#linuxcnc | Logs for 2018-11-22

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[00:45:33] <Lcvette> sorru internet flaked on me earlier
[00:46:00] <Lcvette> have an old dead floppy drive on a dos 6.22 system and cannot boot the machine
[00:46:33] <Lcvette> system is an 8088, non ISA, with a 3.5" floppy and a 5.25" floppy
[00:46:47] <Lcvette> both are edge card connector units
[00:47:47] <Lcvette> the board they plug into is a 34 pin that looks very much like a more modern 34 pin and i have found some edge car and IDE connector cables but im uncertain if a newer drive will work
[00:48:01] <Lcvette> and if so if there is a point at which the drives changed
[00:48:30] <Lcvette> so far the information is scattered and a bit tough to wrangle up with any confidence and i don't want to fry the computer
[00:48:56] <Lcvette> but im having some trouble finding a replacement floppy the same type as this one that doesn't cost what a core I7 machine enw would
[00:53:04] * Lcvette uploaded an image: IMG_20181120_032507089.jpg (148KB) < https://matrix.org >
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[01:31:01] <Loetmichel> Lcvette: depends: is that a 720k or an 1.44MB drive?
[01:31:19] <Lcvette> 720k
[01:31:19] <Loetmichel> if the latter it should work with any "modern" drive
[01:31:38] <Loetmichel> ups. they are a bit hard to come by these days
[01:32:03] <Lcvette> yeah
[01:32:45] <Loetmichel> usually you can read 720k disks with an 1.44 mb drive, HD drives that write DD floppies tend to have problems though
[01:33:28] <Lcvette> i was wondering if some of the Teac drives i have seen with all the jumpers on them that are configurable might be compatible
[01:33:41] <Loetmichel> its not a config problem
[01:33:53] <Loetmichel> the heads are different and use different writing currents
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[01:34:22] <Lcvette> ah
[01:34:22] <Loetmichel> reading should work OOTB but i would refrain from writing to DD disks
[01:34:37] <Loetmichel> other DD drives may have problems with it afterwards
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[01:35:21] <Lcvette> at this point all i need is to be able to boot the machine
[01:35:40] <Loetmichel> any HD drive should be able to do that
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[01:36:39] <Lcvette> i took one from a 2005 hp but the cable had some pins blocked off and would not fit on the 34 pin board on the old computer
[01:37:28] <Loetmichel> should only be one pin
[01:37:32] <Loetmichel> its the "index"
[01:37:42] <Loetmichel> its not connected on the old cables
[01:37:55] <Loetmichel> just drill out the hole in the cable and it should work
[01:37:58] <Loetmichel> the missing hole
[01:38:22] * Lcvette uploaded an image: IMG_20181120_112844438.jpg (89KB) < https://matrix.org >
[01:38:31] <Loetmichel> its meant to prevent you from accidentally flipping the cable
[01:39:06] <Lcvette> oh cool!
[01:39:22] <Lcvette> ok i will give that a try!
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[01:41:18] <Lcvette> heading out to drill it and try now!
[01:41:19] <Lcvette> lol
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[01:43:00] <miss0r> goodmorning
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[02:13:33] <Lcvette> Morning
[02:13:59] <Lcvette> Well, Loetmichel, that got me closer than I have been yet!
[02:14:15] * Lcvette uploaded an image: IMG_20181122_020110165_HDR.jpg (32KB) < https://matrix.org >
[02:14:50] <Lcvette> I was so excited I thought it was going to load and boot!
[02:15:00] <Lcvette> Then... Meh
[02:15:03] <Lcvette> Lol
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[02:26:01] <Loetmichel> Lcvette: did the motor come on?
[02:26:05] <Loetmichel> and the drive light?
[02:26:44] <Lcvette> yes, it loaded
[02:26:51] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[02:26:57] <Loetmichel> then it should read just fine
[02:26:58] <Lcvette> that splash screen is from a file
[02:27:02] <Lcvette> yes
[02:27:10] <Lcvette> i believe there is a corrupted file
[02:27:10] <Loetmichel> disk is ok?
[02:27:23] <Lcvette> well...
[02:27:25] <Lcvette> lol
[02:27:37] <Lcvette> the original disk will not even recognize
[02:27:39] <Loetmichel> could also be that its written with a slightly misalinged drive
[02:27:51] <Loetmichel> whats the problem with the original drive?
[02:28:01] <Lcvette> so i built a new dos 6.22 boot disk for it and copied over the two system files from the old bad disk
[02:28:27] <Lcvette> the drive that wrote this disk is the drive that is reading this disk
[02:28:33] <Loetmichel> ah, i see
[02:28:35] <Lcvette> lol
[02:28:44] <Lcvette> i robbed it from the old computer i used to make it
[02:28:49] <Loetmichel> disk damaged?
[02:28:59] <Loetmichel> i assume its as old as the drives?
[02:29:16] <Lcvette> disk is a new disk i had
[02:29:27] <Loetmichel> "new" from when?
[02:29:30] <Lcvette> but as crappy as they were at the end of the era that isn't saying much
[02:29:42] <Loetmichel> magnetic tape material ages even on the shelve
[02:29:46] <Lcvette> new from probably 2006ish
[02:30:04] <Loetmichel> try another one
[02:30:36] <Lcvette> im fresh out
[02:30:45] <Lcvette> need to find some more
[02:30:55] <Lcvette> but it loaded two of the files fine
[02:31:01] <Lcvette> thats what i don't understand
[02:31:10] <Lcvette> or i think i understand
[02:31:26] <Lcvette> i think that the system file it is trying to load is bad
[02:31:41] <Lcvette> not on the disk but the original
[02:31:59] <Lcvette> which is from a disk that it wouldn't read at all
[02:32:09] <Lcvette> this disk it would at least read, and begin loading msdon
[02:32:11] <Lcvette> s
[02:32:25] <Lcvette> and upon abort it gave me a prompt
[02:32:44] <Lcvette> so im guessing dos loaded just not the system software for the machine
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[02:48:48] <Loetmichel> looks like it. yes
[02:49:47] <Lcvette> software i can get
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[02:50:03] <Lcvette> hardware is another story so that was a major hurdle you helped me with!!
