#linuxcnc | Logs for 2018-12-18

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[01:01:44] <Lcvette> pcw_home: question on mpg encoder connection.. if encoder has A, A-, B, B- what do you do with the A- and B-? just leave them unconnected?
[01:01:53] <Lcvette> refering to connecting to 16-19 mpg inputs
[01:02:21] * Lcvette uploaded an image: MPG Pin Out Diagram.jpg (141KB) < https://matrix.org >
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[01:24:26] <fragalot> hi
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[01:48:39] <miss0r> fragalot hello
[01:51:54] <fragalot> miss0r: hey!
[01:52:09] <miss0r> so ah... Aren't you supposed to be at work? :)
[01:52:28] <fragalot> was on my way out the door :-)
[01:53:03] <miss0r> clearly :P
[01:53:08] * fragalot out
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[03:00:03] <Deejay> moin
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[04:23:24] <selroc> log
[04:23:25] <c-log> selroc: Today's Log http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81
[04:26:29] <Loetmichel> hmm, you guys (and gals) think that'll fit for a CNC 6040? Anything i forgot on the purchase list (german)? -> http://www.cyrom.org
[04:43:07] <Loetmichel> (its a PDF, nothing dangerous ;)
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[04:44:12] <sensille> missing some motors for the rollers so it can move around autonomously ;)
[04:45:04] <Loetmichel> sensille: hihi
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[05:03:35] <PL7icnc> HI someone online
[05:04:08] <PL7icnc> Question is this Channel Locked , for review
[05:04:20] <sensille> logged?
[05:04:25] <PL7icnc> Some german Here
[05:05:07] <PL7icnc> sensille, some Channels put all the posts into a textfile somwhere to review how has been writing
[05:05:35] <sensille> yeah, you mean 'logged', not 'locked'
[05:05:48] <PL7icnc> Im a german School Teatcher that Runs a classroom of CNC
[05:06:18] <PL7icnc> Sorry my English is Not that Good as im a Working side teatcher
[05:06:49] <PL7icnc> Technikal Toolmaker Mastercheaf
[05:07:03] <PL7icnc> "Werkzeugmacher Handwerksmeister"
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[05:07:48] <PL7icnc> So to be Right is this Channel Logged
[05:08:27] <selroc> log
[05:08:28] <c-log> selroc: Today's Log http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81
[05:08:41] <PL7icnc> I Guess this is mainly used by USA Citizens
[05:08:58] <PL7icnc> Thank you Very Mutch selroc
[05:09:00] <selroc> no, I am an Europe citizen
[05:09:10] <PL7icnc> German
[05:09:52] <selroc> welcome
[05:10:02] <PL7icnc> Whow 2 year Full Day Logging
[05:11:33] <PL7icnc> The People That did all the CNC Stuff in Education is not Here anymore
[05:11:58] <PL7icnc> so I Try to Get behind the System as good as i can
[05:12:54] <PL7icnc> I dident Even Know if the Men How did all this Have been Here
[05:13:20] <PL7icnc> ok i need to go back to Class
[05:13:47] <selroc> bye
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[05:16:43] <XXCoder> caps
[05:17:40] <sensille> autocap?
[05:17:58] <XXCoder> nah making comment about odd cap havbig of other guy
[05:18:06] <XXCoder> *habit
[05:18:43] <sensille> auto-cap-first-letter-of-each-word
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[05:19:51] <XXCoder> yeah like everything guy said is a title to a movie or book
[05:21:01] <sensille> even for german it would be too much
[05:23:20] <XXCoder> oh well lol
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[06:13:57] <Tom_L> makes up for lack of punctuation
[06:22:07] <jthornton> morning
[06:22:55] <XXCoder> hey jthornton
[06:23:01] <XXCoder> you remember friday blackout?
[06:23:16] <XXCoder> apparently they gave me hours for basically whole shifty
[06:25:08] <jthornton> nice
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[06:25:17] <XXCoder> yeah since I planned to leave at 12 am lol
[06:40:43] <jthornton> what time do you normally get off from work?
[06:41:27] <XXCoder> 1:45 am
[06:43:09] <jthornton> I used to work midnight to 7am at the shipyard and got paid for 8 hours it was easy work
[06:44:12] <XXCoder> nice but over night shift isnt great for health
[06:44:21] <XXCoder> even just "late" like mine isnt too great
[06:45:12] <jthornton> I loved working that shift
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[07:13:48] <jthornton> yea finally captured Ctrl c and got a clean exit https://paste.ubuntu.com
[07:14:30] <XXCoder> nice
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[07:19:56] <jthornton> looks like another good afternoon to ride the mountain bike today and possibly tomorrow
[07:20:16] <XXCoder> :)
[07:30:31] <miss0r> I couldn't help myself; I needed to add a rope to the front bumper :D https://imgur.com
[07:30:57] <XXCoder> you got roped in rope trend
[07:31:12] <miss0r> indeed :)
[07:37:39] <jthornton> what no farm jack? all self respecting jeeps over here have a farm jack on the hood
[07:38:31] <jthornton> https://www.roundforge.com
[07:43:32] <miss0r> jthornton I only pring that when I am "in the mud"... and in that case it is stored in the mounting slots for it, behind the seats :)
[07:43:41] <miss0r> Next to the hand starter crank :D
[07:44:07] <jthornton> ok you will have to make a video of you hand cranking it
[07:44:22] <miss0r> You like to see men sweat?
[07:44:35] <pcw_home> Lcvette: almost always the A- B- signals should be left open
[07:44:38] <miss0r> hehe. To be fair, it is actualy not hard to do so
[07:45:05] <jthornton> is it gas or diesel?
[07:45:24] <miss0r> gas
[07:45:31] <miss0r> or as the brits say: petrol
[07:45:32] <pcw_home> (they are almost always generated by a differential driver like a 26LS31 so if you ground the output you might damage the driver)
[07:45:43] <miss0r> I wouldn't want to hand crank a diesel..
