#linuxcnc | Logs for 2019-02-13

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[02:54:05] <Deejay> moin
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[02:57:30] <gloops> mornin
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[03:03:23] <sensille> morning
[03:03:41] <Deejay> :)
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[03:17:20] <sensille> Loetmichel: did you configure the drivers to 3A instead of the default 2.5A?
[03:19:13] <Loetmichel> nope
[03:19:24] <Loetmichel> the motors overheat if you do that
[03:19:43] <Loetmichel> i DID wind up the voltage of the PSU to 28 or so volts though
[03:20:53] <Loetmichel> i also only use 1/8 microstepping because at 1/16 my PC cant generate steps fast enough for high G0 speeds
[03:22:05] <sensille> i tried 1/16th and can go up to 1400mm/min. i think the problem are the drivers, not the PC
[03:22:49] <sensille> as i use 1200mm/min as feed normally, it should be fine
[03:23:02] <sensille> although it makes me impatient
[03:23:09] <sensille> but the moves are much smoother
[03:28:23] <gloops> cheapest way to confirm that is tb6600 the new improved version
[03:28:32] <gloops> theyre about £8 each
[03:28:57] <sensille> are they pin compatible?
[03:29:13] <gloops> how do you mean?
[03:29:39] <Loetmichel> gloops: the CNC 6040 comes usually with TB6560
[03:29:42] <Loetmichel> not 6600
[03:29:47] <gloops> https://www.amazon.co.uk
[03:29:54] <sensille> the 3 6560 are on a board. to swap them it would be easiest to replace them on the board
[03:29:55] <gloops> the 6550 is inferior
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[03:30:29] <gloops> right so the 6560 are integrated
[03:30:45] <gloops> i dont know how youd fit the 6600s in then, ive never tried
[03:31:25] <Loetmichel> thats how the boards look: http://www.cyrom.org
[03:31:35] <sensille> more Vm probably doesn't matter at 1500mm/min
[03:31:40] <Loetmichel> (inside the driver box of my "new" 6040
[03:31:42] <Loetmichel> )
[03:32:30] <Loetmichel> sensille: mine moves at F3800 now... there you need the high step rate from the PC
[03:33:01] <Loetmichel> at 1200/1400 i doubt its the PC that is the problem ;)
[03:33:16] <sensille> with 1/16th
[03:33:22] <Loetmichel> more likely the dead slow opto couplers
[03:33:30] <Loetmichel> on that board
[03:33:39] <Loetmichel> i desoldered them and bridged them
[03:33:46] <sensille> the datasheet of the 6560 says something about 15kHz
[03:33:48] <Loetmichel> makes one hell of a difference
[03:33:50] <gloops> i get 5000mm/min on a dinosaur PC - i had up to 15000mm on the old machine
[03:34:02] <gloops> sensille yes cant handle the input pulse
[03:34:08] <Loetmichel> gloops: at which step/mm?
[03:34:39] <gloops> i cant remember without looking at the config - 1600 steps i think
[03:34:45] <sensille> so how can the optocouplers make a difference, if i already reach the driver limit with them?
[03:38:50] <gloops> its like anything though, you start upgrading one thing, you end up building a new machine
[03:39:07] <sensille> i already fear that
[03:39:13] <gloops> next thing bigger motors, stronger bearings, new gantry etc
[03:39:21] <sensille> that's why i'm trying to be content with F1400
[03:39:53] <sensille> but i alread want all of that
[03:39:57] <gloops> those drivers are known to be inferior though, i think some improvement would be seen if they were changed
[03:39:59] <sensille> and more travel in Z
[03:40:10] <gloops> up to the next bottleneck in the design
[03:40:55] <Loetmichel> sensille: the driver chips CAN do faster. if they get a reasonably strong signal
[03:40:58] <sensille> in my other project i'm building a controller for a 3d printer, fpga based. i hope to use that for the cnc, too, when it's done
[03:41:21] <sensille> Loetmichel: will try that
[03:41:57] <Loetmichel> as i said: my old machine does F4200 at G0. the new one a bit slower, may change when all the ballscrews and linear ways are "run in"
[03:42:52] <sensille> so i can expect to reach F2400 at least with 1/16th
[03:42:56] <Loetmichel> FPGA for a 3dprinter? isnt that a bit "shooting cannons on sparrows"?
[03:43:02] <sensille> erm. F2100
[03:43:17] <Loetmichel> the FPGA alone is already more expensive than a cheap complete printer ;)
[03:43:19] <sensille> no, that's exactly what they need
[03:43:34] <sensille> the fpga is <$10
[03:43:47] <Loetmichel> nice
[03:44:08] <Loetmichel> last time i looked into FPGAs they were $200++ depending on size ;)
[03:44:11] <sensille> i did testruns with a steprate of 6MHz
[03:45:02] <sensille> Loetmichel: https://www.youtube.com
[03:45:16] <Loetmichel> gloops: i made one machine that could do F15000 for a coworker. it had Steel cables on alu drums as drive though, no ballscrews..
[03:45:35] <Loetmichel> frightening when it moves full speed... ;)
[03:46:01] <gloops> that one i made used bike chain lol, rather fast gearing, it wouldnt cut sh^t
[03:46:04] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org
[03:46:27] <Loetmichel> https://www.youtube.com
[03:46:31] <Loetmichel> :-)
[03:46:49] <gloops> i think youre probably looking at 3500-7500mm/min realistically with steppers
[03:47:08] <gloops> for a machine that cuts anyway
[03:47:28] <Loetmichel> depends on the cutting forces ;)
[03:47:36] <gloops> that looks pretty good Loetmichel!
[03:47:53] <Loetmichel> that dremel/proxxon on that machine would stall pretty easily anyways
[03:48:31] <gloops> might be ok for some things, hard foam etc
[03:48:53] <Loetmichel> it did sheet alu reasonably well
[03:49:07] <Loetmichel> you just had to be frugal on the DOC ;)
[03:49:18] <Loetmichel> 0,1mm was the absolute max
[03:49:33] <Loetmichel> and its resolution was only 50steps/mm
[03:49:37] <Loetmichel> so not that precise
[03:49:51] <Loetmichel> but for model hobby it was ok
[03:50:21] <gloops> yeah, there was someone in here recently who was cutting 10mm ally with an xcarve allegedly, using adaptive milling - never got to see the vids though
[03:50:38] <gloops> 10 cut with the side of the tool
[03:50:41] <gloops> 10mm
[03:51:06] * Loetmichel just has a 12mm thick alu sheet on the 6040... runing big pockets into it with a 6mm two flute bit...
[03:51:09] <Loetmichel> takes ages ;)
[03:51:28] <Loetmichel> at 0.15mm DOC ;)
[03:51:43] <gloops> worth looking at the milling strategies with a slow machine, its another way to gain efficiency and save time
[03:51:46] <Loetmichel> 9mm deep pockets to boot ;)
[03:52:02] <Loetmichel> 6040 arent slow. but weak
[03:52:18] <Loetmichel> you cant have big forces or the gantry torsions
[03:52:31] <sensille> Loetmichel: yesterday i had the problem that the bolts holding the ballscrew nut were loose. did you have that problem?