[02:50:08] <Lcvette> thank you!
[02:50:53] <Loetmichel> if you can: try something like that: https://www.ebay.de
[02:51:18] <Loetmichel> my pleasure
[02:51:27] <Loetmichel> i am glad if i can help
[02:51:38] <Lcvette> i figured this machine was too old for it work with
[02:51:47] <Lcvette> i looked at them
[02:51:58] <Loetmichel> it simulates the shugart bus, so it should work with any machine that uses it
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[02:57:49] <Lcvette> do i need to get the 720k version?
[03:00:48] <miss0r> my god. what sexy looking contraption is that?, Loetmichel
[03:01:20] <miss0r> wow. a floppy disk emulator, that can read USB.. :o
[03:01:28] <miss0r> I think I need to own one
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[03:34:19] <miss0r> Do any of you guys have experience with the fleabay CO2 laser cutters? Mow much do I need to dish out for one, that would not make me want to kill myslef after 5 minuts of usage?
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[04:26:51] <Loetmichel> *GNAAAA* when you dont check EVERYTHING a dell tech does... Just got a dell notebook back from a customer after he send it here for repairs (mainboard swap)... he got it back, called "yes, the bluescreens are gone... the GPU too, though!"... got the notebook back today: indeed, even the bios shows only the intel chip, not the Nvidia it has... opened it: gpu sits ok, but isnt recognized...
[04:26:52] <Loetmichel> also i found two destroyed screw heads and a FFC connector for the front leds he plugged in with the pull tab instead of the contact end of the FFC... MAAAAN....
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[04:53:47] <cpresser> miss0r: depends, afaik they all (regardless of price) come with the "LaserCut"-Software which is rather shitty. I have not seen others in the price range < 10k yet
[04:54:25] <cpresser> i have seen some that had the stop wired to the controller, not directly to an interrupter-relay that stops the laser-tube and motor.
[04:54:53] <cpresser> also the case might not be properly grounded.
[04:55:23] <cpresser> all of that can be fixed if you are fine with redoing parts of the wiring
[04:56:03] <cpresser> there is also linuxcnc support for lasers-cutters with raster engraving. but not easy-to-use toolchain for combined vector-cut and engraving that I am aware of
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[05:29:03] <XXCoder> hey all
[05:41:40] <jthornton> morning
[05:42:15] <XXCoder> yo
[05:43:35] <XXCoder> I see youre starting to update docs. nice
[05:44:55] <jthornton> yea I pushed the 2.7 config yesterday going to push the 2.8 version after testing this morning then on to the documents
[05:47:14] <XXCoder> after some thinking I really like the "workaround" I used better than proper way (length, diameter of tool)
[05:47:32] <XXCoder> because it will show physical tool, even if there is no d, and no h
[05:47:55] <XXCoder> if h is not used then tooltip would be still be at cat30 so it would show that program would crash a tool
[05:48:43] <XXCoder> so it would visualize machine tool much better
[05:50:47] <jthornton> I'll have to look when I wake up lol I never use G43 Hn I just use G43
[05:51:25] <XXCoder> hmm interesting. what happens if just g43? does it get default height, aka same number as tool in holder?
[05:52:24] <jthornton> it uses the tool that is loaded with Tn M6
[05:53:02] <XXCoder> yeah thats what I meant by toold in holder though wrong words
[05:53:11] <XXCoder> lemme test that
[05:53:56] <XXCoder> gonna edit file to load xed not gcode
[05:54:01] <XXCoder> err gedit
[05:55:43] <XXCoder> okay edited cds to load t3 and just use g43.
[05:56:09] <XXCoder> its interesting that cds do not use tool diameter d
[05:57:55] <jthornton> cds?
[05:58:11] <XXCoder> cds.ngc the circle diamond square gcode example
[05:59:15] <XXCoder> g43 worked. interesting. its running tool 3 which is long and slender tool
[05:59:34] <jthornton> ah, I have not looked at the sample G code in a long time... interesting that the splash code is finally made to run lol
[05:59:53] <XXCoder> isnt it always have worked?
[06:00:00] <XXCoder> I have used linuxcnc engrave so many times
[06:00:35] <jthornton> no it has never worked unless you jog z down then touch off... some silly idea that you need to do that in real life so the sim must be the same
[06:00:54] <XXCoder> oh
[06:01:07] <jthornton> so IMHO a bad first example for someone that knows nothing
[06:01:24] <XXCoder> so it has bypass for sim?
[06:01:43] <jthornton> new code in the coop is working again lol broke it this morning
[06:02:16] <jthornton> no, someone just moved the z down so it did not error out
[06:02:33] <XXCoder> pretty simple fix
[06:03:07] <XXCoder> whats good example gcode that uses tool comp?
[06:03:10] <XXCoder> diamter
[06:03:17] <jthornton> yea when newbee's start LinuxCNC they want to run the sample code
[06:03:21] <XXCoder> i wanna see how rolfmill reacts with it
[06:03:46] <jthornton> dunno grep for g40
[06:03:53] <XXCoder> ok
[06:04:05] <jthornton> or g41 g42 maybe
[06:05:16] <jthornton> now I think the nc_files directory is a bit silly with all the links
[06:05:32] <XXCoder> theres also so many examples that dont really tell me anythinbg
[06:05:44] <XXCoder> maybe need some directory refactoring
[06:05:53] <XXCoder> like "machine test" and "visual examples"
[06:06:22] <jthornton> looks like grep returned a lot of ngc files with g41
[06:06:34] <jthornton> I use grep -irl 'g41' *
[06:06:41] <XXCoder> cool
[06:06:54] <XXCoder> recrusive list whats i? insensive?