[07:47:13] <jthornton> I watched an 80 year old guy in the Mercedes museum start a diesel car by hand
[07:47:34] <miss0r> hehe. Probably not a diesel born with a preheater
[07:47:37] <jthornton> only had 1 cylinder IIRC
[07:47:48] <miss0r> which is the case with the land rover diesel...
[07:47:50] <jthornton> spun the flywheel backwards
[07:48:09] <miss0r> Nice
[07:48:45] <miss0r> Theres a technique to hand cranking a land rover. You need to "cup" your hands, so when it catches or kicks back, you don't break your fingers
[07:48:51] <miss0r> Quite important to know :D
[07:49:54] <miss0r> I mean; it still hurts like a mofo.. when it happens, but the finger bones stay intact
[07:50:57] <jthornton> grandfather had a few hand crank tractors that I never could start when I was young
[07:51:41] <miss0r> its a 50/50 mix of practice and strength. so..
[07:51:48] <jthornton> my `56 Ferguson F40 has the hand crank on the crankshaft but is not visible through the front
[07:52:02] <miss0r> so, can you start that one with a crank?
[07:52:22] <jthornton> if there was a hole in the front yes
[07:52:53] <miss0r> ah.. so theres *IS* no hole :) I just thought perhaps it was hidden
[07:52:56] <jthornton> I think all the Continental engines from that era had the hand crank bit on the crankshaft
[07:53:25] <miss0r> You can see the crank hole in the middle of the bumper on the land rover picture I posted
[07:53:59] <jthornton> aye I see it
[07:54:02] <miss0r> come to think of it; That rope might be in the way of a proper swing
[07:54:52] <miss0r> Time will tell, I suppose :)
[07:56:32] <jthornton> wow a beautiful red sky this morning (it's just before sunrise here)
[07:57:03] <miss0r> Hehe.. 'round here I think I have about 1� hours worth of sunlight left.
[07:57:21] <miss0r> but as always: Picture or it didn't happen
[07:59:27] <miss0r> apparently sunrise to sunset it only 7 hours & 1 minut at the moment
[08:00:09] <jthornton> we have 9:38:50 of daylight from sunrise to sunset according to the chicken door
[08:00:41] <miss0r> hehe.. The local source of information :D
[08:01:07] <XXCoder> soon the longest night will be here
[08:01:13] <jthornton> I use astral to get the sun times each day so I know when to open/close the door
[08:01:16] <XXCoder> dec 23 something this year
[08:01:24] <jthornton> aye
[08:02:05] <miss0r> Here it will be dec. 21
[08:02:16] <XXCoder> 8:28 dalight at shortest here
[08:02:52] <XXCoder> dec 14th is when it turns to growing day length here
[08:03:22] <miss0r> I miss summer already...
[08:20:58] <methods_> https://www.theverge.com
[08:21:00] <methods_> weeeeeeeee
[08:21:05] <methods_> 4 launches today
[08:32:50] <SpeedEvil> Hopefully plenty of red glare, with less bursting in the air.
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[08:37:48] <methods_> oh i guess the bezos one isn't actually going into the space
[08:37:55] <methods_> sub-orbital
[08:38:08] <methods_> sorta space
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[08:46:01] <methods_> i guess there is a fifth launch too
[08:46:05] <methods_> some indian rocket
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[09:39:56] <weenerdog> howdy
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[10:06:51] <jthornton> hey
[10:07:20] <weenerdog> what up
[10:07:59] <jthornton> not much need to do some real work today lol
[10:08:25] <weenerdog> yeah me too lol
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[10:10:30] <jthornton> got some done yesterday but it's a beautiful day here do after lunch there will be some mountain bike riding for sure
[10:11:39] <weenerdog> love mountain biking. i got good trails right out the back door.
[10:12:05] <weenerdog> i shoot a lot of deer off mountain bike. they're used to atvs. mountain bike gets'em
[10:12:23] <jthornton> nice, they built 25 miles of trails a few years ago about 5 miles from me
[10:17:52] <Loetmichel> weenerdog: get one with electric motor :-)
[10:18:07] <Loetmichel> ans you can even trace the deer at full speed
[10:18:32] <weenerdog> .308 outruns 'em :)
[10:19:33] * Loetmichel smells a charles bronson quote incoming ;)
[10:25:34] <Loetmichel> but i meant: you can follow them even if they move quite fast. i know that they probably have more endurance than the battery, but it at least helps with YOUR endurance
[10:27:57] <FinboySlick> They don't need to follow the trail though.
[10:30:53] <FinboySlick> As a rural Canadian boy, I had to learn how to catch them and fight off bears who would steal my breakfast.
[10:31:46] <rmu> a deer seems to be quite a BREAKFAST
[10:32:27] <FinboySlick> wrestling bears stimulates the appetite. Though if you win, at leas you have something to keep warm with.
[10:32:45] <rmu> how often did you "now win"?
[10:32:55] <rmu> s/now/not/
[10:33:38] <Lcvette> pcw_home: pcw_home
[10:33:39] <Lcvette> > Lcvette: almost always the A- B- signals should be left open thanks pcw_homd
[10:34:48] <FinboySlick> rmu: Never. I had a very warm childhood.
[10:36:17] <rmu> better living through guns
[10:37:35] * JT-Shop feels safe walking into the post office and people have large hand guns hanging on their belt
[10:40:22] <methods_> lot of shootouts in your post office?
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[10:45:29] <JT-Shop> none
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[10:53:16] <methods_> heheh
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[10:53:43] <methods_> well that's just boring
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[10:57:02] <gregcnc> this is pretty good https://youtu.be
[10:59:24] <rmu> staged?
