#linuxcnc | Logs for 2018-11-06
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[00:26:13] <jesseg> hey guys, what's your favorite holding mechanism for dial indicators? I've tried the very frustrating kind, and been very frustrated. Also seen the kind that is like a large ball chain with a cable down the middle that tightens it into a stiff shape
[00:26:25] <jesseg> but I'm not too sure those are all that reliable
[00:26:40] <Wolf__> noga imo
[00:27:27] <jesseg> now I'm seeing gooseneck ones like this: https://www.ebay.com
[00:28:11] <jesseg> Wolf__, so like the goose neck is the best if its made by noga?
[00:29:43] <Wolf__> https://www.ebay.com or https://www.ebay.com type, I have the top adjust right now, plan to get a base adjust type next
[00:31:13] <Wolf__> they come in diffrent sizes as well...
[00:37:21] <Wolf__> (other words warning, I just linked the first ones that popped up on ebay)
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[01:03:45] <jesseg> yeah fair enough
[01:04:34] <jesseg> hmm the adjuster. My current setup has that C-shaped flat spring with an adjuster gimmick but I never use the adjuster because I use it with a dial indicator with 1" of travel
[01:08:19] * roycroft loves his noga indicator holder, and plans on getting some more
[01:09:57] <roycroft> the adjuster on the indicator holder is generally more useful with test indicators, as they have such a small amount of travel
[01:11:29] <jesseg> yeah
[01:12:15] <roycroft> it's a lot easier to have the adjustor on the base
[01:12:26] <roycroft> especially with a 10ths indicator
[01:13:17] <roycroft> but sometimes you can't really set it up so that the plane of adjustment lines up right with the base adjustor
[01:13:26] <roycroft> in which case a top adjustor is necessary
[01:13:42] <roycroft> just be aware that a top adjuster is going to be rather fiddly
[01:15:12] <jesseg> why's that, roycroft ? because the whole thing jiggles while you're trying to adjust it?
[01:15:41] <Wolf__> the 10th will jump all over just from thinking about trying to get the needle on 0
[01:18:27] <roycroft> yes
[01:18:39] <roycroft> if you're careful you can touch the adjustor on the base without moving anything
[01:18:56] <roycroft> when your hand gets near the top adjuster the air movement will move the indicator a tenth or two
[01:19:12] <Wolf__> … http://a.co I think I need this
[01:19:16] <roycroft> when you touch it it moves a thousandth
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[01:29:55] <jesseg> Hmmm.. The noga's seem to have short arms, max about 10" reach
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[01:30:25] <jesseg> Found a cheap junk one with 7" arm segments (14" total reach)
[01:31:31] <jesseg> since I'm on a budget and I often find myself reaching way out with a dial indicator, I think I might try this: https://www.amazon.com
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[02:02:41] <miss0r> seen diverdude
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[03:11:42] <Deejay> moin
[03:19:33] * {HD} waves
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[04:20:02] <saldot> The servo I'm thinking of buying has a "in position" output. Would I get any advantages from connecting that and does LinuxCNC support it?
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[05:35:41] <XXCoder> interesting https://www.kickstarter.com
[05:35:50] <XXCoder> small board but 2x 4 core 64 bit cpus
[05:35:57] <XXCoder> wonder if it'd work as linuxcnc machine
[05:43:16] <jthornton> morning
[05:43:36] <XXCoder> jt check out my link. also, morning.
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[05:46:32] <jthornton> real ethernet port might work with the Mesa ethernet cards
[05:50:06] <jthornton> I need to find my windows xp disks and build that pc back up with acad and solidworks for down here
[05:50:41] <jthornton> speaking of xp here is the disk lol
[05:50:54] <XXCoder> maybe though the pinout might be workable for cheap drivers like tb6600s
[05:51:22] <XXCoder> expecially since if linuxcnc can directly run and very good latency on that board.
[05:51:44] <XXCoder> no ethernet is a bit of con on it
[05:52:15] <jthornton> I thought I read it has real ethernet
[05:52:59] <XXCoder> seems not it has 2 usb ports, one OTG usb, hdmi and bunch of pins
[05:55:00] <rmu> specs say it has ethernet
[05:55:51] <XXCoder> oh I see it
[05:56:09] <jthornton> next to the hdmi socket
[05:56:25] <XXCoder> ah! I thought one of connectors were hdmi but its shallow ethernet connector
[05:56:42] <XXCoder> so it is MESA compitable. assuming pretty good latency
[05:57:01] <XXCoder> I guess MESA depends on latency less but still need some of that
[05:57:10] <rmu> XXCoder: you can also drive MESA cards via SPI
[05:57:15] <jthornton> it's possibly Mesa compatible...