[03:52:38] <Loetmichel> so low DOC, fast movement it is ;)
[03:52:41] <gloops> fill it with resin concrete or something
[03:52:48] <Loetmichel> sensille: nope
[03:52:50] <gloops> reduce vibes
[03:53:19] <Loetmichel> gloops: wont help. the "gantry" is unsupported 20mm rails. there IS nothing to fill it with ;)
[03:53:28] <Loetmichel> no holes i mean
[03:53:31] <gloops> sensille when theyre tight put another washer and another nut on them
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[03:54:04] <sensille> i don't think they come out on the other side
[03:54:48] <gloops> ahh, mine are drilled flanges
[03:55:26] <gloops> the unsupported rails would be a subject for upgrading i think
[03:56:39] <sensille> Loetmichel: so what do you think is the weakest part of the machine? the gantry in Y direction? (Y being the shorter axis for me)
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[04:03:49] <Loetmichel> sensille: yes
[04:04:50] <Loetmichel> the gantry "tilts" in the longer axis because the unupported rails can twist
[04:05:04] <Loetmichel> more in the middle of the movement than at the sides though
[04:05:46] <Loetmichel> an upgrade would be to put a 120*50 rectangular tube on the back of the gantry and swap the unsupported rails for supported ones
[04:05:55] <Loetmichel> THEN you also have something to fill with sand ;)
[04:06:02] <Loetmichel> or concrete
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[04:07:01] <Loetmichel> problem with that is that the sled on the gantry is a single part for the X ballscrew nut and the 4 20mm linear bnearings
[04:07:25] <Loetmichel> so that has to be machined to accept the SBR sleds
[04:08:17] <sensille> sorry, what are the unsupported rails?
[04:10:52] <sensille> ah, the rods?
[04:12:46] <sensille> so the basic idea is to swap them for sbr
[04:16:33] <gloops> even 12mm supported rails will be far stronger than unsupported
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[04:19:26] <gloops> if you could mill the flat strip, you could even add support to the existing rails, if you can get sbr blocks the right size
[04:20:48] <sensille> are rods also called rails?
[04:22:10] <sensille> i'm having a bit of a trouble following, also because i'm currently not at the machine to look for details
[04:22:32] <sensille> (why do i have this day job again?)
[04:23:01] <gloops> still called rails - but unsupported
[04:23:52] <gloops> your rails have only their own strength, supported rails are bolted to a beam - the beam provides the strength
[04:23:59] <sensille> ok, then i see the problem now. i could measure deflection of the spindle in each direction to confirm
[04:24:40] <gloops> if you can press on the bottom of the spindle and z axis moves, youve got problems
[04:25:44] <sensille> is there an easy way to calculate the forces on the endmill/spindle with a given material, end mill, feed rate, spindle speed, stepdown?
[04:26:32] <gloops> there are formulas and calculators, nobody seems really sure
[04:26:55] <gloops> it takes about 12lbs to push a hand router through wood
[04:27:27] <gloops> if you try pushing it at 10000mm/min youll need more force obviously
[04:29:01] <gloops> cutting behaviour gives a clue, chattery noisy - deflection or backlash
[04:30:25] <Loetmichel> sensille:just swap them wouldnt help though
[04:30:37] <Loetmichel> you need something sturdy to mount the supports to ;)
[04:31:06] <Loetmichel> and no, there is no "formula" that isnt heavily idealized.
[04:31:20] <gloops> id probably take the components you have, screws etc, and design a new gantry around them
[04:31:43] <Loetmichel> because if your cutter is getting a bit dull that already has a bigger impact on forces than a lot of the other parameters that can be measured
[04:33:02] <gloops> you look at an industrial mill, you cant get anything to move with hand force, you can swing on it and it wont bend or flex
[04:33:18] <gloops> thats the difference
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[04:34:06] <Loetmichel> gloops / sensille : you can kind of SEE how the machine gantry twists on the milling pattern here: http://www.cyrom.org
[04:34:36] <Loetmichel> moving -x its a few though lower than moving x+
[04:34:41] <Loetmichel> thou
[04:35:13] <Loetmichel> the whole "z assembly" tilts
[04:35:18] <Loetmichel> slightly
[04:35:19] <sensille> Loetmichel: what is X for you? the longer axis?
[04:35:24] <Loetmichel> the longer
[04:35:53] <Loetmichel> i sit on the "side" of the machine, so x is left/right y is front/back in that picture
[04:36:27] <sensille> ok, same for me
[04:36:41] <sensille> i think the original wiring is different
[04:36:47] <Loetmichel> it is
[04:36:52] <Loetmichel> i didnt rewire it
[04:37:02] <Loetmichel> just swapped the pins in the software ;)
[04:37:15] <sensille> just swapped the plugs :)
[04:37:28] <Loetmichel> that works also ;)
[04:38:05] <Loetmichel> yeah, the machine is configured to sit on the small side
[04:38:40] <Loetmichel> "front" is meant to be where you can look at the gantry and spindle right ahead
[04:39:08] <sensille> i got G38.2 working and use it for position probing, very happy with the results: https://i.imgur.com
[04:39:17] <sensille> adding fillets to the back side
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[04:43:59] <gloops> my gantry bends and its 60x40 heavy steel box https://www.youtube.com
[04:46:33] <sensille> well everything bends, that's why it would be nice to know the forces involved
[04:47:24] <sensille> can you mill steel with it?
[04:48:24] <gloops> nope, well never tried but it wont
[04:50:37] <sensille> probably much easier to build a small machine for steel
[04:51:26] <sensille> like 20x15cm
[04:51:50] <gloops> yeah smaller is much easier to achieve, small levers
[04:52:25] <gloops> some have tried in here to make steel mills, patchy results
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[04:55:28] <gloops> well i suppose i better think about getting to it, the mrs wants to see some products off this thing haha
[04:56:02] <gloops> i got two silverline 12 inch saw blades arrive this morning, £20 for the 2
[04:56:21] <gloops> slightly dubious about standing in front of these spinning at 2500 rpm
[05:03:46] <Loetmichel> gloops: i hope it doesent BEND but rather just flexes :)
[05:04:53] <Loetmichel> also it would have been useful to use ONE 300mm by 60mm rectangular tube than two 60 by 60 square ones.
[05:05:00] <Loetmichel> MUCH more rigid
[05:05:12] <Loetmichel> while not more room wasted
[05:05:30] <gloops> well im off
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[05:06:05] <sensille> or add a panel
[05:06:14] <Loetmichel> two panels
[05:06:22] <Loetmichel> one wouldnt help rigidness
[05:06:28] <Loetmichel> you need a "box"
[05:06:56] <sensille> depending on the flexing direction
[05:07:01] <Loetmichel> yes
[05:07:13] <Loetmichel> for torsion you need walls on both sides
[05:07:27] <Loetmichel> an I-beam is just rigid vertically
[05:08:05] <Loetmichel> an [] beam is rigid in every direction
[05:08:29] <Loetmichel> at least a lot more rigid than two beams like :
[05:09:12] <sensille> hm, if the torsion is the problem with our machine, wouldn't it be best to move the workpiece as high as possible? to reduce the lever of the spindle
[05:09:25] <sensille> s/move/mount
[05:09:52] <sensille> it should help a ton
[05:12:32] <rmu> make a final pass cuting from one direction, and then a spring pass
[05:14:38] <sensille> rmu: what cam are you using?
[05:15:01] <jthornton> morning
[05:15:23] <rmu> emacs, freecad, fusion, and some self-cooked stuff
[05:16:16] <sensille> in fusion a "spring passes" is just "multiple finishing passes", right?