[10:59:39] <gregcnc> who knows, but it is entertaining
[11:00:00] <gregcnc> 7M views in a day would pay for all the cleanup
[11:01:54] <rmu> HW discussion https://news.ycombinator.com
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[12:55:37] <gregcnc> ebay ultrasonic cleaner listing (for parts) "turns on, but makes constant buzzing noise"
[13:00:16] <Rab> haha
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[14:12:50] <Lcvette> pcw_home: does it matter on the 7i77 where i grab the 5v for the encoder power? i found some reference for the 7i76 but it is using power from the step and direction signals outputs which i don't have there on the board im connected too. (i already used the 7i76's 16-19 up.. :(
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[14:15:51] <fragalot> 'sup
[14:18:21] <Lcvette> sup
[14:19:59] <Tom_L> what's goin on today?
[14:20:09] <Lcvette> mpg
[14:20:11] <Lcvette> :D
[14:20:15] <Lcvette> how about you?
[14:20:26] <Tom_L> shouldn't matter where you get 5v just so it's 5v
[14:20:29] <Tom_L> just working
[14:20:42] <fragalot> found out that if my car says it's got 80km of fuel left, what it really means is "about 38"
[14:20:42] <Lcvette> perfect!
[14:21:18] <Lcvette> you can fix that
[14:21:52] <Tom_L> yeah, just bend the dial a little
[14:21:59] <Lcvette> bend the float lever arm dowsn just a touch
[14:22:15] <fragalot> it has neither of those things
[14:22:19] <fragalot> digital pressure sensor
[14:22:35] <fragalot> 's fine though, just coasted along on battery power to a fuel station
[14:22:44] <Lcvette> or up depending on which way it moves the rheostat
[14:23:17] <Lcvette> ah
[14:23:17] <Lcvette> hybrid?
[14:23:19] <fragalot> yes
[14:23:23] <fragalot> it's dogshit
[14:23:26] <fragalot> :D
[14:23:33] <Lcvette> hahahaha
[14:23:43] <fragalot> guzzles more fuel than my previous non-hybrid and everything feels like it's been made out of foil
[14:23:57] <Lcvette> trade it
[14:24:00] <Tom_L> what sort of batteries?
[14:24:04] <fragalot> Tom_L: NiMH
[14:24:12] <Tom_L> wait for someone to hit you and watch it burn
[14:24:12] <fragalot> Lcvette: 4yr lease -- company car
[14:24:20] <fragalot> so i'mma just ride this one out
[14:24:26] <Lcvette> gotcha
[14:24:50] <fragalot> but it is interesting how it has about 50hp more than my previous car
[14:25:05] <fragalot> yet is nearly 2s slower to 100km/h, and has a lower top speed than the previous one
[14:25:10] <fragalot> even though they weigh about the same
[14:25:15] <fragalot> think about that for a moment
[14:30:32] <rmu> does that matter
[14:30:38] <rmu> how often do you go "top speed"
[14:30:58] <rmu> or get near
[14:31:00] <fragalot> it doesn't, but it struggled going slightly up-hill with a strong head-wind when I was in the UK
[14:31:10] <fragalot> power meter went to ~95% to maintain 113km/h
[14:31:56] <rmu> sounds like an old VW "bully"
[14:32:14] <fragalot> lol
[14:32:18] <rmu> except that wouldnt have a power meter and uphill would go only 100kmh;)
[14:32:38] <rmu> with wind from back
[14:32:52] <rmu> what car is it?
[14:33:26] <fragalot> toyota auris touring sports
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[15:00:53] <rmu> i got email last week to configure my model 3
[15:01:24] <rmu> but still no real price
[15:02:06] <fragalot> I'm not really a fan of touch screens for cars - then again once they fully autopilot....
[15:04:05] <rmu> me neither
[15:04:12] <fragalot> I mean.. they ban cellphones because they distract you, but then they put in a fixed touch-screen where you have to focus hard on what you're about to press, where you're likely to press the wrong thing anyway because of a bump in the road
[15:04:28] <fragalot> obviously said screen is also mounted far below the normal line of view
[15:05:17] <rmu> and i will never ever shell out 60k in today's money for a car
[15:06:24] <fragalot> Aye
[15:06:33] <fragalot> also s/car/money-pit/
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[15:43:30] <Papagno> pcw_mesa, Hi peter , i have fix on real machine, with spindle at speed true when spindle is stop. now machine is ok. Thanks for support
[15:46:39] <pcw_mesa> Glad its working now
[16:13:56] <fragalot> baha
[16:14:05] <fragalot> yellow vests are done protesting in france
[16:14:09] <fragalot> so now it's the cops' turn
[16:16:03] <Deejay> gn8
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[16:20:05] <gloops> i see your PM has resigned fragalot
[16:21:57] <fragalot> i'm surprised it took as long as it did
[16:22:42] <gloops> Belgium doesnt seem to have much luck with governments
[16:23:06] <fragalot> :-)
[16:23:09] <XXCoder> belhium pm resigned?
[16:23:21] <fragalot> he's trying
[16:23:29] <XXCoder> why is he doing that?
[16:23:34] <fragalot> the king is taking the governments resignation "under advisement"
[16:24:01] <fragalot> because the majority party quit
[16:24:23] <fragalot> because they disagreed with the UN's voluntary migration pact that has no legal bearing
[16:24:38] <fragalot> at least, that's what they are using as an excuse
[16:25:43] <gloops> https://www.express.co.uk
[16:26:12] <gloops> the EU is failing rapidly
[16:26:16] <XXCoder> also heard pm theresa are challenged by labour party over brexit
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[16:26:31] <XXCoder> would be interesting if removed then brexit is cancelled
[16:26:42] <gloops> XXCoder that fizzled out
[16:27:08] <XXCoder> interesting i saw news recently but then im at usa maybe that news were late
[16:27:12] <fragalot> UK's just trying to hard ball it for now
[16:27:16] <gloops> no the govmt is ramping up no deal preparations - seems increasingly likely now
[16:27:27] <fragalot> they have until march 29th to withdraw their exit as a 'worst case' fallback
[16:27:50] <gloops> its the best case fragalot, we need to wash our hands of the EU totally
[16:27:53] <fragalot> i'm curious what the no deal scenario would be IN PRACTISE.