[05:57:34] * jthornton needs to figure that one out one day
[05:57:38] <XXCoder> I dont know if I wanna buy it just to play around with
[05:57:50] <XXCoder> since MESA is bit expensive just for toy
[05:59:00] <XXCoder> $35 if wanna everything, max 1 gb ram, 8 gb emmc, 2.5a power, hdmi cable
[05:59:18] <XXCoder> $15 if just board
[06:03:05] <jthornton> rained like hell yesterday all the way home today sunny and I'll be inside a plant... figures
[06:03:30] <XXCoder> lol. today it was light cloudy, siddenly got dark and clear :P
[06:10:34] <jthornton> https://www.youtube.com that's the planer I came home with and it's still in my van
[06:10:58] <XXCoder> gholy crap
[06:11:01] <XXCoder> video is so bad
[06:11:17] <jthornton> looking for a better one
[06:12:29] <jthornton> the planer is very heavy lol
[06:12:39] <XXCoder> looks fancy
[06:12:41] <XXCoder> rollers etc
[06:13:54] <jthornton> https://semo.craigslist.org that one was 20 miles from the house wonder why I passed on it
[06:14:23] <Tom_L> came with the collector?
[06:14:39] <jthornton> no, that was extra
[06:17:27] <jthornton> the planer was used for an addition to a house for stair treads etc so very little usage
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[06:25:08] <XXCoder> jthornton: https://www.kickstarter.com now thats closer to cnc machine one
[06:25:10] <jthornton> nice it has knife jack screws to adjust the height of them
[06:29:45] <jthornton> pretty expensive for a SBC
[06:30:35] <XXCoder> its just overpriced for me lol
[06:30:41] <XXCoder> only 512 mb ram also
[06:30:56] <XXCoder> as well as get earlier link one as it has way better stats
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[07:16:26] <XXCoder> night all
[07:16:33] <jthornton> night
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[07:48:28] <selroc> hi pink_vampire,
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[11:12:00] <Jin^eLD> hmm, is a 3kw vfd good enough for a 3kw motor, or should the vfd always have some reserve and be slightly overdimensioned?
[11:13:09] <Roguish> generally you do not need to oversize, unless there's a really good reason to. like runnning a 3 phase on single phase.....
[11:14:29] <Jin^eLD> hmm no, 3 phase motor, 3 phase vfd, they seem to match well, was just thinking if it would over head or whatever if really used on the limit of its capacity
[11:15:52] <Jin^eLD> so I understand it's no problem as long as the motor is within the vfd spec no matter of its right on the edge or not, thank you! :)
[11:16:59] <gregcnc> VFD generally have current limiting and other protection as well
[11:25:40] <Jin^eLD> well, thts where my, probably wrong thingking, was also coming from - if its operating "on the edge", if then would consider some short spikes to be "bad" or whatever and shut everything off... I am no electrician so if what I am saying sounds like nonesense, it probably is :)
[11:26:56] <Jin^eLD> I usually tend to severely overdimension things in areas where I do not have enough knowledge... :>
[11:27:29] <skunkworks> we have been running a 5hp vfd on a 5hp motor for 15+ years
[11:29:17] <Jin^eLD> cool, actually, as all modern things, would not have expected a vfd last that long
[11:29:41] <gregcnc> they can typically take 100% over current for a short while
[11:29:43] <Jin^eLD> but that means I can use mine, I justa accidentally happened to have one that matches my lathe motor
[11:30:05] <gregcnc> and typically you just aren't running anywhere near full current
[11:31:13] <skunkworks> right
[11:33:35] <Jin^eLD> thanks again guys, this help is much appreciated
[11:33:48] <pcw_home> Not sure about VFDs but oversizing other motor drives is usually not good since your (already bad/noisy) current measurement will be worse since you are only using a portion of it range
[11:34:55] <Jin^eLD> oh, so oversizing is actually bad in this case... good to know
[11:37:13] <Jin^eLD> originally I did not want to use one for the lathe, we started debugging a non functioning electrical brake which has a weird setup; first we found that the selenic rectifier burned down, and I found that a replacement came together with the lathe
[11:37:46] <Jin^eLD> put that in, found out that the relay that was supposed to disable the brake after max 2.5s was broken (which is probably the reason why the first one burned)
[11:38:16] <Jin^eLD> relay is end of life ancient stuff, called the manufacturer, turned out its not just a relay but a motor protection unit with a time relay
[11:38:45] <Jin^eLD> a used VFD is not that much more expensive
[11:38:53] <Jin^eLD> and I'd get soft-start as a bonus in addition
[11:39:25] <Jin^eLD> in the end turned out I even have such a VFD already (for another project)
[11:42:54] <gregcnc> seems like grossly oversize VFD may not allow settings/parameters low enough to protect a motor
[11:45:32] <Jin^eLD> hmm, it was oversized for the beadroller which only has 1.1kW, and also now I don't see a suitable used offer, the ones with less kW are all 220v
[11:46:34] <gregcnc> 400V?