[06:07:29] <XXCoder> insensive case
[06:07:32] <jthornton> yea returns caps and lowercase
[06:07:36] <XXCoder> cool
[06:08:00] <jthornton> that returns a list of each file where search is found
[06:14:55] <XXCoder> lol comp-g1.ngc is broken
[06:15:09] <XXCoder> it requires postive coord as it doesnt even use any coord g code like g54
[06:22:02] <XXCoder> "stright feed in concave corner cannot be reached by the tool without gouging"
[06:22:24] <XXCoder> interesting error when I add g41 to cds.ngc
[06:28:27] <XXCoder> finally found one http://www.helmancnc.com
[06:30:03] <XXCoder> broken example vbut easy enough to fix
[06:37:20] <XXCoder> very broken example
[06:37:26] <XXCoder> had to virtually rewrite it
[06:40:36] <Tom_L> morning
[06:40:44] <XXCoder> jthornton: where is 2.8 version? I tried editing url from 2.7 to 2.8 but didnt work
[06:41:08] <Tom_L> http://linuxcnc.org
[06:41:11] <Tom_L> docs?
[06:41:25] <XXCoder> thanks
[06:42:38] <XXCoder> tom jt got copy of rolfmill (vismach I created) so he could read my long and bad grammar filled comments in it
[06:42:52] <XXCoder> so he can figure what im saying and update docs
[06:43:00] <Tom_L> i was aware he was adding it to the docs
[06:43:08] <XXCoder> also add rolfmill as example machine I think
[06:47:16] <Tom_L> jthornton, what tool do you select when you use G43 without an H word?
[06:47:27] <XXCoder> the current tool
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[07:00:42] <jthornton> sorry in another window working on my new chicken door code it opens in 18 minutes or not lol
[07:01:05] <XXCoder> no plm, what bug was it anyway
[07:02:31] <jthornton> using my new code for the first time the one that does the light based on hours of daylight etc.
[07:03:05] <XXCoder> ahh yea
[07:03:28] <XXCoder> am I misremembering that you said you will add rolfmach as sim example?
[07:04:12] <jthornton> I've added it to 2.7 yesterday and will do 2.8 today
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[07:04:26] <XXCoder> cool :)
[07:04:37] <jthornton> after the chicken door is proven or not lol
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[07:04:50] <XXCoder> i hope it helps lot people
[07:05:04] <XXCoder> too work is still very ill defined.
[07:15:30] <jthornton> 3 minutes... till the door works or not lol
[07:15:58] <XXCoder> my prediction: door opens sideways and fog comes out
[07:15:59] <jthornton> silly the splash code was fixed to run but the comments were not changed...
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[07:16:22] <jthornton> if it opens sideways we are all in big trouble lol
[07:16:35] <XXCoder> yep lol
[07:17:12] <jthornton> running RolfMill in 2.8 while I wait
[07:17:38] <jthornton> I wonder how you put a title on the tk window?
[07:17:47] <XXCoder> I wish I knew
[07:18:04] <XXCoder> i think no example actually does it?
[07:18:54] <jthornton> ohh the lights came on and the door is opening
[07:19:03] <XXCoder> and no fog?
[07:19:19] <XXCoder> oh well I totally missed on my guess lol
[07:22:30] <jthornton> all right no more messing with that code until after sunrise... don't want the lights blinking
[07:28:06] <jthornton> https://github.com
[07:28:46] <jthornton> https://github.com
[07:33:29] <jthornton> now to do the docs... and it's full of first person narration...
[07:33:59] <XXCoder> looking
[07:34:20] <XXCoder> nice
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[07:44:06] <XXCoder> oops 193 is still wrong word
[07:44:11] <XXCoder> *line 193
[07:44:28] <XXCoder> xassembly not xbase
[07:50:40] <jthornton> copy paste error too many copies lol
[07:50:44] <jthornton> fixed
[07:50:54] <XXCoder> no plm lol
[07:51:27] <XXCoder> need to uncomment last line in HAL in 2.,8 version
[07:51:31] <jthornton> just now trying to sort out the last line and wondering how the primitives are created in relation to lat and lon?
[07:51:41] <XXCoder> oh thats just view
[07:51:49] <XXCoder> picture this
[07:51:59] <XXCoder> the model zero zero zero is what camera is looking at
[07:52:19] <XXCoder> first camera parameter is how far away camera is from 0 0 0
[07:52:26] <jthornton> what lat and lon is the initial part made at?
[07:52:33] <XXCoder> last 2 is sphere coordate
[07:52:45] <jthornton> I figured out the last line zoom, lat, and lon
[07:52:46] <XXCoder> like earth long and latatude
[07:52:50] <jthornton> yea
[07:53:09] <XXCoder> model and view is nicely seperated
[07:53:39] <XXCoder> so you just need to worry where zeros is since tooltip is there initially, and zassembly is built at very specific place so motion is correctly done
[07:54:10] <XXCoder> in fact x and y is also same, just that it is already at 0 on respective axis so not needed a move
[07:55:57] <XXCoder> line 229 is where I start to explain about how to arrange z
[07:57:32] <XXCoder> oh hmm tool length might not work in 2.8 since s.poll() is commented in 2.8 version
[07:57:37] <XXCoder> did you test it?
[07:57:49] <jthornton> somewhat yes
[07:58:33] <XXCoder> really all it does is make sure table is updated so usually someone dont change tool table in middle of run anyway
[07:59:02] <XXCoder> maybe I am wrong on requiring a update in first place lemme test 2,7
[07:59:27] <jthornton> yea I just loaded a tool in 2.8 with no problem it shows up correctly
[07:59:43] <XXCoder> testing what happens if tool length is changed
[08:00:24] <jthornton> is shows a move
[08:00:45] <XXCoder> 2.7 it doesnt show if s.poll() is disabled. lemme check table
[08:02:52] <XXCoder> yep it doesnt. strange!
[08:03:07] <XXCoder> tested with it enabled and disabled
[08:03:14] <XXCoder> tool only show up with s.poll()
[08:03:24] <XXCoder> I guess 2.8 acts differently
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[08:10:50] <XXCoder> welcome back
[08:11:55] <jthornton> where did I go?