[16:27:56] <gloops> they will crawl back for a deal
[16:28:04] <fragalot> ie. what do you do with all of the expats?
[16:28:17] <gloops> we dont do anything with expats
[16:28:17] <fragalot> what do you do when suddenly you can't import half of your medication & food?
[16:28:30] <gloops> we can import our food
[16:28:45] <fragalot> only if there is an import deal
[16:29:05] <fragalot> or other trade agreement
[16:29:12] <gloops> hundreds of containers arrive here every day from China under WTO rules, no problem
[16:29:22] <gloops> we can get better food from africa
[16:31:52] <fragalot> it's a little more complicated than jsut falling back on WTO
[16:32:14] <fragalot> at the moment, most of the WTO agreements are done to EU member states, which the UK currently is
[16:32:29] <fragalot> after brexit, the deals made under WTO with EU member states no longer apply to the UK
[16:32:31] <gloops> there may be some temporary confusion, i doubt most brits will notice
[16:32:37] <fragalot> meaning that said deals must be re-negotated
[16:32:57] <gloops> yes thats pretty easy, we just tariff the stuff we dont want coming here
[16:33:02] <fragalot> i would expect prices to go up significantly in the short term
[16:33:17] <gloops> but down in the long term
[16:33:43] <fragalot> debatable
[16:33:46] <gloops> currently we seem to be subsidising a load of fat aristocratic french farmers
[16:33:53] <fragalot> no you don't
[16:34:04] <fragalot> the UK gets a massive rebate that no other EU member gets for that specific topic
[16:34:22] <fragalot> 66% in fact
[16:34:28] <gloops> our old friends in the commonwealth will supply us
[16:34:28] <fragalot> and you haven't since 1985.
[16:34:48] <gloops> fragalot you know full well that the UK is the EU cash cow
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[16:37:05] <fragalot> one of the larger ones, yes
[16:39:20] <gloops> well, it isnt looking too good for EU in general, trouble spreading everywhere now
[16:40:02] <rmu> what about irish border in no deal brexit
[16:41:09] <gloops> it wont be a problem on our part, if the EU chooses to prioritise its stupid rules over a matter of war and peace, its on their heads
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[16:41:40] <rmu> what do you men "no problem". what is going to happen with the border?
[16:41:54] <gloops> there isnt going to be a border
[16:41:55] <rmu> mean
[16:42:23] <rmu> and how does UK limit influx of people
[16:42:25] <gloops> not on our side, if the EU wants one it can build on its side
[16:42:34] <fragalot> so if there is no border
[16:42:41] <fragalot> how does that solve the migration issues you had?
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[16:42:58] <gloops> there are technological solutions
[16:42:59] <fragalot> why would I then not fly to ireland, and walk over as if nothing happened?
[16:43:10] <rmu> if there is no border between uk and ireland and there is no border between ireland and rest of EU, how do you prevent people form going to UK
[16:43:13] <fragalot> how is it different from taking the ferry
[16:43:50] <gloops> you can walk into northern ireland, that doesnt mean normal rules for illegal immigrants dont apply
[16:44:03] <rmu> what does that mean
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[16:44:19] <gloops> when you get caught you go back
[16:45:43] <rmu> go back where
[16:46:35] <rmu> so people go from poland to UK via ireland, and you put them on a flight back to poland if they get caught?
[16:46:35] <gloops> from whence thou comes
[16:46:46] <gloops> yes
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[16:47:28] <andypugh> Well, just back to Ireland would do, ie back to the EU
[16:48:01] <andypugh> And you are missing the point that anyone who is in Ireland would have to be a moron to want to leave Ireland and enter the UK
[16:48:05] <rmu> assuming you catch them in the vicinity of the border
[16:48:36] <gloops> we'll take his photo and put it on the wall in police stations
[16:48:52] <rmu> there is no limit to stupidity, so people will go from ireland to uk
[16:49:30] <rmu> at least mr. beans police station was not large enough for that
[16:49:48] <gloops> there might be a slight upturn in tobacco and alcohol coming over the 'border'
[16:50:47] <rmu> the question is which way
[16:51:16] <andypugh> The idea of a three-answer second referendum is a cunning idea. By having two “Leave” options (no deal, the deal) and one remain option they can pretty much guarantee a 25 / 25 / 50 split.
[16:51:59] <fragalot> andypugh: gotta love numbers
[16:52:10] <rmu> nevertheless, it will not be funny in ireland. and i don't think EU prioritises "stupid rules" over other matters, those rules can't be changed that easily, it is somehow presumptuous of the uk to demand such a thing
[16:52:15] <gloops> andypugh that is what has happened in quite a few EU based referendums in various nations
[16:52:35] <gloops> they always keep voting, splitting the vote etc until they get the response they want
[16:52:39] <andypugh> So I guess that is how the MPs (few of who are in favour of leaving) will manage to wiggle out of doing what the first referendum told them to.
[16:53:04] <rmu> does anybody really think there will be a second referendum before brexit?
[16:53:13] <fragalot> doubt it
[16:53:21] <fragalot> they tried a referendum once and it blew up in their face
[16:53:27] <gloops> rmu seems unlikely
[16:53:45] <rmu> whatever the result of a second referendum, it would be damaging to the uk
[16:53:57] <gloops> there is no change in the polling, another referendum could lead to prolonged uncertainty
[16:54:01] <andypugh> There isn’t really time, and it undermines any future referendums
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[16:55:07] <gloops> yes, if you defy the result of the vote, you might find the voters start defying govmt
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[16:56:22] <gloops> rumour has it the EU are going to concede ground on the irish backstop after christmas, there is some chance of may getting her deal through, small though
[16:56:35] <rmu> the uk can't just say "f*** it we leave, to hell with contracts" and think nobody else will notice
[16:56:49] <fragalot> gloops: where did you hear that?
