#linuxcnc | Logs for 2018-12-15
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[00:02:02] <roycroft> speaking of rubber stuff
[00:02:28] <roycroft> i just got a benchtop edge bander, and two of the feet are missing the rubber grippers
[00:02:42] <roycroft> they are basically rubber discs with holes bored in the middle
[00:03:03] <roycroft> i looked at it and thought that hockey pucks would be great for that - they should be fairly easy to machine to size
[00:03:18] <roycroft> and i found that i can buy a dozen regulation hockey pucks for $19.99, with free shipping
[00:03:38] <roycroft> i had no idea they were that cheap
[00:03:46] <XXCoder> yeah those is amazing for anti-vibration
[00:03:53] <roycroft> so i ordered some - they can be useful for so many things
[00:04:06] <XXCoder> and its dense so it can bear up to a lot of weight
[00:04:28] <Tom_L> i got a pile of em free at games :D
[00:04:52] <roycroft> i'd have to spend more on fuel to drive to a hockey game than i paid for a dozen pucks
[00:05:05] <XXCoder> lol
[00:06:34] <roycroft> hockey is not really a thing in oregon
[00:06:45] <roycroft> seattle just got an nhl franchise thoug
[00:06:48] <roycroft> h
[00:07:01] <XXCoder> i dont even know where nearest hockey area is lol
[00:07:14] <roycroft> right now, vancouver is the closest nhl team
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[00:07:56] <roycroft> hockey night in canada is the longest running sports show on television anywhere in the world
[00:08:02] <roycroft> it's been on since 1952
[00:09:12] <veek> XXCoder, (he's just talking about hanging them vs storing flat in bins) https://www.regalpts.com
[00:09:52] <XXCoder> interesting
[00:13:14] <roycroft> i can guarantee that i have belts in my vehicles and belts in my machines that are way way way way way older than seven years
[00:13:36] <roycroft> odd that they would degrade more in storage than in service :)
[00:14:13] <XXCoder> dunno its in dark place
[00:14:32] <XXCoder> and protective oil/dirt coating lol
[00:14:44] <roycroft> yeah, i don't pimp out my machinery with internal black lights
[00:14:59] <XXCoder> pimp
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[02:15:56] <veek> why are bolts so very expensive and can you make your own .. I was looking at some M5 15mm bolts - they are x12 times (minimum) the steel weight
[02:16:35] <XXCoder> demend and unwilling to make
[02:16:57] <XXCoder> you need turret lathe to make ampounts worth making yourself
[02:17:10] <veek> lemme check thanks
[02:18:55] <veek> can't we use a press and die and some heat to melt the head in an oven and squeeze some of our own bolts
[02:19:16] <veek> ppl DIY shop presses 20 ton and such
[02:21:55] <XXCoder> dunno
[02:22:15] <veek> hmm.. the die would be in two parts.. so you'd need to machine the area where it joins.. i dunno much about die making anyhow :(
[02:23:06] <XXCoder> if you ened machine as well as machine threads and face off botton
[02:23:27] <XXCoder> rest dont need any kind of precision behind "it works".
[02:23:49] <veek> but frigging 12 times is ridiculous .. what happened to mass manufacturing reduces prices
[02:24:11] <XXCoder> well could always go chinese but could get butter alloy
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[02:27:30] <veek> hmm a lot of people have complained about expensive bolts
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[02:43:24] <Deejay> moin
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[03:14:53] <SpeedEvil> Or find a reasonable vendor
[03:15:51] <SpeedEvil> https://www.orbitalfasteners.co.uk
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[03:39:00] <gloops> strong bolts? what are those for?
[03:40:16] <gloops> well, can tell im off today, freezing rain, sleet and bloody freezing
[03:41:19] <gloops> my rapid bandsaw build has turned into another long term project
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[05:51:28] <andypugh> He has gone, but there is a lot of work in bolts, and most commercial ones use rolled threads (stronger) and are heat-treated. And if you go to the right plaxes they do only cost pennies.
[05:51:57] <andypugh> It seems a it like complaining that PC CPUs cost a lot more than sand does :-)
[05:52:22] <XXCoder> hey
[05:52:43] <XXCoder> lol
[06:32:09] <miss0r|office> andypugh: nice lol
[06:32:35] <XXCoder> yo
[06:32:41] <miss0r|office> 'ello
[06:33:10] <XXCoder> didnt you have project?