[05:16:58] <Loetmichel> a spring pass is a second pass with the same cutting depth as last one
[05:17:43] <Loetmichel> so an "empty" pass that just cuts away any "torsion/flexing" caused inaccuacys
[05:17:49] <sensille> haven't seen that option in f360, but i think i can tell it to make multiple identical finishing passes
[05:18:49] <sensille> Loetmichel: would conventional milling or climb milling better for our machine?
[05:19:56] <Loetmichel> depends
[05:20:31] <Loetmichel> climb milling makes the cut slightly "larger", conventional slightly smaller, so a spring pass can cut something away
[05:20:47] <Loetmichel> i usually climb mill because it gives the better surface
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[06:00:18] <Loetmichel> *MAAAN* coworkers... Just came into the workshop, see the coworker using the air gun to blow alu chips off the CNC router... "Be careful to not blow them into the VFD!" Havent really spoken the whole sentence: *PATZ*... Workshop dark and quiet... How do i get that new 15N120 IGBT _now_? -> http://www.cyrom.org
[06:01:20] <XXCoder> sigh conductive chips..
[06:01:57] <XXCoder> maybe you can repair it
[06:02:07] <XXCoder> clean it first tho lol
[06:02:59] <XXCoder> some recifiers and some resistors blown off
[06:03:27] <XXCoder> ah and some very fried traces. hm
[06:03:37] <Loetmichel> XXCoder: down below is the fault.
[06:03:59] <Loetmichel> the cut off transistor has arc marks... and is 0,0 ohms across all pins
[06:06:43] <XXCoder> yeah though seems only basic stuff were broken? can you replace em?
[06:06:49] <XXCoder> i didnt see any chips fried
[06:07:43] <Loetmichel> hopefully ist just the single dead transistor (scoll down, the cut off one with the arc marcs
[06:08:04] <XXCoder> yeah i misremembered the name of part lol
[06:08:11] <XXCoder> saiod it was recifier
[06:09:20] <Tom_L> 33�F Hi 59
[06:09:27] <Tom_L> morning
[06:09:42] <XXCoder> high 47 low 35f lol
[06:09:55] <XXCoder> rained most of day but still so much snow.
[06:10:05] <XXCoder> I had to shovel a lot to get my car in parking spot
[06:10:08] <Tom_L> it will melt and make mud
[06:10:27] <XXCoder> make mud out of mud?
[06:23:33] <jthornton> today will be nice here sunny and 55
[06:24:02] <XXCoder> nice
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[07:14:01] <Deejay> re
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[07:24:06] <Loetmichel> soo, mounted the VFD from the other mill... Spindle spins up... ALL steppers are "ghost turning"... i HATE cheap china VFDs... no filtering at ALL :-(
[07:24:31] <XXCoder> bleh
[07:24:39] <XXCoder> so its alive eh
[07:24:57] <XXCoder> is there anything that can clean it up?
[07:25:05] <XXCoder> ie get rid of noise
[07:26:31] <Loetmichel> a 3 phase LC filter would do the trick. if i had one
[07:27:08] <XXCoder> might need it if its affecting steppers
[07:27:25] <Loetmichel> yes
[07:27:35] <Loetmichel> not directly i suppose
[07:27:47] <Loetmichel> i think its going into the Stepper driver inputs
[07:28:16] <XXCoder> cleaning steppers data input?
[07:28:34] <sensille> is the input connected?
[07:29:17] <XXCoder> hm that;'d cancel data nm lol more like stepper controller power inputs? lol
[07:31:27] <XXCoder> oh yeah
[07:31:48] <XXCoder> Loetmichel: i saw people using caps on stepper controllers in order to prevent local brownouts
[07:32:02] <XXCoder> it was interesting but dunno if its worth doing on my tb6600s lol
[07:32:18] <XXCoder> but would it alos damp down noise?
[07:33:21] <Loetmichel> XXCoder: not brownouts. The VFD has so much EMI outgoing that it couples into the step/dir wires from the PC to the Stepper driver box.
[07:33:37] <Loetmichel> its not the power
[07:33:49] <Loetmichel> its the step/dir lines that get "dirty"
[07:33:53] <XXCoder> ahh ok
[07:34:11] <XXCoder> I suppose would be better to just emi sheild vfd?
[07:34:24] <Loetmichel> yes
[07:34:44] <Loetmichel> or get a good german one that is "quiet" already ,)
[07:35:36] <XXCoder> yeah probably though my cnc router dont use vfd type
[07:35:39] <XXCoder> just basic pwm
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[07:37:02] <Loetmichel> problem is that while those 3 phase spindles are great they need a special VFD setup
[07:37:29] <Loetmichel> because they are not "standard" ascnchronous motors for 50/60 hz
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[07:37:36] <Loetmichel> they run up to 400Hz.
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[07:38:11] <Loetmichel> a "standard" VFD will destroy them and/or be irritated and go "overcurrent" on low voltages
[07:38:17] <Loetmichel> low frequencys
[07:38:47] <jthornton> hot damn I finally got motioneye server back up and running
[07:38:54] <XXCoder> awesome hjt
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[07:44:04] <Tom_L> nearly got my single point thread macro working
[07:56:29] <jthornton> for a lathe or mill?
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[08:50:44] <PL7icnc> 1hr to go at bright sunnshine what a mess
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[09:39:29] <pcw_home> Loetmichel: a common mode choke (giant ferrite bead) around (all 3) spindle motor wires can help a lot
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[09:53:45] <Loetmichel> pcw_home: i got 5(!) giant common mode chokes ("klappferrite") on the spindle cable and the power cable each. waht helbed was to detach the Spindle on switch from the VFD. It seems the EMI carried over the shield of that cable back into the Stepper controller
[09:54:56] <rmu> Loetmichel: don't include the shield in the choke
[09:55:20] <Loetmichel> btw: got a piece of AlMg4,5Mn here that is the absolute horror to mill even with a specially ground "aluminium" 2 flute cutter... broke the off the 4th now from all that chattering.
[09:55:48] <Loetmichel> rmu: as i said: already solved it by disconnecting the spindle switch
[09:56:27] ttuner is now known as toxx
[09:56:36] <Loetmichel> is it possible that that alloy is bad for milling or did the seller just gave us garbage?
[09:56:58] <rmu> IME it machines OKish
[09:57:14] <rmu> (3-flute zirkonium coated carbide cutters)
[09:57:28] <Loetmichel> so its possible that the (ebay) seller sold us crap?
[09:57:46] <Loetmichel> NEVER had that much of a problem with AlMg3 that i usually order
[09:57:50] <rmu> who buys aluminium on ebay
[09:57:55] <Loetmichel> coworker
[09:59:12] <rmu> chatter probably means wrong feed or bad workholding or lacking stiffness in machine
[09:59:51] <Loetmichel> all of that. but the same parameters work pretty well with AlMg3 from a "known good" source
[10:01:20] <rmu> is it already anodized?
[10:01:38] <Loetmichel> nope
[10:02:16] <Loetmichel> and that wouldnt matter because tungsten carbide cutters. can cut AlO2 just fine ;)
[10:12:33] <gloops> finally cutting again after the very very final mods to machine haha
[10:12:48] <gloops> the welder and tap and die set are back in their resting places
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[10:40:07] <gloops> my hand built vertical table, with quick change camlock clamps, allows 4-8 box ends to be machined at once
[10:40:11] <gloops> https://www.youtube.com
[10:41:13] <gloops> touch off once, whip 4 boards in, lever down - press run, repeat, obviously this code is pretty sluggish but just a test
[10:52:45] <gregcnc> loetmichel are you running that AlMg4.5Mn with coolant?
