#linuxcnc | Logs for 2018-12-19

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[02:21:44] <miss0r> mornin
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[02:40:24] <Deejay> moin
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[05:06:44] <miss0r> Gah! One of those days!... I had a quite long stickout on a part that I had to part off. not having much choice, I decided to give it a go. Sure enough, it snatched up...
[05:06:58] <miss0r> Trying to safe the part I put it in the cold saw to cut it off there.. Saw wanders!
[05:07:00] <miss0r> SCRAP!
[05:09:42] <miss0r> to make matters worse; i didn't have the a size quite fitting for the part. So I had to turn it down from a quite large piece. ALOT of work wasted
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[05:16:37] <XXCoder> aw :(
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[05:41:44] <rmu> why not saw it off on the lathe
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[05:57:23] <jthornton> morning
[05:57:32] <XXCoder> hey
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[06:07:22] <Tom_L> morning
[06:13:28] <Tom_L> 39°F Hi 55... brought to you by global warming
[06:20:11] <XXCoder> global warming is why it doesnt rain here in summers anymore
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[06:44:17] <Loetmichel> *MAAAN what a [censored]*... 12th 2mm tungsten carbide broken off... in PVC... bad thing if you have to grind down the shaft to plunge cut 26mm deep into a block of plastic with a 2mm two flute that has only 12mm cutting lenght originally and then the plastic swarf bakes to the ground shaft...
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[06:56:44] <SpeedEvil> Loetmichel: Just drill a through hole in the drill and pump coolant in
[06:57:32] <Loetmichel> SpeedEvil: i think a bit of 8 bar air and a fine nozzle aiming at the mill bit tip would be better
[06:58:14] <Loetmichel> considering that the PVC block is glued to the machine with water soluble double sided tape ,)
[06:59:05] <Loetmichel> problem is: i have 6 mill bits left... and still half a dozen parts to cut...
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[07:11:42] <rmu> Loetmichel: why don't you drill that with a twist drill
[07:12:11] <rmu> at least a pilot hole
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[07:51:43] <Loetmichel> rmu: slotting parts out of the 26mm thick plate
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[07:53:04] <Loetmichel> an no, not rectangular outline, that would be to simple ;)
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[07:53:22] <XXCoder> nonecludian?
[07:53:37] <Loetmichel> just curved corners
[07:53:49] <XXCoder> ah not THAT complex than ;)
[07:54:31] <Loetmichel> ... and some dents on the long sides to accomodate other parts it will interlock with ;)
[07:55:59] <XXCoder> :)
[07:56:52] <rmu> Loetmichel: drill pilot holes at some strategic places. PVC probably works better with 1-flute HSS?
[07:57:26] <Loetmichel> probably..just none at hand
[07:57:39] <rmu> pilots could be smaller, e.g. 1.5mm
[07:57:56] <Loetmichel> and i doubt they would stay straight at 2mm diameter and 26mm deep cut ;)
[07:58:12] <Loetmichel> a hss mill bit i mean ;)
[08:00:41] <rmu> whatever. the proof is in the pudding.
[08:21:29] <Loetmichel> rmu: dont misunderstand me, i am gradeful for the advice, but it wouldnt work here for the lack of HSS tooling
[08:22:23] <Loetmichel> only thing i have at hand are 1/8" mill bits in tungsten carbide and 2 flute for aluminium (polished flutes)
[08:27:34] <Loetmichel> grateful
[08:37:09] <gregcnc> didn't the quote include the required tooling?
