#linuxcnc | Logs for 2018-11-07
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[00:12:02] <{HD}> I found some regular double sided scotch tape and it appears to be pretty strong.
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[01:12:39] <fragalot> hey
[01:12:47] <gloops> for the bed on my router i fitted 2x2 spars to the metal frame, then surfaced those off, the idea being i could then fit any mdf sheet to the spars and get a flat bed
[01:13:09] <gloops> rather than having to surface the whole area every time i change the sheet
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[01:17:06] <Wolf__> sounds like a solid idea, wouldnt work well on my plasma table tho
[01:18:17] <gloops> how close to flat does a plasma table need to be?
[01:18:31] <gloops> ive never had any dealings with one
[01:18:58] <Wolf__> not very actually, torch height controller moves the head to follow the metal as it warps
[01:20:12] <gloops> if i remember right, my metal frame was only about 1mm out over 4x3 feet, very surprising considering i made it on the garage floor lol
[01:20:21] <Wolf__> I still need to find time to build mine
[01:20:22] <gloops> 1mm out would be ok for plasma at that then
[01:21:48] <Wolf__> mine isnt even a table, its just a 1m x 1.5m frame that I plan to just drop on to the plate steel and tubes that I need to cut
[01:22:16] <Wolf__> I may bother to make a table with slat bed for smaller work at some point
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[01:23:02] <gloops> the ones ive seen usually have like a cattle grid top over a water tray?
[01:23:35] <Wolf__> yup, usually just strips of metal so you can replace them easy
[01:24:46] <gloops> suppose if you used bolted flat bar, you could unbolt and flip them over to get 2 goes out of every piece
[01:24:49] <Wolf__> I have my machine torch now, picked it up a few weeks ago, but worked 3 trade shows back to back so I haven’t had shit for time to get anything done
[01:25:12] <fragalot> you don't use bolts, you just cut the slots it goes into at a slight curve to friction fit them
[01:25:35] <gloops> well yeah, just drop them in
[01:25:38] <Wolf__> now I have 2 trucks to finish up, then 2 more coming in to be done
[01:25:39] <fragalot> so the bed looks like ((((((((
[01:27:11] <gloops> Wolf__ building anything for yourself always takes ages, i only got the router done because i had a month off work, id still be working on it now otherwise
[01:27:41] <gloops> no time, or time and no motivation
[01:28:24] <Wolf__> I did find a actual use for my 3d printer, making rocker switch adapters seeing the damm trucks dont have standardized switch sizes lol
[01:31:19] <Wolf__> 21.82mm x 40mm switches in the truck dash, 21x37 come with the body control…
[01:31:50] <fragalot> pwnt
[01:32:04] <Wolf__> and the holes are cut at 43.75mm
[01:32:14] <fragalot> lol
[01:32:33] <Wolf__> oops measured the truck switch at the wrong spot
[01:32:44] <Wolf__> they fit somewhat tight tho
[01:33:52] <Wolf__> tempted to see how painful $$$ wise having a knockout die made for these switches would be
[01:35:27] <fragalot> fairly resonable if you do it frequently enough
[01:36:43] <gloops> make a benchtop injection moulder lol
[01:36:55] <gloops> actually not a big undertaking
[01:37:27] <Wolf__> need to make the holes in alum dash panels
[01:37:44] <gloops> oh i thought to make the switches
[01:38:22] <Wolf__> one plus to these trucks bodies, they come will everything needed for install
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[01:39:37] <Wolf__> before https://i.imgur.com after https://i.imgur.com (first install)
[01:40:05] <gloops> well i wanted to build a 4 axis but that idea is well in the long grass, ive got a bandsaw to finish and a dovetailing jig to finish testing and thats it, for a good while
[01:40:28] * fragalot peels the plastic off
[01:41:33] <Wolf__> current one I have on the desk, the panel needs 2 more holes added to it
[01:42:08] <fragalot> it might be nicer to have a die for a press to make those holes instead of a knockout
[01:42:16] <fragalot> saves you the time to drill the 1/2" hole
[01:42:42] <Wolf__> and the first one I added a filler plate under the switches to make them work
[01:42:44] <fragalot> and you could have locating pins on a fixture plate to align the panel
[01:43:01] <Wolf__> they are all different shapes…
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[01:43:18] <gloops> how are you going to mark out for a die though
[01:43:21] <fragalot> that's why dies have inserts :P
[01:43:28] <fragalot> anyway i'm off -- ttyl
[01:43:31] <gloops> i mean that will take more time than marking for a drill
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[01:43:51] <Wolf__> that was my thought as well
[01:46:53] <Wolf__> knockout die + https://www.greenlee.com(7646).html?product_id=19203
[01:47:36] <Wolf__> then I could do the stuff at the install shop vs needing to bring the stuff back to my other shop lol
[01:49:14] <gloops> worth a trial if it saves time
[01:50:02] <Wolf__> from the sounds of things I’ll have another 20 trucks to do by march lol
[02:02:12] <CaptHindsight> well if you ask in that other channel then you should be using wood :p
[02:02:40] <Wolf__> lol
[02:03:16] <CaptHindsight> or possibly some cured dried meat
[02:11:33] <Wolf__> so any insight in to making rectangular switch holes in to 2mm alum Capt?
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[02:30:20] <miss0r2> log
[02:30:20] <russian_troll> miss0r2: Today's Log http://www.isaeff.net
[02:30:20] <c-log> miss0r2: Today's Log http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81
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[02:45:41] <Deejay> moin
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[03:46:33] <saldot> Good morning. Trying to figure out the wiring schematic for a Mesa7i76 that i'll connect to a Terrasic PGA card that'll run Machinekit.
[03:47:08] <saldot> As for the mesa, not sure how i'll supply the power to it. I'll need to supply 5V for the board and stepper signasl (i assume) and 12V for the endstops.
[03:48:07] <saldot> Can I wire +5V & +12V to the TB1 field connector or do i need to wire the +5V to the TB3 step/ir terminals and wire +5v to each individual stepper?
[03:49:29] <saldot> OIr perhaps it's enough if i supply 12V and the 7i76 can handle it and "transform" it down to +5v where needed if i place the W1 jumper in the left position?
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[04:09:47] <gloops> probably need to speak to the devs/mesa people saldot
[04:10:11] <gloops> pcw_mesa jthornton
[04:10:26] <gloops> its just dropping on them when theyre here
[04:10:57] <saldot> ok
[04:11:57] <gloops> hazzy-m gregcnc maybe
[04:22:58] <miss0r2> hay hay hay
[04:23:17] <miss0r2> I just got word from the "local" teflon coating company. This is alot cheaper than Id though
[04:24:01] <miss0r2> I have a part measuring 270x95x95 externally. Alot of surface area as it is bored out to nothing. And they only charge $50 for a treatment
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[05:51:02] Jin|away is now known as Jin^eLD
[05:51:07] <Jin^eLD> morning
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[05:53:12] <Jin^eLD> got my machine pedals from Ali, those that were 3EUR per piece, I have to say I am positively surprised. Sure, the casting is a bit rough and some oily chips thread cutting are still there, but otherwise - look good, I am amazed by the price
[05:53:31] <XXCoder> pedals?
[05:53:40] <Jin^eLD> sorry, foot switches
[05:53:43] <Jin^eLD> that'd be the correct term
[05:54:06] <XXCoder> ahh cool
[05:54:52] <Jin^eLD> https://www.aliexpress.com
[05:55:08] <XXCoder> nice
[05:55:18] <XXCoder> surpising cheap
[05:55:34] <Jin^eLD> shipping was more expensive than two switches, but still a lot cheaper than comparable used offers around here
[05:57:07] <Jin^eLD> inside is a normal micro switch, very primitive construction, but I don't see anything that could go wrong there mechanically
[05:57:49] <Tom_L> 43F, Hi 49, Lo 36
[06:06:05] <miss0r2> Jin^eLD: Don't cheap out on the microswitches
[06:06:34] <Jin^eLD> miss0r2: those are not expensive here either, so replacing would be easy
[06:06:55] <miss0r2> ahh, indeed.. So a standard microswitch inside of that pedal?