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[10:53:11] <gregcnc> 5000 series tend to be sticky
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[11:03:08] <Loetmichel> gregcnc: both dry and with wd40
[11:03:13] <Loetmichel> no difference
[11:03:21] <Loetmichel> it smears like Al99.9
[11:04:30] <gregcnc> maybe you got dead soft vs hardened. it should be noted
[11:06:49] <Loetmichel> gregcnc: ebay... i doubt the coworker that bought it looked for "hardened"
[11:07:01] <Loetmichel> and it came lasercut, not sawn off.. ,)
[11:07:14] <Loetmichel> (its 20mm thick)
[11:08:05] <gregcnc> send me some aluminum please, whatever you have will be fine.....
[11:08:42] <Loetmichel> something like that
[11:09:04] <Loetmichel> i warned him that some aluminium sorts dont mill well... thats what you get when you dont listen
[11:09:09] <Loetmichel> :-)
[11:09:39] <Loetmichel> he has to pay a new VFD AND has 3 plates of aluminium that are useless for milling ;)
[11:09:39] <gregcnc> don't you have prints which specify?
[11:09:51] <Loetmichel> was his private project
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[11:10:37] <Loetmichel> i always specify AlMg3 sheet material when i send the boss to the metal dealer around the corner
[11:10:53] <Loetmichel> (he still manages to bring AlMg1 sometimes)
[11:11:27] <Loetmichel> (which is a PITA to mill, but still less "smearing" than the stuff the coworker brought)
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[11:38:39] <rmu> AlMg4,5Mn should be hard
[11:38:47] <rmu> (no soft state AFAIK)
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[12:30:44] <fragalot> evenin'
[12:33:05] <Deejay> hey there
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[13:21:03] <Loetmichel> re from a coworkers home. "Just changining the exhaust of a 125cc bike because her son thought it funny to empty the mufflers and the police didnt like that."... easy... three broken PH2 bits later: MAAAN what a tool "quality" at the home improvement shop. The face of my coworker when i ripped off three bit tips in three consectuive screws was priceless though ;)
[13:22:32] <fragalot> the quality of bits really has gone down massively in the last few years
[13:32:59] <sensille> can i repair a small cut in aluminum by soldering? probably not with a soldering iron ...
[13:33:39] <fragalot> there exists specialty aluminium "brazing" rods
[13:33:47] <fragalot> all you need is a blowtorch
[13:33:59] <fragalot> I have mixed results with them though. sometimes it works out great, sometimes it just does not hold
[13:34:47] <sensille> or maybe i can just fill it with glue. wanted to give it to powder coating anyway
[13:35:35] <fragalot> if it's just for aethetics, fill it with baking powder & drip on some runny thin CA glue
[13:36:52] <sensille> it's 3mm wide though
[13:37:10] <sensille> why baking powder?
[13:37:30] <fragalot> acts as a filler, and as an accellerant
[13:37:34] <fragalot> the glue will set nearly instantly
[13:38:59] <sensille> so i should fill it completely with baking power?
[13:38:59] <Loetmichel> indeed
[13:39:04] <sensille> interesting, i'll try that
[13:39:18] <sensille> and does it affect powder coating?
[13:39:19] <fragalot> sensille: avoid breathing the fumes
[13:39:22] <fragalot> you will hate yourself :P
[13:39:30] <Loetmichel> fill the woud with baking soda powder, drip thin CA glue into the powder so it soaks.
[13:39:36] <fragalot> good question, it is non-conductive, so it may
[13:39:39] <Loetmichel> instant "cement"
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[13:39:51] <Loetmichel> yeah, the fumes are quite nasty
[13:39:57] <Loetmichel> not only breathing, also to the eyes
[13:40:00] <Loetmichel> they "bite"
[13:41:18] <Loetmichel> sensille: you can solder alu with normal electronics solder. its tricky though. you need a blowtorch, some oil, a steel wire brush and some experience
[13:41:25] <Loetmichel> but it DOES work
[13:41:32] <fragalot> really?
[13:41:39] <sensille> but not with a soldering iron
[13:41:54] <Loetmichel> the trick is that the aluminium will oxidize instantly when exposed to air. especially at 300++°C
[13:41:57] <fragalot> sensille: not unless said soldering iron can put a few kW of heat into it :P
[13:42:02] <Jymmm> YAY for no electricity... NOT!
[13:42:41] <fragalot> Jymmm: still in the dark ages huh?
[13:43:26] <Loetmichel> so you clean the gash best as possible. then heat it up, put a high temp oil on the soldering joint to be to prevent oxygen to reach the surface, then heat it up to solder metl temperature, melt some solder into a puddle and "massage" it into the aluminium joint with the (stainless)steel brush.
[13:43:47] <Loetmichel> breaking the oxide layer with the brush and the oil prevents a new layer forming
[13:43:52] <Jymmm> fragalot: Pretty much, elecricity been out since 4am, 11am now. On gen for lights at least.
[13:43:57] <Loetmichel> works pretty well if you tried it a few times
[13:44:43] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: ping
[13:46:43] <sensille> Loetmichel: so not the right tools at hand, need to order them :( which oil would that be?
[13:47:40] <Loetmichel> any high temperature oil. engine oil should work
[13:47:53] <Jymmm> chain oil?
[13:47:55] <Loetmichel> its just there to prevent oxygen from reaching the aluminium surface
[13:48:25] <sensille> i could try with the gas stove :)
[13:49:30] <Loetmichel> sensille: if you have a way to fix the aluminium part to the stove so you have two hands to work the brush and simultaneously add more solder or oil that could work
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[13:50:18] <Loetmichel> just be careful that no oil drops into the flames... funny puffs of black soot arent really funny when the fire alarms trigger ;)
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[13:51:54] <sensille> i can borrow a third hand :)
[13:52:33] <sensille> which solder would be the right one? "fittingslot"?
[13:54:44] <Loetmichel> i used normal electronics solder
[13:54:59] <Loetmichel> but copper water line solder should work, too
[13:55:12] <Loetmichel> maybe add a bit of agressive flux then
[13:59:38] <Jymmm> and 10,000 volts =)
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[14:01:57] <_unreal_> sup
[14:01:59] <_unreal_> https://www.change.org
[14:04:08] * fragalot stares at the required_by_id tag
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[14:08:15] <_unreal_> ?
[14:10:06] <sensille> i already discovered the disadvantages of electrical probing the second day :( oxidation makes bad contact
[14:10:50] <fragalot> sensille: And that is why copper plating contacts is a thing :-)
[14:10:53] <Jymmm> fragalot: recruter by, not required by
[14:11:02] <fragalot> Jymmm: I stand corrected.
[14:11:17] <Jymmm> fragalot: no worries, I dont like those either
[14:11:19] <fragalot> read it right, typed it wrong :D
[14:11:41] <Jymmm> fragalot: LONG ASS url's bug the fsck out of me
[14:12:02] <fragalot> Jymmm: would you prefer a bit.ly version with god knows what in it?
[14:12:08] <Loetmichel> fragalot: copper plating dosent work that well to prevent oxidation
[14:12:18] <sensille> i have a collet for 3mm and one for 3.125mm, is it preferable to use the 3mm for a 3mm shank, or is it don't care? would have to switch all the time otherwise
[14:12:28] <Jymmm> fragalot: just friendly url's
[14:12:33] <fragalot> Loetmichel: because it is not an oxidation-free material...