[08:45:32] <rmu> probably one of those "ASAP" or "needs to be done in next 30 min" jobs
[08:49:00] <gregcnc> neither coincides with breaking 12 tools
[09:05:24] <Loetmichel> rmu: "customer was assured that the parts are in the usps wagon since yesterday" type of job, correct
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[10:14:39] <Loetmichel> gregcnc: the "quote" is just "oh, we forgot that the front lids of those 24PCs we want to deliver yesterday are missing some plstic inserts, do something, Loetmichel!!!!111"
[10:15:18] <Loetmichel> i.E: we are already behind on building them and now i noticed that noone ordered those parts
[10:15:46] <Loetmichel> and the stock PVC i have here is barely enough to make them if i only take 2mm cuts around the parts
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[10:33:41] <gregcnc> sounds well organized
[10:59:50] <Loetmichel> indeed
[11:03:45] <Loetmichel> that whole order was chaotic from the start.. i had built the prototype last year and before i could make a parts list it was sent to the customer.
[11:04:23] <Loetmichel> that is biting us now when the customer ordered "24 of that box EXACTLY identical please!"
[11:04:46] <Loetmichel> and of course before end of year... budget maintaining you know?
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[11:12:45] <PL7icnc> Hi Some Germans Here
[11:15:58] <PL7icnc> Seems this Channel is only alive on late USA Timezone
[11:19:36] <PL7icnc> off we go
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[11:20:52] <rmu> hmm. this PL7icnc guy is very impatient
[11:25:52] <Loetmichel> indeed
[11:26:03] <Loetmichel> especially because i happen to know that germans are here
[11:26:06] <Loetmichel> :-)
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[13:04:50] <fragalot> rmu: The Old Fox definitely has a plan, and it is obviously visible here. https://www.youtube.com
[13:05:34] <rmu> hihi... "such a stupid woman"
[13:05:45] <fragalot> it gets better
[13:07:02] <rmu> the whole british parliament is somewhat funny
[13:07:26] * fragalot murmurs right honorable lady murmur BOOOOOOOOO
[13:07:40] <fragalot> all they're missing is vuvuzelas
[13:09:07] <fragalot> OUDEERVES
[13:09:10] <fragalot> :P
[13:11:36] <rmu> that is some pissing contest. all caps.
[13:13:00] <fragalot> there is a technical term for this
[13:13:03] <fragalot> it's called "unworking"
[13:13:47] <fragalot> don't sabotage.. just obstruct
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[13:35:57] <fragalot> evenin' gloops
[13:36:54] <gloops> evening
[13:40:35] <Loetmichel> fragalot: at least the british parliament is restrained enough to not have brawls every other day... saw a few pictures of some east european countrys parliament where (according to the picture text) a fistfight to clear the disagreement seemed to be the usual way of solving problems ;)
[13:40:56] <fragalot> wasn't that hungary? :D
[13:41:47] <Loetmichel> may be
[13:41:50] <Loetmichel> cant remember
[13:43:16] <gloops> yes the little leader called Theresa May a 'stupid woman' today
[13:44:11] <gloops> personally i dont see anything wrong with that, but you know, political correctness and all
[13:44:49] <fragalot> depends on which way you want to swing the stick
[13:45:00] <fragalot> obviously if it is in your own interest to say it's mysogeny, you will.
[13:45:17] <fragalot> if it isn't, then 'woman' just means.. well, what it means.
[13:45:19] <gloops> yes thats how it works
[13:45:51] <gloops> even if it wasnt an attack on every female who ever lived, the opposition will try to spin it as such
[13:47:34] <rmu> tear gas in parliament
[13:48:25] <gloops> mostly pantomime
[13:49:54] <gloops> the brits seem to judge leadership qualities by a persons ability to deliver searing personal attacks in a civil manner, and also how the same is received
[13:52:01] <fragalot> whats' civil about moaning out of turn
[13:52:55] <gloops> yes that was very civil, thats why its been noticed
[13:52:58] <gloops> wasnt
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[14:22:24] <rmu> https://youtu.be
[14:24:20] <fragalot> love the little poke
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[14:25:12] <gloops> chimps arent actually our ancestors
[14:25:36] <Inline> koalas are ?
[14:25:40] <Inline> lol
[14:25:46] <gregcnc> you've seen black friday sales in the US?