[08:12:07] <XXCoder> meanie peer kicked you
[08:15:36] <XXCoder> someone said someone was looking for vismach example but forgot who
[08:15:54] <weenerdog> goooood mawnin
[08:15:56] <XXCoder> i was already planning to make one weeks ago but it took me this long to get willpower up
[08:16:06] <XXCoder> glad its... mostly done now
[08:16:18] <XXCoder> people can use other examples for stl import and such I guess
[08:24:15] <weenerdog> i'm reading about stl. series of dumb ass questions to follow :>
[08:25:13] * jthornton goes to shower while the docs build
[08:28:08] <weenerdog> stl is the format expected by vismach?
[08:28:31] <XXCoder> i havent really researched into that, i went all standard shapes in rolfmach
[08:28:38] <XXCoder> er rolfmill
[08:28:58] <XXCoder> I think 2 formats is allowed, obj and stl
[08:29:25] <XXCoder> there is couple good examples like hbmgui
[08:30:18] <XXCoder> maybe not that one
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[08:31:25] <weenerdog> i snarfed up a 20" touch screen for $5 at a thrift store yestiddy for my linuxcnc box so i'll install that probably tonight and get to work with it
[08:31:35] <XXCoder> wow
[08:31:39] <XXCoder> that is nice
[08:31:56] <XXCoder> I want a nice controls screen with kmobs switches etc
[08:32:02] <XXCoder> I hate using keyboard for cnc
[08:32:08] <XXCoder> spoiled by machines at work I guess
[08:32:11] <weenerdog> 1680x1050 too
[08:32:28] <weenerdog> ya i saw it and wagged my tail lol
[08:32:58] <XXCoder> part = AsciiOBJ(filename="path/to/OBJ_file.obj")
[08:33:36] <XXCoder> stl and obj should be approately placed so you can easily set halmotion for it, and if needed, translate it afterwards
[08:35:13] <XXCoder> stl version part = AsciiSTL(filename="path/to/file.stl)
[08:40:19] <weenerdog> i think i'll be smarter by the time i am slangin sawdust with this
[09:15:52] gonzo_- is now known as gonzo_
[09:44:14] <Loetmichel> Anyone an idea what the dark violet coating on tungsten carbide tools is called?
[09:45:33] <Rab> Loetmichel, like this? http://en.northtungsten.com
[09:45:51] <Rab> I assumed it was some kind of heat treatment.
[09:46:29] <Tom_L> Titanium Aluminum Nitride
[09:47:14] <Rab> https://en.wikipedia.org
[09:47:19] <Rab> huh
[09:48:19] <Loetmichel> thanx, thats it
[09:48:45] <Tom_L> https://www.hannibalcarbide.com
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[10:27:32] <hazzy-m> Happy Thanksgiving to yall in the US
[10:27:44] <Lcvette> HappybThanksgiving!
[10:28:07] <Lcvette> \where are you?
[10:29:14] <Lcvette> Loetmichel: im looking at those floppy to usb converters and there are a ton of different ones,
[10:29:33] <Lcvette> any ideas on one from the states i should focus on to try?
[10:30:19] <gregcnc> are you forced to use one of those?
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[10:30:43] <Lcvette> looking that way
[10:30:48] <gregcnc> old machine?
[10:30:53] <Lcvette> yes
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[10:31:18] <gregcnc> no DNC?
[10:31:30] <Lcvette> 8088, non isa, dos, edge card 3.5" is bad and the 5.25.. well i don't have anything to write or read those
[10:31:37] <Lcvette> 8-bit
[10:31:50] <gregcnc> ah
[10:31:56] <Lcvette> soooo....
[10:31:59] <Lcvette> lol
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[10:32:22] <Lcvette> yeah i need some way to boot and some way to test loading some code
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[10:33:47] <gregcnc> i was looking at those last year, but ended up just getting USB floppy drive to output files
[10:34:40] <Lcvette> ?
[10:34:43] <Lcvette> whats that?
[10:35:07] <Lcvette> oh usb floppy drive for newer computer
[10:35:09] <Loetmichel> gregcnc: that doesent help Lcvette. he needs the 2,5" to boot from it
[10:35:14] <Loetmichel> 3,5"
[10:35:15] <gregcnc> correct
[10:35:15] <Lcvette> yeah i got one of those too
[10:35:57] <gregcnc> those floppy emulators are priced all over the place, CNC co will charge 500+USD
[10:36:05] * Loetmichel has the opposite problem: customer wants 3,5" floppy on a new PC...
[10:36:31] <Loetmichel> had to mill an enclosure to mount an external USB floppy drive into an 3,5" slot...
[10:36:50] <Lcvette> that is an easier solution
[10:36:50] <Lcvette> lol
[10:37:15] <gregcnc> there are internal usb floppy?
[10:37:22] <Loetmichel> not any more
[10:37:28] <gregcnc> ebay
[10:37:47] * Lcvette uploaded an image: IMG_20181122_103720230.jpg (25KB) < https://matrix.org >
[10:37:47] <gregcnc> china junk, maybe they suck
[10:38:06] <Loetmichel> IBMs server division was the last one that produced one. and they discontinued it long ago
[10:38:29] <Lcvette> epson smd-400
[10:39:32] <gregcnc> the drive is bad or what is that some kind of adapter?
[10:39:50] <Lcvette> lol
[10:39:51] <Lcvette> exactly
[10:40:00] <Lcvette> that my friend is the old style connector
[10:40:04] <Lcvette> pre IDE
[10:40:13] <Lcvette> called an edge card connector
[10:40:19] <gregcnc> hoyl shit I've never even seen one
[10:40:39] <Lcvette> right!
[10:40:54] <Lcvette> welcome to the world of wtf can be done
[10:41:02] <Lcvette> lol
[10:41:17] <gregcnc> my quesiton is always, how have others solved it?
[10:41:36] <Lcvette> mine too
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[10:41:52] <Lcvette> so i said easy no problem hop on the google
[10:42:03] <Lcvette> and i head to the vintage forums
[10:42:17] <Lcvette> and i get reactions like yours
[10:42:37] <Lcvette> and then it hits me... the resource pool of knowledge available on this issue may be finite
[10:43:09] <Lcvette> in order to copy one, must be able to find one to copy
[10:43:10] <Lcvette> lol
[10:43:19] <Lcvette> so far not much luck
[10:44:02] <Loetmichel> yeah, the ones like me that still have an 8" floppy drive in the cellar and have used it are dying off
[10:44:49] <Lcvette> i think the fact that its soo old and the fact that the machine mfg'er kind of Loetmichel has been the most valuable resourse so far
[10:44:54] <Lcvette> :D
[10:45:32] <gregcnc> what machine is this?