[06:06:59] <Jin^eLD> yes!
[06:07:09] <Jin^eLD> I can make a photo of the insides if anyone is interested
[06:07:40] <miss0r2> no need :) I'm sure the chinese can make 'okay' foot pedals
[06:08:12] <Jin^eLD> I was looking for those foot pedals here locally, and I think new ones started from 100eur and used ones around 50 or so, per foot switch of course
[06:08:21] <miss0r2> I had a batch of chinesium microswitches I had to throw out. they broke on the inside due to metal fatigue
[06:08:41] <miss0r2> yeah.. that is nuts: that almost sounds like what it would cost to make one
[06:08:55] <miss0r2> :D
[06:09:06] <Jin^eLD> :)
[06:10:39] <Jin^eLD> I hope mine were not handmade using a file by some kid, 3 euro including casting, paint, switch, galvanizing and making some profit... really hard to imagine
[06:11:06] <miss0r2> I can quite easily imagine kids were involved in making them
[06:11:07] <miss0r2> :)
[06:11:25] <Jin^eLD> heh
[06:11:56] <miss0r2> I mean; how in the world would you be able to do something that cheap otherwise?
[06:12:04] <miss0r2> That is quite ridiculous
[06:12:13] <Jin^eLD> they are factory made though
[06:12:31] <miss0r2> You can't even buy proper aluminium casting material for doing it for three eur around here
[06:12:40] <Jin^eLD> yes...
[06:12:59] <miss0r2> You sure you are not buying a photograph of a pedal switch? :)
[06:13:05] <miss0r2> Simular things have happened in the past
[06:13:08] <Jin^eLD> I have them here
[06:13:11] <Jin^eLD> they arrived yesterday
[06:13:29] <Jin^eLD> I think we first had a talk in the channel when I ordered them
[06:14:06] <Jin^eLD> and the expectations were quite low :)
[06:14:31] <Jin^eLD> now they're here and don't look bad at all, which surpises me even more given the low price
[06:15:04] <miss0r2> in that case I would love to see a few photos
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[06:33:42] <Jin^eLD> here you go: http://deadlock.dhs.org
[06:33:55] <Jin^eLD> note the paper isolation of the contacts :))
[06:34:03] <Jin^eLD> and I need to clean the chips they left from thread cutting
[06:34:05] <jthornton> morning
[06:34:12] <Jin^eLD> but otherwise it looks fine to me
[06:34:18] <Jin^eLD> hi jthornton
[06:36:33] <Jin^eLD> and they did not grind away stuff after casting, that looks different on each pedal
[06:36:40] <XXCoder> hey jthornton
[06:39:24] <jthornton> what's up this morning
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[06:39:51] <XXCoder> had to trim one block because saws screwed one part up
[06:40:22] <XXCoder> and found out that I (somehow) thought all parts of job I finished few days ago was done so I broke down setup
[06:40:29] <XXCoder> and turns out only half of em was
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[06:40:49] <miss0r2> Jin^eLD: That looks surprisingly good, I must say
[06:41:08] <XXCoder> so boss was quite upset as setup takes time (which is money) and that part is typically problem one that first part tend to be scrap
[06:41:14] <miss0r2> Sadly I need to run. See you around
[06:41:16] <XXCoder> so good chance there will be another
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[06:41:28] <Jin^eLD> miss0r2: it was a surprise to me as well...
[06:41:33] <Jin^eLD> a positive one :)
[06:42:42] <XXCoder> jthornton: it pissed me off as normally I check all parts when counting
[06:42:44] <jthornton> that had to suck
[06:42:48] <XXCoder> so it was pretty bad screwup
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[06:44:47] <jthornton> we managed to get the planer out of my van yesterday evening and got it on the stand... that was interesting
[06:45:46] <jthornton> installed windblows xp on a hard drive and now it won't activate...
[06:46:02] <XXCoder> bleh
[06:46:17] <XXCoder> did they take down xp activation or is it domething wrong elsewhere?
[06:46:20] <jthornton> I need that for my ACAD electric schematic program and for an older version of SolidWorks I have
[06:46:39] <jthornton> I guess so, I've found some work arounds to try
[06:47:04] <jthornton> worst case I could work from my old laptop...yuck
[06:47:52] <XXCoder> maybe https://www.wikihow.com
[06:48:21] <XXCoder> oh wait maybe not it
[06:48:36] <jthornton> http://www.americancomputerenterprises.com
[06:48:43] <jthornton> that's the one I'm going to try
[06:49:06] <XXCoder> not bad
[06:49:13] <jthornton> and crap left a stupid weather page up and now I'm 1.5 GB behind on data for the month
[06:49:41] <XXCoder> ouch! you should get noscript and disable some scripts
[06:50:07] <XXCoder> or create eink weather station using old kindle ebook reader hacked
[06:50:21] <XXCoder> https://mpetroff.net
[06:50:29] <jthornton> opps got that backwards I'm ahead... need to finish a cup of joe
[06:50:41] <XXCoder> it downloads ONLY text so very little bandwidtjh
[06:51:24] <jthornton> I use the wunderground page to get the high and low temps for my chicken spreadsheet
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[06:52:37] <XXCoder> that one updates only twice a day, and downloads "website" from your own server
[06:52:42] <XXCoder> so very little data used
[06:52:47] <jthornton> cool
[06:53:00] <XXCoder> you can even frame it :)
[06:53:16] <XXCoder> https://www.galacticstudios.org
[06:54:05] <XXCoder> that version seems to downloaf more often but still very little data
[06:54:25] <XXCoder> since bulk of data is pictures and thats from your own server not somewhere remote
[06:54:43] <jthornton> yea but what I need is data in a spreadsheet form with high and lows for each day
[06:55:04] <XXCoder> second version does
[06:55:14] <XXCoder> its more fancy version
[06:55:43] <XXCoder> if you plan a frame, you can build in a huge battery pack so it could last quite a long time
[06:55:51] <jthornton> https://www.wunderground.com
[06:56:11] <jthornton> scroll down to daily observations, that's what I copy and paste
[06:56:48] <XXCoder> you could make script to strip that data and create webpage
[06:56:55] <XXCoder> your kindle could load that page
[06:57:09] <jthornton> I don't have a kindle...
[06:57:21] <XXCoder> model on that page? old. easy to get on ebay cheap
[06:58:11] <XXCoder> https://www.ebay.com this model
[06:58:59] <XXCoder> average seems just under 20 bucks. im kinda tempted lol
[06:59:16] <jthornton> https://www.backyardchickens.com
[06:59:29] <jthornton> you can see the charts I make on that page
[07:00:35] <XXCoder> other way would be that you just edit website and update data
[07:00:45] <XXCoder> and kindle simplt keep loading it once a while
[07:01:06] <XXCoder> one update a day would make kindle live for month even with old battery
[07:01:09] <XXCoder> or longer
[07:01:38] <jthornton> I need to find a way to do it without a kindle lol
[07:01:40] <XXCoder> with battery pack it'd lose power more by idle than actually using it
[07:01:56] <XXCoder> driving a eink screen is bit harder
[07:02:17] <jthornton> I got my replacement RPi 3's in yesterday for the chicken door but the heat sinks won't arrive until today
[07:02:18] <XXCoder> and actually more money strangely
[07:02:56] <jthornton> hold your breath I'm using dd to back up my RPi SD card...
