> not starbucks?
[17:40:43] <CaptHindsight> didn't you see Demolition Man?
[17:41:18] <gregcnc> not in recent history
[17:41:52] <CaptHindsight> the 3 sea shells
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[17:43:08] <rmu> Jin^eLD: interesting, that foot switch is about 0.8kg mostly aluminium, here you would pay more for raw aluminium stock
[17:43:13] <gregcnc> oh sandra bullock
[17:43:47] <CaptHindsight> "you really matched his meat"
[17:43:55] <gregcnc> i guess i haven't seen it at all
[17:44:08] <CaptHindsight> some great lines
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[17:44:48] <Jin^eLD> rmu: I am sure its some aluminum powder based stuff, which is probably good enough for the use case, but yes, those switches cost *a lot* more around here, even used
[17:45:36] <andypugh> Jin^eLD: Presunably just a switch not a potentiometer?
[17:46:06] <Jin^eLD> andypugh: yes, just a switch, I had some thoughts on this and figured that I probably do not want to control the beadroller speed dynamically by foot
[17:46:17] <Jin^eLD> this is also how Lazzes beadrollers work
[17:46:35] <Jin^eLD> so will select the speed manually first and then just use the pedals to go forward/reverse
[17:46:54] <andypugh> TIG welders (and car drivers) control speed by foot with great siccess
[17:47:36] <Jin^eLD> andypugh: in a car you have a nice steady sitting position, you're not standing with a chunk of sheet metal
[17:47:52] <Jin^eLD> did not do TIG yet so can't tell how they do it :)
[17:48:21] <Jin^eLD> and I can probably mod the pedal if I really decide I need to control the speed by foot
[17:49:06] <andypugh> Suck-blow tube like some disabled people use?
[17:49:58] <Jin^eLD> not sure I know what that is?
[17:51:37] <andypugh> https://en.wikipedia.org
[17:52:35] <Jin^eLD> oh wow.. I think I'm fine with chosing the speed with a wheel knob first ;)
[17:53:01] <andypugh> Just seems like a potential way to do the control when your hands are full.
[17:54:11] <Jin^eLD> well, it may be a personal preference, I tried a beadroller that was controllable by a foot switch and found that it was less convenient, had to balance on one foot and make sure not to press the pedal too much
[17:54:43] <Jin^eLD> and in most cases I did not really need the speed change, I'm not really doing meter long roof parts or stuff like that
[17:55:42] <ChunkyPuffs> right, so maker night is over now
[17:56:01] <ChunkyPuffs> was very hectic so couldn't get a lot of information through, everyone was throwing their bits and pieces of knowledge in
[17:57:37] <CaptHindsight> STAINLESS STEEL ROLL-UP machine cover 14" x 24" $1400ea
[17:57:42] <CaptHindsight> think I'll pass
[17:59:37] <CaptHindsight> http://www.hennig-inc.com
[18:02:06] <Jin^eLD> heh
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[18:37:32] <JT-Shop> I bought a couple of hennig aprons for the 308 last year
[18:41:24] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop: off the shelf or custom?
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[18:46:25] <JT-Shop> custom size to replace the old ones
[18:46:31] <Jin^eLD> nite
[18:46:39] Jin^eLD is now known as Jin|away
[18:47:18] <CaptHindsight> not sure why the roll up covers are so much other than they either get that price or they really don't want to make them
[18:48:09] <SpeedEvil> Jin|away: mouth switch might work well, but has other issues.
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[18:48:37] <JT-Shop> I think the roll up mechanism is expensive, mine are just hanging type
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[19:40:14] <rene_dev_> https://imgur.com
[19:41:08] <methods_> so wrong
[19:41:18] <methods_> you're going to hell for that
[19:41:59] <methods_> the linux gods shall smite thee for this blasphemy
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[19:53:42] <CaptHindsight> sometime back around 1995 we used Winders with a real time patch for embedded
[19:54:17] <CaptHindsight> found it https://en.wikipedia.org(operating_system)
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[19:54:53] <CaptHindsight> latencies are under 10 microseconds
[19:55:31] <CaptHindsight> hardware dependent
[19:57:37] <CaptHindsight> was done by ex-Intel people
[19:57:45] <CaptHindsight> can't recall the name right now
[19:58:15] <rene_dev_> methods_ did you know that emc originally ran on windows nt?
[19:58:29] <CaptHindsight> http://files.iccmedia.com BS claim of down to 1uS (hardware dependent)
[19:58:34] <methods_> i had no idea
[19:58:51] <rene_dev_> http://linuxcnc.org
[19:59:45] <CaptHindsight> this was back in the i386 days
[19:59:47] <rene_dev_> I was bored with a windows machine, and played with wsl
[20:00:26] <rene_dev_> https://en.wikipedia.org
[20:02:05] <CaptHindsight> what! bored! and you didn't work on a new Linux desktop?
[20:05:03] <rene_dev_> my macbook broke, and now I happen to have a laptop that came with windows 10
[20:26:56] <andypugh> Still, a useful tool for testing and developing. I do a ton of work in a VM on my Mac, and that’s got shockingly unusable latency.
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[20:36:11] <rene_dev_> so do I
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[20:36:49] <rene_dev_> it gets even better when you give priority to the vm
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[21:54:17] <gregcnc> some Emco machines run Windows with realtime thing called SPOX
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