#linuxcnc | Logs for 2019-01-10

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[01:22:47] <CaptHindsight> what is the going rate per hour for PLC programming?
[01:23:09] <CaptHindsight> mostly AB PLC's
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[02:53:07] <miss0r> mornin'
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[04:13:54] <Deejay> moin
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[05:47:53] <jthornton> morning
[05:49:57] <XXCoder> yo
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[07:51:21] <Net|> https://offgridsite.com
[07:58:23] <elmo40> that is interesting.
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[09:07:44] <syyl> hey
[09:07:59] <syyl> the 12000bps myford just got cheaper
[09:08:40] <syyl> https://www.ebay.co.uk
[09:08:43] <syyl> slightly cheaper
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[10:58:12] <pcw_home> that's a new one to me spam/virus as .iso file
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[11:26:47] <Jymmm> pcw_home: ???
[11:27:32] <Jymmm> pcw_home: iso virus???
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[11:32:56] <CaptHindsight> what is the going rate per hour for PLC programming?
[11:34:01] <Jymmm> how many hours?
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[11:35:09] <gregcnc> Costco PLC programming or group buy?
[11:35:30] <CaptHindsight> AB PLC's
[11:35:56] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: whatever it takes
[11:36:26] <CaptHindsight> does your hourly rate vary by the number of hours required?
[11:37:05] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Well, what I'm getting at is this a one off job, maintains? on going? short/long term?
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[11:38:29] <CaptHindsight> wow, does it matter? OK, figure it's a new machine design, could take from a day to a week
[11:39:01] <CaptHindsight> might be a few weeks per machine
[11:40:41] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Well, if it's a one off job (update/revision) I'd charge more due to the short duration. If it's longer will include maintance contract, then you could charge less just to keep the client(s) long term.
[11:41:00] <CaptHindsight> can't source it ti India since the freight takes too long
[11:41:34] <Jymmm> Plc Programmer Annual Salary ($74,070 Avg | Jan 2019)
[11:41:47] <Jymmm> That's as an employee, not a contractor
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[11:43:44] <CaptHindsight> thats only ~ $37/hr
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[11:46:32] <gloops> hmm, french industrial output down, as well as germany, looking like a recession is here
[11:46:45] <gloops> german car exports down 10%
[11:47:20] <CaptHindsight> China has been slowing down the past few years
[11:47:46] <CaptHindsight> is this any surprise about world production slowing?
[11:47:47] <gregcnc> we're shutting down completely
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[11:49:56] <gloops> well, fragile situation in europe, and china i suppose
[11:51:26] <CaptHindsight> China managed to pull up a few hundred million from poverty the past 3 decades....
[11:51:50] <flyback> gregcnc, where are you?
[11:51:53] <CaptHindsight> all the while the west has been working on destroying the middle class
[11:52:08] <flyback> yeah china has softened a bit on their hard communism
[11:52:21] <flyback> I am not saying it's a great place to be but they generated so much wealth they had to loosen a bit
[11:52:24] <gregcnc> USA
[11:52:25] <flyback> venezula is just fucked
[11:52:29] <flyback> gregcnc, ah me too
[11:52:46] <CaptHindsight> China has run out of places to sell its crap and is now trading loans and building projects for natural resources and control
[11:52:51] <flyback> I heard you say shutting down I figured mabye you were talking about germany, their chancelor is a diptshit
[11:53:13] <gregcnc> no, we need a wall to stay open for business
[11:53:22] <CaptHindsight> flyback: you have it backwards, China is doubling down on comminess
[11:53:22] <gloops> if the germany economy tanks the euro will collapse
[11:53:44] <flyback> I hope uk does pull out of the eu
[11:53:53] <flyback> even if it's only temporary
[11:53:53] <gloops> i suspect an economic death spiral with global repercussions is looming
[11:54:05] <gregcnc> you suspect a lot of things
[11:54:14] <CaptHindsight> it's only bad for the middle classes in the west
[11:54:15] <gloops> flyback it doesnt look like the elite are going to allow it
[11:54:21] <gregcnc> fake money and exponential growth just isn't sustainable
[11:54:26] <flyback> because the eu has become a bunch of fatass arrogant jerks who lost the memory of the word "no"
[11:54:35] <flyback> gloops, oh well the attempt was still awesome
[11:54:36] <CaptHindsight> China is trying to keep their middle from becoming upset..
[11:54:40] <flyback> it make the eu flinch
[11:55:03] <gloops> there wont be an EU in its present form for long anyway i dont think
[11:55:14] <flyback> im ok with a eu
[11:55:19] <flyback> I just don't like the arrogance
[11:55:34] <gloops> yes its pissed a lot of people off
[11:55:36] <CaptHindsight> but in case they do they are already keeping them under constant surveillance and unaware of the outside world
[11:55:52] <flyback> "how dare you disagree with the eu"
[11:55:55] <flyback> that's what caused brexit
[11:56:00] <CaptHindsight> as much as they can
[11:56:41] <flyback> gloops, if brexit caused members of the eu to stop for 1ms and ask for another opinion
[11:56:50] <flyback> instead of just rubber stamping everything
[11:56:52] <flyback> then it's awesome
[11:56:56] <flyback> EVEN FOR ONLY 1MS
[11:57:03] <SpeedEvil> No, it isn't.
[11:57:07] <gloops> flyback and now the elite in our own parliament is trying to thwart the brexit vote
[11:57:13] <flyback> we aren't going to agree on this speed sorry
[11:57:13] <SpeedEvil> What caused brexit is internal conservative party politics.
[11:57:19] <gloops> less than 50% chance we will leave
[11:57:32] <SpeedEvil> It was never actually intended to happen, no plans were made for it at all.
[11:57:49] <SpeedEvil> And the train continues rolling on as the leadership can't back down.