[07:03:26] <XXCoder> dd lol pretty dangerous
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[07:05:55] <Jin^eLD> XXCoder: only if you mess up the parameters ;)
[07:06:08] <XXCoder> yeah I always do triple verify
[07:06:37] <XXCoder> because its like missile, you better know what you are doing
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[07:08:19] <jthornton> https://thepihut.com
[07:08:30] <jthornton> hope that it correct lol
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[07:09:05] <jthornton> sudo dd if=/dev/sdb of=~/SDCardBackup.img
[07:09:28] <XXCoder> in from disk and out to file
[07:09:32] <XXCoder> looks correct
[07:09:54] <jthornton> yea making a copy of the SD card I hope
[07:09:57] <XXCoder> restore is just flipped
[07:10:15] <jthornton> I use etcher to burn :)
[07:10:21] <XXCoder> guide is qyite strightforward
[07:11:29] <jthornton> looks like one of the hens is starting to moult maybe, found a bunch of feathers under the roost this morning when they got up
[07:11:46] <XXCoder> whats the day cycle time at now?
[07:12:35] <jthornton> it's on the fall cycle as we still have more than 10 hours of daylight
[07:12:49] <XXCoder> cool
[07:13:11] <jthornton> I need to get the program into the operating door soon as nov 23 it switches to adding light 5 minutes per day
[07:14:37] <jthornton> I should have taken a photo of us getting the planer out of the van...
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[07:16:30] <XXCoder> maybe you can bring it out again and pretend it was getting out of van pic ;)
[07:17:48] <jthornton> naw too much trouble... what we did was take a couple of 4x4's and put in the planer then screwed the planer down till it held the boards then put them over the bucket and under the brace for the loader bucket on the kubota
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[07:19:13] <jthornton> https://www.everythingattachments.com
[07:19:56] <XXCoder> interesting
[07:21:22] <jthornton> see the tube behind the bucket? that's where we put the 4x4 under
[07:21:49] <XXCoder> yeah
[07:22:18] <jthornton> I wish I had a set of forks for the bucket...
[07:25:05] <XXCoder> that would have made it easier yea
[07:25:54] <XXCoder> man I hate time changes
[07:25:59] <XXCoder> it screws with me :(
[07:26:01] <XXCoder> later
[07:26:11] <jthornton> me too
[07:26:13] <jthornton> night
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[07:39:14] <gloops> so..i need a side of a triangle from 1 side and 2 angles....i think ill measure it instead
[07:40:04] <jthornton> I need to make a triangle from a square then cut dovetails then make it round
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[07:52:57] <gloops> im just trying to work out the width of cut at the top of a dovetail cutter, at various depths, my mrs will have a look later shes good at maths
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[07:54:17] <jthornton> I cheat and use SW
[07:57:34] <gloops> i can draw it an measure in an app yeah i suppose, id rather have the theoretical distance to compare with as well though, its not that important anyway
[07:59:19] <gloops> will only be going through wood from say 10 to 21mm if i had a measurement for each mm increment it would be easier to draw the paths whatever thickness im using
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[08:56:04] <saldot> Does LinuxCNC support "at position" signals from steppers with encoders or servos?
[08:57:54] <jthornton> what do you mean by at position?
[08:58:52] <saldot> My motor can send out a at pisition signal. Wondering if i should wire that or not
[08:59:11] <saldot> jthornton: https://webseite.sorotec.de
[08:59:39] <jthornton> not that I know of, steppers are normally open loop and servos are normally closed by the encoder feedback
[09:00:08] <jthornton> I don't know of any pin that would use an in position signal from a driver
[09:00:16] <saldot> On apage 3 is a list of all inputs/outputs on that servo motor. One of thise is a "in position" signal. Never heard of it before but wondering if it might be useful for somereason
[09:00:52] <saldot> Perhaps so that the controller doesnt send a new move command to the motor before the previous is done i guess...
[09:01:04] <gregcnc> I don't think that is useful for CNC
[09:01:14] <saldot> As some sort of servo feedback to the controler.
[09:02:16] <saldot> I could wire it to a input port on a Mesa 7i76. But if LinuxCNC has no use for it.. that'd be a waste of time.
[09:07:13] <rmu> saldot: it seems this servo is used like a stepper, from linuxcnc-perspective it is open loop
[09:08:51] <rmu> saldot: perhaps some kind of supervision of the "in position" pin would not hurt
[09:08:53] <saldot> Yup. works sort of like a clearpath-SD motor i guess. Servo but only accepts step/dir signals.
[09:09:37] <rmu> if you have the inputs available i would wire them, just in case
[09:09:49] <rmu> also the alarm pins
[09:10:17] <saldot> Yup. Alarm will be wired and i'll wire the position as well than.
[09:10:40] <gregcnc> Linuxcnc doesn't wait for such a signal. Moves are generated and timed such that they happen as commanded.
[09:10:43] <saldot> The cable & connectors i'll use have enough leads/pins anyways so.
[09:10:49] <saldot> Thanks for the help. =)
[09:11:31] <saldot> gregcnc: and i guess it's possible to configure the acceleration et.c. you've set in the servo so linuxCNC knows when to send the move signals?
[09:13:03] <rmu> waiting for the signal probably doesn't make much sense, depending on speed and steps/rotation, you will have some following error while moving, the datasheet doesn't really say if one can expect the motor to be "in position" after each "step"
[09:13:15] <saldot> Wondering because we've replaced the steppers on our laser at the makerspace with clearpath-SD servos and our controller cant handle that.. impossible to get smooth motion since, i guess, the controller doesnt know when to send signals to the servos
[09:13:31] <rmu> but in case something is strange it sure would not hurt to add it in some halscope plots
[09:13:51] <gregcnc> you'd have to see exactly how that signal works
[09:14:01] <gregcnc> how much following error it allows.
[09:14:52] <gregcnc> there are some drives which err when the motor is out of position by a certain number of encoder steps
[09:15:12] <rmu> saldot: you have to configure acceleration and speed in linuxcnc such that the servo can follow, you won't have much means to detect a stall, but i expect an alarm is signalled if difference between commanded and real position becomes "large"
[09:15:29] <saldot> ok!
[09:16:49] <saldot> So i guess i should set the exact same acceleration in LinuxCNC as i do in the servodrivers?
[09:17:30] <rmu> I would set values in linuxcnc slightly below max
[09:17:38] <pcw_home> the servo drivers motion limits should be set higher than linuxCNCs
[09:18:16] <pcw_home> otherwise the driver will bound the velocity or acceleration and cause a (undetected) following error
[09:19:28] <saldot> Right. Makes sense. So LinuxCNC doesn't ask the motor to accelerate faster than the driver allows it to
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[09:40:59] <gloops> well, planer works great anyway, one long overdue project down, 2 to go
[09:41:51] <Jin^eLD> congrats on getting something done, so far my projects spawn faster than I can finish them :P
[09:42:33] <JT-Shop> did you come up with a better way to sharpen the knives?
[09:42:42] <gloops> heh, ive got this grim determination with this now - do not start anything else
[09:43:18] * Jin^eLD is a master of project creep
[09:44:06] <JT-Shop> I feel the same way... way too many projects and last night the wife decided she wants me to modify the kitchen cabinets and remove the wine rack and put shelves in
[09:44:48] <Jin^eLD> luckily mine hates all sorts of reconstruction so I don't have to deal with "off-topic" projects :)
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[10:26:49] <CaptHindsight> https://www.techrepublic.com
[10:28:39] <CaptHindsight> "Debian-based distribution"
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[12:28:53] <fragalot> hi
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[12:53:55] <Loetmichel> *MUHAHA* $me just had a real troll behind him on the way home from work. First he accelerates to deny me merging... when i still manage to merge into the highway 20m in front of him and then have to brake HARD to not hit the back end of the usual traffic jam he uses horn and highbeams to express his displeasure... then he drives behind me thru the jam SO close that i couldnt even see his
[12:53:55] <Loetmichel> window washer jets in the rearview mirror... then he pulls in behind me in the roundabout when the gap wasnt even really big enough for me... as soon as the street got 2 lanes behind the roundabout he accelerates like crazy, overtakes me, and cuts back in so close that i though he must have hit my fender, then accelerates off with 120++kph on a 80kph limit street. 1000m later its 60kph...