[10:46:12] <Lcvette> the little Rhino ST8 cnc slant bed lathe i picked up
[10:46:49] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[10:47:02] <Loetmichel> it should be relatively easy to fit a new drive in there
[10:47:05] <Loetmichel> "new"
[10:47:24] <gregcnc> so no spare 3.5" to try in there?
[10:47:26] <Loetmichel> maybe your "new" drive and/or your disks are bad?
[10:47:34] <Loetmichel> gregcnc: he already did
[10:47:38] <gregcnc> ok
[10:47:49] <Loetmichel> read command.com then crapped out at the other files
[10:47:52] <Loetmichel> read errors
[10:48:05] <gregcnc> a while ago i had a bunch of bad 3.5" that worked a few years prior
[10:48:27] <Loetmichel> thats why i suggested to get such a floppy emulator if he can get the files off the disks he uses
[10:48:35] <Lcvette> right
[10:48:43] <Lcvette> we think we got the read sorted
[10:49:00] <Lcvette> but that only buys me the abilkity to boot the system
[10:49:08] <Lcvette> but then i need a second drive to be able to write
[10:49:16] <Lcvette> ie load code
[10:49:30] <Loetmichel> two floppy emulators ;)
[10:49:45] <Loetmichel> one for boot, one for the data stick
[10:49:49] <Lcvette> yes but which ones?
[10:49:52] <Lcvette> there are hundreds
[10:50:09] <Loetmichel> i would try the cheapest ones
[10:50:15] <Lcvette> i got confused trying to find the right one to order, they all say they are for different things
[10:50:22] <Loetmichel> they all should work and you dont need much features
[10:50:35] <Loetmichel> or use the serial connection to transfer programs to it
[10:50:55] <Lcvette> ?
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[10:51:10] <Lcvette> it does have an rs-232 on the back that says punch
[10:51:12] <Lcvette> lol
[10:51:17] <Lcvette> guessing for a punch reader
[10:51:26] <Loetmichel> usually those old machines have a com port that can be used to get Gcode into the machine
[10:51:34] <Loetmichel> indeed
[10:51:53] <Loetmichel> in the old days we used paper tape to program the machines
[10:52:15] <Lcvette> i learned on a paper eater
[10:52:27] <Loetmichel> would be a nice project to make a punch tape "writer" for a modern pc with USB connector ;)
[10:52:29] <Lcvette> but didn't know how the internals worked
[10:52:50] <Loetmichel> simple, really
[10:52:53] <Lcvette> https://www.ebay.com
[10:53:01] <Lcvette> spendy
[10:53:48] <Loetmichel> such a punch rader is just a bunch (7 iirc) light switches and a shift register
[10:54:10] <Loetmichel> load parallel, send serial, transport tape one step, load parallel......
[10:54:12] <Loetmichel> and so on
[10:55:16] <Loetmichel> Lcvette: How about to get that lathe converted to linuxCNC?
[10:55:26] <Lcvette> oh going too!
[10:55:28] <Loetmichel> could be less hassle than to get the old thing running
[10:55:38] <Lcvette> but i would like to get it fired up and see what works
[10:55:49] <Lcvette> it will determine my retrofit plans
[10:55:54] <Lcvette> it is a servo driven machine
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[10:56:14] <Lcvette> but they are some funny servo drives that require pwm
[10:56:31] <Lcvette> which requires some funny mesa cards besides the normal ones im used too
[10:56:38] <gregcnc> pwm is not that uncommon
[10:56:48] <Lcvette> so i hate to start buying special stuff without knowing if the drives actually work
[10:57:07] <Lcvette> it is if i were to try and buy updated servos
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[10:57:29] <Lcvette> meaning the new drives would not work with the pwm board setup
[10:57:37] <Lcvette> just trying to assess the machine
[10:58:01] <Lcvette> the turret
[10:58:06] <Lcvette> spindle drive and motor
[10:58:06] <Loetmichel> yes, or use the old drivers and adapt them to a new system
[10:58:08] <Lcvette> power
[10:58:37] <Lcvette> if i updated the system, i would update the whole system with more modern hardware
[10:58:58] <Lcvette> if i decide to leave it instact i will leave it mainly stock and intact with very little hardware changes
[10:59:18] <Lcvette> the existing servos are 500 line encoder units and VERY small and tucked away
[10:59:26] * Loetmichel did convert a big brake disc grinder from curve controlled to PcNC and siemens ac drives a few decades back
[10:59:30] <Loetmichel> that was fun
[10:59:30] <Lcvette> they cannot even be replaced now days i don't think
[10:59:39] <Loetmichel> all parts from ebay...
[11:00:04] <Loetmichel> first time i saw a 3kw servo motor jump 2 feet up from its pallet while testing ;)
[11:00:05] <gregcnc> How small could they be form early 80's?
[11:00:41] <Loetmichel> gregcnc: yopu would be surprised
[11:00:45] <FinboySlick> About the size of a walkman! *queue synth music*
[11:00:52] <gregcnc> lol
[11:01:02] <Loetmichel> i have seen 50 years old DC servos about the sije of a fist that could do about 1kW
[11:01:09] <FinboySlick> Damn I miss the 80s.
[11:01:21] <Lcvette> 1/10hp 54mm round no square flange
[11:01:22] <FinboySlick> Cocaine and naiveté.
[11:01:46] <Lcvette> and they packed them in such a tight space there is no room
[11:01:50] <Lcvette> pic uploading
[11:01:50] <gregcnc> 2" encoder is small?
[11:02:12] <Lcvette> thats the servo size
[11:02:13] * Lcvette uploaded an image: IMG_20181118_193215568.jpg (1362KB) < https://matrix.org >
[11:03:49] <gregcnc> those machines have round linear guides?