[06:33:17] <miss0r|office> the land rover project?
[06:33:31] <XXCoder> hmm cnc something?
[06:33:45] <miss0r|office> yeah. THe controller is sitting right beside me at the moment
[06:33:56] <XXCoder> cool :)
[06:34:00] <miss0r|office> All wired up, waiting for me to gather strength to program it :)
[06:34:21] <XXCoder> myself im just playing with wii u game
[06:34:29] <miss0r|office> hehe
[06:34:35] <XXCoder> but evenually circiut board kits will arrive
[06:34:40] <XXCoder> just playing around with solder
[06:34:44] <miss0r|office> and I am basically waiting for the misses to go into labor... (any day now)
[06:37:09] <XXCoder> wow and pre-congats ;)
[06:37:19] <miss0r|office> What no condolences?
[06:37:20] <miss0r|office> :P
[06:37:34] <miss0r|office> Its our number two...
[06:37:35] <XXCoder> lol
[06:38:30] <miss0r|office> What circuit boards are you waiting for?
[06:38:51] <XXCoder> oh silly stuff lemme link to couple
[06:39:05] <miss0r|office> Just give me the headlines
[06:39:35] <XXCoder> https://www.aliexpress.com
[06:40:28] <XXCoder> those kits is REALLY cheap
[06:41:44] <jthornton> morning
[06:41:50] <XXCoder> hey jt
[06:45:21] <miss0r|office> not realy in a position to clock links right now. What are they?
[06:45:34] <XXCoder> oh small fun solder project kit
[06:45:53] <XXCoder> that one specifically is less than 2 usd xmas tree leds battery and stuff nesscary to run it
[06:45:55] <jthornton> a christmas tree made with circuit boards and leds
[06:46:32] <jthornton> my link shows $2.80
[06:47:40] <XXCoder> what I ordered is solder surface, kits (tree, 1 hz-50 mhz crystal oscillayor counter, "breathing light parts" (no idea), function signal generator, "dream light" (also no idea)
[06:47:49] <XXCoder> jthornton: youre right sorry lol
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[06:50:07] <veek> what's the material used in welder film to protect the eyes? it has to block UV? #10 etc? plain glass?
[06:52:32] <XXCoder> no idea?
[06:52:43] <XXCoder> theres also ones that dim automically
[06:54:57] <jthornton> I havn't bought anything from aliexpress since they ripped me off for $300 for ssd's
[06:55:35] <XXCoder> some stuff I never buy, and thats storage media of any kind, batteries of any kind, charger of any kind
[06:55:38] <veek> \how did they rip you off?
[06:55:47] <XXCoder> 'exceptions is ones already included with product i want
[06:55:52] <veek> Kingdian?
[06:55:57] <jthornton> never sent it and I didn't complain in time
[06:56:07] <veek> guhh!
[06:56:19] <XXCoder> doh
[06:56:54] <XXCoder> only once did someone try to rip me off
[06:57:00] <XXCoder> they failed
[06:57:01] <veek> jthornton, too late to rake it up again? 300's a lot of cash
[06:59:14] <veek> I don't buy much anyhow.. still a noob so.. +a lot of the stuff is available domestically imho but you got to know the in-out of the business to buy and not get cheated
[06:59:41] <jthornton> yea I got busy and forgot to file a claim in time
[07:00:00] <XXCoder> jthornton: btw if any of aliexpress seller tells you that they acciently overcharged you shipping by $1 and you need to accept dispute to get it, dont.
[07:00:09] <XXCoder> aliexpress you can only get refund once
[07:00:29] <XXCoder> it happened only once so pretty rare
[07:00:30] <jthornton> thanks for the heads up
[07:01:06] <Tom_L> morning
[07:01:15] <jthornton> morning
[07:02:19] <andypugh> veek: I would buy something from a welding shop, rather than guess
[07:02:19] <Tom_L> 26°F Hi 56 and clear
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[07:02:39] <Tom_L> andypugh's clock must have stopped...
[07:03:00] <veek> andypugh, yeah, eye operations are way more expensive.. still good to know how all this works
[07:03:27] <Tom_L> welding glass is cheap compared to not using it
[07:03:33] <jthornton> 47°F with a high of 48°F and raining
[07:03:33] <XXCoder> take it from deaf guy. dont risk your eyes.
[07:03:50] <XXCoder> oh yeah
[07:04:03] <XXCoder> jthornton: i went to work today, worked only for 2 hours before blackout.