[12:53:55] <Loetmichel> and has a fixed speed trap... the red flash and the sound of screeching tires i saw in the distance was pure sweet karma... would have liked to see his face though ;)
[12:57:09] <fragalot> both of you sound like dicks in traffic :P
[12:59:25] <Loetmichel> dick?
[12:59:30] <Loetmichel> why me?
[12:59:47] <Loetmichel> for merging into a lane with still 20m room in front of him?
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[13:00:37] <Loetmichel> i wouldnt have merged if he had accelerated a bit faster... i doubt he would have had the braking space then though, because i could already see the end of the traffic jam
[13:01:00] <jdh> if it was a safe move, you wouldn't have to hit brakes.
[13:01:34] <Loetmichel> jdh: i knew that i would fit in there or i would have canceled the merge and gone in behind him
[13:01:46] <Loetmichel> i know how much room my car needs to brake
[13:03:55] <jdh> heh.
[13:04:55] <jdh> how about just avoiding the need to brake hard in the first place
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[13:13:29] <cradek> in some places in the US they will ticket you for improper zippering and I think that should be the rule everywhere. competing for lane placement is dumb, and without a zipper rule it's what always happens.
[13:14:45] <Loetmichel> cradek: in germany he HAD to let me in
[13:15:42] <Loetmichel> there is Indeed a rule that merging onto a "bundestrraße" has to be in zipper style in heavy traffic
[13:16:25] <Loetmichel> him intentionally accelerating to block me while already seeing the end of the jam was in violation of several traffic rules
[13:16:51] <Loetmichel> and had i seen that i would have not fit in there i would have braked and merged in behind him
[13:17:07] <Loetmichel> but there was enough room (about 20 m) so i did
[13:17:08] <CaptHindsight> but me first, don't you understand that yet?
[13:17:42] <Loetmichel> and then braked to avoid hitting the end of the traffic jam i had in view the entire time
[13:18:46] <CaptHindsight> ME FIRST
[13:19:30] <CaptHindsight> you have to say it like a 4 year old
[13:20:13] <fragalot> lol
[13:21:01] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: and stomp on the ground multiple times?
[13:22:44] * Loetmichel should really get that "coal runner" switch for the car. (its a turbocharged diesel, just lie to the ECU that it has way more air than it has and it will push out loads of sooot)... especially for guys like that that tailgate at 80kph with literally inches from my bumper
[13:24:41] <fragalot> shall I repeat my previous statement?
[13:27:32] <CaptHindsight> I've had a few people that were behind me crash into the cars in front of me after I changed lanes
[13:28:12] <CaptHindsight> that were in front of me before I changed lanes
[13:28:36] <fragalot> CaptHindsight: do you have any experience building robotic arms with a mill head, or 500W laser attached to the end of it to machine stainless?
[13:29:57] <CaptHindsight> big arms no problem
[13:30:23] <fragalot> reach of 1500mm
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[13:31:01] <fragalot> I need a budget quote on one to make it more clear why I decided to go for that deckel rather than a "modern robotic arm solution"
[13:31:21] <CaptHindsight> heh
[13:31:40] <fragalot> they don't believe me when I say that it's not going to happen under 150k
[13:31:50] <CaptHindsight> big robot yeah
[13:31:58] <CaptHindsight> go price any big robot
[13:33:09] <fragalot> one of the issues is that the person making the most noise things that the arm is a better solution because "it could have a camera and magically knows what it needs to do without any instruction"
[13:33:18] <fragalot> :P
[13:33:46] <Loetmichel> fragalot: the "do what i want not what i say" programming?
[13:34:24] <fragalot> Loetmichel: yeah
[13:34:26] <fragalot> it just knows
[13:34:28] <fragalot> it's AI
[13:34:31] <fragalot> industry 4.0
[13:34:39] <CaptHindsight> fragalot: been watching too much TV
[13:36:16] <CaptHindsight> all this AI talk lately in the news makes it sound like a standard feature
[13:36:22] <CaptHindsight> of anything
[13:36:23] <fragalot> yeah it just works
[13:36:39] <fragalot> magically solves any issue
[13:36:41] <fragalot> need business logic?
[13:36:42] <fragalot> AI.
[13:36:50] <fragalot> need to develop a new product?
[13:36:51] <fragalot> AI.
[13:37:02] <fragalot> assembly problems due to lead times?
[13:37:03] <fragalot> AI!
[13:37:03] <CaptHindsight> well for many businesses...
[13:37:16] <CaptHindsight> DMV worker, no problem
[13:37:20] <fragalot> sure
[13:37:46] <fragalot> assuming you have a sufficient amount of training data, or an easy to check result, AI can work
[13:38:11] <fragalot> if you do not have reliable data today, and no real way to check it without human supervision and a LOT of calling around, AI is not going to solve that.
[13:39:00] <CaptHindsight> https://www.ebay.com one used with smaller reach
[13:39:44] <CaptHindsight> oh larger reach 104"
[13:39:53] <fragalot> less than I expected
[13:40:05] <CaptHindsight> well used
[13:40:23] <CaptHindsight> and not very precise for machining
[13:40:27] <fragalot> yeah
[13:40:35] <CaptHindsight> Repeatability: (+ / -) 0.011"
[13:40:40] <fragalot> I mean, we only really need 0.1mm resolution
[13:42:08] <CaptHindsight> https://motioncontrolsrobotics.com
[13:42:08] <CaptHindsight> some general pricing
[13:42:36] <fragalot> sweet, thanks
[13:42:51] <CaptHindsight> maybe a Chinabot with pot metal arms and stepper motor joints
[13:43:07] <fragalot> according to "him", china is ahead on robot arms so we should buy it from alibaba
[13:43:26] <CaptHindsight> hahahaha
[13:43:54] <CaptHindsight> is this guy an employee or someone from down at the pub?
[13:46:39] <CaptHindsight> some used pricing
[13:46:47] <CaptHindsight> http://www.globalrobots.com
[13:48:09] <CaptHindsight> some are pretty low but unless it was from a factory that opened and suddenly closed
[13:48:16] <CaptHindsight> it's likely worn
[13:48:31] <fragalot> yeah
[13:49:02] <fragalot> whilst an arm would be neat, and could certainly work for what we need, i'm only really looking at them "because I have to" as in my eyes they make zero sense
[13:50:41] <fragalot> other than "cool factor" they offer little advantage over the horizontal mill I bought
[13:53:23] <CaptHindsight> not nearly as rigid until they get really big
[13:53:50] <fragalot> if we'd go fiber laser that's not that much of an issue
[13:54:09] <fragalot> but then we can only cover 70% of the products, rather than 90% with the cheaper mill
[13:54:11] <methods_> we just got a fiber laser
[13:54:17] <methods_> pretty awesome
[13:54:22] <methods_> can cut copper and brass now
[13:54:28] <fragalot> we're considering a flat bed laser with pipe attachment
[13:54:31] <methods_> etch aluminum
[13:54:39] <methods_> yeah we were lookin at that too
[13:54:45] <methods_> but the machine was like 750k
[13:54:48] <fragalot> methods_: i've heard horror stories from the local laser cutter shop here cutting copper
[13:54:57] <methods_> without the tube attachment we paid about 400k
[13:55:03] <fragalot> APPARENTLY, if you are unlucky, it can be a "perfect mirror" and ruin the machine :P
[13:55:08] <methods_> yeah
[13:55:16] <methods_> with a co2 you couldn't cut it at all
[13:55:26] <methods_> even alum could cause a flashback
[13:58:02] <Loetmichel> methods_: you CAN cut copper with co2
[13:58:05] <Loetmichel> been there done that
[13:58:23] <CaptHindsight> methods_: which brand did you end up with?