[14:12:39] <Loetmichel> usually low power contacts are gold plated and high power contacts are massive silver or a silver/tungsten sinter material
[14:13:11] <Loetmichel> because silver oxide is mechanically SO weak that the closing contacts can displace it
[14:14:35] <fragalot> sensille: it is always preferable to use the correct collet
[14:14:58] <fragalot> the other one might work, but the tool won't be held as well as it could
[14:15:37] <sensille> it's well within spec (-0.5mm), but i thought it might be worth switching
[14:15:59] <Loetmichel> it IS worth switching
[14:16:31] <fragalot> being lazy is not an excuse :-)
[14:16:50] <Loetmichel> if anything because the ER11 collets tend to bend down when used with small diameters a lot, so you will have probelms to get an 1/8" shank in there after using a few 2mm ones
[14:17:06] <Loetmichel> 3mm ones
[14:17:31] <fragalot> just wrap some tape around the 3mm shanks to make them 1/8"
[14:17:34] * fragalot nods
[14:17:58] <rmu> _unreal_: what is the issue with logitech
[14:18:00] <Loetmichel> fragalot: THATS asking for trouble
[14:18:27] <fragalot> Loetmichel: :D
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[14:27:41] <sensille> so the soldering totally worked not at all
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[14:45:17] <gloops> my new box jig is up and running lol 4-8 board at once https://www.youtube.com
[14:46:31] <fragalot> neat :)
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[14:46:50] <fragalot> you could probably save a lot of time if you cut on the back stroke rather than moving it up every time
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[14:51:03] <gloops> yeah i think we came to that conclusion before fragalot, it is a bit of sluggish code really, ill work on it to speed it up
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[14:59:04] <JT-Shop> pong
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[15:02:04] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com Underwater Aluminum Welding
[15:03:02] <fragalot> 1:50
[15:03:08] <fragalot> what an expert explanation :D
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[15:08:56] <CaptHindsight> https://youtu.be
[15:09:08] <CaptHindsight> double barrel welding
[15:09:13] <fragalot> texas tig?
[15:09:23] <fragalot> oh no this is worse, lol
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[15:14:50] <CaptHindsight> I need to write some fluff articles on 5+D printing, 4D is getting old
[15:15:33] <fragalot> don't forget you need to include in-process milling & CMM functionality
[15:15:48] <fragalot> bonus points if you can lathe it
[15:15:53] <fragalot> (in place, of course)
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[15:17:37] <CaptHindsight> https://www.3dprintingmedia.network
[15:18:19] <fragalot> oh no
[15:20:01] <CaptHindsight> looks like they shipped a few at a loss to prove it works
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[15:20:21] <CaptHindsight> and did a live demo in NYC at some printing fair
[15:21:17] <CaptHindsight> http://kickscammed.com
[15:22:56] <CaptHindsight> contacted us again for resin, forgot they did so 2 years ago
[15:23:29] <CaptHindsight> scamming so long they forget who they even talked to
[15:23:59] <fragalot> or hoped that you would
[15:24:41] <CaptHindsight> scammers are pretty much the same....
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[15:24:58] <CaptHindsight> they don't want to email after one or two...
[15:25:13] <CaptHindsight> they want to get on the phone so there is little written record
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[15:42:46] <adamj12b> Hello Everyone, I am trying to gauge what a good acceleration rate is for a 5500lb bed mill with 1kw servos would be. I feel like mine is set a bit low at 15in/sec^2. Thoughts?
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[15:43:53] <andypugh> What is your max velocity?
[15:45:00] <andypugh> The reason I ask is that you can then easily work out what distance the machine needs to reach max velocity, and if that is measured in feet then you probbaly do have too-low acceleration.
[15:45:26] <adamj12b> 258ipm (4.3 ips)
[15:45:28] <andypugh> You could just try increasing it until your following-error is too high, or you get scared :-)
[15:45:45] <adamj12b> O its already scary. lol
[15:46:38] <andypugh> Well, by my calculations that looks like 0 to max speed in 0.6”. That actually seems pretty swift to me on a machine that size
[15:47:39] <andypugh> It does mean that the minimum radius at a right-angle bend is also 0.6”, so you would have to take care with rapids inside the work.
[15:48:14] <adamj12b> I spent some time yesterday re-tuning my Z axis using 25in/sec^2. Here is the plot. https://photos.app.goo.gl
[15:48:30] <andypugh> (Minimum radius for rapids, that is. I doubt you cut at 258ipm very often?)
[15:49:08] <adamj12b> Yes, Im trying to get it to be tighter in the corners. Ive noticed alot of rounding on YZ rapid moves that have caused a few very close calls.
[15:50:02] <andypugh> Looks like a peak error or 0.0004”. That seems pretty good at 4ips.
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[15:50:33] <adamj12b> yes. that is correct. More impressive is this is Torque mode control.
[15:51:12] <andypugh> You could try doubling the axis accel, it will either work or give you a following error fault.
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[15:51:23] <adamj12b> It took alot of time to get it that tight but its under 0.0005 over the 0-258ipm range.
[15:51:52] <andypugh> That’s a lot better than I have bothered to tune my machines to, to be honest.
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[15:52:21] <PL7icnc> Good Evening
[15:52:36] -!- fragalot has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
[15:52:39] <PL7icnc> German from Forum Here as he anounced
[15:52:54] <andypugh> Hallo!
[15:52:58] <adamj12b> I searched for some time, but havnt found a good reference of whats "Good Enough"
[15:53:04] <PL7icnc> gloops, are you here
[15:53:31] <gloops> yes, hello
[15:53:36] <andypugh> adamj12b: I would say that only you can define “good enough”.
[15:53:39] <PL7icnc> andypugh, German Citizen ?
[15:53:53] <PL7icnc> gloops, 1000 hits in 1 week
[15:54:06] <andypugh> Nein. Ich in Inselaffe. :-)
[15:54:09] <PL7icnc> gloops, did you know how many Ich got
[15:54:10] <gloops> yeah see, those videos are much appreciated
[15:54:25] <gloops> ich got a lot of hits, more than that in a day sometimes
[15:54:25] <PL7icnc> andypugh, ?
[15:54:39] <gloops> i know he answered hundreds of emails
[15:54:51] <PL7icnc> gloops, People starting to find the Channel
[15:55:00] <andypugh> (typo in = bin)
[15:55:08] <PL7icnc> I did Refuse email connection
[15:55:23] <PL7icnc> andypugh, inselaffe ?
[15:55:34] <gloops> yeah, id put all the vids back on PL7icnc, thousands of people building those simple stepper machines all the time
[15:55:35] <PL7icnc> andypugh, Hallig Usedom
[15:56:41] <PL7icnc> gloops, Youtube is refusing alot as the ID/checksum is uploaded less then 2years ago
[15:56:55] <PL7icnc> gloops, i need to recompile them
[15:57:06] <PL7icnc> rubberband transform
[15:57:24] <andypugh> adamj12b: The way I see it, once your tuning error is in the order of your backlash and machine flex, you are chasing precision that can’t be achieved. Though I _really_ need to re-visit the tuning on my lathe X, it takes several seconds to pull in that last 0.01mm
[15:57:44] <adamj12b> andypugh: In your opinion, would 60in/sec^2 be too high or still acceptable? The reason I ask is I did a lot of diffing and a comparable machine in size and weight(Haas VF2) uses 60in/sec^2 for acceleration.