[11:58:16] <gloops> they conned us like this when we joined the EU - first referendum we said NO, they doctored the words of the deal a bit had another vote and got YES
[11:58:17] <flyback> anyways time for work
[11:58:40] <flyback> 12pm I leave around 1230
[11:58:45] <flyback> nothing you said SpeedEvil :)
[11:59:17] <flyback> I spend 1-2 hrs sitting on irc waiting for my dieased colon to make up it's mind
[11:59:31] <flyback> fortunitely work understands which sis why I am still there after 12 yrs and got a raise
[11:59:38] <flyback> bbl
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[12:00:04] <flyback> SpeedEvil understands
[12:00:08] <flyback> way worse than I do
[12:00:29] <flyback> feeling like a prisoner in your own body
[12:00:31] <flyback> cheers
[12:00:38] <gloops> i wonder if my mrs will be ok with pork chops for the 3rd day in a row
[12:00:50] <flyback> do something different with them
[12:00:56] <Rab> flyback, I thought you were in Canada.
[12:00:58] <flyback> bbq etc
[12:01:08] <flyback> rab no I just hate canadians (not really, running joke)
[12:01:12] <gloops> easier to just fry
[12:01:13] <flyback> peace
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[12:18:14] <CaptHindsight> no go cannuck yourself?!
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[12:19:40] <The_Ball> My toolsetting probe is triggering during heavy cuts, what logic do you guys use to inhibit triggering?
[12:19:46] <ziper> CaptHindsight, have you machined composites?
[12:21:39] <CaptHindsight> ziper: machined and printed
[12:22:07] <CaptHindsight> composites just means multiple materials >1
[12:22:15] <ziper> carbon fiber?
[12:22:22] <CaptHindsight> cheese and concrete
[12:22:47] <CaptHindsight> CF is machined all the time
[12:23:15] <CaptHindsight> cheap epoxy and CF
[12:23:48] <ziper> how close is fiberglass? That is, can I make up a test part from FG and find a process that works and trust it will work in CF?
[12:24:22] <CaptHindsight> thin sheets? <3mm
[12:25:05] <ziper> more like 10 or 20mm
[12:25:06] <CaptHindsight> well they are similar but that is an oversimplification
[12:25:41] <CaptHindsight> this should cue the "I work with CF sheet all the time and use this tool and settings people"
[12:26:03] <gloops> not much difference for machining i wouldnt have thought
[12:26:06] <gloops> XXCoder
[12:26:10] <gloops> works with it
[12:26:18] <ziper> i'm looking at making parts in a mold and doing the machining before removing them from the mold
[12:26:36] <ziper> such as facing the tops flat
[12:26:45] <gloops> what does the machining consist of?
[12:26:55] <CaptHindsight> are you laminating or mixing epoxy with short fiber strands?
[12:27:06] <ziper> laminating
[12:27:57] <gloops> i dont see why not re flattening, some kind of clamping to keep the part steady in the mold though
[12:28:11] <CaptHindsight> epoxy is a thermoset so it won't soften much while cutting, it will just start to burn and decompose when too hot
[12:28:55] <ziper> coolant?
[12:29:09] <ziper> oh, slotting also
[12:30:22] <gloops> burr cutters might work better, im sure xxcoder machines this day in day out
[12:31:23] <gregcnc> tooling for composite is readily available. in similar designs as wood tooling, up/down/compression
[12:31:35] <gregcnc> special drills
[12:33:15] <gloops> https://www.youtube.com
[12:33:26] <gloops> looks like diamond burrs
[12:34:47] <ziper> making that from stock bugs me
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[12:38:08] <gloops> thinking of molding the outer shape and top - then skim the bottom ?
[12:39:13] <gloops> i suppose you could mold both halves and sandwich them with foam
[12:39:24] <gregcnc> making one wastes a lot of material, but that would nest well in quantity
[12:39:29] <gloops> still quicker to cut out lol
[12:40:32] <ziper> a couple reasons. its wasteful (doesnt really matter), but also that its not cored (important for weight critical applications) and that the fibers arn't actually running the direction that matters
[12:42:50] <gloops> cored?
[12:43:06] <gregcnc> channel/tube
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[12:43:12] <ziper> foam
[12:43:20] <ziper> or honeycomb if you want to get exotic
[12:44:09] <gregcnc> a few frames use tubes for the motors
[12:44:49] <gregcnc> none are really optimized because they need to be pretty crashproof for fun
[12:50:55] <gloops> hmm, very thin to press out with a bag though
[12:51:03] <gregcnc> her's one https://www.rcgroups.com
[12:51:17] <gloops> in a closed mold
[12:53:41] <gloops> looks pretty much like two halves gregcnc
[12:54:10] <gregcnc> two piece mold
[12:54:28] <gloops> closed?
[12:55:28] <gloops> if you made two halves one male one female, stick the parts together, fill with foam
[12:56:00] <gregcnc> stuff actually goes inside
[12:56:02] <gregcnc> https://youtu.be
[12:56:06] <gloops> im not up with advanced laminating techniques but youve got some pain on doing that in a closed mold i would think
[12:56:26] <gregcnc> any optmial mold work is real work
[12:58:27] <gloops> they arent bagging it or anything, so straightforward, probably filling it with foaming resin
[12:58:50] <gregcnc> you missed it, there was a bladder, which is inflated after the mold is closed
[12:59:01] <gloops> ahh missed it then, so it is bagged
[12:59:19] <gloops> some faffing about there then, still i suppose once you done a few
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[13:24:44] <Loetmichel> *MAAAN* german bureaucracy. lost one of my license plates off the car the friday before xmas. NOW i got an appointment at the Registration office. Went there. waited for 45 min, got called. explained my case, gave them all the paperwork and the remaining license plate: forgot to have the "copy of title" that is to be kept at the car... (had the title paper itself).. "sorry, we have to have
[13:24:44] <Loetmichel> the copy, you get a new license plate, so those get made anew. well make a new appointment for you. Di. 22 jan.." Are they insane?
[13:27:08] <fragalot> isn't just german, new plates always take forever
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[13:29:00] <fragalot> or is 22nd of jan the date at which you can request the plates, meaning you won't have them until feb?