[13:58:41] <Loetmichel> you just need to blacken it with soot beforehand and have a pretty high pressure air assist on the laser nozzle
[13:58:58] <methods_> we got the amada
[13:58:59] <fragalot> https://imgur.com
[13:59:02] <Loetmichel> and it STILL sends back quite a reasonable amount of laser into the tube/lens
[13:59:11] <fragalot> that moment where you vote for the dead guy because he's still better than the alternative?
[13:59:12] <CaptHindsight> whats amada?
[13:59:18] <CaptHindsight> nufin
[13:59:24] <methods_> hahah
[13:59:50] <methods_> https://www.youtube.com
[13:59:52] <methods_> that laser
[14:00:11] <CaptHindsight> is fabtech this week?
[14:00:17] <methods_> https://youtu.be
[14:00:20] <methods_> yeah
[14:00:24] <methods_> it's in atl too
[14:00:27] <methods_> but i'm not going
[14:00:30] <methods_> 6-8th
[14:00:43] <methods_> i'm going to try and hit IMTS next year
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[14:01:22] <methods_> maybe bring the wife and make a vacation out of it in chicago
[14:01:37] <CaptHindsight> 2020
[14:02:00] <methods_> where is it 2019?
[14:02:11] <CaptHindsight> they skip the odd years
[14:02:19] <CaptHindsight> https://www.imts.com
[14:02:36] <methods_> ahhh
[14:02:45] <methods_> well 2020 then i guess
[14:02:49] <CaptHindsight> economy, production is down, 3d printers etc :P
[14:03:14] <fragalot> lol
[14:03:27] <fragalot> DEY TEK ER JERBS
[14:03:28] <methods_> hehe
[14:07:54] <CaptHindsight> guess we be needin walls round the bots
[14:09:04] <CaptHindsight> if you follow their logic
[14:09:20] <fragalot> you kinda need to wall them in ANYWAY :P
[14:09:40] <CaptHindsight> heh, sounds of a cartoon crash next door, like 100 pipes rolled and fell
[14:09:48] <fragalot> lol
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[14:30:40] <gloops> Dow Jones Industrial Average (^DJI)
[14:30:40] <gloops> DJI - DJI Real Time Price. Currency in USD
[14:30:40] <gloops> Add to watchlist
[14:30:40] <gloops> 26,081.13+446.12
[14:32:15] <CaptHindsight> please, no ticker tapes to the IRC screen :p
[14:32:44] <gloops> its an economic miracle
[14:35:10] <fragalot> still climbing
[14:37:15] <fragalot> i've always wondered
[14:37:18] <fragalot> when they say it's up 1%
[14:37:23] <fragalot> .. 1% compared to what?
[14:37:52] <gregcnc> previous day close
[14:38:45] <fragalot> i see
[14:42:44] <CaptHindsight> DJI last 50 years
[14:43:18] <CaptHindsight> https://www.macrotrends.net
[14:43:37] <fragalot> is that chart adjusted for inflation?
[14:43:42] <fragalot> never mind
[14:44:10] <CaptHindsight> your choice ;
[14:44:14] <fragalot> :P
[14:45:16] <CaptHindsight> due for another recession soon
[14:45:45] <gloops> certainly
[14:45:52] <gloops> what goes up, must come down
[14:46:09] <CaptHindsight> cept for numbers
[14:46:45] <fragalot> I'm a big fan of the debt clock
[14:47:01] <fragalot> especially because it's a scale that doesn't add up
[14:47:06] <gregcnc> do you have one of your own?
[14:47:07] <fragalot> people owe more money than there is
[14:47:33] <fragalot> I do, thankfully that one is going down :D
[14:47:47] <CaptHindsight> I think that they will push the next recession to 2021
[14:47:50] <gloops> fiat economy, money is not underwritten by anything real
[14:48:03] <gloops> just increase the supply, forever
[14:48:05] <Tom_L> non lcnc but interesting: https://www.youtube.com
[14:48:10] <CaptHindsight> right after the next US election
[14:48:42] <fragalot> CaptHindsight: at which point the next president can either choose to claim the economy at the start of his terms as his own, or blame the previous one
[14:49:04] <gloops> yeah, Trump will get the second term before he lets it deflate
[14:49:17] <gregcnc> well I'm sure our new governor will fix things right up, just as good as the last one
[14:49:23] <gloops> round and round the big wheel goes
[14:49:53] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: we need more gambling
[14:50:28] <CaptHindsight> also marijuana and prostitution to balance the budget
[14:50:55] <CaptHindsight> that was the long term plan :)
[14:51:06] <fragalot> :P
[14:51:18] <fragalot> "hey look at how much crime went down"
[14:51:30] <Tom_L> yeah everything was legalized
[14:52:57] <CaptHindsight> well Puritans setting up the rules for things was a idea we tried
[14:53:11] <CaptHindsight> hasn't worked out too well
[14:54:58] <CaptHindsight> greed finds a way
[14:56:06] <CaptHindsight> <spoken in Goldblum voice from Jurassic Park>
[14:56:09] <Tom_L> mad max is an alternative
[14:56:58] <CaptHindsight> fragalot: has your land turned into motorcycle gangs and mullets yet?
[14:57:07] <fragalot> turned into?
[14:57:09] <fragalot> we invented that
[14:57:11] <fragalot> (no idea
[14:57:12] <fragalot> )
[14:57:13] <CaptHindsight> hah
[14:57:33] <fragalot> there have been a few big cases regarding motorcycle gangs, but they're the usual suspects
[14:57:53] <fragalot> forgot what the judges ruling was
[14:58:41] <CaptHindsight> with all the legal pot and prostitution your country must be a cesspool anarchists
[14:59:37] <fragalot> that's the netherlands, not belgium
[14:59:57] <CaptHindsight> what's the difference? :)
[14:59:59] <fragalot> here pot is "condoned" in some areas, and zero tolerance according to the law in others
[15:00:09] <fragalot> and i'm not sure about prostitution
[15:00:56] <CaptHindsight> <-- not really sure where everyone here lives
[15:01:16] <fragalot> apparently
[15:01:20] <fragalot> :P
[15:03:30] <CaptHindsight> how do you think the Germans turned Berlin around, it used to look like Detroit
[15:04:41] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org
[15:04:52] <CaptHindsight> cellulose deposition
[15:08:03] <CaptHindsight> https://spectrum.ieee.org
[15:08:46] * fragalot is going to make a 3D printer that prints using starch and call it a biodegradable materials printer
[15:09:01] <fragalot> get myself out there on 3ders as if it's amazing
[15:09:25] <fragalot> heck, I might even go as far as to add dye into a static mixer chamber right before the nozzle
[15:09:46] <CaptHindsight> pigs will fly first :P
[15:10:37] <fragalot> pigs can fly. People said that there would be a black president when pigs fly.
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[15:46:48] <jthornton> hola
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[15:48:29] <Tom_L> ok lcnc test box all set up again
[15:50:14] <jthornton> what are you testing?
[15:50:39] <Tom_L> nothing now
[15:50:52] <Tom_L> swapped MB out and had to add a pcie ethernet card
[15:51:27] <Tom_L> set up a dual boot on it to run cad in windows and preempt on linux
[15:51:49] <Tom_L> the kid was buggin me to have a cad station he could use
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[15:57:38] <jthornton> I still don't have cad working down here in the beer cave...