[11:46:57] <roycroft> there are a lot of anecdotes about folks burning up cheap chinese vfds when using single phase input, and it's fairly common practice to upsize them by one "level", i.e. if you have a 2.2kw load, use a 3kw vfd
[11:48:16] <Jin^eLD> gregcnc: the beadroller motor for which I originally bought the 3kw vfd has 1.1kw and is rated for 380v, and I do not see any used offers for 380v vfds below 3kw right now, below that they are for 220v it seems, but I am only looking at used Lenze
[11:48:30] <Jin^eLD> because I happen to have a control keypad for it where I could program the parameters
[11:48:31] <roycroft> i've never seen a recommendation to grossly oversize them - i should imagine that most intelligent folks would only do that if they have a much larger one laying around
[11:50:35] <gregcnc> what is your mains voltage and the motor voltage?
[11:50:52] <Jin^eLD> gregcnc: mains 380v, motor 380v
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[11:51:38] <Jin^eLD> and the vfd I have is a Lenze 8200 vector, 400/500V 3kw
[11:53:25] <sync> should be fine
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[11:53:41] <gregcnc> those aren't cheap and they are out of production now
[11:53:52] <Jin^eLD> under 200eur
[11:54:06] <Jin^eLD> more around 180
[11:54:25] <gregcnc> maybe the one i was looking for was not common, there is one in my lathe
[11:54:51] <Jin^eLD> and I'm talking about used ones of course
[11:56:08] <Jin^eLD> if I had to replace the motor protector/circuit breaker and the time relay module I'd be at around 80eur and that only to get this weirdo selenic rectifier based brake system going
[11:56:48] <Jin^eLD> investing another 100 does not sound so bad for getting soft start and being able to throw out some old components
[11:56:57] <Jin^eLD> at least thats my thinking :)
[12:06:00] <{HD}> What improves latency the most? Ram, cpu, gpu?
[12:08:23] <pcw_home> Disabling power management...
[12:08:35] <pcw_home> larger cache
[12:09:59] <{HD}> Well that sounds easy enough
[12:10:07] <pcw_home> well behaved drivers
[12:10:57] <{HD}> pcw_home: and by power management you mean bios settings right?
[12:11:08] <{HD}> How do I increase the cache size?
[12:11:43] <gloops> theres a list of old PCs and their measured latency on the linuxcnc website
[12:12:02] <pcw_home> yes BIOS setting, cache size is CPU dependent
[12:12:13] <gloops> surprising what you think would be good sometimes isnt, and vice versa
[12:17:20] <{HD}> My max base jitter shot up to 18k when I switched gpu’s. I was under 10k
[12:36:40] <{HD}> gloops: I got the vfd dialed in last night.
[12:38:23] <gloops> excellent, always good when that bits over and the vfd isnt smoked
[12:40:31] <{HD}> Whats the slowest you can run a HF spindle? Obviously at slower speeda your sacrificing torque, right?
[12:44:47] <gregcnc> I think most have you set up for 6 or 8kRPM minimum
[12:45:14] <{HD}> Woowee!
[12:45:21] <gregcnc> you give up power, but no torque below rated speed, assuming the asynchronous motor is adequately cooled
[12:46:19] <{HD}> I have a great cooler system with an old dehumidifier radiator. Guess I should read about it more.
[12:46:40] <gregcnc> high speed spindle do seem to give up torque below 100Hz, which is why they want 100Hz min
[12:47:59] <gregcnc> http://www.jian-ken.com
[12:50:16] <gregcnc> https://www.cnczone.com
[12:56:42] <{HD}> Nice that second link seems helpful.
[12:56:57] <{HD}> I will tweak some things and see what happens.
[12:57:23] <gregcnc> I think mactec had another bigger thread about the settings for these spindles
[12:57:29] <{HD}> I have a 4kw spindle here not hooked up to anything but it weighs a ton.
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[14:01:55] <CaptHindsight> Don't be a tool, print one. https://www.youtube.com
[14:04:01] <gregcnc> 1540Lb in <44hrs
[14:06:31] <gregcnc> is it a mold for composite part?
[14:07:11] <CaptHindsight> who knows, ABS Carbon fiber reinforced
[14:07:51] <CaptHindsight> The tool was 3D printed as a single piece from 20% carbon fiber reinforced ABS using the Vertical Layer Print system.
[14:07:51] <gloops> cant see 4kw being necessary for wood really
[14:08:20] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org
[14:10:48] <gregcnc> seems like composites tooling is what they are doing
[14:12:11] <CaptHindsight> I wonder if they sold that because Boeing already knew about them or if some manager found them by searching for "Large scale additive machines"?
[14:12:40] <CaptHindsight> or Large Scale Additive Manufacturing (LSAM ®)
[14:12:47] <gregcnc> they have aerospace shows on their calender
[14:13:22] <CaptHindsight> i wonder if BSAM has been registered yet?