[07:04:04] <XXCoder> bah,
[07:04:05] <andypugh> Tom_L: ?
[07:04:32] <MarcelineVQ> XXCoder: we tend to share weather,also had blackout around lunchtime here
[07:04:48] <XXCoder> thankfully home area didnt have one
[07:04:49] <Tom_L> ahh nevermind.. i was thinking it was the middle of the night there
[07:05:01] <andypugh> No, it’s noon.
[07:05:09] <XXCoder> what sucks about work blackout is that one part may well be scrapped.
[07:05:18] <XXCoder> kart boring tool was in middle of part
[07:05:26] <XXCoder> bore has +- .0005" tol
[07:05:36] <XXCoder> yeah not likely to pass if restart
[07:06:00] <MarcelineVQ> can you bore from other direction? :>
[07:06:16] <XXCoder> spring cut will kill it
[07:07:28] <jthornton> when I worked in the shipyard building destroyers one job was to weld tabs in the exhaust stack for splitters (things that cool the exhaust so heat seeking missiles don't fly in) anyway I would get the tab in position and turn my head and the welder would tack it then I'd check it and turn my head while she welded it out... got the worst welding burn from the reflection off the opposite wall
[07:07:57] <XXCoder> ow
[07:08:10] <XXCoder> you probably ended up seeing it for days
[07:08:58] <XXCoder> or was you talking about skin type burn
[07:09:13] <jthornton> no sand in the eyes burn
[07:09:52] <XXCoder> literal sand or?
[07:09:59] <XXCoder> basically powder from soldering
[07:10:12] <jthornton> felt like sand in your eyes from the welding arc burn
[07:10:37] <XXCoder> not great feeling i guess heh
[07:10:50] <andypugh> That’s why you shouldn’t trust women to weld :-)
[07:11:54] <andypugh> I assume this was stick welding?
[07:12:17] <jthornton> no aluminum welding with a spool gun IIRC
[07:12:44] <jthornton> everything from the main deck up was aluminum
[07:13:30] <andypugh> I once brazed up a three-man tandem bicycle frame using a carbon arc torch (which used to be a common accessory for arc welders). I did it in a Tee-shirt. Ow.
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[07:15:00] <jthornton> instant sun burn
[07:15:11] <XXCoder> new way to do tanb
[07:16:24] <jthornton> I wear long sleeve even when it's hot because I had melanoma on my arm years ago
[07:17:18] <XXCoder> ah skin cancer, the nost curable of cancers
[07:20:15] <XXCoder> *most
[07:20:17] <andypugh> Hair cancer :-)
[07:20:49] <andypugh> (Yes, I know that hair is dead so that can’t be a thing, but if it was, it would be an easy fix)
[07:21:55] <XXCoder> :P
[07:22:01] <XXCoder> unless its all hair at once
[07:22:11] <jthornton> melanoma if not treated right can be very deadly
[07:22:15] <XXCoder> woul have to remove all of em at once
[07:22:31] <XXCoder> jt indeed. good thing its so easy to stop once notice early enough
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[09:13:53] <SpeedEvil> Clam cancer is a thing.
[09:14:07] <SpeedEvil> It is a transmissible cancer too. The cancer can infect other clams.
[09:14:29] <SpeedEvil> http://www.microbe.tv
[09:15:11] <SpeedEvil> A handful of transmissible cancers have been found, thoughnone inhumans with intact immune systems
[09:24:44] <rmu> human papilloma virus causes cervical cancer in perfectly healthy women
[09:26:26] <andypugh> Tasmanian devils have a big problem with one
[09:27:27] <SpeedEvil> rmu: yes, but it's a virus causing cancer. It's not other animals cells of the same species causing cancer.
[09:27:39] <SpeedEvil> And being infectious directly, without any virus.
[09:27:46] <andypugh> https://en.wikipedia.org
[09:28:42] <pcw_home> sheep can get lung cancer from a virus
[09:29:38] <andypugh> Though, again, to reinforce SpeedEvil’s point, that’s a transmissible virus not a transmissible cancer.
[09:31:49] <pcw_home> There are even some endogenous viruses that cause cancer
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[09:33:10] <andypugh> Poor design, if you ask me.