[13:30:21] <Loetmichel> fragalot: its the next time i can request them
[13:31:00] <Loetmichel> but they usually have the process streamlined enough that you can walk out with new plates a few hours later
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[13:31:30] <Loetmichel> even one hour later if you are quicke to buy the new plates so they can stick their stamps on.
[13:33:06] <gloops> lol, we just go to the car shop with the logbook
[13:33:13] <gloops> make one yourself
[13:34:02] <fragalot> gloops: here the rear place is an official one & the front is a "DIY copy"
[13:34:14] <fragalot> plate*
[13:34:42] <fragalot> but the official plate ordeal gets sorted by the insurance company
[13:34:42] <gloops> sounds a bit dramatic lol
[13:35:00] <fragalot> so it just shows up in the mail
[13:35:52] <gloops> i dont know how id feel if a cop came to the window and said 'do you realise your rear plate isnt a regulation plate sir?'
[13:36:06] <Loetmichel> gloops: that would be "urkundenfälschung"
[13:36:20] <Loetmichel> license plates are official documents in germany
[13:36:22] <gloops> Loetmichel that sounds about right
[13:37:23] <gloops> im not sure we even have cops anymore, i see the odd car with police on it
[13:38:45] <CaptHindsight> Germans are well known for their efficiency and rules.
[13:38:52] <CaptHindsight> You must have both.
[13:40:13] <gloops> how do they know a real rear plate from a copy?
[13:40:24] <CaptHindsight> in the USA you can get new plates instantly for $10-20 more than waiting for an exact replacement
[13:41:19] <gloops> well you could just go into a car spares shop and theyd knock up any plate you wanted here, now you have to take the car logbook
[13:41:36] <gloops> but nothing to stop you making your own
[13:41:40] <fragalot> gloops: here it's a mix of an official symbol, and some of the fancy stuff you see on passports
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[13:41:56] <fragalot> eg. special holographic surfaces & other fancy things
[13:42:11] <gloops> i suppose its a good thing really
[13:42:14] <CaptHindsight> in Illinois they recently changed to using your mailing address as proof of your home address
[13:42:43] <CaptHindsight> they only give you temporary licenses at the DMV, the "real" ones come in the mail
[13:43:12] <CaptHindsight> if the mail gets screwed up you have to show up in person with a blood sample to get it cleared up
[13:43:34] <CaptHindsight> and wear loose clothing for the possible cavity search
[13:44:32] <CaptHindsight> so if the mail arrives then you must live there, not sure what genius came up with this
[13:44:44] <gloops> the cops just flash the reg plate with a scanner now
[13:45:09] <fragalot> CaptHindsight: do they also just leave it on the porch for someone else to take?
[13:45:12] <gloops> everything is on the database, tax, insurance MOT
[13:45:25] <CaptHindsight> they have vans here that troll the parked cars with cameras looking for violtions
[13:45:41] <CaptHindsight> fragalot: yes, what else would make sense?
[13:45:42] <fragalot> gloops: that's how my dad got a speeding and parking ticket in antwerp whilst we were on holiday in spain
[13:46:03] <gloops> we dont have paper tax discs anymore
[13:46:29] <fragalot> ANPR cameras got his plates.. on a different make car, but still sent the invoices to him
[13:47:13] <gloops> also the old 'average speed check' cameras
[13:47:13] <CaptHindsight> we also have toll roads here
[13:47:14] <CaptHindsight> they monitor all the plates through all the gates
[13:47:18] <gloops> everybody knows where the individual speed cameras are, so you slow down for a few hundred yards then speed back up - not with the average check cameras
[13:47:22] <CaptHindsight> they don't give out automatic speeding tickets yet but it's in the works
[13:47:46] <gloops> fragalot yeah its all automated
[13:47:50] <CaptHindsight> fragalot: it's similar here
[13:48:14] <CaptHindsight> I have friends that have thousands of $ in tickets from old plates they left on cars when sold
[13:48:57] <fragalot> CaptHindsight: because I drive a leasing car, technically a cop equipped with ANPR could pull me mover & impound the car because someone else driving a car from the same leasing company has an outstanding parking ticket.
[13:49:01] <CaptHindsight> even after reporting the plates stolen
[13:49:31] <pcw_home> The_Ball: I guess you could gate the probe signal path in hal with motion.motion-type <> probe-move
[13:49:39] <CaptHindsight> i love it, next they will just kill the car remotely
[13:49:49] <fragalot> (I say technically, but this has happened to someone else.. was on the news a while ago :D)
[13:50:27] <pcw_home> (with the proviso that you lose the ability to detect a crash into your tool setter with normal moves)
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[13:50:58] <CaptHindsight> fragalot: well it's good, the important thing is that justice was severed and that is the price we as non 0.001% have to pay
[13:51:11] <CaptHindsight> served/severed
[13:51:19] <FinboySlick> Ironic. Technological progress is supposed to afford mankind more freedom.
[13:51:21] <fragalot> I'm not even in the top 10%
[13:51:42] <fragalot> FinboySlick: lol.
[13:51:42] <CaptHindsight> FinboySlick: only in the sci-fi books :)
[13:52:08] <FinboySlick> Well, from an economics perspective too.
[13:52:10] <FinboySlick> But yeah.
[13:52:25] <CaptHindsight> China is going bat shit crazy with the "social score" they place on people
[13:52:42] <CaptHindsight> litter on camera -20 points
[13:52:54] <fragalot> CaptHindsight: don't forget their ban on exporting money
[13:53:00] <CaptHindsight> j-walk -50 points
[13:53:16] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: And a public large-display shaming.
[13:53:23] <fragalot> colleague of mine has a chinese GF, but she can't actually move here because it's neigh impossible for her to sell her house there & get the money across the border
[13:53:24] <CaptHindsight> lose 100 points and you can't get a plane of train ticket
[13:53:29] <CaptHindsight> of/or
[13:53:41] <fragalot> FinboySlick: which is not guaranteed to be correct
[13:53:49] <CaptHindsight> yeah, moving money out is tricky
[13:53:52] <fragalot> your face may show up for shaming someone else
[13:53:56] <FinboySlick> Coming soon to a democracy near you.