[14:13:31] <CaptHindsight> BS-AM
[14:13:52] <CaptHindsight> B is for big not bull
[14:14:18] <gregcnc> something said they have 19 patents in the works
[14:14:44] <CaptHindsight> yeah pretty sad what our patent system has become
[14:15:18] <CaptHindsight> can't patent 5-axis but you can patent 5-axis with ABS and 20% CF for tooling
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[14:17:02] <fragalot> Hi
[14:18:20] <CaptHindsight> malware spam has gotten worse, now I'm getting bad attachments from real companies addresses
[14:18:59] <CaptHindsight> just with poorly worded and vague statements
[14:19:41] <CaptHindsight> "Please see order attached for said items and pricing quote"
[14:19:50] <skunkworks> yah - we have emails that have exact name of people that work here. Here is that invoice you are looking for...
[14:20:38] <fragalot> CaptHindsight: yeah, a common one we get is our CEO asking us to "spot him some money"
[14:20:49] <CaptHindsight> haha
[14:21:41] <skunkworks> we have gotten a few of them too
[14:21:45] <CaptHindsight> CEO was trained on the streets and in the 70's
[14:21:48] <skunkworks> right to accounts payable..
[14:22:06] <fragalot> yup
[14:22:13] <gregcnc> even church members are getting email that looks like it's from clergy asking for prepaid giftcards
[14:22:21] <fragalot> some of them are very well written too
[14:22:59] <CaptHindsight> have you seen the one where your computer has been hacked and you need to send bitcoin?
[14:23:03] * fragalot is about to watch "batman ninja"
[14:23:08] <fragalot> I have VERY high hopes for this, lol
[14:23:27] <CaptHindsight> the return address is your email address but the reverse DNS is some dial up in dirkadirkastan
[14:24:12] <fragalot> lol
[14:25:35] <skunkworks> CaptHindsight: yes - and they have one of your passwords (legit)
[14:25:54] <fragalot> yup
[14:26:06] <fragalot> often they put it in the email subject to grab your attention
[14:26:17] <skunkworks> I have been getting about 1 a day with a very old password
[14:26:27] <skunkworks> they have video of me too...
[14:26:35] <fragalot> nice
[14:26:36] <skunkworks> because they took over my camera
[14:26:45] <skunkworks> yeh - pretty cool :)
[14:27:04] <gloops> i paid £20 to get released from a virus a few years ago
[14:27:08] <fragalot> worst i've had is DNS spoofs on sites like ebay & paypal
[14:27:13] <gloops> i didnt think £20 was bad really
[14:27:24] <fragalot> the virus is /completely/ dormant, except for the DNS of those 2 sites pointing somewhere else
[14:27:44] <gloops> the bloke on the phone said when the virus went to the next phase it would be £80
[14:30:00] <fragalot> I just laugh & restore a backup
[14:31:13] <gloops> only thing windows did was go straight to their webpage, tried for an hour or so - nothing, so i just rang the number lol, worth 20 not to faff about, although a gamble - but they were honest crooks
[14:35:55] <CaptHindsight> skunkworks: they had a password to a website used for ordering some parts
[14:36:29] <CaptHindsight> most likely they had hacked that website and had everyones login and passwords
[14:36:49] <fragalot> nah you just purchase the data from someone else that has
[14:37:00] <fragalot> or download the published ones after a certain time
[14:37:47] <CaptHindsight> what else does one do with hacked websites
[14:38:07] <skunkworks> yes - emails and passwords are out there for hacked sites
[14:45:16] <{HD}> So...doing latency tests from a liveUSB install doesn’t appear to be a good idea.
[14:46:45] <CaptHindsight> {HD}: why not?
[14:46:49] <CaptHindsight> should be fine
[14:48:59] <CaptHindsight> how much RAM is in the system?
[14:49:55] <FinboySlick> They got most of those passwords from the LinkedIn hack as far as I know.
[14:50:37] <FinboySlick> They had stored their hashes as MD5 or something relatively trivial (nowadays) to bruteforce.
[14:50:44] <CaptHindsight> I emailed myself back, told me to fuck off
[15:03:37] <{HD}> CaptHindsight: because these latency numbers were gigantic! Off the live usb. That machine had 32g of ram.
[15:04:11] <{HD}> It wasn’t a machine I planned on using for lcnc just wanted to see how it would stack up
[15:15:17] <{HD}> So new computers suck for latency.
[15:16:28] <gloops> i doubt it will be a problem
[15:19:02] <gregcnc> hell of a workbench https://chicago.craigslist.org
[15:20:45] <gloops> yeah that would be good to have
[15:21:32] <XXCoder> looks like might be former part of mill table lol
[15:23:31] <{HD}> Changing cpu settings in bios didn’t seem to matter much.
[15:24:34] <XXCoder> turned off power management stuff?
[15:24:41] <XXCoder> those have big hit on latency
[15:24:54] <CaptHindsight> {HD}: live USB install is a common way to check for suitable hardware
[15:25:18] <{HD}> Hi didn’t have much power management stuff in bios. I had “speed step“ and “virtualization“.
[15:25:40] <{HD}> CaptHindsight: I guess this computer just completely sucks! That is for real time stuff.