[15:57:51] <PL7icnc> Best is that now All CNC relevant Apps are on bionic direct synaptic Apt
[15:57:56] <adamj12b> I was getting a ring on deceleration and it was driving me nuts.
[15:58:40] <adamj12b> it was only about 0.0015" but would make the counterweight make alot of noise.
[15:58:57] <PL7icnc> adamj12b, i got all Trapezional Mashines and they do not loos steps at all at max 2500mm/min
[15:59:10] <andypugh> adamj12b: I suspect that Haas spent a lot of time matching servos to axes. Was your machine built as CNC, or is it a conversion?
[15:59:20] <PL7icnc> at Aluminium milling hard stuff its so cool
[15:59:35] <adamj12b> built. It had an Anilam control
[15:59:47] <andypugh> What did the original Anilam achieve?
[15:59:53] <adamj12b> previous tuning: https://photos.app.goo.gl
[15:59:59] <PL7icnc> adamj12b, did you adjust the Leadscrew system
[16:00:14] <andypugh> I wouldn’t count on getting mush more out of the mechanics than the Anilam did.
[16:00:19] <adamj12b> I never got to run it. It was damaged by the riggers and i never bothered to fix an outdated control.
[16:00:36] <andypugh> any specs online?
[16:00:51] <adamj12b> PL7icnc: Sorry, Im not following.
[16:01:16] <PL7icnc> No Problem only one can help you at the time
[16:01:23] <adamj12b> I have the controller in storage. I will boot it to see if I can find some acceleration numbers. The machine was originally a tool room machine so I assume it was detuned.
[16:01:44] <PL7icnc> adamj12b, mm or inch
[16:01:49] <adamj12b> inch
[16:02:00] <PL7icnc> im off not my system
[16:02:15] <andypugh> 25.4
[16:02:32] <PL7icnc> i always start at 40 / 120 as requested
[16:02:36] <andypugh> That’s all you need to convert
[16:02:42] <PL7icnc> maning 2400mm/min
[16:03:13] <PL7icnc> 2inch per second
[16:03:35] <PL7icnc> and acc then 6inch second square
[16:04:01] <adamj12b> Here is a pic of the machine from a few months ago. https://photos.app.goo.gl
[16:04:09] <PL7icnc> then go as you see no error double
[16:04:11] <Connor> Anyone know anything about a Walker 6x12 surface grinder? I'm trying to find some specs on it, or a manual.. and can't find anything.
[16:04:13] <adamj12b> 30X 20Y 23Z
[16:04:18] <andypugh> He is at 15 in/s2 = 380mm/s2
[16:04:46] <adamj12b> and Z is at 25 in/s2 currently.
[16:05:04] <PL7icnc> andypugh, cut it in half and see
[16:05:19] <PL7icnc> andypugh, what is his backlash
[16:05:39] <adamj12b> backlash is under 0.001 on all 3 axis
[16:05:43] <adamj12b> in
[16:05:52] <andypugh> PL7icnc: You seem to be answering the wrong question… He is wondering whether more acceleration would be reasonable.
[16:06:23] <PL7icnc> andypugh, it all depends on his work
[16:06:28] <CaptHindsight> Connor: walker makes magnetic chucks http://www.walkermagnet.com
[16:06:34] <PL7icnc> Plasmas need higher then mill
[16:07:00] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com
[16:07:06] <adamj12b> I am working on mapping the screws using a 1 micron linear encoder, but had to put that project on hold.
[16:07:40] <Connor> CaptHindsight: Yea.. I saw that.. and I'm wondering if the older gentleman isn't using that for the make of the machine..
[16:07:45] <gloops> is this a vintage grinder - walker-turner?
[16:07:49] <gloops> or just walker
[16:07:57] <Connor> it does have a variable magnetic chuck on it.
[16:08:09] <CaptHindsight> Connor: looks like a pretty standard manual surface grinder
[16:08:09] <PL7icnc> adamj12b, what Voltige are this Steppers on
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[16:08:20] <Connor> You tell me. The listing said Walker, and that's the picture of it.
[16:08:39] <PL7icnc> adamj12b, seams that they are 5V so you need at least 36V
[16:08:41] <Connor> $600.00 for it..
[16:08:48] <CaptHindsight> $400
[16:08:48] <Connor> Didn't sound all that bad too me..
[16:08:50] <adamj12b> PL7icnc: 1kW AC servos. DMM-Tech.com Dyn4 amplifiers.
[16:09:13] <gloops> 600 is not OTT for that i wouldnt have thought
[16:09:13] <PL7icnc> Oh Highteech adamj12b
[16:09:24] <Connor> It is 3-phase..
[16:09:47] <CaptHindsight> 1HP?
[16:09:51] <Connor> Older guy, diagnosed with Cancer.
[16:09:56] <PL7icnc> adamj12b, is the encoder giving back the commands as you said you tried to liniar scale
[16:09:58] <adamj12b> 1.3HP
[16:10:07] <Connor> Dunno.. I'm going to go inspect in the next few days.
[16:10:24] <CaptHindsight> Connor: if everything works
[16:10:46] <PL7icnc> at 50 years of age cancer is always around the next iinspection
[16:10:53] <Connor> He said it's still under power and we can even grind something while I'm there.
[16:11:01] <gloops> if youre looking at the badge on the magnet - thats just the chuck maker, not the machine itself
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[16:11:15] <adamj12b> the linear scale is not for positioning. The rotory encoders do position feedback. The linear was just fed to the A axis so I could use the log output to write commanded position and actual position to a CSV to compute error for the compensation file.
[16:11:20] <PL7icnc> gloops, is my Upload Mix good for You
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[16:12:31] <PL7icnc> adamj12b, you need to check this minimum 3 times bevor beliving a real
[16:12:35] <gloops> PL7icnc yes not a bad mix, im going to watch some myself, i see the freecad vids are getting quite a lot of hits too
[16:13:09] <PL7icnc> gloops, i need to connect this guys at freecad
[16:13:26] <PL7icnc> gloops, they removed Ichs aplications also
[16:13:45] <gloops> #freecad - some of the developers come in here, Ichs was working on Freecad i think
[16:13:58] <andypugh> Connor: Those handles are pretty distinctive, maybe try a google images search like https://www.google.com
[16:14:18] <PL7icnc> gloops, ive seen some repro git action on the main Education PC
[16:14:37] <adamj12b> PL7icnc: I was doing an average after 5 runs, but I was getting noise on the encoder line which was causing drift in the reading. I will get back to it soon.
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[16:15:13] <PL7icnc> adj remove the cabled get the double shilded ones
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[16:16:05] <adamj12b> a good portion seemed to come from the power supply but didnt have the stuff handy to build a better filter at the time.
[16:16:34] <PL7icnc> as time goes by mashines getting better
[16:17:11] <PL7icnc> i need to leave class is waiting at 8am
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[16:17:59] <Connor> It looks like to me it's also a little benchtop unit..
[16:18:09] <Connor> which is kinda nice.. I didn't want a very large one..
[16:18:53] <XXCoder> magnet thing?
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[16:19:17] <gloops> guard over the wheel might be an idea
[16:20:14] <gloops> saw a surface grinding wheel go when i was about 18 - like a flak gun lol
[16:20:50] <adamj12b> andypugh: will adjusting acceleration greatly effect tuning, or is it something I can play with and just watch the following error till I find the max?
[16:21:17] <andypugh> You should be able to change the accel in LinuxCNC and not need to change servo tuning at all.