[09:35:03] <pcw_home> whats funny is that it appears that some endogenous retroviruses were retained because they provide resistance to similar external viruses
[09:35:27] <pcw_home> kind of like a built in vaccine
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[09:45:19] <rmu> interesting
[09:49:58] <rmu> andypugh: this is poor design https://en.wikipedia.org ;-)
[10:23:59] <andypugh> Yes, that does look a bit daft.
[10:26:02] <SpeedEvil> http://blogs.discovermagazine.com - worksafe
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[12:40:45] <sensille> my 6040 came with a tool touch probe. does linuxcnc has builtin-support for that? i generate the gcode with f360
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[13:00:39] <Deejay> re
[13:15:59] <jdh> sensille: yes
[13:16:27] <andypugh> sensille: Yes, in that there is a dedicated hal pin for a probe input and the probing G-codes are supported
[13:17:27] <andypugh> sensille: motion.probe-input http://linuxcnc.org
[13:17:56] <andypugh> G38.N straight probe: http://linuxcnc.org
[13:18:52] <jdh> mine also came with a cheesy probe. I don't think it actually has a connection to the cheesier BOB in it.
[13:20:24] <Papagno> Hi at all . on actual master we have a problem with spindle at speed . the problem is caused the last patch for fix velocity zero arc to arc transiction in some case
[13:21:00] <Papagno> The problem is : m3 s24000
[13:21:19] <Papagno> stop spindle first the speed at speed is true
[13:21:30] <Papagno> after in mdi g1 x-100 f100
[13:21:36] <Papagno> the machine not move
[13:22:20] <Papagno> can test on axis but disable pin spindle at speed for simulation
[13:22:34] <Papagno> if command m3 s24000
[13:22:51] <Papagno> wait ramp for have spindle at speed true
[13:23:01] <Papagno> after command g1 x-10 f100
[13:23:11] <Papagno> the axis move normally and this is ok
[13:23:39] <Papagno> the problem is only if have commanded a m3 and stop spindle first the have spindle at speed true
[13:23:49] <Papagno> some solution ?
[13:24:12] <sensille> andypugh: thanks
[13:25:14] <Papagno> andypugh, can fix this bug
[13:25:39] <Papagno> andypugh, the problem not is in multiplindle patch
[13:26:16] <Papagno> but in new Tp fixed for resolve problem the zero velocity when have transicion arc to arc
[13:26:29] <andypugh> Papagno: So, spindle speed is zero, spindle speed is true, but motion is still inhibited?
[13:26:43] <Papagno> andypugh, no
[13:27:35] <Papagno> andypugh, command m3 s24000 , stop spindle first the have spindle at speed true , after command g1 x1 -10 , the axis not move and cnc is run
[13:28:05] <Papagno> andypugh, understand ?
[13:28:23] <andypugh> No, sorry.
[13:29:19] <Papagno> andypugh, you have temview , for connect on my pc and see in realtime problem ?
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[13:30:14] <andypugh> Is the machine not moving when spindle at speed is false, or moving when it shouldn’t and spindle-at-speed is true?
[13:30:34] <andypugh> Sorry, ignore that.
[13:30:54] <Papagno> if have spindle at speed = true not have problem.
[13:31:00] <andypugh> Is the machine not moving when spindle-at-speed is true, or is it moving when spindle-at-speed is false?
[13:31:00] <Papagno> the problem is :
[13:31:26] <Papagno> if command a m3 S24000
[13:31:51] <Papagno> the spindle for arrived at 24000 have ramp
[13:32:05] <Papagno> want about 6 secod for ramp ok
[13:32:17] <andypugh> OK
[13:32:24] <Papagno> when ramp ok inverter send digital out
[13:32:35] <andypugh> OK
[13:32:37] <Papagno> ramp ok and it is connect at spindle at speed
[13:33:03] <Papagno> the problem is present only if you stop spindle first the ramp ok
[13:33:47] <andypugh> You mean stop the spindle before the ramp is finished and before spindle-at-speed goes true?
[13:33:54] <Papagno> in this case if coomand a g1 not is executed , cnc is append and wait spindle at speed true, but i not have command a m3 , but stop spindle
[13:33:59] <Papagno> yes
[13:34:27] <Papagno> yes now understand
[13:34:32] <gregcnc> why does this situation occur?
[13:34:55] <andypugh> What is the value of spindle-at-speed in this situation?
[13:35:22] <Papagno> in the same velocity commanded
[13:35:40] <Papagno> the problem not is velocity , but spindle at speed signal
[13:35:44] <andypugh> I mean the actual value of the HAL pin.