[14:26:19] <gloops> we have a common ancestor with chimps
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[14:30:59] <andypugh> I would rather have a chimp as an ancestor than be a chimps ancestor
[14:32:08] <Loetmichel> gloops: isnt that hypotetical ape called the "missing link" for exactly the reason that there are no fossils of it?
[14:32:22] <Loetmichel> that ancestor of both chimps and humans
[14:32:39] <gloops> not much difference anyway, we share about 80% of dna with snails
[14:33:10] <gloops> Loetmichel i think theyve pretty much filled in the gaps now
[14:33:31] <gloops> some large bumbling ape like creature laid around in a warm forest
[14:34:04] <Loetmichel> yes, but still didnt find fossils of it as far as i know
[14:34:20] <fragalot> gloops: did it have large feet?
[14:34:35] <gloops> yes with hair between the toes fragalot
[14:34:49] <fragalot> seems we have more in common than I originally thought
[14:42:27] <fragalot> lovely windows update bug here
[14:42:40] <fragalot> I can't listen to headphones, or stream to an external device, without having the internal laptop speakers on
[14:42:49] <fragalot> muting those speakers, also mutes the external device
[14:42:58] <fragalot> lowering the volume of those speakers, also lowers the volume of the external device
[14:43:11] <andypugh> Isn’t that what you want?
[14:43:13] <andypugh> :-)
[14:43:33] <gloops> .../format C:
[14:43:52] <fragalot> I want to hear my 603 series B&W speakers, not this tinny crap :D
[14:43:59] <fragalot> especially because there is a time delay between the 2
[14:44:53] <gloops> i had something similar on PC, went right by itself
[14:49:46] <gloops> well, there are no used single phase motors for sale anywhere near me, when there have been loads all year
[14:53:21] <rmu> i have RGB speakers
[14:54:20] * fragalot pets rmu
[14:56:48] <gloops> ive also received a voucher from machine mart - VAT free on ÂŁ50 +
[14:58:28] <fragalot> 'tis the season
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[15:21:39] <andypugh> MachineMart sell motors. But not very good ones
[15:23:37] <gloops> yeah i just had a look andypugh, never had one off them and cant imagine them being great, probably be ok for what i want though, ill see if anything comes up on marketplace or ebay local i think for a while longer
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[15:24:47] <andypugh> Where are you?
[15:25:19] <gloops> near rotherham
[15:25:56] <gloops> its not urgent just a little project
[15:26:00] <andypugh> There are probably some in my dad’s workshop. I will be up there on Saturday.
[15:26:25] <andypugh> Likely to be old-school ones with centrifugal switches.
[15:27:05] <gloops> well, i wouldnt go to any trouble or anything
[15:27:06] <fragalot> i've got a load of sheet metal jobbo's, and a few waterpump motors
[15:27:52] <fragalot> both are good options if you have zero requirements for start-up torque, noise, or general durability
[15:29:00] <gloops> ive got an old delta but only 1/6th HP, need at least 1/2 preferably more
[15:29:39] <gloops> the old motors seem better to me
[15:30:24] <fragalot> they are typically more overbuilt, yeah
[15:31:39] <andypugh> I have a 1/2 hp but it’s hooked up to a VFD for general bodgery uses, and so I think I would prefer to keep it.
[15:32:42] <gloops> ive got a 3/4 but its the original for a myford wood lathe, pretty reluctant to use it for a saw
[15:33:02] <andypugh> My christmas project just hit a snag, the company I ordered a critical thing from just refunded the order. No explanation, just a paypal refund.
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[15:34:13] <fragalot> gloops: set up a line shaft
[15:34:18] <gloops> ive had a couple of those 'sorry your item isnt in stock do you want to wait or have a refund' recently, only small things though
[15:34:51] <gloops> i think its a scam of kinds - they never did have UK stock its coming from china
[15:35:24] <gloops> fragalot i have to move stuff about to use it lol, line shaft wouldnt really work
[15:35:40] <fragalot> there's a name for that... banggood has asked me if I was interested in donig that
[15:35:44] <fragalot> forgot what they called it
[15:35:47] <fragalot> drop shipments
[15:36:27] <gloops> annoying when youre waiting for something to complete a job
[15:36:47] <gloops> like would have been here by the time i got the message
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[15:42:16] * fragalot hates how youtube decided that it should start translating certain YT video titles
[15:42:21] <fragalot> but only some of them
[15:42:30] <fragalot> and only half of the title
[15:42:34] <fragalot> ._.