[16:56:55] <gloops> rmu the UK tried to make a deal
[16:57:08] <rmu> last i looked there was a deal
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[16:57:27] <gloops> fragalot its just going round on social media
[16:57:34] <fragalot> I see
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[16:57:46] <rmu> russian interference ;)
[16:57:48] <fragalot> just like how marylin manson got his ribs removed so he can suck himself off kinda rumour
[16:58:10] <gloops> legally, the default position now is that if mays deal gets voted down, we leave 1 month later with no deal
[16:58:38] <fragalot> isn't the leave part march 29th, regardless?
[16:58:46] <gloops> yes
[16:58:48] <rmu> gloops: then you can't say the UK tried to make a deal
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[16:59:01] <gloops> mays vote jan 15th
[16:59:11] <gloops> 2 months later
[16:59:20] <fragalot> :P
[16:59:38] <rmu> fun times ahead
[17:00:22] <fragalot> indeed, given that half my household is UK living abroad
[17:00:38] <gloops> the DUP have pledged to support may until her deal gets voted down, then they part company, in that scenario, a vote of no confidence against the govmt could be called
[17:01:01] <fragalot> a vote of no confidence against may can no longer be called for at least 1 year
[17:01:03] <gloops> if lost that triggers a general election - it would be february by then lol
[17:01:15] <gloops> so we could leave the EU with no deal..and no govmt
[17:01:27] <fragalot> the no .gov part is fine
[17:01:33] <fragalot> we've got plenty of experience in that :D
[17:01:37] <rmu> i see the backstop as kind of insurance of EU against completely uncooperative future UL governments, it is an incentive to get a real trade deal
[17:01:46] <rmu> s/UL/UK/
[17:01:49] <gloops> it wouldnt be no confidence in may - it would be no confidence in the govmt
[17:02:20] <rmu> fragalot: that was a no confidence vote in the party, not govmnt
[17:02:32] <gloops> rmu the backstop is intolerable to many in the UK and ireland
[17:02:46] <fragalot> rmu: I still stand by my statement :D
[17:03:20] <rmu> gloops: yeah because they fear that nobody will make a trade deal and then status quo is prolonged
[17:03:34] <rmu> gloops: and it puts the pressure on UK
[17:03:56] <gloops> the northern ireland unionist refuse to have any different arrangement for NI than the UK mainland
[17:04:02] <rmu> gloops: as it was not possible to negotiate any trade deals in the time since brexit it is highly plausible that it will not be any easier in 2 years
[17:04:34] <gloops> rmu the backstop loads any negotiations in favour of the EU
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[17:05:03] <rmu> not really
[17:05:25] <fragalot> not quite.. but it allows life to continue as those negotiations are taking place
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[17:06:35] <andypugh> The iPhone app seems to want a password, and I don’t think I have one.
[17:06:54] <fragalot> have yuo tried 'Hunder6' ?
[17:07:14] <fragalot> Hunter*
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[17:19:23] <gloops> here it comes - The front page of tomorrow's Daily Telegraph: @DominicRaab: Cut business tax with EU 39bn #TomorrowsPaperToday
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[17:20:41] <gloops> the brexit blueprint for the UK was always a low tax low regs trading hub
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[17:21:54] <gloops> so under the terror of no deal - we offset the fictional trading crisis by offering huge tax breaks to encourage investment and trade - using the money we save from the EU lol
[17:22:59] <rmu> https://www.ft.com
[17:23:23] <rmu> nobody will want to do business with somebody that defrauds other countries of 39bn
[17:24:08] <gloops> defraud?
[17:25:03] <gloops> im sure the chinese will be very concerned
[17:26:44] <fragalot> not really
[17:26:52] <fragalot> the chinese game is ultra low wages
[17:27:11] <gloops> i mean concerned we didnt pay the EU
[17:28:00] <gloops> after all the EU books havent been signed off for 20 years, they cant exactly accuse others..
[17:28:29] <fragalot> most of that money is actually going to go to projects that the UK started,.. it's not just a EU bill
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[17:31:55] <gloops> they say we cant take part in said projects after brexit
[17:32:09] <gloops> anyway we're having our own space program now
[17:32:10] <rmu> gloops: all the UK residents that were employed by the EU and have pensions etc.., you want to leave them in the dust? how do you think these things should be settled?
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[17:33:30] <gloops> you mean the EU isnt going to honour the pensions?
[17:34:05] <rmu> what about other obligations the UK entered into that can more or less be attributed to the EU, that is all part of this 39bn "bill"
[17:34:41] <gloops> the UK may have to cut its losses with some things
[17:35:47] <fragalot> https://www.express.co.uk <== lol
[17:36:39] <gloops> theyll never go for that here anyway - free movement
[17:37:24] <rmu> hehe... 'Ms Lunde added the UK would “mess it all up for us the way you have messed it all up for yourselves”.'
[17:37:33] <fragalot> :D
[17:37:52] <gloops> the UK isnt messed up though, we're doing fine
[17:38:57] <gloops> the EU is being slightly overconfident in its achievements in these negotiations, the UK has quite a formidable reputation for diplomacy you know
[17:39:29] <gloops> in the old days the colonies used to call the UK 'the old fox'
[17:39:45] <rmu> it seems the UK lacks confidence in these negotiations, else we would have some result
[17:40:06] <gloops> are you sure you arent seeing the trap?
[17:40:34] <rmu> i don't see any trap, but i'm no negotiator
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[17:42:43] <rmu> but some negotiation strategy of UK surely seems odd, like the election. reminds of election in greece to get "strong mandate" by the people
[17:43:24] <rmu> somehow the whole negotiation between UK and EU reminds of the greece <-> EURO group negotiations lead by (on the greek side) varoufakis
[17:43:59] <gloops> well, parliament was well aware of the approach the eu would take
[17:45:05] <rmu> so you lead out a big trap for EU and now you decide which way EU will step in?