[13:35:54] <Papagno> for test :
[13:36:15] <andypugh> Does the VFD output a spindle-at-speed true when the spindle is stopped?
[13:36:57] <Papagno> no , not is normal . when spindle is stopped not is ramp ok
[13:37:17] <Papagno> the spindle stop , spindle at speed is false
[13:37:21] <Papagno> this is normal
[13:37:44] <Papagno> on all machine you have this logic
[13:37:56] <pcw_home> Not at all
[13:38:14] <Papagno> the spindle at speed true is on when have coomanded m3 or m4 and s and ramp is ok
[13:38:48] <pcw_home> many will use feedback so spindle-at-speed will be true anywhere, even stopped
[13:40:12] <andypugh> I think this is correct behaviour.
[13:41:00] <pcw_home> I think so too, the VFD signal is not really the same as LinuxCNCs spindle-at-speed meaning
[13:43:02] <andypugh> The answer might be to use HAL logic and drive motion.spindle-at-speed from VFD-at-speed-input OR NOT motion.spindle-on (or spindle.0.on)
[13:43:08] <Papagno> i can modification the logic for have spindle at speed true when spindle is stop, but i thig not normally, monday test this . i thing can have same problem if on the same line write m3 s24000 g1 x-10 f100
[13:43:22] <Papagno> the g1 wiil wait the ramp ok ?
[13:43:30] <pcw_home> When a spindle encoder is used, typically spindle-at-speed comes from a "near" component so is true at 24000RMP and 0 RPM
[13:43:54] <andypugh> It should, if spindle.0.at-speed is true
[13:44:36] <Papagno> if the signal spindle at speed is on , when start command g1 and spindle not is conclused ramp
[13:44:52] <andypugh> (LUT5 might be the easiest way to make the spindle-at-speed logic set to true when the spindle is off.
[13:44:53] <Papagno> g1 can start first the ramp ok
[13:46:12] <andypugh> When you say “first” do you mean “before”?
[13:46:16] <pcw_home> Setting it true when the spindle is off might be a bit dangerous... (still coasting)
[13:46:18] <Papagno> i thing normally can move machine in g1 if not have commanded a m3
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[13:46:42] <Papagno> yes before
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[13:47:14] <andypugh> pcw_home: Hard to think of a moce that is safe with the spindle stopped but dangerous with the spindle coasting. Except a tool-change, fo course.
[13:47:18] <Papagno> whithout a spindle at spindle sigmnal true
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[13:47:55] <andypugh> I need to experiment in 2.7 to see what that does
[13:48:11] <Papagno> yes pleased test on 2.7ů
[13:48:15] <Papagno> i have only master
[13:48:25] <andypugh> Unfortunately I just checked out and started to build 2.8 to be reafy to look at the problem
[13:50:37] <pcw_home> I messed around a bit and it seemed to me 2.7 was identical
[13:51:46] <pcw_home> what problem are you actually trying to solve?, can you not use a G0 move if just moving the spindle to a safe place?
[13:53:16] <andypugh> (Indeed, I am wondering why you would ever do a G1 with the spindle off)
[13:53:51] <pcw_home> well engraving with a diamond...
[13:54:17] <Papagno> i have test is simulation , can connect in or the signal velocicy zero encoder speed and spindle at speed is true when spindle is stop or ramp ok
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[13:55:16] <Papagno> monday test on real machine
[13:55:23] <Papagno> and advise if ok
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[14:00:06] <andypugh> I have experimented in 2.8
[14:00:14] <andypugh> Machine on, home axes
[14:00:31] <andypugh> setp spindle-at-speed 0
[14:00:43] <andypugh> G1 X10 F100 -> machine moves
[14:00:56] <andypugh> M3 S100
[14:01:10] <andypugh> G1 X0 F100 -> machine does not move
[14:01:25] <andypugh> setp spindle-at-speed 1
[14:01:31] <andypugh> Machine starts to move
[14:01:52] <andypugh> setp spindle-at-speed 0
[14:01:56] <andypugh> M5
[14:02:26] <andypugh> G1 X10 F100 -> machine moves! (ie, with spindle-at-speed false, but with spindle off)
[14:03:07] <andypugh> Which isn’t what I was expecting, but does seem to be what you were expecting. Or is this the unexpected behaviour that you have been describing?