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[16:08:39] <fragalot> well. I tried something, and that's made it worse. :D
[16:08:59] <fragalot> now my laptop's speakers are nowhere to be found anymore in windows' device list or settings.. and all they play is what the microphone picks up
[16:09:15] <fragalot> the microphone is also gone fom the settings
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[16:18:20] <rmu> just got a new laptop today, came with win10 home. not possible to set up account without so-called "security questions".
[16:18:29] <rmu> got rid of it and installed ubuntu lts
[16:19:39] <rmu> don't understand why anybody wants to use windows
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[16:32:08] <andypugh> Well, it looks likely that the Arduino Nano doesn’t have enough memory to handle the Fwd Kinematics of a Faro arm
[16:32:20] <andypugh> But then it only has 2k
[16:33:15] <andypugh> So I guess I will use an Itsy Bitsy M4 instead, whoch has 100x the memory amd 10x the CPU (at least)
[16:41:55] <Deejay> gn8
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[17:06:20] <Tom_L> andypugh why are you trying to run a Faro arm with an arduino?
[17:06:31] <andypugh> Why not?
[17:06:53] <Tom_L> just wondered if there was a specifc reason
[17:07:02] <andypugh> Mainly because I have an 8 channel 24 bit ADC card that speaks SPI, and that’s easy with Arduino
[17:08:53] <Tom_L> do they interface it with any cad packages?
[17:09:07] <rmu> do you really get 24 bits out of it? that seem like a hell of dynamic range
[17:09:29] <andypugh> It is reading 5 places of decimals stable.
[17:09:35] <andypugh> So no, but it;s not bad
[17:09:51] <rmu> 5 places is about 17bits
[17:09:56] <andypugh> And that’s running of USB power
[17:10:21] <andypugh> With stabilised reference voltages it might do better.
[17:10:45] <andypugh> Maybe I will feed it from a lab PSU and see what happens.
[17:10:57] <rmu> you have to take care of parasitic thermocouples, leak currents and electrochemical elements if you really want to get near 24bit
[17:11:28] <andypugh> Indeed. That will all come later if I ever get it working
[17:12:27] <rmu> you are measuring potentiometers?
[17:12:38] <rmu> variable resistors?
[17:12:38] <andypugh> I have one of these, I wonder if the output is stable? https://www.conrad.com
[17:13:19] <andypugh> Yes, the arm has potentiometers in the joints
[17:13:38] <andypugh> I havent done and calculations yet of accuracy or linearity.
[17:13:45] <Tom_L> non certified
[17:13:55] <rmu> then supply voltage variation should not matter if you take it as reference (rationmetric measurement)
[17:14:04] <Tom_L> but they say it's good nuf
[17:14:10] <andypugh> (I found mine in a skip, but I am struggling to see the justification for the price)
[17:15:29] <rmu> 40 V 6 A 120 W seems odd
[17:16:19] <andypugh> If you are interested, this is the ADC board. https://www.ebay.co.uk
[17:17:05] <andypugh> The ADS1256 is a TI chip. Whether the ones from China have ever been to Texas is a different question.
[17:17:10] <rmu> when i get my stm32f373 16 bit ADCs to perform i will upgrade to 24bit ;)
[17:17:45] <Tom_L> i had some spi max chips i think were 20 or 24 bit
[17:18:09] <andypugh> The ItsyBitsy M4 has enough ADCs to run the arm itself, but 12 bits seems to be asking a bit much.