[16:03:13] <XXCoder> jthornton: did you manage to "activate" xp?
[16:06:23] <XXCoder> oops boeing warning to all 737 MAX owners
[16:07:11] <XXCoder> they have to fix the software, if use manual pilot, there is error in controlling plane
[16:07:33] <XXCoder> “The erroneous AOA input can pitch the aircraft’s stabilizing trim down for up to 10 seconds at a time,” said The Air Current.
[16:09:19] <jthornton> XXCoder: not yet, got busy and had to go to the industrial park
[16:11:00] <XXCoder> today and next 4 days is all under 50
[16:11:06] <XXCoder> pretty cool already
[16:12:52] <jthornton> we start that tomorrow
[16:13:07] * jthornton wanders back out to the new shop to get some work done
[16:14:21] <XXCoder> fun
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[16:25:07] <{HD}> New shop! Fancy.
[16:25:36] <{HD}> Gotta get new bearings for my tablesaw
[16:33:36] <XXCoder> doh!
[16:33:40] <XXCoder> polar votex coming
[16:33:45] <XXCoder> only west is unaffected
[16:35:07] <{HD}> Oh man I liked my last polar vortex. I hope I get one later. I hope for a very snowy winter.
[16:35:09] <JT-Shop> we are getting some pretty cold nights
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[16:35:54] <JT-Shop> yea my heat sinks are here
[16:36:02] <sync> it has been unusually warm here
[16:38:13] <XXCoder> this place is almost immune to snows
[16:38:24] <XXCoder> it almost never snows, and if snows, lasts less than day
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[16:49:32] <Tom_L> snow on the way here supposedly
[16:51:33] <Tom_L> thursday
[16:53:03] <Deejay> gn8
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[17:00:32] <JT-Shop> anyone build a scara robot?
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[17:09:11] <JT-Shop> so I ask the clerk at home depot where are the 15 amp 220v single phase receptacle... clerk what's it for... me it doesn't matter I need a 220 volt 15 amp receptacle... clerk is for a welder or what? me it doesn't matter I just need a 220 volt 15 amp receptacle... clerk what color? me it doesn't matter and finally he shows me where they are hiding lol
[17:10:29] <MarcelineVQ> idk about in general but aorund here a fair bit of aisle clerks are retired tradespeople, wonder if he was making sure you weren't going to burn down the house :X
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[17:15:12] <andypugh> What do you use in the US?
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[17:15:54] <andypugh> DO you get these at all? https://en.wikipedia.org
[17:17:29] <andypugh> They are widely used for stage power/lighting/audio here, which is a pretty international sort of trade, so I was wondering.
[17:18:02] <andypugh> They have the curious feature of not being waterproof, but having such long tracking distances that it doesn’t matter if they get wet.
[17:19:37] <sync> sometimes they will boil the water in them
[17:19:50] <gregcnc> normal stuff https://en.wikipedia.org
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[17:21:33] <MarcelineVQ> andypugh: had a style similar to that at our welding school, haven't seen it much in general though
[17:21:45] <CaptHindsight> JT-Fshop-: I have a few SCARA's here. Any questions?
[17:21:50] <CaptHindsight> need plans?
[17:22:00] <MarcelineVQ> Mostly just due to most stuff I see being hardwired rather thna plugged
[17:22:44] <JT-Shop> I've only seen those on equipment from europe
[17:23:04] <JT-Shop> CaptHindsight: yea that would be cool
[17:23:05] <CaptHindsight> i often have creative answers when I go to Home Depot or similar
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[17:26:56] <andypugh> gregcnc: Looking at that page you appera to have more connector types than strictly necessary?
[17:27:56] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop: https://www.3ders.org
[17:28:10] <CaptHindsight> the source files are somewhere in the links
[17:28:20] <JT-Shop> thanks
[17:28:29] <CaptHindsight> https://www.robotdigg.com
[17:29:02] <JT-Shop> yea I saw that one
[17:29:20] <JT-Shop> that looks pretty interesting
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[17:31:03] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop: http://www.harmonicdrive.net for joints
[17:31:21] <CaptHindsight> lots of harmonic drives on ebay
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[18:01:46] <jthornton> cool
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[18:26:11] <hazzy> so, did anybody go to FabTech?
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[18:28:14] <hazzy> just got back, i think its the biggest its ever been, by far
[18:29:15] <hazzy> I only managed to see about 1/4 of it, and I was cruising thru, not talking to any reps or anything
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[18:55:58] <CaptHindsight> hazzy: I've been going to shows on and off for over 30 years...
[18:56:29] <CaptHindsight> they have grown and shrink over time
[18:57:40] <CaptHindsight> i find it interesting and the more technical conferences and shows vs just sales booths
[18:57:53] <CaptHindsight> and/at
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[19:07:43] <gloops> strange phone call
[19:08:00] <gloops> i picked the phone up and some bloke says 'hey, is that Ted'
[19:11:12] <Tom_L> answer 'yes' and see where it goes
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[19:15:36] <MarcelineVQ> those tend to lead to scammer pretending to you or "I got the stuff, where do you want to meet?"
[19:15:48] <MarcelineVQ> *to know you
[19:16:33] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com
[19:17:52] <MarcelineVQ> gonna hob that shaft using an elephant?
[19:20:39] <gregcnc> andypugh, we have to keep regulators and inspectors busy
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[19:22:27] <andypugh> The EU never managed to settle on one standard. They have been trying for years
[19:23:30] <andypugh> I think that the problem was that technically the UK plug is clearly superior, but it’s so ugly and so painful to step on in the dark that it wouldn’t be accepted.
[19:30:27] Jin^eLD is now known as Jin|away
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[19:50:21] <sync> andypugh: I think a quite big part uses the schuko now
[19:51:10] <andypugh> But it isn’t a pan-EU standard
[19:51:21] <andypugh> Italy has a different one, for example
[19:51:40] <sync> in practice they have it
[19:52:05] <sync> austria too, poland, the czech republic, and a few others
[19:52:34] <andypugh> Not Poland, according to https://en.wikipedia.org
[19:52:42] <andypugh> Poland appears to be using the French one
[19:53:18] <sync> which is compatible
[19:53:32] <sync> there are very few plugs without the grounding prong hole
[19:55:58] <andypugh> After studying https://en.wikipedia.org
[19:56:11] <andypugh> I think we should all adopt the Danish one, because it looks happy.
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[20:00:41] <sync> :)
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[20:35:03] <Rab> I dunno man, look at this amazing Swiss triplex outlet: https://upload.wikimedia.org
[20:35:30] <andypugh> I did see that, and it is very pretty.
[20:37:13] <CaptHindsight> i like the UK/Hong Kong plugs
[20:37:48] <andypugh> They have many good features, such as the shuttered sockets and sleeved plugs
[20:39:12] <CaptHindsight> you only mistakenly plug your US 120V plus into a Chinese 240V outlet of the same shape once :)
[20:39:21] <CaptHindsight> plus/plug
[20:44:19] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: https://blog.cablesandkits.com
[20:44:45] <CaptHindsight> and then there are the twist and lock as well for cords
[20:45:58] <andypugh> I suspect that usage is not evenly-distributed
[20:46:19] <CaptHindsight> https://www.lockingpowercords.com(2).jpg
[20:46:44] <andypugh> So even-more of them.. crazy
[20:47:05] <CaptHindsight> the second one is generally commercial/industrial
[20:48:26] <Tom_L> most of those are twistlock right?