[14:09:45] <Papagno> not is this situation
[14:10:05] <Papagno> m3 s100
[14:10:21] <Papagno> spindle at speed 0
[14:10:36] <Papagno> abort or spindle stop or m5
[14:10:41] <Papagno> g1 not move
[14:11:05] <Papagno> andypugh,
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[14:11:48] <Papagno> andypugh, understandtest
[14:12:49] <Papagno> you thing coomand spindle rotation, for same motive not have spindle at speed
[14:13:41] <Papagno> after want move in g1 in mdi, the g1 not is executed
[14:14:29] <Papagno> because at every m3 not have spindle at speed true
[14:16:11] <Papagno> andypugh, Your test is differetent understand ?
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[14:28:53] <andypugh> I think that is because the system is stuck in “waiting for spindle at speed = true” and it does not notice that the spindle has been stopped.
[14:29:02] <andypugh> This is the same with 2.7
[14:29:20] <andypugh> setp spindle-at-speed 0
[14:29:30] <andypugh> G1 F100 X10 -> no movement
[14:29:34] <andypugh> M5
[14:29:44] <andypugh> Still no movement
[14:30:00] <andypugh> setp spindle-at-speed 1 -> movement
[14:30:58] <andypugh> (setp spindle-at-speed 0 / G1 F100 X0 -> movement)
[14:32:12] <andypugh> If you arange your system so that spindle-at-speed is true for a stopped spindle then you won’t see this problem (and I think that most systems will be using a spndle-at-speed which is true with the spindle stopped)
[14:32:44] <andypugh> Whether this is a bug or not, I cna;t decide.
[14:35:17] <Papagno> ok tahnsk for support , monday test on real m achine
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[16:22:33] <Deejay> gn8
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[17:14:09] <XXCoder> as predicted one part was scrapped
[17:27:19] <flyback> https://www.geek.com
[17:28:29] <XXCoder> nice
[17:32:40] <jthornton> it only seems logical that if s = 0 and the spindle is stopped that spindle is at speed
[17:38:08] <XXCoder> guess so?
[17:40:23] <andypugh> This is the data coming out of my 24-bit A/D converter.
[17:40:24] <andypugh> https://pastebin.ubuntu.com
[17:40:31] <andypugh> I am not convinced..
[17:41:02] <andypugh> The format is the 3 bytes from the SPI read then those three bytes as a 24-bit hex, then decimal, then float.
[17:41:35] <andypugh> Too many repeated bytes, I reckon
[17:41:40] <XXCoder> whats value of?
[17:41:46] <XXCoder> amp or what
[17:42:01] <andypugh> Just a voltage
[17:42:47] <XXCoder> interesting so values is way off?
[17:42:53] <andypugh> No idea.
[17:43:06] <andypugh> But it doesn’t vary sensibly as I move the arm
[17:43:18] <andypugh> That is with everything stationary
[17:43:39] <andypugh> So the MSB (at leas) shouldn’t move.
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[17:52:33] <andypugh> Another odd thing, you almost never see a number < 0x80
[17:52:57] <andypugh> (It happens, but rarely) So I think there is a problem with the SPI link
[17:59:04] <sync> doesn't it do differential spi stuff?
[17:59:14] <sync> idk it has been years since I looked into mine
[18:00:01] <andypugh> Doesn’t what?
[18:00:28] <sync> your arm
[18:00:30] <andypugh> This is 24-bit 8-channle ADC into Arduino
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[18:00:40] <sync> ah, eh
[18:00:51] <andypugh> Ah, no, this one has potentiometers in the lbows
[18:00:57] <andypugh> (elbows)
[18:01:06] <sync> egh
[18:01:24] <andypugh> Well, it saves homing
[18:01:56] <andypugh> And I think they are quality devices, they seem pretty stable and sensitive with the multimeter.
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[18:54:54] * hazzy-m uploaded a video: Peek 2018-12-15 18-54.mp4 (872KB) < https://matrix.org >
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[22:16:22] <veek> 1. what's the force involved when knocking a bolt into shape? 10T 20T? 50T? 2. Can you safely use bottle jacks in parallel?
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[22:59:51] <veek> is there a good drawing of how the drill press works (the chuck/spindle to pulley bit)
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[23:53:42] <veek> wow check this out: https://www.youtube.com basically there are 4 internal parts to a chuck.. the jaws, the sleeve and 2 other parts and then there's the drill-press arbor. the jaws move in/out like a little Alien-movie-jaw when the sleeve's turned
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