[13:53:59] <CaptHindsight> one reason why bitcoin did so well last year
[13:54:22] <fragalot> until they realized why
[13:54:23] <fragalot> :P
[13:54:26] <CaptHindsight> you had better of transferred it last year
[13:55:21] <CaptHindsight> you can move merchandise out of china pretty easily and cheaply
[13:55:38] <CaptHindsight> you just need to move something you are sure to convert back to cash
[13:55:56] <gloops> they made a new rule here, any immigrants have to be on £30k plus
[13:56:14] <gloops> (assuming EU free movement ends)
[13:56:45] <CaptHindsight> i think Thailand is only $20k USD
[13:56:53] <gloops> which is a bit cunning by the tory party, because 30k is around the income level people start moving to the right lol
[13:57:10] <fragalot> lol
[13:57:14] <CaptHindsight> FinboySlick: whats the latest on US refugees going to Canada?
[13:58:29] <FinboySlick> gloops: Says a lot about Orwell's statement that the largest motivator of leftist philosophy is envy.
[13:58:41] <CaptHindsight> FinboySlick: fluent French and proof of not being a dick + $50K
[13:58:49] <Loetmichel> gloops: i would like to see THAT study that only "rich" people go neonazi ;)
[13:59:13] <CaptHindsight> are you allowed to say that?
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[13:59:32] <Loetmichel> i would say its mostly the low income or welfare type that is dumb enough to fall for extreme right propaganda
[13:59:33] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: Well, if you want to move to quebec, you need those and a wilingness to have all of your schooling nullified (because that cartel wants its cut too).
[13:59:46] <gloops> Loetmichel well not far right, just right enough to vote Conservative
[13:59:59] <Loetmichel> ah, there was my error. i see
[14:00:13] <Loetmichel> yes, conservative i can imagine in "richer" people
[14:00:26] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: allowed to say what?
[14:00:33] <CaptHindsight> nazi
[14:00:41] <Loetmichel> sure
[14:00:42] <CaptHindsight> neo****
[14:00:43] <Loetmichel> why not?
[14:01:02] <CaptHindsight> forget what the rules are there
[14:01:12] <Loetmichel> the only thing we cant do here in germany is deny the holocaust or use their symbols/greetings
[14:01:19] <Loetmichel> thats a federal offense
[14:01:23] <FinboySlick> I think it's only questioning historical details that is illegal in Europe, CaptHindsight
[14:01:26] <CaptHindsight> ah no hiling
[14:01:46] <gloops> it isnt here
[14:01:57] <CaptHindsight> oh wow, the USA is currently all about revisionist history
[14:02:05] <gloops> you have to go as far as inciting hatred or violence
[14:02:25] <fragalot> gloops: you can even do that, IF you are a politician
[14:02:26] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: It's illegal even if factually verifiable though.
[14:02:26] <CaptHindsight> our fearless leader does that on-air
[14:02:52] <CaptHindsight> home of the free, land of the brave
[14:03:02] <FinboySlick> eg: If you argue that it was say 6.3 million instead of 6.2 and publish a book with your data, you could be in big trouble.
[14:03:06] <CaptHindsight> now bend over and lets check for liquids
[14:03:15] <HighInBC> I am in Canada and I think we should build a border wall
[14:03:21] <HighInBC> on OUR southern border
[14:03:24] <CaptHindsight> HighInBC: I agree
[14:03:30] <gloops> https://www.nytimes.com
[14:03:35] <HighInBC> perhaps we can get the US to pay for it
[14:03:39] <fragalot> xD
[14:03:46] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: That's an idea. use the entire TSA budget to build the wall. Argument over.
[14:04:01] <HighInBC> I bet Mexico would help pay for the impeachment...
[14:04:10] <Loetmichel> HighInBC: i woulndt. the ones that will flee the US to canada will probably be the ones that are useful in a society.
[14:04:12] <fragalot> Theatrical Satire Agency
[14:04:18] <Loetmichel> not the dregs. so you only win ;)
[14:04:19] <CaptHindsight> north border of texas and another US/Canada
[14:04:56] <fragalot> so is the US gov still shut down then?
[14:05:13] <FinboySlick> As a Canadian who lived through 12 years of Jean Chretien, I assure all my US friends that having a big moron as a head of state is not that big a deal.
[14:05:21] <Loetmichel> gloops: harry may have been insensitive. but not doing a crime, doesnt he?
[14:05:25] <CaptHindsight> HighInBC: FinboySlick I was looking at some Google street views of Canada and spotted some homeless...
[14:05:35] <CaptHindsight> is that possible there?
[14:05:41] <FinboySlick> Yes.
[14:05:50] <gloops> nah not a crime, very bad form for a royal though
[14:06:13] <Loetmichel> that it is indeed
[14:06:27] <gloops> i wouldnt really expect to get through the streets in a nazi uniform here
[14:06:40] <Loetmichel> in germany that would be a crime, if he didnt make the swatiska and other symbols unreadable
[14:07:07] <CaptHindsight> also read a story about BC police targeting people of color and natives
[14:08:14] <gloops> i dont think holocaust denial or scepticism should be a crime, but thats how it is
[14:08:58] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: the nazi uniform here is a trucker cap, camo and a pickup truck :)
[14:09:17] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: Canada is mostly used by the US left as a fantasy utopia to justify going even more socialist. It's not a bad place but nowhere near what the democrats make it sound like.
[14:09:44] <CaptHindsight> they don't even know what Nazis are, now or in Europe 70 years ago
[14:10:18] <CaptHindsight> FinboySlick: it's from all those hippies that migrated there in the 60's-70-s
[14:10:29] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: not white gown with a white tipped hat with holes for the eyes?