[15:25:52] <CaptHindsight> {HD}: I'd be interested to see hardware that runs poorly on the Live install and great on the actual install
[15:26:05] <CaptHindsight> yes, many BIOSes are broken
[15:26:30] <{HD}> I am currently testing in old Dell XPS 410
[15:26:36] <rene_dev_> anyone here using reverse run?
[15:26:52] <CaptHindsight> or the vendor decides to leave out BIOS features
[15:27:11] <{HD}> Can you get after market bios?
[15:27:17] <CaptHindsight> I have never personally found a good real time system by Dell
[15:27:40] <CaptHindsight> {HD}: just coreboot (linuxbios)
[15:27:59] <{HD}> I hit 20k with 10 glxgears open and iceweasle
[15:28:30] <XXCoder> only 20k? isnt that well within good range
[15:28:50] <XXCoder> 100k and above being too high?
[15:28:52] <CaptHindsight> yeah 20,000 nSec is great
[15:29:34] <CaptHindsight> depends, software stepping, how fast you need to step, fpga, ethernet etc etc
[15:30:50] <CaptHindsight> {HD}: what numbers were you shooting for?
[15:31:28] <{HD}> CaptHindsight: I only have a couple old computers that I can devote to the C&C machine. So, I’m shooting for the one that provides the lowest latency.
[15:31:39] <{HD}> Cnc*
[15:31:44] <{HD}> Stupid airi
[15:31:48] <{HD}> Siri*
[15:32:27] <{HD}> I have 8 old desktops in the basement and I am just testing them one by one.
[15:32:34] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: i wonder what machine they took the table off
[15:33:07] <Loetmichel> {HD}: usually any machine with at least a core2 duo should be sufficient
[15:33:10] <{HD}> How much does gpu effect the latency because I can swap those around too.
[15:33:15] <gregcnc> old horizontal mills had long tables like that
[15:33:25] <Loetmichel> more ram helps and not "lenovo" or "notebook" on it helps more ;)
[15:33:56] <CaptHindsight> {HD}: how fast do you want your rapids to go? start from there and work back on the numbers
[15:34:04] <Loetmichel> {HD}: GPU helps if the internal graphics of the board is hogging interrups
[15:34:11] <Loetmichel> otherwise its not needed
[15:35:06] <{HD}> I don’t think any of these machines have an on motherboard graphics.
[15:36:12] <CaptHindsight> how old are these systems? P4? Core2? 386sx?
[15:37:47] <{HD}> according to lscpu this one is an i686.
[15:38:47] <{HD}> Wow, for some reason I am only hitting 11k on this machine now.
[15:38:58] <{HD}> I wonder what happened?
[15:40:03] <CaptHindsight> for some reason playing a youtube in firefox always gave us the biggest bump when testing for latency
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[15:42:12] <CaptHindsight> {HD}: AMD?
[15:43:36] <XXCoder> thats why I always play almost full screen HD video when latency testing
[15:44:14] <CaptHindsight> flash videos were the worst
[15:44:25] <CaptHindsight> and cost the most latency :)
[15:44:33] <{HD}> CaptHindsight: all intels
[15:45:22] <{HD}> But who is going to be watching a video and milling? This is a dedicated machine it not like I will be checking emails on it.
[15:45:26] <Loetmichel> {HD}: did you mean because the CPUs had the GPU integrated or did you mean beacause they all had some Video card?
[15:45:49] <CaptHindsight> BIOS changes often require a cold hard boot after (power down, unplugged for >10 seconds)
[15:46:13] <Loetmichel> {HD}: you would be surprised... i had my machine running a part while encoding the webcam for streaming AND doing VNC server...
[15:46:25] <Loetmichel> quite easily i may add
[15:46:50] <CaptHindsight> QC for BIOS testing is typically by observation
[15:47:12] <Loetmichel> https://www.youtube.com <- i was surprised how smooth that ran on a core2 duo with only 2,8ghz
[15:47:19] <CaptHindsight> "seems to work and nobody has complained" PASS
[15:48:15] <Loetmichel> first part is the windows machine in my office at work
[15:48:36] <Loetmichel> second part the actual machine in the workshop two doors down ;)
[15:50:13] <CaptHindsight> what does Guaranteed Delivery: (Some date), mean on ebay?
[15:51:05] <CaptHindsight> an email says by Wednesday (tomorrow) the add said Thursday, and UPS tracking shows Friday?
[15:51:38] <CaptHindsight> oh and the email also states : You can always let us know if your item is late
[15:51:52] <CaptHindsight> so what
[15:52:07] <CaptHindsight> it's late, get the time machine out?
[15:52:22] <CaptHindsight> refund my free shipping?
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[15:57:40] <Loetmichel> hmpf... ARE YOU SERIOUS YOUTUBE? copyright claims for THAT? (its a barely audible backgroud radio song...)
[15:58:03] <Loetmichel> lets see if youtube can remove the song without destroying the vid.
[15:58:10] <Loetmichel> <- pissed now...