[17:45:42] <gloops> lol, alls im saying is, dont take the apparent UK position at face value, there may be several layers
[17:47:40] <rmu> who knows the UK position? what's in the news is incomplete and at best only half of the picture
[17:48:28] <gloops> it seemed funny that all the other credible experienced candidates dropped out of the tory leadership contest when may won - for no apparent reason
[17:48:32] <rmu> there is the official communicated position of you prime minister, that can be defined as "the" UK position
[17:48:41] <andypugh> gloops: Sadly I think you might be over-estimating the guile of our leaders.
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[17:49:50] <gloops> andypugh maybe, but there is just something about all this 'chaos' in govmt that smacks of an underlying plan
[17:49:58] <andypugh> I suspect that Johnson dropped out because the job at the moment is a poison chalice and the incumbent prime minister is dooemed to be unpopular, and Johnson couldn’t face being an unpopular PM.
[17:51:23] <rmu> gloops: if you want to look for an underlying plan ask putin, he has to be congratulated for trump and for brexit
[17:51:38] <gloops> andrea leadsom also mysteriously disappeared
[17:52:24] <gloops> all the time may has stalled and delayed, its like they wanted to end up with no deal right at the end
[17:53:29] <rmu> and then what? risk months of chaos?
[17:53:44] <gloops> then we are in a real negotiating position
[17:53:56] <rmu> like the greek?
[17:54:08] <gloops> you are 39 billion short, bmws have 20% tariffs
[17:54:21] <gloops> greece was bankrupt
[17:54:39] <rmu> it's not like the 39billion would flow immediately
[17:55:02] <gloops> you could borrow on it though
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[17:55:29] <rmu> and, you could also borrow on it if the UK doesn't pay
[17:56:11] <rmu> how many BMWs are imported into UK per year? that will surely be a big drop in the ocean.
[17:56:28] <gloops> i think the UK has just sounded the EU out and wont bother with their offer
[17:56:50] <gloops> 7% of bmw sales i think
[17:58:06] <rmu> so those super-rich brits magically won't buy BMWs any more because they re even more expensive? don't think so
[17:58:46] <rmu> but in the grand scheme of things, BMW doesn't matter
[17:58:56] <gloops> About 1 in 7 German cars are sold in the UK
[17:59:37] <rmu> go on and replace them with chinese cars
[17:59:43] <gloops> 14%
[18:00:37] <rmu> seems there is a demand that will magically vanish in 3 months
[18:00:43] <gloops> lol, your sales pitch isnt very convivial rmu
[18:01:36] <rmu> that is a fancy word
[18:02:22] <rmu> in my opinion, less cars sold is good for the planet, so there you go
[18:02:40] <gloops> you cant add 20% and not affect sales, obviously it doesnt mean sales will stop but 20% will cause a slump id think
[18:03:01] <gloops> but 70% of your workforce is in autos
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[18:03:16] <rmu> no
[18:03:31] <rmu> i think 30% of our workforce is in tourism
[18:04:41] <rmu> and it seems more than 50% of UK produced cars are exported into EU
[18:04:55] <gloops> yes the 70% figure was a stupid meme i think, it is a considerable number though
[18:06:03] <MarcelineVQ> It's nice to see the current state of affairs as some kind of plan, but from an outsider perspective it just looks like may is a traitor to the UK and that the government doesn't give a singular shit about enacting the people's will.
[18:06:11] <andypugh> 50% of UK produced cars is about 10 cars though.
[18:06:54] <jthornton> where is the mini cooper produced for USA?
[18:06:56] <gloops> Marceline yes im seeing that too, but hoping there is a plan lol
[18:06:57] <rmu> really? formula 1 stuff?
[18:07:46] <andypugh> We don’t have the motor industry that we used to have, that’s for sure.
[18:07:47] <rmu> MarcelineVQ: what should they have done?
[18:09:18] <gloops> we could make cars again, we have had some minor revival in motorcycles
[18:09:19] <MarcelineVQ> I'm not especially qualified to answer what should happen
[18:10:27] <rmu> "the will of the people" ignores thermodynamics
[18:10:36] <andypugh> https://www.youtube.com <- a collection of all the UK-made cars
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[18:11:40] <rmu> what about landrover, rover, mini, vauxhall and all those other UK brands?
[18:12:53] <gloops> all gone
[18:13:09] <rmu> jaguar?
[18:13:49] <gloops> we are still making sporty/prestige stuff, definitely got the know how - no real incentive for mass production though
[18:13:56] <rmu> where are they produced? vauxhall is just another name for opel and is now owned by PSA it seems, but i thought they did also produce in UK
[18:14:27] <gloops> all been bought by foreign investors
[18:14:39] <andypugh> It depends if you refer to UK-owned car companies or UK-made cars. That video was from 5 years ago, but I think that they all still exist.
[18:14:46] <rmu> UK made
[18:17:02] <rmu> https://www.acea.be
[18:19:03] <gloops> germany the big loser there then rmu
[18:19:08] <gloops> in the event of wto
[18:19:22] <rmu> wto?