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[14:11:08] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: even the skinheads traded the flight jackets and buzz cuts for suits and ties
[14:11:29] <CaptHindsight> now they look like well trained corporate types to blend in
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[14:12:36] <CaptHindsight> they discovered that stupid people can't think so if you dress like "safe" people they can't spot you
[14:12:52] <CaptHindsight> they can't reason, so you hide in plane sight
[14:13:05] <CaptHindsight> bad people look different
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[14:13:17] <CaptHindsight> skin, hats, haircuts etc
[14:13:21] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: and i dont think many of the american "rednecks" are neonazis. a few may be, but mosty i think they are just the same "hinterwäldler" we have here in europe
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[14:14:03] <CaptHindsight> well not "neonazis" but definitely devout racists
[14:14:04] <Loetmichel> somewhat inbred, somewhat too proud of they country but mostly good guys with a simple view on things
[14:14:28] <FinboySlick> Personally, given a choice between south georgia and Portland, I'll go with the rednecks.
[14:14:39] <Loetmichel> sure? are there much racists in that group of people?
[14:14:48] <Loetmichel> what i see on youtube i cant tell
[14:15:00] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: which group?
[14:15:21] <gloops> well, there are plenty of rednecks in non-western countries
[14:15:38] <Loetmichel> the proverbial "truckdriving, camo wearing hicks"
[14:15:56] <gloops> i think Japan took about 2 dozen refugees last year
[14:16:07] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: around here and over 30 very much so
[14:16:14] <Loetmichel> interesting
[14:16:23] <CaptHindsight> 20 somethings don't seem to mind as much
[14:16:50] <CaptHindsight> same for race, sexual orientation, hair cuts etc
[14:16:55] <FinboySlick> In my experience, 'progressive' racism is worse. I prefer someone who openly dislikes you to someone who's being condescending with open arms.
[14:17:33] <CaptHindsight> FinboySlick: our fearless leader has brought them out in the spotlight
[14:17:35] <Loetmichel> <- would have them more in the "i dont mind what colour/religion you are or what you do as long as you dont mind me doing what i want"
[14:17:42] <Loetmichel> corner
[14:18:15] <FinboySlick> Live and let live is the vast majority of people, really.
[14:18:19] <CaptHindsight> some of it is just old religious beliefs
[14:18:38] <FinboySlick> All the fuss is about the 20% of the population that the news likes to talk about.
[14:18:48] <CaptHindsight> it's polarized people here
[14:19:12] <CaptHindsight> the main problem is people not doing anything about these issues
[14:19:27] <CaptHindsight> people here don't know how to do anything about it
[14:19:49] <CaptHindsight> they dropped teaching civics in most public schools by the 70's
[14:20:08] <Loetmichel> civics?
[14:20:14] <CaptHindsight> so people under 60 don't really know how guberment works
[14:20:26] <Loetmichel> does it work at all?
[14:20:34] <CaptHindsight> the study of the rights and duties of citizenship
[14:20:34] <Loetmichel> arent you still in shutdown?
[14:20:38] <CaptHindsight> yeah
[14:20:45] <Loetmichel> <- pours some salt in the gash ;)
[14:21:21] <CaptHindsight> the Dems are holding the fearless leader to Mexico paying for the wall
[14:21:23] <Loetmichel> ah, like "staatsbürgerkunde" in the Ex-DDR?
[14:21:29] <CaptHindsight> which I think is now a fence
[14:22:12] <Loetmichel> and the mexican government sits there and laughs their collective asses off i think ;)
[14:22:38] <CaptHindsight> yeah, child ruler
[14:22:45] <FinboySlick> Well, they're in talks about protecting the southern border of Mexico so they might not have money to pay for the northern wall too.
[14:23:07] <CaptHindsight> but it's at a level that the simpletons here can understand
[14:24:48] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com pretty much covers it
[14:25:14] <fragalot> CaptHindsight: didn't said fence have a design where the height requirement of the steel posts used in it were of such a specific length that they could only really be made by one of the russian owned steel mills that your beloved leader had stock of?
[14:26:45] <CaptHindsight> fragalot: are you trying to imply that a building developer know for running scams might be running another scam?
[14:26:53] <CaptHindsight> know/known
[14:26:58] <gloops> the thing is, after all this, there just has to be a wall
[14:27:33] <fragalot> get the germans to build it
[14:27:36] <fragalot> they're experienced
[14:28:01] <gloops> under russian supervision?
[14:28:03] <CaptHindsight> why not just crocs for the Rio Grand
[14:28:03] <Deejay> haha
[14:29:01] <CaptHindsight> how stupid does the USA look from your eyes?
[14:29:13] <fragalot> on the whole, or certain individuals?
[14:29:25] <Loetmichel> fragalot: i doubt any of the ones that built the berlin wall are still alive or in any condition to work
[14:29:28] <CaptHindsight> say from international news, TV etc
[14:29:35] <Loetmichel> s(or/and
[14:29:45] <fragalot> CaptHindsight: TV is mostly neutral, actually
[14:29:55] <fragalot> just reporting facts... as unlikely as that sounds
[14:30:09] <Loetmichel> other than that: sure, we could built the wall. we know how do do concrete structures very well
[14:30:19] <fragalot> Loetmichel: it's a steel structure, not concrete.
[14:30:21] <Loetmichel> but i doubt trump would be willing to pay our prices ;)
[14:30:26] <CaptHindsight> I read/watch BBC, france 24, etc
[14:30:30] <gloops> from what ive gleaned from Louis Theroux shows - most americans are pretty batty
[14:30:32] <Loetmichel> fragalot: we can do steel just as well ;)
[14:30:42] <Loetmichel> still the price problem applies :-)
[14:30:44] <fragalot> Loetmichel: but you can't import it, it has to be US steel :D
[14:31:04] <Loetmichel> not that big of a problem
[14:31:34] <CaptHindsight> fragalot: news here has become maybe 5% actual news and 95% speculation
[14:31:34] <Loetmichel> i can imagine we would be still able to find some of the old steel mills you dismantled and shipped overseas after WW2
[14:31:40] <Loetmichel> they should still work ;)
[14:31:49] <fragalot> CaptHindsight: I notice that when going to the US on business trips
[14:31:52] <Loetmichel> and be up to spec ;)
[14:32:00] <fragalot> just looking at the TV in the hotel lobby.. Christ.