[15:58:22] <gregcnc> no audio in that case
[16:01:29] <Loetmichel> gregcnc: that would destroy the effect of the serene office and the microphone overwhemling noise in the workshop
[16:01:59] <Loetmichel> video is above. and 4 years old
[16:02:01] <gregcnc> i've seen videos with copyright claim and no audio
[16:02:17] <Loetmichel> first time i noticed that its tagged.
[16:03:13] <Loetmichel> they specifically tagged it for using "sunshine of my life" from UMG
[16:03:51] <XXCoder> it would be ironic as hell if I ever get warned or blocked due to having some song in background
[16:04:11] <CaptHindsight> I program my cnc's to only play out of copyright music
[16:05:07] <CaptHindsight> wow 104,910 views LinuxCNC on Raspberry Pi https://www.youtube.com
[16:05:09] <Loetmichel> XXCoder: why would that be ironic?
[16:05:23] <XXCoder> I dont add any music because im deaf.
[16:06:31] <Loetmichel> ah, i see
[16:07:04] <CaptHindsight> I play Jazz to keep the kids away from my videos
[16:07:16] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: nice idea
[16:07:23] <Loetmichel> but that doesent help either
[16:07:24] <{HD}> How much does random effect latency? I did put two additional sticks and this particular machine. Maybe I just require that last re-boot for them to kick in.
[16:07:38] <{HD}> S/random/ram
[16:07:55] <XXCoder> less disk thrashing means cpu is less busy
[16:08:08] <Loetmichel> once got tagged for using "blue danube" from some polih orchestra... it was the ingame melody played by the docking comouter in a space game.
[16:08:20] <Loetmichel> i was pissed as hell that time
[16:08:37] <CaptHindsight> {HD}: also depends on the version of RTAI
[16:08:58] <{HD}> Whatever is default with 2.7
[16:09:18] <Loetmichel> not only is the blue danube copyright free by now ( so only certain interpretations could be copyrighted) its also ingame music that only the dev has rights to, not me or some orchestra
[16:10:29] <{HD}> CaptHindsight: I guess where a lot of my confusion comes in is how the older hardware is getting better scores.
[16:12:52] <Loetmichel> {HD}: depends. if the newer hardware has extensive power saving options it may very well be that it has worse scores
[16:13:23] <Loetmichel> pwersaving interrups are one of the main reasons the jutter goes up
[16:13:26] <Loetmichel> jitter
[16:14:01] <XXCoder> from what I recall and understand, #1 is powersaving options, and #2 reason is embedded video if it has
[16:14:20] <{HD}> Loetmichel: hum. Haven’t checked but the bios on this machine but it was a huge latency. Has i7-950 in it.
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[16:16:36] <CaptHindsight> integrated graphics haven't been an issue for nearly 10 years
[16:16:45] <Loetmichel> {HD}: hmm. never checked mine here. (i have an i7-920 in my main PC)
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[16:17:28] <CaptHindsight> power management (speed stepping, sleep etc) is #1
[16:18:27] <CaptHindsight> you want the cpu to run at a consistent clock rate no matter what it is doing, it should not do you the "favor" of lower the clock speed to save you some power
[16:18:30] <Loetmichel> yeah, on the i7 i would suggesst to disable any speedstepping and stuff
[16:18:58] <CaptHindsight> disable speed stepping on ANY cpu
[16:19:27] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: the old cpus didnt have that ability
[16:19:38] <Loetmichel> that what i meant
[16:20:05] <{HD}> I wonder If I can hack coreboot onto these old dells.
[16:33:48] <{HD}> Well gotta go vote. Back to this stuff later.
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[16:59:53] <Deejay> gn8
[17:00:47] -!- Deejay has quit [Quit: bye]
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[17:07:44] <CaptHindsight> early voting, absentee voting, different cities, counties, states, how many times can you vote? It get tiring after a while
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[17:22:42] <gregcnc> everyone wants you to vote, even the guy at Adams reminded me
[17:25:03] <{HD}> Whats Adams?
[17:25:18] <gregcnc> local place Capt knows
[17:25:45] <{HD}> Vote early vote often
[17:26:32] <{HD}> If one were to buy brand new hardware for the absolute best linuxcnc performance what is the recommended build?
[17:32:11] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: yeah he tends to make political comments
[17:38:24] <CaptHindsight> <sarcasm> i find it very unfortunate that we really can't come up with a secure, fast, private and transparent voting system. </sarcasm>
[17:39:18] <CaptHindsight> opps plus clear and easy to use
[17:40:05] <Tom_L> {HD} mesa cards and servo drives
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[17:41:29] <{HD}> Tom_L: I was just browsing mesanet
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[17:42:08] <{HD}> Is there a recommended mfg for servo drives?
[17:42:09] <Tom_L> talk to JT about it
[17:42:20] <Roguish> {HD} and purchase good, new computer hardware to run the whole thing. don't drag the old worn out XT out of the garbage.