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[11:04:20] * Lcvette uploaded an image: ymail-tmp-777959756.jpg (35KB) < https://matrix.org >
[11:05:01] <Lcvette> they used Thomson Linear stages
[11:05:21] <Lcvette> I HATE round guides, but these are pretty beefy as they go
[11:05:34] <Lcvette> they are full length of the table
[11:05:51] <gregcnc> I did not know.
[11:06:22] <Lcvette> me either until i pulled her skirts back
[11:07:13] <gregcnc> finding motors wouldn't be tough, but a huge pain. But you could easily replace the drives with some cheap analog drive
[11:07:48] <Lcvette> yeah but 500line encoders?
[11:08:13] <Lcvette> kinda weak
[11:08:16] <gregcnc> screw pitch? any reduction?
[11:08:22] <Lcvette> .200"
[11:08:28] <Lcvette> belt reduction
[11:08:32] <gregcnc> teaching machine need not be very accurate
[11:08:39] <gregcnc> ratio?
[11:08:40] <Lcvette> exsactly
[11:09:05] <gregcnc> that's why I like the Emco this size
[11:10:24] * Lcvette uploaded an image: IMG_20181119_025052830.jpg (30KB) < https://matrix.org >
[11:10:40] <Lcvette> D1-4 spindle
[11:10:45] <Lcvette> 1.5" spindle bore
[11:10:51] <Lcvette> 5" chuck
[11:11:15] <jthornton> nice size bore
[11:11:35] <jthornton> does it have a tail stock?
[11:11:38] <Lcvette> machine weighs in at 707lbs
[11:11:43] <Lcvette> 797lbs
[11:12:08] <Lcvette> its heavy for a small machine
[11:12:10] <gregcnc> it can't be terrible
[11:12:22] <Lcvette> no
[11:12:27] <gregcnc> unfortunate that there is so little about them online
[11:12:33] <Lcvette> i think it will be a cool little machine
[11:12:38] <gregcnc> they probably made 3 or 4
[11:12:45] <Lcvette> lol
[11:12:54] <gregcnc> Like the dumb lathe I ended up with
[11:13:06] <Lcvette> they made a bunch, the problem is that they made them so long ago and stopped making them so long ago that there are very few around
[11:13:19] <Lcvette> i too love the emco's
[11:13:28] <Lcvette> but this one popped up so i jumped on it
[11:13:42] <Lcvette> i got it for $995 shipped
[11:13:53] <gregcnc> I think i bid on a rhino at gov auction while I was shopping for mine
[11:13:56] <Lcvette> intact and unmolested
[11:14:26] <jthornton> damn that's cheap to include shipping for 800 pounds of steel
[11:15:00] <Lcvette> was cheap because the whole thing fit on a 48x40 pallet..lol
[11:15:21] <Lcvette> the guy who shipped it is a professional too, it was packaged like a boss
[11:15:33] <Lcvette> think he said shipping came to $297
[11:15:41] <Lcvette> when i got it it was rough looking
[11:15:54] <Lcvette> had a coat of surface rust on it
[11:15:55] <Lcvette> had to clean it up
[11:16:17] <Lcvette> a cable was broken and the monitor was broken
[11:16:24] <Lcvette> but i found both of those cheap fortunately
[11:16:29] <Lcvette> under $50
[11:16:55] <Lcvette> so if i could get it fired up and have a running machine for under $1100.. i would say thats a win
[11:17:31] <gregcnc> .0001" axis resolution is decent
[11:17:57] <Lcvette> yeah but backlash from the belt drive im sure
[11:18:11] <Lcvette> if i convert it I would go direct drive
[11:18:18] <Lcvette> think it would be the easiest
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[11:18:25] <gregcnc> if there is space
[11:18:30] <Lcvette> there is
[11:18:48] <Lcvette> room for a 200w servo above the X
[11:18:55] <Lcvette> and plenty of room on the Z
[11:18:55] <gregcnc> then why didn't they build it that way?
[11:19:18] <Lcvette> probably because of the type motors they used
[11:19:32] <Lcvette> the drives and everything are proprietary
[11:19:44] <Lcvette> so they probably used really small motors for a reason
[11:20:04] <gregcnc> same reason emco does, so a crash doesn't explode the machine
[11:20:06] <Lcvette> the motors they uised are long and skinny they wouldn't fit
[11:20:32] <Lcvette> they would hit the inside of the cabinet
[11:20:45] <Lcvette> but a 200w DMM servo has a mounted length of 97mm
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[11:20:56] <Lcvette> and gives about 12mm of clesarance back there
[11:21:12] <Lcvette> and should be plenty of power to move the x axis i would think
[11:22:13] * Lcvette uploaded an image: IMG_20181115_184635.jpg (19KB) < https://matrix.org >
[11:22:23] <Lcvette> came with this chuck too
[11:22:26] <Lcvette> :D
[11:23:24] * Lcvette uploaded an image: scv_1542431242230801264445-1.jpg (29KB) < https://matrix.org >
[11:23:36] <Lcvette> has room to fit this motor too
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[11:24:58] <gregcnc> existing spindle motor power?
[11:25:07] <Lcvette> .5
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[11:25:34] <Lcvette> new motor would be a vector duty 1.5hp 3ph AC
[11:26:04] <Lcvette> 1000:1 constant torque
[11:27:51] * Lcvette uploaded an image: Rhino ST8 CNC Lathe 1.png (932KB) < https://matrix.org >
[11:28:34] <gregcnc> is it set up for coolant?
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[11:29:11] <Lcvette> quasi yes
[11:30:06] <Lcvette> has a coolant output in the controller, and has a drain panel in the bottom of the cabinet, but the cabinet would need to be sealed i think
[11:30:41] <Loetmichel> <- waiting for end of work day... miscalculated again how long the part will run on the CNC
[11:31:35] <Lcvette> does your cam not give you machining times?
[11:32:18] <Loetmichel> nope
[11:32:59] <Loetmichel> only half an hour overtime though
[11:33:05] <Loetmichel> and its close to finished
[11:33:10] <Lcvette> not too bad
[11:33:38] <Loetmichel> a few 100 heagonal holes take a while.... ;)
[11:33:49] <Loetmichel> https://www.youtube.com
[11:34:50] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org - making PC enclosures :-)
[11:34:51] <gregcnc> what size tooling fits that turret?