[14:32:18] <CaptHindsight> they should call it Speculation and not News at 6 and 10
[14:33:13] <fragalot> speculation with a hint of manipulation
[14:33:19] <CaptHindsight> sad but many Americans will object to what I'm saying, they think I'm paranoid and negative
[14:33:36] <CaptHindsight> they really buy into it
[14:33:59] <fragalot> the main thing that irks me about the US is the general waste of resources & terrible healthcare system
[14:34:20] <CaptHindsight> you can't reason with them since they have mostly joined a tribe and just spew what they memorized
[14:35:00] <CaptHindsight> fragalot: if the overall plan is to destroy the middle class it all should make sense
[14:35:35] <CaptHindsight> keep them ignorant and fighting with each other while you take over everything
[14:36:20] <CaptHindsight> why it's so polarized here
[14:38:36] <CaptHindsight> bread and circus, been working for generations
[14:39:15] <CaptHindsight> sorry for being a downer, let me get some kitten pics :)
[14:43:23] <gloops> yes only these days we dont actually get to see any of the real action
[14:43:42] <gloops> in roman times you could watch gladiators carve one another up for real
[14:45:11] <CaptHindsight> was watching a John Cleese interview about him leaving the UK
[14:45:26] <gloops> yes Cleese has had enough
[14:45:35] <CaptHindsight> said he was offered a position in parliament
[14:46:00] <gloops> the england he knew is disappearing fast
[14:46:14] <CaptHindsight> he said the original family name is Cheese and almost wanted to stay so he could have the title of Lord Cheese
[14:46:51] <gloops> i dont think anybody would notice another clown in the house of lords
[14:48:27] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: i am afraid there is no "PLAN" in any of that. you know the movie "idiocracy"? i think the beginnings of that plot can be seen in the US today
[14:48:58] <FinboySlick> I read yesterday that Bezos is having a divorce. 70 billion... Hope the girl was worth it.
[14:49:31] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: it's not being dumbed down by accident
[14:50:11] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: Let the german think it's because of bad genetics ;)
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[14:50:45] <CaptHindsight> FinboySlick: yeah, well she did help build the empire
[14:50:46] <FinboySlick> (sorry Loetmichel, I just had to)
[14:50:46] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: i dont see any "accident" in idiocracy
[14:51:02] <CaptHindsight> she wasn't sitting at home cooking and cleaning :)
[14:51:03] <Loetmichel> just a social function that runs away
[14:51:13] <Loetmichel> FinboySlick: you are partly right
[14:51:34] <Loetmichel> we have a saying in germany... "Dumm bummst gut!"
[14:51:50] <Loetmichel> (dumb is good to fu**)
[14:51:53] <CaptHindsight> "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree"
[14:52:08] <Loetmichel> sadly all to true
[14:52:10] <CaptHindsight> forget the german version
[14:53:01] <Loetmichel> "Der Apfel fällt nicht weit vom Stamm"
[14:53:07] <rmu> der Apfel fällt nicht weit vom Stamm
[14:53:13] <Loetmichel> pretty much word for word
[14:53:15] <rmu> oups
[14:53:19] <CaptHindsight> haha
[14:53:42] <Loetmichel> "stamm" is more trunk than tree though
[14:53:42] <CaptHindsight> my moms favorite
[14:53:56] <CaptHindsight> my dads was "You can never trust the Russians:"
[14:54:46] <Loetmichel> oh you can, but even their leader knew that its better to check once in a while ;)
[14:54:48] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: I wasn't really questioning her deserving the 70 billions. I was more dazzled by Bezos' risk assessment calculations.
[14:55:30] <CaptHindsight> FinboySlick: they were married in 93
[14:55:38] <Loetmichel> i know i should know jeff bezos... i just can pinpoint why
[14:55:49] <CaptHindsight> Amazon
[14:55:55] <Loetmichel> ah
[14:56:05] <Loetmichel> thanks
[14:56:23] <CaptHindsight> founded Amazon in his garage on July 5, 1994
[14:56:29] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: Watch the last two episodes of South Park, you'll understand exactly who he is ;)
[14:56:37] <Loetmichel> hihi
[14:56:40] <CaptHindsight> hah yeah
[14:57:09] <CaptHindsight> i loved how they have the big heads from the pilot episode of Star Trek
[14:57:49] <CaptHindsight> https://www.thoughtco.com():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/Talosians_3-571560313df78c3fa22704ed.jpg
[14:57:58] <Loetmichel> yo i get it that the divorce was a consequence of him getting a young "side chick" and not him divorcing his long years wife to get a new one?
[14:58:08] <Loetmichel> -y+s
[14:58:13] <CaptHindsight> https://amp.businessinsider.com
[14:59:45] <rmu> is that the bush administration on the picture in the background?
[15:00:25] <FinboySlick> No, I think it's the south park city administration.
[15:01:06] <CaptHindsight> rmu: do you recall the cover of Stern during the Bush years? was all superheros
[15:02:04] <rmu> Stern as in german Stern magazine?
[15:02:08] <CaptHindsight> i made it into t-shrts
[15:02:10] <CaptHindsight> yes
[15:02:26] <rmu> no, i'm more a titanic and less a stern guy i guess
[15:03:03] <rmu> but i remember this: https://www.titanic-magazin.de
[15:06:04] <CaptHindsight> can't find a link online
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[15:08:37] <CaptHindsight> rmu: https://media.gettyimages.com
[15:08:45] <CaptHindsight> was Spiegel sorry
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[15:09:27] <rmu> CaptHindsight: that i know. could be it still is in the archive
[15:09:35] <rmu> in my archive
[15:09:55] <rmu> "the expendables"
[15:10:43] <CaptHindsight> hah, then later https://coverjunkie.com
[15:11:57] <CaptHindsight> Jack Ma says hire the craziest, not the "most qualified"
[15:14:11] <pcw_mesa> "Hire the insane"
[15:14:23] <CaptHindsight> https://www.kalibrr.com
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[15:17:13] <Jymmm> pcw_home: you called?