[17:42:21] <Tom_L> i dunno, i run steppers
[17:43:09] <Tom_L> things tend to be leaning toward preempt-rt anymore so i'd get a decent more modern PC
[17:44:06] <Tom_L> you can however get decent results from steppers
[17:44:20] <{HD}> Good to know. I am surprisingly satisfied with the latency of this current hardware so, when its on the way out I will be sure to upgrade.
[17:44:34] <{HD}> I am running steppers now
[17:45:01] <Tom_L> i'm running a 7i90 with gecko 203v on my steppers iirc
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[17:47:10] <CaptHindsight> {HD}: drives you can tune and get warranty service for
[17:48:29] <CaptHindsight> {HD}: open source option https://github.com
[17:48:52] <Tom_L> do those come built?
[17:49:23] <CaptHindsight> somebody was selling them
[17:49:49] <Tom_L> i thought he was
[17:50:04] <Tom_L> but i'm not sure
[17:50:51] <CaptHindsight> https://github.com
[17:51:14] <CaptHindsight> pics at the bottom of the page
[17:54:22] <{HD}> Looks neat. I like purp pcbs
[18:02:11] <CaptHindsight> rene_dev_: was there some hard to find part for STMBL so it's going through some new rev?
[18:11:55] <rene_dev_> CaptHindsight yes
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[19:11:24] <enleth> CaptHindsight: it's not "hard to find" so much as "EOL and completely sold out at every major supplier"
[19:12:16] <enleth> seems like everybody who had an actual commercial design dependent on those bought out all they could shortly after the part was EOL'd
[19:12:58] <enleth> the chinese actually seem to be selling desoldered units on aliexpress
[19:13:19] <enleth> there must be some serious demand for those as replacement parts to justify this much effort
[19:17:18] <Tom_L> you'd think the MFG would see that as well
[19:17:58] Jin^eLD is now known as Jin|away
[19:18:25] <enleth> they were bought out and half their part portfolio got EOL'd
[19:20:52] <enleth> that's actually rather typical for acqusitions
[19:21:34] <enleth> the buyer had competing parts they wanted to keep and bought the smaller company to get some completely different designs
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[19:29:37] <CaptHindsight> what's the part number of the "problem" part?
[19:31:07] <CaptHindsight> Monty Python's Flying Circus - Election Night Special https://www.youtube.com
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[19:40:51] <enleth> CaptHindsight: IRAM256-2067A2, the 2 at the end is important, as is 20
[19:41:03] <enleth> you can still get some low current A1 versions
[19:41:14] <enleth> but 2067A2 is unobtainable
[19:50:23] <enleth> oh, someone found a likely drop-in replacement
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[19:51:36] <enleth> rene_dev_: have you seen the most recent comment in #91? someone asked about an ON Semi part, the first one linked wasn't any good due to connected emitters, but there's also STK554U392A-E that allows separate shunts per phase
[19:51:40] <cawfeet> what's the difference between a sheet metal welder (ticketed sheet metal worker) and a welder (ticketed welder)?
[19:52:11] <enleth> rene_dev_: they only have a 15A version with separate shunts, sadly, but the package is correct
[19:52:40] <cawfeet> i'm welding galc iron with no ventilation and standing in the smoke plume
[19:52:43] <cawfeet> galv
[19:53:28] <SpeedEvil> cawfeet: At some point, just sticking a hosepipe in your mouth and breathing in through that works better
[19:53:33] <CaptHindsight> yeah there wuz somebody that also welder galvanized
[19:53:52] <CaptHindsight> yeah
[19:54:23] <cawfeet> spent all day tig welding stainless. ends up one of my buttons wasn't closed. my arm is burned
[19:54:39] <SpeedEvil> Ow.
[19:55:18] <enleth> cawfeet: drink a glass or two of milk for zinc fumes, supposedly helps piss the zinc out before it does any damage
[19:55:38] <cawfeet> welder buddy of mine says sheet metal workers aren't real welders.
[19:56:07] <cawfeet> i think he's just jealous cause i get to work in good positions on clean stock
[19:56:07] <enleth> there's room for many "they can't do sheet" puns here
[19:56:13] <rene_dev_> enleth I know, I have a prototype PCB with a new module
[19:56:23] <rene_dev_> but so far no time to test it
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[20:06:23] <enleth> rene_dev_: cool, can't wait to see it released, I've got a robot in need of a replacement for some truly ancient servo drives and I'm saving it up to try out STMBL before I sink money into commercial servo drives
[20:14:27] <rene_dev_> nice, what kind of motors?
[20:20:42] <enleth> rene_dev_: I don't have nameplate photos at hand; the robot uses two sizes of Siemens synchronous servos with resolvers and integrated brakes, one size is about 4.5kW (A1-3) at - AFAIR - 470V, the other is about 2.5kW (A4-6)
[20:20:57] <rene_dev_> ok
[20:21:18] <enleth> pretty sure they're 1FK7105
[20:21:45] <gregcnc> is it dioz again?