[18:19:38] <gloops> world trade organisation tariffs on cars
[18:20:18] <rmu> seems prices of cars will go up in UK
[18:21:35] <gloops> if there are tariffs i doubt theyll be there long, but youd probably see an uptake in home produced cars in the UK, and a slump in german made imports
[18:22:02] <gloops> it also creates an opening for other makers to enter - indian, chinese etc
[18:23:31] <rmu> yeah, as i said, you will replace all those mercedes, bmws and audis of your superrich kids with chinese and indian imports
[18:23:51] <gloops> why not? they have your engines in them lol
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[18:24:17] <rmu> not really
[18:25:27] <rmu> BMW motors are produced not very far from here, about 1.3mio/year
[18:26:18] <rmu> also motors for lincoln and landrovers
[18:26:50] <rmu> but the days of ICEs are numbered anyway
[18:28:21] <andypugh> Indeed. I think I need a new job :-/
[18:29:31] <gloops> yes, even the days of wheels are numbered
[18:30:15] <rmu> but that number has another order of magnitude
[18:31:38] <rmu> in the end, the continuum hypthesis is undecidable, so it is anybodies guess if everthing is numbered
[18:33:42] <gloops> passenger drone tests seem successful enough
[18:35:46] <rmu> if you ignore thermodynamics it could work
[18:35:57] <jthornton> and cost
[18:37:35] <rmu> that's the same in the end
[18:38:20] <gloops> 100mph as the crow flies, no traffic, no emissions
[18:38:35] <gloops> no seatbelts
[18:40:18] <MarcelineVQ> no emissions is the kind of thing you'd see in an ad :> batteries don't charge themselves
[18:40:21] <rmu> line of sight with human-sized obstacles will not work in a city
[18:40:48] <gloops> gps guidance rmu
[18:41:10] <rmu> that doesn't even work for relatively few commercial airliners
[18:41:18] <gloops> vertical landing - easy parking
[18:41:26] <rmu> it won't do obstacle avoidance
[18:41:31] <jthornton> the big problem is flying is way more expensive than driving
[18:41:51] <rmu> it won't do collision avoidance
[18:42:02] <gloops> they can put a parcel on my front step
[18:42:43] <rmu> that is something completely different
[18:43:35] <rmu> your parcel won't complain (vomit, die or become a vegetable) if you subject it to multiple gs of acceleration
[18:43:57] <rmu> it has next to no weight compared to a human
[18:44:12] <rmu> and it doesn't go anywhere near 100mph
[18:45:23] <gloops> yes thats now, think 20 years from now
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[18:45:53] <rmu> thermodynamics won't change and i don't see mini-nukes powering drones in the next 20 years
[18:47:54] <rmu> flight-planning can probably be somewhat solved, given there are no "bad faith" actors
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[18:50:32] <jthornton> the only thing that makes any sense is a land based electric powered distribution system for packages
[18:51:02] <Tom_L> cannon shot delivery
[18:51:05] <Tom_L> ftw
[18:51:11] <jthornton> but as soon as you get out of the "big city" it would not be cost effective
[18:51:36] <jthornton> yea I can do that but it's gotta be smaller than a golf ball and pretty solid
[18:52:15] <Tom_L> iirc at one time they were testing electronic payloads in those big cannons
[18:52:21] <jthornton> unless the Paris Gun is still in service somewhere
[18:52:28] <gloops> i thought some of my stuff had been fired from a cannon
[18:52:45] <Tom_L> from the way it arrived?
[18:52:46] <rmu> energy efficiency of a gun is also very low
[18:52:57] <jthornton> aye
[18:53:03] <gloops> yeah looked like it had a rough landing
[18:53:13] <Tom_L> toss it in the drink and let the tide take it
[18:53:25] <jthornton> hamster fart power is the most cost effective
[18:53:45] <gloops> space elevator - into orbit, drop out over destination
[18:54:01] <Tom_L> jthornton, you got any windmills over there?
[18:54:09] <Tom_L> theyre everywhere here
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[18:54:21] <rmu> windmill-powered trebuchets
[18:54:27] <jthornton> I have determined that setting rat traps are a waste of time... much easier to just put cat food out
[18:54:38] <jthornton> not a one, too hilly for them
[18:55:04] <andypugh> Eh? How hilly is it?
[18:55:25] <jthornton> rolling hills mostly all very wooded
[18:55:47] <Tom_L> good for making moonshine
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[18:56:08] <MarcelineVQ> jthornton: car food?
[18:56:08] <jthornton> we have built a trebudhet as well as a ballista
[18:56:09] <MarcelineVQ> *cat
[18:56:18] <jthornton> aye cat food
[18:56:22] <MarcelineVQ> bad for them?
[18:56:38] <jthornton> well the cats you attract are bad for them yes
[18:56:42] <MarcelineVQ> hoho
[18:56:48] <andypugh> They don’t seem to mind putting wind turbines on hills in the UK https://goo.gl
[18:57:32] <Tom_L> those look like they came from the US
[18:57:35] <jthornton> aye but this is rural area, I see wind turbine parts going down the highway very often
[18:57:53] <jthornton> but none stop here
[18:58:10] <jthornton> well there is a tiny one at cherokee village
[18:58:22] <jthornton> but it's usually not spinning
[18:58:36] <Tom_L> all you need is one. it would power your whole shop and then some
[18:58:56] <jthornton> one cat?
[18:59:00] <rmu> same here: http://sternwind.at
[18:59:04] <Tom_L> one windmill
[18:59:23] <gloops> make one
[18:59:29] <Tom_L> cats are too lazy to produce much energy
[18:59:35] <jthornton> I have considered that for sure
[18:59:55] <gloops> just the batteries to find
[19:00:14] <andypugh> The (Ford) Dagenham Engine Plant is powered by wind turbines: https://www.treehugger.com
[19:00:37] <andypugh> If they can power an aluminium casting line they can power your workshop :-)
[19:01:08] <jthornton> aye but I can't afford a windmill that large lol
[19:01:27] <rmu> become a utility
[19:01:31] <Tom_L> http://www.thebackshed.com
[19:01:33] <Tom_L> washer motor
[19:01:47] <jthornton> you can sell energy back to the grid
[19:02:39] <Tom_L> bud i used to chat with in Au built one of those
[19:02:47] <Tom_L> lost all the blades in a windstorm
[19:02:53] <jthornton> that doesn't look very efficient, looks like it needs better wings
[19:02:53] <gloops> a lot of diy turbines seem to be based on car alternators
[19:02:55] <rmu> you could use old stepper motors as generators. nema34 should be good for 100-200 W
[19:03:20] <Tom_L> F&P pancake motors work pretty good
[19:03:22] <jthornton> hmm good idea I only nee 10 to power the lights
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[19:04:00] <jthornton> I do have a tower at the top of my property but it's just at the top of the trees
[19:04:40] <gloops> you only want an old 3kw generator
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[19:05:14] <gloops> $100 non runner
[19:08:19] <gloops> what do you do with the electric though?