[15:23:23] <The_Ball> pcw_home, "with the proviso that you lose the ability to detect a crash into your tool setter with normal moves", yes that's unfortunate but I don't see any better way
[15:25:24] <`Wolf> JT-Shop, got deb 9 installed and working, can see the 7i96 as well with the config tool
[15:28:31] <pcw_mesa> The_Ball: if its just very short contact closures from motion, you might use a slow debounce when not probing and fast debounce when probing
[15:29:23] <`Wolf> now if I could just figure out what half this stuff is in the configuration tool i'll be set lol
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[15:33:33] <`Wolf> pcw_mesa, pretty sure I have asked before, but for a thcad 10 voltage divider for a 300v hypertherm 1000 w/ pilot arc is there some specific type resistor needed?
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[15:39:59] <jthornton> `Wolf: are you using my configuration tool? and I have a note around here somewhere about the resistors I'll see if I can find it
[15:40:17] <`Wolf> yeah, using your tool
[15:41:01] <`Wolf> i'm somewhat lost because I havent set up a lcnc machine in like 5 yrs
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[15:42:52] <`Wolf> mostly I dont know what the axis type fields are under the joint tabs, scale min/max limit
[15:45:06] <pcw_mesa> `Wolf: 2.9 M for 300VFS
[15:45:35] <pcw_mesa> 2.4M for 250V FS
[15:47:42] <JT-Shop> scale is how many steps it takes to move one user unit, does that info show up when you press F1 on that tab?
[15:49:27] <`Wolf> nope, just says joints must be configured in order starting with 0 and not skipping any, and axis, pid stepgen are required
[15:49:51] <JT-Shop> I need to work on that some then :)
[15:50:06] <JT-Shop> so min/max are the limits of your axis
[15:50:44] <`Wolf> ok like 4 foot gantry type would be 0, 48
[15:52:47] <`Wolf> and the example is a 60" travel being -30, 30
[15:53:20] <pcw_mesa> JT-Shop: also noticed if specify flood and mist outputs you get 2 flood (or 2 mist I forget)
[16:02:21] <The_Ball> pcw_mesa, that's an excellent idea actually
[16:04:16] <`Wolf> ugh, is my math correct, 8mm pitch, 400 pulse per rev = 0.02mm so 1270 pulse per inch?
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[16:14:47] <JT-Shop> pcw_mesa: thanks
[16:16:39] <JT-Shop> wolf that's what I get for scale exactly
[16:16:50] * JT-Shop goes back to work
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[16:17:49] <Deejay> gn8
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[16:19:43] <`Wolf> cool, not lost my mind yet lol
[16:20:02] <XXCoder> on what?
[16:20:15] <`Wolf> math...
[16:20:24] <XXCoder> lol ok
[16:21:08] <`Wolf> configuring the plasma table finally
[16:21:31] <XXCoder> awesome getting there :)
[16:27:09] <`Wolf> need to stretch my x axis tho
[16:27:56] <XXCoder> i think size is one of those stuff about cnc machines everyone complains about. :)
[16:28:50] <`Wolf> my x axis is 1" short vs the bumper plate width I need lol
[16:30:56] <XXCoder> ow heh
[16:34:04] <`Wolf> easy fix, add .75" spacers to each end of my x axis rail lol
[16:39:25] <JT-Shop> yea work done... chicken time
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[16:47:26] <`Wolf> bumped it up to 800 step/rev, now to see if it works
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[16:57:06] <Wolf_ITX> hmm fail
[17:03:33] <Wolf_ITX> JT-Shop, https://pastebin.com
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[17:05:30] <rmu> ./io.hal:5: Pin 'joint.0.neg-lim-sw-in' was already linked to signal 'min-limit-home-joint-0'
[17:06:21] <Wolf_ITX> yeah, I noticed that, config was built with JT's 7i96 config tool
[17:10:58] <Wolf_ITX> from the io.hal "# This file was created with the 7i96 Wizard on Jan 10 2019 16:51:23 If you make changes to this file your screwed" lol
[17:12:46] <rmu> the wizard could check the generated files' timestamps and prompt the user if those are newer than the source files'
[17:13:06] <JT-Shop> Wolf_ITX: thanks for the report, I'll see what's up paste.ubuntu.com the io.hal file for me
[17:13:25] <rmu> at least open a dialog "I warned you, now you are screwed!" ;-)
[17:14:09] <Wolf_ITX> JT-Shop, https://paste.ubuntu.com
[17:14:21] <JT-Shop> rmu: it just opens the ini file and reads that
[17:15:36] <JT-Shop> opps, let me what I've got screwed up, unselect the limits and test
[17:16:45] <Wolf_ITX> I chose min limit & home, will change to min limit only and test
[17:17:13] <Wolf_ITX> or home actually
[17:19:13] <JT-Shop> ok thanks
[17:23:31] <jthornton> I'm hooking up a 7i96 to this PC so I can do more testing
[17:23:39] <Wolf_ITX> lcnc didnt like having a output pin set to spindle on either, opened w/ inputs set to home only tho
[17:26:54] <jthornton> did you select a spindle type?
[17:27:04] <Wolf_ITX> nope
[17:28:37] <jthornton> ah that is not tested sadly
[17:32:31] <Wolf_ITX> now, I set it up as a YYXZ, under manual control in axis its showing joint 0,1,2,3
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[17:36:32] <jthornton> you have to home all the joints before it goes to XYZ
[17:36:44] <jthornton> just wiring up the 7i96 now
[17:37:11] <jthornton> the cool thing is you can pastebin the ini and I can recreate your whole configuration
[17:37:27] <Wolf_ITX> hmm, my stepper drivers aren't powering up =/
[17:38:13] <jthornton> what driver do you have?