[20:22:07] <enleth> which doesn't mean a lot at all, there's a bazillion motors in that series, but they're all STMBL-compatible I think
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[20:23:49] <enleth> the current servo drive is a monolithic 6 axis part, hard to get, hard to fix, extremely hard to interface with
[20:24:44] <enleth> wide parallel bus with no public specs, the only thing designed to talk to it is an ISA card controlled by VxWorks on Windows 95
[20:25:29] <rene_dev_> siemens 1fk7 series servos run really really good with stmbl
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[20:30:07] <enleth> KUKA wisened up and any later controllers use six separate servo drives that talk - I think - PROFINET
[20:30:18] <enleth> but I'm stuck with that thing
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[20:55:21] <CaptHindsight> nah Kuka just embellishes their specs and will try to see you anything
[20:55:30] <CaptHindsight> see/sell
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[21:23:20] <cawfeet> i want a metal lathe boys
[21:23:46] <cawfeet> and i need to buy a tig welder now. been welding at school. i'm hooked.
[21:24:22] <cawfeet> aluminium is like welding chocolate. stainless is simple.
[21:25:16] <cawfeet> i got a bunch of 2b stainless that i gitta build a plane out of
[21:25:39] <cawfeet> gotta put a number 4 finish on it
[21:26:17] <cawfeet> doing some triangulation right now for a round to oval fitting.
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[21:28:36] <cawfeet> https://imgur.com
[21:34:53] <cawfeet> this old tony, bad obsession motorsports, clickspring, ave, mrpete222, mathias wendel, chucke2009, myfordboy
[21:35:09] <cawfeet> anyone know any other good youtube channels?
[21:35:31] <cawfeet> abom79
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[22:01:08] <{HD}> Can anyone recommend some very thin medium adhesive double sided tape?
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[22:28:20] <{HD}> Maybe just scotch...
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[23:14:48] <Tom_L> {HD}, painter's double back tape
[23:17:04] <Rab> {HD}, maybe you want a substrate, but 3M makes transfer tape that's just adhesive on a peelable backing.
[23:18:26] <{HD}> Rab: I do want easy cleanup when I go to remove it.
[23:18:38] <{HD}> Tom_L: thats a thing‽
[23:18:44] <Tom_L> what's the application?
[23:19:33] <Tom_L> i've got a roll i use when i need to machine a thin part with a fair surface area
[23:20:28] <{HD}> I have a sacrificial board on my bed that I am replacing with a much thinner board. It is bolted down around the edges but I don’t want the middle to life up.
[23:21:08] <{HD}> Tom_L: whats the mfg?
[23:21:59] <Tom_L> https://www.homedepot.com
[23:22:02] <Tom_L> https://www.amazon.com
[23:22:06] <Tom_L> scotch
[23:22:52] <Tom_L> if thickness isn't an issue and you don't want it coming apart use automotive trim tape
[23:23:33] <Rab> {HD}, I've had some luck holding down delaminating formica with carpet tape: very tough and sticky. But it's usually reinforced, so not paper-thin.
[23:23:40] <{HD}> Thickness is a little bit of an issue. And I do want to be able to remove it when it comes time to replace the sacrificial board.
[23:24:21] <{HD}> Rab: I have used carpet tape in the past to do part hold down. I did not like it!
[23:25:53] <Tom_L> https://www.specialtycoatingsinc.com
[23:26:01] <Rab> 3M VHB is supposed to be the deluxe double-sided solution, but it usually comes in the form of compliant foam. You could see if 3M makes the same stuff on e.g. poly film.
[23:26:02] <Tom_L> i've got a roll of that i use from time to time
[23:26:15] <Tom_L> not really for holding parts but mounting things easily
[23:26:41] <Tom_L> that's the trim tape i was referring to
[23:28:10] <{HD}> Guess I might have to buy a few to test out.
[23:28:47] <Tom_L> the really thin stuff may not perform as well as something that can get in the crevices and adhere well
[23:29:21] <{HD}> I am thinking of using tempered hardboard smooth side towards the bed.
[23:29:33] <Rab> Tom_L, I figured the conformability was part of the magic of VHB. It's used for glass as well, though.
[23:31:35] <Rab> {HD}, whatever stickum you use, it's probably best to cover the entire back of the piece, so there's a consistent increase in thickness even where bolted. Otherwise anything added in the middle will promote bowing.
[23:31:38] <Tom_L> anyway, most of the products are 3M under Scotch brand
[23:31:54] <Tom_L> agreed
[23:32:58] <Rab> The use of the term Scotch in the name was a pejorative meaning "stingy" in the 1920s and 1930s.
[23:33:01] <Rab> The brand name Scotch came about around 1925 while Richard Drew was testing his first masking tape to determine how much adhesive he needed to add. The bodyshop painter became frustrated with the sample masking tape and exclaimed, "Take this tape back to those Scotch bosses of yours and tell them to put more adhesive on it!"
[23:33:10] <Rab> Scotty McTape, a kilt-wearing cartoon boy, was the brand's mascot for two decades, first appearing in 1944.
[23:33:24] <Rab> Haha, I knew it had to be racist.
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