[17:21:10] <andypugh> I am wondering how to calibrate the joint angles. It’s quite a puzzle
[17:22:02] <andypugh> I did buy a vernier protractor a while ago, but I don’t trust it
[17:22:04] <rmu> is this a CMM arm?
[17:22:11] <Tom_L> yes
[17:22:13] <andypugh> Yes, sort of.
[17:22:39] <Tom_L> do they give an output voltage / angle relation in the docs?
[17:22:44] <andypugh> It was what Faro made before they realsied that there was a market for CMM arms. It was designed to measure skeletal deforities
[17:22:51] <andypugh> Docs?
[17:22:59] <Tom_L> no docs?
[17:23:09] <Tom_L> in the data sheet
[17:23:30] <andypugh> It tells you how to plug it in to the PC (which, apparently, has s 287 maths coprocessor)
[17:23:42] <rmu> and different joint angles can lead to the same "pose" of the end?
[17:24:07] <andypugh> Yes, but forward kins is the easy kins
[17:24:41] <rmu> then you probably could put the end on some fixed position / orientation and wiggle around with the joints
[17:24:48] <andypugh> In fact it is theoretically possible to derive the DH parameters from measuring fixed points using different joint positions and using clever maths
[17:25:57] <rmu> i remember evil stuff like jacobi matrices and numerical "algorithms" that won't converge ;)
[17:26:00] <rmu> brr
[17:26:15] <rmu> didnt touch stuff like that in 15 years
[17:26:47] <andypugh> This, by the way, is why I don’t trust my vernier protractor: https://photos.app.goo.gl
[17:27:28] <andypugh> Something very Chinese about that.
[17:27:47] <rmu> hehe
[17:28:54] <andypugh> (As in, they have sent it out the door at minimum cost without the most rudimentary of checks)
[17:29:21] <rmu> seems less than hald a degree off
[17:29:45] <andypugh> Well, yes, but if that’s as good as it gets it might as well not bother with the vernier
[17:30:34] <andypugh> It’s reasonably nicely made. It’s just wrong,
[17:31:00] <rmu> it has a resolution of 2 arcmins, thats about 4 decimal places for the circle
[17:32:02] <rmu> so not nearly good enough to index your arm even if it was accurate
[17:32:55] <andypugh> I have one of these too https://goo.gl
[17:33:47] <andypugh> Which is probably more reliable (I stole it off my dad, given that he can’t walk or really see or talk, he won’t miss it :-(
[17:34:16] <rmu> sorry to hear that.
[17:34:40] <andypugh> It’s not a great situation.
[17:34:47] <rmu> hmm. you could try a sine-plate and gauge pins / gauge blocks
[17:35:09] <andypugh> Sine bars aren’t good for big angles.
[17:35:09] <rmu> to create a very precise angle and then align the arm parallel to it
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[17:35:54] <rmu> combination of sine bar and granite angle blocks
[17:36:06] <andypugh> I am thinking of an aluminium plate with V-blocks to clamp the arms at zero, +90 and -90 angles
[17:39:10] <andypugh> The elbows don’t really lend themselves to accurate clamping or measurement. https://photos.app.goo.gl
[17:40:25] <andypugh> There are two joints in that picture. The wrist is probably even harder than the elbow to set to zero. (it doesn’t help that the two elbows each side have dfferent offsets)
[17:41:34] <andypugh> Actually, that’s not true, having re-checked.
[17:41:48] <andypugh> So it’s fairly easy with a flat plate
[17:42:06] <rmu> the joints don't have some sort of index switch?
[17:43:00] <andypugh> No, as they are absolute potentimeters
[17:43:32] <andypugh> (I suspect that bringing the arms back for calibration and cert was their main income stream)
[17:43:49] <rmu> so the question is how is that calibration done
[17:44:07] <rmu> i would probably try the inverse kinematics approach
[17:44:15] <andypugh> I imagine with quite expensive jigs
[17:44:41] <andypugh> (Also, they made them, they knew the dimensions)
[17:45:12] <rmu> hmm. not knowing the arm lengths is a problem.