[17:38:49] <Wolf_ITX> mb450A which are reboxed m542 leadshines
[17:39:49] <Wolf_ITX> enb is wired to 5pv and gnd so it should be showing power
[17:41:57] <Wolf_ITX> great, need to power stepper drivers before mesa
[17:41:58] <jthornton> I'm not familiar with that drive
[17:42:28] <jthornton> you can use an output with a relay
[17:43:13] <Wolf_ITX> yeah, just use one of the outputs at a enable
[17:43:22] <Wolf_ITX> at/as
[17:43:56] <Wolf_ITX> well power lights on drivers, no move
[17:45:40] <pcw_mesa> jthornton: Not sure what you want to do about the spindle stuff, if you use latest master its has the multi-spindle names
[17:47:08] <pcw_mesa> Wolf_ITX "Enable" on most step drives is really "Disable" so leave unconnected to work
[17:47:15] <jthornton> pcw_mesa: yea when I wrote this it was before that merge so I need to look at that
[17:48:44] <Wolf_ITX> lol yup that did it
[17:54:34] <jthornton> ./mesaflash64: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpci.so.3: version `LIBPCI_3.5' not found (required by ./mesaflash64)
[17:55:50] <jthornton> pcw_mesa: I made a 32 bit and 64 bit version of mesaflash to read the card but on this new PC without mesaflash installed I get the above error
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[17:58:46] <pcw_mesa> I know mesaflash needs the PCI lib to build, did you install it when building mesaflash?
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[17:59:31] <jthornton> I built mesaflash on another pc
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[18:00:08] <jthornton> I think I need to add mesaflash to my uspace docs http://gnipsel.com
[18:00:27] <jthornton> then just use the installed mesaflash
[18:00:58] <jthornton> good thing this is a fresh pc so I can find those mistakes in my code
[18:01:02] <Wolf_ITX> well, I can jog stuff
[18:01:12] <jthornton> yippe
[18:01:17] <Wolf_ITX> machine runs worse then I expected lol
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[18:03:22] <pcw_mesa> Yeah if you built it on a machine you pull in its (1) dependency
[18:07:50] <Wolf_ITX> floppy lead screws
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[18:08:46] <Wolf_ITX> I think if I secure them in tension it might work better lol
[18:09:59] <gloops> those screws are intended for 3d printers
[18:10:13] <Wolf_ITX> yup
[18:10:25] <Wolf_ITX> works ok at 90in/min tho
[18:10:56] <gloops> thats not bad, maybe doubling the end bearings might do something
[18:11:30] <Wolf_ITX> right now it just has bearings with shaft collars on the insides holding them in place
[18:11:54] <Wolf_ITX> I think thats letting it pull in to the frame and whip
[18:12:06] <Nick001-Shop> Can I control 2 spindle motors on linuxcnc?
[18:12:28] <Wolf_ITX> iirc 8 spindles w/ 2.8
[18:12:56] <Nick001-Shop> is that out?
[18:13:20] <jthornton> yep
[18:13:39] <jthornton> well it's master
[18:13:48] <jthornton> so not a release
[18:13:57] <Nick001-Shop> will it thread with at least one of the spindles?
[18:17:57] <pcw_mesa> should thread with any
[18:19:15] <pcw_mesa> (that is AFAICT all the spindle sync collateral is available for all spindles)
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[18:21:57] <Nick001-Shop> just neet to tap with 1 spindle, but one set of 2 slides have to operate with the 2 motoactual spindles
[18:23:01] <Nick001-Shop> motoactual/motors driving 2 spindles each
[18:29:33] <Nick001-Shop> what version linux should I have on the machine for 2.8?
[18:31:07] <pcw_mesa> LinuxCNC version and Linux Version are basically independent as long as you can meet the dependecies
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[18:33:42] <Nick001-Shop> does 2.8 require a certain version of linux and is ir 32 or 64 bit? And where do I get 2.8 from? Still seaching the forum.
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[18:34:14] <gloops> i upgraded, but be careful i think it changes any 2.7 configs you might have
[18:35:07] <Nick001-Shop> This would be a new install with an ITX board
[18:35:59] <Nick001-Shop> back in 1/2 hour
[18:36:02] <Wolf_ITX> deb 9 seems to work
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[18:40:57] <jthornton> Nick001-Shop: http://gnipsel.com
[18:41:06] <gloops> i just installed the standard linuxcnc iso off the web, look on synaptic it should find 2.8 master - upgrade
[18:41:18] <jthornton> my guide to building linuxcnc on various os's
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[18:45:38] <Loetmichel> *aand another 30,-Eur gone... The orville season two on amazon video... being a german can be expensive ;)
[18:46:42] <jthornton> pcw_mesa: should the http://freeby.mesanet.com open without triggering the update script? seems that version = 1.0 is not valid anymore
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[18:53:05] <pcw_mesa> It may trigger the spindle update part
[18:54:56] <pcw_mesa> (The script always prints the same Joints/Axis related message so can be confusing in this case)
[18:56:40] <jthornton> ah ok that makes sense
[18:56:42] <jthornton> thanks
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[19:10:39] <Nick001-Shop> Thanks for the info-will be back I'm sure.
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[20:05:38] Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
[20:05:43] <Tom_L> log
[20:05:43] <russian_troll> Tom_L: Today's Log http://www.isaeff.net
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[20:07:04] <Tom_L> log
[20:07:05] <russian_troll> Tom_L: Today's Log http://www.isaeff.net
[20:07:05] <c-log> Tom_L: Today's Log http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81
[20:08:17] <Tom_L> Nick001-Shop, http://www.linuxcnc.org
[20:08:25] <Tom_L> debian 9 (stretch)
[20:08:53] <Tom_L> version 2.7.xx linux iirc
[20:09:04] <Tom_L> 2.8 would be master i believe
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[20:32:42] <Nick001-Shop> Tomorrow I'll check what's on the extra computer I have for this project
[20:33:29] <Tom_L> basically i think that debian 9 build (preempt-rt) is for cards that need preempt
[20:33:37] <Tom_L> ie ethernet etc
[20:34:11] <Tom_L> it also requires a little faster hardware for good latency
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[20:48:33] <Nick001-Shop> will an ITX card suffice?
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[22:13:10] <flyback> PHEAR ME Tom_L https://imgur.com
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[22:42:24] <BitEvil> https://mobile.twitter.com insane
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