[16:21:27] <adamj12b> Fantastic
[16:21:59] <Connor> He has the guard.
[16:25:01] <adamj12b> one additional question before I go. I am changing the spindle on the machine and the new one will allow me to set up spindle orientation. Currently the VFD takes an analog speed command and forward/reverse digital signals. Would this be suitable to orient or should I look into the other input methods the drive supports?
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[16:27:48] <andypugh> That should be perfectly usable for spindle orient.
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[16:29:34] <adamj12b> Cool. Thanks for the info.
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[16:31:19] <Connor> OMG How many different surface grinders are there...
[16:31:43] <XXCoder> Answer is always "more than you expect"
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[16:34:12] <Connor> http://www.lathes.co.uk
[16:34:23] <Connor> Those hand wheels look the same...
[16:34:33] <Connor> That's a Sanford..
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[16:40:43] <roycroft> there are 42 different types of surface grinders
[16:40:56] <gloops> looks like this one https://www.youtube.com
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[16:42:32] <gloops> www.d-and-d.com/misc/MANUALS/Sanford/SCANNINGS/Flyer-1.pdf
[16:43:07] <andypugh> lathes.co.uk is definitely the best web site in the world.
[16:43:29] <gloops> sg48 , some scant info on that flyer
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[16:44:37] <CaptHindsight> https://www.fischer-modell.de
[16:44:50] <CaptHindsight> trains ^^
[16:46:35] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: Spent a day at Miniature Wunderland in Hamburg at New Year. Probbaly the biggest train set in the world.
[16:47:02] <CaptHindsight> have only seen pics
[16:47:28] <CaptHindsight> coreboot had a fest there years ago but I missed it, should have gone
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[16:48:32] <andypugh> It’s pretty impressive. https://www.miniatur-wunderland.com
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[16:53:08] <Connor> So, do we think it might be a Sanfard then? Based on those hand wheels?
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[16:54:58] <andypugh> It looks a lot like one to me, the overall design is also very similar.
[16:55:48] <Deejay> gn8
[16:56:13] <andypugh> It’s pretty small, or the guy has very big boots.
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[16:56:41] <Connor> It's small. I don't need something huge..
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[16:56:59] <andypugh> I wasn’t saying that was a bad thing. I think I could make a space for that myself.
[16:56:59] <Connor> I was wondering if they made a benchtop surface grinder..
[16:57:02] <Connor> looks like they doo.
[16:57:35] <Connor> 4" Wheel?
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[16:57:54] <Connor> or maybe a 6"
[16:58:31] <Connor> What's the deal with dry grinding vs wet grinding?
[16:58:36] <andypugh> Worn 6” assuming a 12” foot fits in the boots :-)
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[16:59:17] <Connor> it's listed as a 6x12
[16:59:36] <Connor> So, I'm not sure if that's the size of the chuck, or the size of the travel
[16:59:47] <Jymmm> IS JT-Shop awol ???
[17:01:39] <CaptHindsight> https://imgur.com always strap the machine to the truck when moving
[17:02:17] <CaptHindsight> have to glue that back on someday :)
[17:05:05] <Jymmm> Does this look liek air hose quick connect??? https://propanewarehouse.com
[17:06:09] <andypugh> Are the ini.N.max_limit pins etc documented? Which component do they belong to?
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[17:11:18] <Connor> https://www.stvrainmfg.com
[17:11:26] <Connor> I think that's the one.
[17:11:52] <Connor> Same base, some wheels, tapered column
[17:12:26] <gloops> just needs a control system now Connor
[17:12:54] <Connor> Even the guard is mounted the same.
[17:15:06] <Connor> 1HP, 1-1/4" arbor. 6" x 10" chuck.
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[17:40:12] * Jymmm is back, scred yet?
[17:40:35] <CaptHindsight> boo
[17:40:50] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: power back on?
[17:40:57] <andypugh> I am always scred
[17:41:05] <Jymmm> No, just the ups is flipping out on the generator
[17:42:21] <Jymmm> andypugh: But, you won't have to replace the roof for another 150 yers, so don't have to be scared about that
[17:43:03] <andypugh> The roof hasn’t been touched for weeks, as I have been skiing and such instead (and waiting for better roofing weather)
[17:43:24] <Jymmm> andypugh: I thoguht you were done with the roof about 5 years ago?
[17:44:06] <andypugh> Ahh, I thought you were talking about the shed roof that I started to repair at Christmas.
[17:44:45] <Jymmm> Oh, I didnt know about that project
[17:44:53] <andypugh> Start of the job, christmas Eve https://photos.app.goo.gl
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[17:45:43] <andypugh> Got this far by New-year https://photos.app.goo.gl
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[17:47:36] <Jymmm> is that a metal skin I see?
[17:48:18] <Jymmm> andypugh: That's an awesme view you have there
[17:48:30] <Jymmm> andypugh: how many acres?
[17:49:17] <andypugh> I used a layer of 6mm Stokboard. The problem with that roof is that the pitch isn’t really steep enough for the roofing material.
[17:50:06] <andypugh> There is almost no land with the house. My mu was renting 5 acres down the hill, but as she is 78 and never even went for a walk on it, she let the rent lapse.
[17:50:36] <Tom_L> may as well get the view for free
[17:50:40] <lostinsip> evening all
[17:51:32] <lostinsip> How's it going Jymmm did you get the heating working yet?
[17:51:44] <Jymmm> andypugh: You have to RENT land togo for a walk?
[17:52:28] <Jymmm> lostinsip: I got parts, the rain and snow stopped me, then the electricity has been out for 11 hours now too =)
[17:52:49] <andypugh> You can enjoy the view in Google Maps here: https://goo.gl
[17:52:49] <Tom_L> got a gen goin?
[17:53:20] <andypugh> Jymmm: No, she was renting the right to farm it. But wasn’t doing anything at all with it.
[17:53:31] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: pong
[17:53:37] <lostinsip> Ah no what a pain Jymmm
[17:53:50] <lostinsip> I hope you get back up and running soon :)
[17:53:51] <Jymmm> Tom_L: Yeah, it's a nice little dual fuel gen.
[17:54:14] <Tom_L> iirc we discussed dual fuel back when i was considering it
[17:54:37] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Hey, I was just wonderfing how you tapped into your big propane tank? how did you terminate the ends?
[17:54:41] <Tom_L> do you have to start on gasoline?
[17:54:50] <Jymmm> nope
[17:55:02] <Jymmm> pull and electric start too
[17:55:32] <JT-Shop> just used flare fittings and copper tubing to run from the tank to the house
[17:55:50] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Oh, I thought you used air hose
[17:56:12] <JT-Shop> air hose for my cajun cooker
[17:56:55] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Yeah, how did you connect each end, ? Acnme fitting to the coooker, and ???
[17:57:54] <Jymmm> Tom_L: amazon and ebay have free shipping
[17:58:08] <lostinsip> I have a random question hi does anyone have any experience connecting a wacom graphics tablet with gimp or inkscape in linux?
[17:58:09] <JT-Shop> the cooker has a QD air fitting on it as it is made from a peice of pipe
[17:58:24] <lostinsip> oops sorry a bit of copypasta with a random hi
[17:58:45] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: ok, and to the tank???
[17:58:54] <andypugh> lostinsip: Not altogether off-topic though.
[17:59:06] <JT-Shop> normal regulator
[17:59:11] <Jymmm> Tom_L: There is a 10K version too... https://www.amazon.com
[17:59:36] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: But did you plumb it to a QD or direct or ???