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[17:46:09] <rmu> i think one of the stmbl guys should know about faro arms
[17:50:15] <andypugh> He does, he owns lovely one, maybe two.
[17:50:32] <andypugh> But I think he is using the original controller.
[17:51:02] <andypugh> (I saw it in Stuttgart, were you there?)
[17:51:51] <rmu> yes i also was there
[17:52:41] <andypugh> I am terrible with names, especially when folk don’t use their real names. :-)
[17:52:54] <rmu> AFAIR the arm didn't really work that well
[17:53:34] <andypugh> Given the overlap between here, Stuttgart and EMFcamp I think that there are only actually a few dozen real people in the word.
[17:53:46] <rmu> you were the guy with the emco clone ?
[17:54:15] <andypugh> No, but I was the one who spent all the time working on it.
[17:54:27] <rmu> hehe.. ok
[17:54:43] <andypugh> And I don’t think it’s a clone
[17:56:01] <rmu> the bed and ways looked exaclty like my emco compact 8, perhaps somebody rebranded something or joint venture or whatever
[17:56:04] <andypugh> It is a Denford Orac.
[17:56:42] <andypugh> Denford: http://www.lathes.co.uk
[17:57:14] <andypugh> Orac: https://www.youtube.com
[17:57:53] <andypugh> (No, really, that is where the name comes from)
[17:59:23] <rmu> there seems to be no end to british scifi series in the style of dr who ;)
[18:00:02] <rmu> didn't know that thanks
[18:01:57] <andypugh> Blake’s 7 was pretty good (and rather dark)
[18:02:56] <andypugh> Also, the baddie was nastier than Darth Vader, and a lot cuter: https://www.youtube.com
[18:04:56] <rmu> i will have to check out the whole series methinks...
[18:13:08] <andypugh> I wonder if there is a higher res version likely?
[18:13:43] <andypugh> I can’t believe we used to watch VHS :-)
[18:14:54] * jthornton still has a VHS but doesn't know if it will even work with the new TV
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[19:37:58] <Tom_L> jthornton, burn em all to DVD
[19:38:21] <Tom_L> https://www.amazon.com
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[20:43:33] <infornography> I want nachos
[20:44:58] <norias> bummer
[20:45:10] <infornography> life is pain
[20:46:26] <norias> true
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[21:53:24] <veek> what's 5x50x110 wrt drill bit sizes.. 110 is the length and 5 is the dia.. what's 50?
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[21:57:53] <Rab> veek, guessing flute length...or maybe shank.
[21:59:14] <Rab> Or 5mm dia, 50mm length, 110 degree tip.
[22:00:03] <infornography> https://www.ewarehouse.atkc.com.my
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[22:00:24] <infornography> Working length (L1): 50.0mm?
[22:00:40] <infornography> I guess flutes then
[22:04:08] <veek> ah thank you!
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[22:36:15] <flyback> https://www.youtube.com <---- SOMEONE PWNED HIS arm with wanker.c
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[23:30:40] <ziper> I used one of those combinations drill and tap for the first time
[23:30:44] <ziper> worked better than expected
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[23:41:44] <MarcelineVQ> they're pretty neat, some even have a chamfering blade at the end to clean the hole edge
[23:41:58] <MarcelineVQ> well, countersink I guess you'd call that
[23:44:11] <roycroft> i just did a bunch of marking up timber with one of the new mechanical pencils i ordered from japan
[23:44:17] <roycroft> i have to say, it works brilliantly
[23:44:22] <roycroft> it's all but impossible to break a lead
[23:44:58] <roycroft> the tip of the pencil is cone-shaped where it enters the body, and it rotates around when you put pressure on the lead, so the lead does not snap off
[23:45:15] <roycroft> and they're cheap
[23:45:23] <roycroft> the only drawback is it takes about a month to get them
[23:45:59] <roycroft> but i would say they're game changers for folks who use pencils on a regular basis in a shop
[23:46:18] <roycroft> https://www.amazon.com