[20:48:28] <CaptHindsight> plus we have power available as wye or delta
[20:48:45] <CaptHindsight> the second pic is all twist and lock
[20:48:49] <Tom_L> yeah
[20:49:10] <CaptHindsight> 120/208 wye vs 120/240 delta for residential
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[20:49:57] <CaptHindsight> commercial/industrial is as above or higher voltage wye or delta
[20:50:51] <CaptHindsight> residential and farms are mostly single phase 2-pole
[20:51:15] <CaptHindsight> new high rise residential 3-phase 120/208 wye
[20:51:37] <CaptHindsight> commercial/industrial is whatever you ask for
[20:52:20] <CaptHindsight> everything older is typically delta, 80's and later wye
[20:56:28] <CaptHindsight> https://d12m281ylf13f0.cloudfront.net more fun at home
[20:57:46] <andypugh> You can’t help seeing them as faces, can you?
[20:58:29] <CaptHindsight> heh, yes and then there are places where you should see them all as faces and other areas where they are put in sideways
[20:59:03] <CaptHindsight> ungrounded to grounded changeover was in the 19070's
[20:59:29] <andypugh> UK sockets lose badly at the “looking like a face” metric
[21:00:16] <CaptHindsight> the Chicago area puts receptacles in sideways
[21:01:24] <CaptHindsight> slowly changing to the 90 deg from horizontal, ground on top
[21:02:45] <CaptHindsight> https://i.warosu.org
[21:03:27] <CaptHindsight> I have a bunch of UK to US style adapters from travel
[21:04:16] <CaptHindsight> https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com
[21:05:14] <CaptHindsight> yours make it difficult to short while plugged in
[21:06:16] <andypugh> I have one exactly like that. I don’t _quite_ understand why it allows you to conver UK to UK (but it does)
[21:07:51] <{HD}> CaptHindsight: https://i.imgur.com
[21:10:35] <CaptHindsight> {HD}: the UK version goes one step farther by insulating the prongs 1/2 from their ends
[21:10:49] <CaptHindsight> except for the ground
[21:11:18] <{HD}> Seems smart
[21:11:44] <CaptHindsight> we were the canaries
[21:12:13] <CaptHindsight> lets see what burns down in the US
[21:12:34] <CaptHindsight> ungrounded outlets, aluminum conductors, etc
[21:13:45] <andypugh> Some plugs from China also insulate the ground. Which is bad, because the socket ground contacts are a bit further forward, and so sleeved grounds (or “earth” as we call it) might not make contact at all. https://www.youtube.com
[21:19:09] <CaptHindsight> https://youtu.be didn't know Audi cheaped out on the frames
[21:23:14] <sync> I think it was their first application of cast+welded chassis pieces
[21:23:18] <andypugh> I am assuming from one bit of that that “Bob the Builder” made it to the US?
[21:24:47] <sync> andypugh: because they only need one mould to make the top part
[21:25:02] <roycroft> one thing that would make us receptacles/plugs a lot safer would be to put switches on the receptacles, like most of the civilised world do
[21:25:27] <sync> like only the uk?
[21:25:39] <roycroft> is it only the uk?
[21:25:41] <andypugh> I am not sure how common switches on the sockets are
[21:25:43] <CaptHindsight> roycroft: nah, takes up an extra space :)
[21:25:52] <sync> yes roycroft
[21:25:52] <roycroft> i thought it was pretty common outside north america
[21:25:58] <roycroft> i sit corrected
[21:26:10] <roycroft> and then i'll say that the uk are leaders in that area :)
[21:26:25] <sync> yeah, the uk system is pretty ok, although for legacy reasons
[21:26:30] <CaptHindsight> https://www.electronicproducts.com our solution :)
[21:26:30] <roycroft> somebody tell gloops i said something good about his country :P
[21:26:35] <sync> and always lurking for your feet
[21:27:13] <CaptHindsight> then you plug your 6-way receptacle into that
[21:27:42] <CaptHindsight> https://i.ytimg.com
[21:27:56] <roycroft> although the uk allow ring circuits
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[21:28:14] <sync> yes, because they needed to save copper after the war
[21:28:27] <roycroft> that may have been fine after the war
[21:28:39] <roycroft> but the war has been over for 70+ years
[21:28:44] <sync> yes
[21:28:53] <sync> but why change something that saved copper after the war?
[21:29:01] <roycroft> because it's scary?
[21:29:24] <sync> no, the system is aimed at mitigating the issues
[21:29:28] <sync> also why is it scary?
[21:29:33] <andypugh> https://www.toytowngermany.com
[21:29:35] <roycroft> we allowed aluminium wiring here in the us for a while
[21:29:41] <sync> the only thing that can happen is that a wire falls off in the middle
[21:29:44] <roycroft> now its use is extremely restricted
[21:29:48] <sync> Al wire is fine tho
[21:29:53] <andypugh> Not sure what country, but a non-UK switched socket
[21:29:59] <roycroft> sure, except it's hardly ever installed properly
[21:29:59] <sync> the GDR ran it almost exclusively
[21:30:09] <roycroft> and when it's not installed properly it's very dangerous
[21:30:25] <infornography> Hey, what is a UIO slot?
[21:30:42] <roycroft> keep in mind
[21:30:44] <roycroft> this is the usa
[21:30:51] <roycroft> buildings are hardly ever built properly
[21:30:54] <sync> maybe in low voltage high current countries, but here it wored ok
[21:31:01] <sync> ~worked
[21:31:02] <roycroft> contractors cut corners whenever they can
[21:31:47] <roycroft> and i'm not talking about working efficiently
[21:31:59] <roycroft> i'm talking about doing things they should not do if they think they can get away with it
[21:33:03] <roycroft> i wouldn't want to be a contractor in the uk though
[21:33:13] <roycroft> it's ridiculous that they have to use low voltage tools on job sites
[21:33:46] <sync> yeah it is a joke, we had that system for a while
[21:33:55] <andypugh> Hmm, only outdoors, and that’s not such an issue.
[21:34:06] <sync> interestingly Al is now found in aircraft
[21:34:12] <roycroft> yes, andypugh, and a lot of contractors have two sets of tools because of that
[21:34:16] <roycroft> outside tools and inside tools
[21:34:23] <sync> andypugh: I have seen people do that insides in the uk
[21:34:28] <roycroft> and then there's the big step-down transformer they have to lug around
[21:34:44] <andypugh> All you really need is a transformer, and those are readily available. Even I have one
[21:34:58] <infornography> The electric company used aluminum to get the power to me, why wouldn't I be able to use aluminum wiring? *thonk*
[21:35:22] <roycroft> because the power company install the drop safely
[21:35:35] <CaptHindsight> infornography: the designs for the logs proved to be poor over time
[21:35:42] <CaptHindsight> logs/lugs
[21:35:47] <andypugh> https://www.screwfix.com
[21:36:02] <sync> yeah they are cheap over there
[21:36:03] <andypugh> Fairly cheap and fairly portable.
[21:36:09] <CaptHindsight> infornography: they would vibrate loose and get hot
[21:36:17] <CaptHindsight> fire would follow
[21:36:25] <sync> ehhhh, 110V center earth?
[21:36:32] <sync> is it just an auto transformer?
[21:37:38] <andypugh> Also, they are a centre-tapped transformer too. So power-to-ground is only 55V, and you have to touch both wires to get 110V
[21:37:40] <sync> https://www.screwfix.com ??????
[21:38:07] <CaptHindsight> later, off to look into tonight's political dramas
[21:38:55] <roycroft> the only surprise today is that sessions was fired mid-day and not at 4am when trump woke up to take his morning dump and tweet
[21:40:32] <andypugh> I was impressed that Trump managed to lose one house and claim a “Big victory”
[21:40:40] <roycroft> it's his way
[21:41:12] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: nothing new there, I'd be shocked to hear any truth from him
[21:41:14] <andypugh> Yes. What really bugs me is that he only knows one superlative. “Big”.