[19:12:58] <andypugh> Charge a car?
[19:13:14] <rmu> monitor the chickens, open and close the coop-doors?
[19:13:34] <Tom_L> store it in deep cycle batteries and convert it to AC and use it
[19:14:52] <gloops> that seem to be the awkward part, making electric is straightforward, getting it to the TV isnt
[19:15:21] <rmu> storing it is the hard part
[19:18:07] <gloops> plus there are regulations here, they wont have you just wiring some deathtrap up to the grid, insurance may be void etc
[19:20:17] <rmu> hehe, that will go away with brexit ;)
[19:20:50] <rmu> copying is done. gn8.
[19:21:14] <gloops> goodnight
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[19:57:42] <flyback> https://www.youtube.com
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[20:04:06] <andypugh> flyback: Do you have LinuxCNC + a stepper machine? Have you spotted the “daisy.ngc” file?
[20:04:38] <flyback> no
[20:05:13] <andypugh> https://www.youtube.com
[20:05:45] <flyback> https://www.youtube.com
[20:06:12] <flyback> https://www.youtube.com
[20:09:15] <andypugh> The stepper organ seems to be like a cross beween a Hammond Organ and a Mellotron
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[20:36:47] <Lcvette> hey all, have a question regarding my MPG and wire length. I was wondering about using a DB15 cable between the front and back of the machine to make it a bit cleaner but was concerned if there is an issue the same as using a db25 cable over a certain length?
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[20:36:57] <Lcvette> cable length would be 15'
[20:37:25] <Lcvette> cable length of the MPG is probably another 6-8'
[20:39:08] <andypugh> Is rhe MPG analogue or digital
[20:39:20] <Lcvette> https://www.amazon.com
[20:39:23] <Lcvette> analog
[20:39:44] <andypugh> I would think it is probably alright then
[20:40:16] <Lcvette> ok
[20:40:25] <andypugh> A couple of CAT5 cables is probably cheaper though
[20:41:13] <Lcvette> i looked at those but the screw temrinal plugs are more and need twice as many
[20:41:21] <Rab> Yeah, their pinout diagram is a mess but it's basically just DC switching (and pulses for the encoder).
[20:41:40] <Lcvette> yeah it was fun deciphering that
[20:41:41] <Lcvette> lol
[20:41:55] <andypugh> And if you miss the odd pulse on an MPG you probably won’t even notice.
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[20:42:34] <Lcvette> :/
[20:42:45] <andypugh> Anyway.. Goodnight
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[20:42:52] <Lcvette> lol
[20:42:55] <Lcvette> night andy
[21:26:02] * Lcvette uploaded an image: image.png (134KB) < https://matrix.org >
[21:26:18] * Lcvette uploaded an image: image.png (180KB) < https://matrix.org >
[21:26:40] <Lcvette> anyone know for ceretain which of these two encoder types the mesa should use?
[21:26:50] <Lcvette> pcw_mea:
[21:26:54] <Lcvette> pcw_home:
[21:26:54] <Lcvette> ?
[21:27:03] <Lcvette> pcw_mesa:
[21:27:05] <Lcvette> ?
[21:30:18] <gregcnc> both will work, differential potentially has advantages
[21:31:46] <Lcvette> ok
[21:33:18] <gregcnc> I need to see if I can add a pendant to the lathe without going through Emco
[21:33:47] <Lcvette> you got an emco?
[21:33:55] <gregcnc> yes
[21:33:56] <Lcvette> pics man pic!
[21:34:31] <gregcnc> one is still in pieces, and now that i've had another that runs might be for much longer
[21:35:21] <Lcvette> you have 2 emcos?
[21:35:25] <Lcvette> what models?
[21:36:01] <gregcnc> http://www.dieselrc.com
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[22:57:09] <veek> https://en.wikipedia.org sleeve bearing - that descriptions a bit weird.. 'The bearing has a spiral groove in it that pumps fluid from a reservoir. This allows them to be safely mounted with the shaft horizontal (unlike sleeve bearings), since the fluid being pumped lubricates the top of the shaft' I thought a sleeve was just two metal rings mounted concentrically with some oil in between held in place by surface tension?
[22:57:43] <veek> what prevents a sleeve from being mounted horizontally?
[22:59:26] <veek> he's saying that the oil is held in a reservoir and when the shaft spins centrifugal forces will pull the oil out along the grooves.. ??
[23:01:11] <veek> http://e.cdn-hardware.com.br
[23:06:14] <veek> http://images.hardwarecanucks.com
[23:07:50] <veek> 'Sleeve bearings may be more likely to fail at higher temperatures, and may perform poorly when mounted in any orientation other than vertical.'??
[23:11:26] <MarcelineVQ> sleeves (bushings) do have the potential to squeeze when heated, which could lead to failure. dunno about the rest
[23:12:16] <veek> MarcelineVQ, because of thermal expansion of the rings.. inner will touch outer?
[23:12:53] <MarcelineVQ> yes
[23:20:11] <veek> okay so if the rifle bearing's mounted vertically, the oil's at the bottom and capillary action will draw the oil into the grooves.. so once the bearing spins.. all is hunky dory
[23:20:27] <veek> (thanks to Branes :p from #hardware)
[23:26:42] * veek purrs happily
[23:39:15] <veek> check this nice https://www.knowyourparts.com
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