[11:34:53] <Lcvette> lol.. you gotta put a hula skirt on the monitor and give it a funny screen saver face
[11:35:04] <Loetmichel> indeed
[11:35:06] <Lcvette> us 1/2"
[11:35:37] <Loetmichel> its quite full inside those boxes: http://www.cyrom.org
[11:36:19] <Lcvette> nice!!
[11:36:40] <Lcvette> you got it packed in there nicely
[11:36:52] <Lcvette> i like the cooling fan
[11:36:57] <gregcnc> 1/2 hp just isn't much power. I'd be doing an retrofit for that reason alone, unless i could hack a way to get a bigger motor in there
[11:37:27] <Lcvette> motor will fit no problem
[11:37:34] <Lcvette> spindle control is pwm
[11:37:59] <Lcvette> so a spinx4 pwm to analog converter from mesa would do the trick
[11:38:13] <Lcvette> or if the drive could work with a pwm signal
[11:38:20] <gregcnc> I think a lot of vfd take pwm
[11:38:46] <Lcvette> the belt drive has three steps
[11:38:55] <Lcvette> fastest is a 1:1
[11:39:03] <Lcvette> so there is again alot of reduction there
[11:39:11] <Lcvette> think the slowest is 3:1
[11:39:31] <Tom_L> Lcvette so this is an 8088 you're trying to find a 3.5" floppy for?
[11:39:37] <Tom_L> do you need the card as well?
[11:39:43] <Lcvette> it also had an optional pneumatic chuck and pneumatic collet
[11:39:43] <gregcnc> I don't think I would bother with belt changes
[11:40:05] <Lcvette> Tom_L: yes
[11:40:06] <gregcnc> does it have an actuator?
[11:40:09] <Tom_L> i think i still have a couple old 5.25 drives too
[11:40:29] <Tom_L> and it takes the card edge connector instead of the pin style?
[11:40:32] <Lcvette> no to the card
[11:40:35] <Lcvette> card is fine floppy is not working
[11:40:39] <Lcvette> yes
[11:41:01] <Tom_L> so all you need is a 3.5" floppy with a card edge connector or a ribbon to convert it to pin
[11:42:04] * Loetmichel has about 1000 ribbon cables here with 3*34 pin and 2*edge
[11:42:11] <Lcvette> last night Loetmichel told me to drill the blocked pin on the ribbon for my newer floppy and i did and it seemed to be able to read but now i have a software issue i am trying to resolve
[11:42:23] <Lcvette> need to get good files
[11:42:28] <Tom_L> what sort of software issue?
[11:42:33] <Tom_L> dos?
[11:42:42] <Lcvette> no the dos is fine i think
[11:42:43] <Loetmichel> read errors
[11:42:51] <Lcvette> its a fresh install of 6.22
[11:43:00] <Lcvette> its the actual machine software
[11:43:09] * Tom_L puts his 1.2 dos away
[11:43:10] <Lcvette> that the system boots into
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[11:43:30] <gregcnc> did you find anyone who knows about this machine specifically?
[11:43:33] <Lcvette> but a few nights ago i wrestled with dos
[11:43:49] <Lcvette> yes i found a gentleman who has been a bunch of help
[11:44:20] <Lcvette> he is AWESOME with these machines and he is awesome with old schoole hardware and software
[11:44:27] <Lcvette> but he is not so much with newer hardware and software
[11:44:56] <Lcvette> and i find that he sometimes draws hard lines in the sand where there should not be
[11:45:14] <Lcvette> where he will say, No it won't work
[11:45:20] <Lcvette> then i find it will work etc
[11:45:37] <Tom_L> he's used to his old tools
[11:45:39] <Lcvette> such as when we were trying to make a dos boot disk
[11:45:58] <Lcvette> he said we couldn't boot into dos from a dvd
[11:46:03] <Lcvette> but then we did
[11:46:04] <Lcvette> lol
[11:46:15] <Tom_L> back then you didn't have modern pcs that could do that for you
[11:46:24] <Lcvette> yeah
[11:46:49] <Lcvette> he told me the usb to floppy emulator wouldn't work on that machine and rattles of tons of information and sounds very convincing
[11:46:58] <Lcvette> so of coure i took it at face value
[11:47:09] <Tom_L> i doubt you could boot from it
[11:47:43] <Lcvette> but now Loetmichel says it should work and he was also right about the more modern floppyn being able to read.. so im getting mismatched information from my Rhino guy
[11:48:09] <Lcvette> boot from what?
[11:48:15] <Tom_L> the usb emulator
[11:48:17] <Lcvette> i mean on a mdoern machine
[11:48:42] <Tom_L> i almost needed one a while back but resoldered the MB instead and all is good again
[11:48:58] <Tom_L> memory & drive connectors were starting to fail
[11:49:43] <Tom_L> i think i still have my first 8088 pc somewhere..
[11:50:07] <Lcvette> nice!
[11:50:26] <Tom_L> not sure i have a cga monitior
[11:50:37] <Tom_L> or monochrome
[11:52:21] <Lcvette> this is monochrome
[11:52:33] <Lcvette> i just got an updated machine file to try
[11:52:59] <allibgbg> hello
[11:53:00] <Lcvette> gonna go give it a whirl
[11:53:07] <Tom_L> good luck
[11:53:28] <allibgbg> Is anybody using bCNC ? i m having some troubles getting started
[11:53:44] <Tom_L> never heard of it
[11:53:51] <allibgbg> I put a dremel on my Itopie 3d printer
[11:54:18] <allibgbg> it is a smoothie clone board
[11:54:46] <Tom_L> it doesn't generate gcode
[11:54:58] <Tom_L> looks like it's just a gui for grbl
[11:55:19] <jthornton> is that a Mack tree thing?