[21:41:36] <roycroft> he likes to say "tremendous" a lot
[21:41:53] <andypugh> Why not a “great” victory? An “epic” victory?
[21:41:54] <CaptHindsight> they should not place Pelosi as Speaker
[21:41:54] <roycroft> "big" is a comparative, btw
[21:42:00] <roycroft> "biggest" is the superlative form
[21:42:04] <CaptHindsight> just harder to fix later
[21:42:26] <roycroft> i think it's time she retired as speaker
[21:42:30] <andypugh> Isn’t “bigger” the comparative?
[21:42:39] <roycroft> but she's talking about being an "interim" speaker
[21:42:41] <CaptHindsight> bigly
[21:42:44] <andypugh> If we are being pedanticer.
[21:42:45] <roycroft> yeah, sorry
[21:42:51] <roycroft> "bigger" is the comparative"
[21:43:05] <roycroft> the democratic party is changing
[21:43:09] <roycroft> rapidly
[21:43:30] <roycroft> and while pelosi has been a fine speaker and a fine party leader, it's time for a younger speaker
[21:43:36] <CaptHindsight> but her ego will swoop in and she'll be reappointed
[21:43:47] <roycroft> this year, for the first time, there were more millenials eligible to vote than baby boomers
[21:43:51] <andypugh> I think the Simpsons’ “embiggens” made is into some dictionaraies, along with “cromulent”
[21:44:08] <roycroft> and she is not a millennial
[21:44:44] <roycroft> but since she's talking about being an "interim" speaker, i'm more ok with her getting the speakership than i was
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[21:44:59] <roycroft> having an experienced speaker to stand up to the president could be a good thing
[21:45:09] <roycroft> and if she's really ready to pass the baton in a year or tow, that's fine
[21:45:43] <MarcelineVQ> "<andypugh> Yes. What really bugs me is that he only knows one superlative. “Big”." "<roycroft> he likes to say "tremendous" a lot" he's more famous for saying huge pronounced "yuge" than either of those
[21:46:02] <roycroft> you're confusing him with bernie sanders
[21:46:13] <roycroft> trump rarely says "yuge"
[21:46:28] <roycroft> bernie says it daily, at least
[21:46:46] <andypugh> Hmm, OK, so he has a more varied vocablulary than I thought, but note that all of them refer to size rather than quality.
[21:47:10] <roycroft> the president also likes to say "beautiful" a lot
[21:47:11] <MarcelineVQ> I don't think that's the case, but I've also no particular stock in the matter so I'm okay with this hehe
[21:47:54] <roycroft> so yes, he does have a vast and varied vocabulary of dozens, of not hundreds of words
[21:47:56] <roycroft> but only the best words
[21:48:04] <MarcelineVQ> :>
[21:48:08] <andypugh> The very best words
[21:48:11] <CaptHindsight> my favorite joke about the Dems :but you guys always find a way to mess it up. You’re somehow going to lose by 12 points to a guy named Jeff Pedophile Nazi Doctor.
[21:49:24] <roycroft> that's one of my biggest problems with democrats
[21:49:28] <MarcelineVQ> My favorite joke about the dems is public opinion. doh ho ho
[21:49:28] <CaptHindsight> this is the real problem, nobody is winning against stupid
[21:49:38] <roycroft> it's fine to be right on the issues and to have a good moral compass
[21:49:58] <roycroft> but if you're going to be in politics you have to be good at politics too
[21:50:07] <CaptHindsight> i think we are currently at peak stupid
[21:50:08] <roycroft> repubicans excel at politics
[21:50:29] * roycroft really really needs a new keyboard for his laptop
[21:50:34] <CaptHindsight> well higher than we have ever been before
[21:50:50] <andypugh> Anyway, time for me to dip out of a discussion where I have no interest (in the older sense of the word) and little information.
[21:51:09] <andypugh> Night all
[21:51:13] <roycroft> ciao
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[21:51:26] <CaptHindsight> how old were you when you first put a wire into a electrical socket?
[21:52:01] <CaptHindsight> <-- 6, and it was some 24ga phone wire about 12" long
[21:52:04] <MarcelineVQ> like, a bare stranded because you dind't have a plug?
[21:52:07] <HighInBC> I watched too many cartoons to do something that dumb
[21:52:39] <CaptHindsight> like when your older brother hands you 12" of wire :)
[21:53:01] <CaptHindsight> hmm, time to find out how all this works
[21:54:14] <CaptHindsight> we used to have real chems in our Chemistry kits on xmas as well
[21:54:37] <MarcelineVQ> Heck yeah, you could gellify a fish dinner with those sets
[21:54:49] <HighInBC> a scientist would ask "I wonder if it shocks me every time"
[21:54:49] <MarcelineVQ> Now it's just a litmus strip and some dirt
[21:55:12] <HighInBC> https://xkcd.com
[21:56:08] <CaptHindsight> i tripped the breaker but the insulation melted and I had a thin red line across my palm
[21:56:08] <MarcelineVQ> a genius: "Will it zap someone else?"
[21:56:19] <roycroft> yeah, i got some mercury in a chemistry set when i was a kid
[21:56:30] <roycroft> amongst other things that we know now are pretty scary
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[21:57:37] <R2E4> Hi all
[21:57:49] <CaptHindsight> me to, used to pour it into my palm to show friends
[21:57:51] <roycroft> but i remember we used to play with the mercury a lot - it was fun
[21:57:58] <roycroft> maybe that's what is wrong with me now
[21:58:04] <CaptHindsight> hehe
[21:58:13] <R2E4> just updated master and that script came up talking about JA
[21:58:16] <CaptHindsight> and the amalgam fillings
[21:58:46] <R2E4> it safe to let it do whatever it is going to do?
[21:58:59] <roycroft> amalgam fillings are perfectly safe
[21:59:04] <MarcelineVQ> there's still mercury fillings aren't there?
[21:59:04] <roycroft> until they get drilled out
[21:59:22] <roycroft> yes, they're still somewhat commonly used, marcelinevq
[21:59:33] <CaptHindsight> or you swallow pieces as they deteriorate
[21:59:34] <R2E4> I have been using master for a while, even went throught the JA stuff updates. Why is iut asking about JA again?
[21:59:59] <roycroft> i still have a couple amalgam fillings
[21:59:59] <MarcelineVQ> I didn't get them myself, but then I wasn't presented with the option for mine, whether that's cause the non are more expensive and that's how dentists roll, or what I dunno :>
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[22:00:44] <CaptHindsight> R2E4: what script?
[22:00:58] <roycroft> last time i had one drilled out they used a dental dam and lots and lots of suction, and the dentist and hygienist wore special masks
[22:01:04] <roycroft> they did not give me a special mask though
[22:01:15] <MarcelineVQ> :X
[22:01:20] <R2E4> you know when we updated to JA it wanted to auto fix your ini? That message came up again.
[22:01:23] <CaptHindsight> I'm ugly enough, i don't need a mask
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[22:02:54] <R2E4> I just passed through it. Thought it weird that script came up again.
[22:03:01] <CaptHindsight> http://www.linuxcnc.org
[22:03:40] <CaptHindsight> R2E4: as in the dev channel in 12 hours
[22:03:46] <CaptHindsight> as/ask
[22:04:17] <R2E4> CaptHindsight: I know, I did that a year ago or so when it came out. I been running master for a couple years. When I went to update tonight, and started Lcnc that old message came up....
[22:04:28] <R2E4> oops.... oh
[22:09:46] <R2E4> yeah, just got the info in the forums. Sorry should have looked there first.
[22:09:51] <R2E4> thanks CaptHindsight
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