[11:55:31] <Tom_L> https://github.com
[11:55:32] <gregcnc> looks like grbl machine control
[11:55:59] <allibgbg> yes it is
[11:56:04] <allibgbg> grbl
[11:56:14] <allibgbg> i used MeshCAM6
[11:56:23] <allibgbg> to generate reprap gcode
[11:56:30] <allibgbg> .nc
[11:56:49] <allibgbg> do you know other grbl softwares ?
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[11:57:25] <gregcnc> no
[12:02:53] <Tom_L> you could also ask in #robotics
[12:03:08] <allibgbg> thanks
[12:03:18] <Tom_L> however one that might know is at work right now
[12:03:33] <jthornton> ChunkinPunkin? lol
[12:03:39] <Tom_L> oh hell no
[12:03:44] <jthornton> lol
[12:03:57] <Tom_L> he did finally get something cut i think
[12:04:18] <Tom_L> slowed the feed down like we kept telling him
[12:04:22] <jthornton> that was the only person I've ever put on ignore lol
[12:04:43] <Tom_L> being an op in other channels i don't feel like i should
[12:05:34] <Tom_L> happy thanksgiving btw..
[12:05:48] <Roguish> yoh, happy Holidaze all.
[12:05:53] <jthornton> happy thanksgiving to all too
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[12:06:21] <jthornton> after all we ate while on vacation I'm thinking a turkey sandwich without the bread for today lol
[12:06:35] <Tom_L> no turkey here
[12:06:49] <Tom_L> i don't think anybody cares for it that much
[12:06:55] <Roguish> putting an expensive prime rib roast in the oven for slow cooking......
[12:06:57] <jthornton> we are having shrimp and salad here
[12:07:22] <Tom_L> all the rest of the goodies but ham instead
[12:07:30] <allibgbg> belgium here, nothing special, bars waiting
[12:07:33] <jthornton> I'm picking up a 1 1/2" thick porterhouse for saturday
[12:07:49] <jthornton> I like ham much better than turkey
[12:07:57] <Tom_L> i saw a guy walk out of sams the other day with what looked like a 2" cut
[12:08:12] <jthornton> wow that's huge
[12:08:14] <Tom_L> they'll cut whatever you want if you ask
[12:08:32] <jthornton> yea we have a local butcher shop here
[12:08:36] <Tom_L> yeah almost too thick
[12:08:58] <jthornton> a 1 1/2" thick will make a bunch of meals for us lol
[12:09:22] <Tom_L> i've still got 2 boys at home
[12:09:26] <Tom_L> it goes quick
[12:09:32] <jthornton> I bet
[12:09:59] <jthornton> it's been a while since we picked up a porterhouse
[12:10:00] <Roguish> there's a pretty good real butcher shop in our local grocery chain.
[12:10:06] <Tom_L> once they leave i'll feel like i won the lottery
[12:10:13] <jthornton> yup
[12:11:12] * jthornton wanders out to stoke the fires in the shops and then take a nap
[12:11:31] <weenerdog> i bought a whole beef tenderloin on sale last nite :>
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[12:17:42] <jesseg> Happy Thanksgiving everyone! (at least to those of you in geographical regions where it happens to be Thanksgiving Day...)
[12:19:04] <jesseg> haha here's a magnetic base that sticks to all non-ferrous metals: https://www.ebay.com
[12:19:10] <jesseg> that's got to be a pretty special magnet
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[12:27:33] <Deejay> hi
[12:27:43] <weenerdog> lol
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[16:36:08] <Deejay> gn8
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[16:54:43] <Lcvette> It booted up!
[16:56:36] * Lcvette uploaded an image: scv_15429162287271751946591_20181122_165557087.jpg (15KB) < https://matrix.org >
[16:56:37] * Lcvette uploaded an image: scv_15429161018911264425755_20181122_165548726.jpg (23KB) < https://matrix.org >
[16:56:38] * Lcvette uploaded an image: scv_1542916059787837499303_20181122_165544611.jpg (23KB) < https://matrix.org >
[16:58:21] <Lcvette> But it's in a not ready state
[16:58:36] <Lcvette> Gotta find out why
[16:58:45] <Lcvette> Maybe bad estop switch
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[17:23:35] <allibgbg> Hi, anyone using bCNC ?
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[17:41:35] <jthornton> Lcvette: yea your making progress
[17:53:08] <Tom_L> 61�F Hi 64, snow sunday.
[17:58:35] <jthornton> you can keep the snow lol
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[18:09:54] <XXCoder> hey all
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[18:10:36] <jthornton> hey
[18:11:09] <XXCoder> hows things
[18:11:40] <jthornton> just waiting for the coop door to close so I can wrap up down here
[18:12:12] <jthornton> got some work done on the vismach docs but not pushed yet so no show n tell lol
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[18:16:26] <XXCoder> cool
[18:38:42] <jthornton> see you in the morning
[18:52:47] <Tom_L> ok i just fixed an odd one i can say i've never seen
[18:53:45] <Tom_L> you know about the squeaker on your disk brakes. well it's a year old car on the rear and i swear the squeaker was going off already. so i pulled the wheel off to find a leaf wedged in there just right to make the same sound!
[18:54:10] <Tom_L> she was freaking out thinking she broke it already
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[21:33:27] <flyback-> heh
[22:01:20] <Lcvette> lol
[22:01:29] <Lcvette> nice fix.. wish my cars fixed that easy
[22:02:26] <Lcvette> if mine was squeking, it would be that i found my wife had been driving like that for 6 months and the pad was gone, the pad backing was half its original width and the rotor was shot
[22:04:55] <Tom_L> not enough miles to have anything like that wrong yet..
[22:06:02] <Tom_L> that's what had me wondering
[22:06:38] <weenerdog> i've had the same vehicle for 15 years
[22:07:00] <Tom_L> yeah i drive em a long time but this one is new
[22:09:20] <weenerdog> i just got a cool project truck. 97 z71 extended cab. motor leaks oil and the transmission only has 1st and 2nd. but creampuff like new body/interior. i'll rebuild the motor and find a transmission and love it. only gave $250 for it. will be fun to do.
[22:09:49] <weenerdog> or buy a new crate 350 for it...
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[23:06:55] <XXCoder> Tom_itx: lol a leaf
[23:07:07] <Tom_itx> go figure
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