[17:59:55] <JT-Shop> what is an it?
[18:00:15] <lostinsip> thanks andypugh yeah i wondered if anyone uses them
[18:00:43] <Jymmm> {250gal tank} --> {regulator} --- pipe --- ??? ---airhose
[18:01:10] <JT-Shop> 20lb tank regulator hose QD QD cooker
[18:01:18] <lostinsip> My partner is looking at a used one from a friend and looking via google it looks like it is supported but more info is always good before shelling out!
[18:01:24] <JT-Shop> also use that on my 100lb tank
[18:01:30] <Jymmm> OH! I thought you were tapping intoa a BIG 250 gal tank
[18:02:00] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Ok, so pipe, ball vlave then qd ?
[18:02:14] <JT-Shop> I could boil crawfish for a few years connected to the 500 gallon tank lol
[18:02:29] <Jymmm> Or are you trusting the QD to do it's job =)
[18:02:33] <JT-Shop> no just like I said above
[18:02:47] <Jymmm> ok, thanks
[18:02:49] <JT-Shop> the 20lb tank has a valve...
[18:03:14] <Jymmm> and the 100lb?
[18:03:24] <JT-Shop> the QD is for convenience to carry the cooker without having to lug the tank at the same time
[18:03:36] <Jymmm> Oh
[18:03:45] <JT-Shop> same setup on the 100lb it's the same as a 20lb only bigger
[18:03:56] <Jymmm> See, I'm tappig intot eh existing propane gas pipe to the house
[18:05:44] <JT-Shop> I use gas valves at the house in case I need to shut off the kitchen or the heater for service
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[18:06:44] <Jymmm> There is one for that already, I'm just adding an exttra valve for the QD so I can lock it off.
[18:07:40] <JT-Shop> I would not mount a QD directly on a generator, I would have a short hose then the QD so it does not vibrate and wear out
[18:08:44] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Good idea, thanks.
[18:09:58] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I'm thinking a Male QD connected to this https://www.amazon.com
[18:16:10] <lostinsip> im off to bed guys, good luck with the heating and power Jymmm
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[18:16:43] <Jymmm> power back
[18:16:51] <Jymmm> need to shutdown the gen, brb
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[18:24:59] <sparq> Hey, has anyone tried building a DRO out of anything other than a pair of calipers? I'm looking at some darkfield optical sensors for gaming mice that say they can do 12,000 counts-per-inch in the datasheet, which is... interesting.
[18:25:48] <SpeedEvil> sparq: readout speed can be quite slow
[18:26:05] <SpeedEvil> also, mice while they may do 12000CPI, don't do it repeatedly
[18:26:34] <sparq> Hmm.
[18:26:56] <SpeedEvil> in principle, you could use pretty much any camera, and finely focus it on a scale, or random dot pattern and track it in software
[18:28:28] * sparq waits for the inevitable "in practice"
[18:28:38] <andypugh> Renishaw have a very clever system that uses a non-repeating pattern and a camera. The camera gets absolute position by reading the bar code, and the really fine position by where the pattern is in the camera field of view.
[18:29:35] <sparq> That's neat
[18:30:11] <andypugh> https://www.renishaw.com
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[18:31:28] <andypugh> Wow! “ All this while maintaining 1 nm resolution at 100 m/s”
[18:33:39] <sparq> I wonder how far you have to move one of these mouse sensors before it looses repeatability. If it's a millimeter or three, you could maybe use a cheap laser rangefinder to get the course position, and only rely on the mouse sensor for very fine relative movements?
[18:35:33] <sparq> My machine is tiny, so mounting scales for DROs is going to kinda suck.
[18:38:22] <sparq> andypugh: This page is really cool
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[18:51:10] <Jymmm> Tom_L: I'm VERY pleased with the gen. I haven't even put gasoline in it at all. Comes with the propane hose and regulator, 12V battery, wheel kit, Just need a 5gal bbq propane tank. It just ran for 12 hours non stop on about 1/2 tank (I'm guessing)
[18:51:56] <Jymmm> Tom_L: I do use Mobile One oil though
[18:52:23] <Jymmm> OH, and you need oil too, forgot =)
[18:53:00] <Jymmm> 43,000 people without power
[18:54:17] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: how wide an oxcart can you get down that path?
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[18:54:29] <Jymmm> lmao @ CaptHindsight
[18:55:25] <Jymmm> Tom_L: Here's the 10KW version... https://www.amazon.com
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[18:57:16] <CaptHindsight> thats the kind of England we only see in movies here
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[18:57:58] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: midevil england only though
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[19:01:19] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: Some of the bigger cars I borrow from work barely fit.
[19:02:22] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: same paths for 800+ years?
[19:02:31] <Jymmm> andypugh: Any actual horse drawn wooden wagons?
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[19:04:16] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: I don’t think anyone lived there 800 years ago. The house is the oldest (remaining) in the valley and is only about 550 years old.
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[19:05:04] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: ah I though it was a bit older
[19:05:11] <CaptHindsight> though/thought
[19:05:46] <andypugh> Talking about wooden transport, I couldn’t stop watching this series: https://youtu.be
[19:06:12] <CaptHindsight> https://en.wikipedia.org
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[19:11:46] <CaptHindsight> deliver boat, build shed around boat
[19:13:16] <CaptHindsight> more projects not for single parents
[19:13:46] <andypugh> He is a single parent of a boat.
[19:13:53] <CaptHindsight> heh
[19:14:13] <CaptHindsight> I managed to 99% finish one old car
[19:14:28] <CaptHindsight> partially gut a house while living in it
[19:15:06] <CaptHindsight> 18 years where any free time was spent sleeping
[19:16:58] <CaptHindsight> you have to do those projects because you just love the work
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[20:11:22] <CaptHindsight> https://www.armytimes.com(100)/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-mco.s3.amazonaws.com/public/5TUAHLFBZZGFFCOFMZYRJCHWIY.jpg
[20:12:00] <CaptHindsight> 77 years under the ocean
[20:15:16] <andypugh> looks like it would start
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[20:19:02] <CaptHindsight> https://www.navytimes.com
[20:19:20] <CaptHindsight> still on its deck
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[20:39:38] <asdfasd1> anyone tried iron plating on copper?
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[21:01:43] <CaptHindsight> just you :)
[21:02:27] <CaptHindsight> asdfasd1: I'd ask here: https://www.finishing.com
[21:06:11] <asdfasd1> I did look there, only 1 person seems to have experience, and his last reply is from 2007
[21:06:59] <Jymmm> I"m wondering why iron on copper, instead of the other way around.
[21:07:00] <CaptHindsight> ask anyway
[21:07:04] <CaptHindsight> don't be shy
[21:07:14] <asdfasd1> soldering iron tips
[21:07:29] <asdfasd1> copper core with iron protective coating
[21:07:31] <CaptHindsight> some people have been on there for years and years, since the site began or even longer :)
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[21:09:51] <Jymmm> Eh, all you need is a battery, iron brake disc and some baking soda =)
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[21:12:07] <asdfasd1> sorry disconnected
[21:12:20] <asdfasd1> what you mean with baking soda and brake disk?
[21:14:13] <Jymmm> basic electroplating
[21:14:58] <asdfasd1> does it work for plating iron on copper?
[21:16:08] <Jymmm> I don't know, never tried it like that
[21:17:06] <asdfasd1> I know some people here do proper electroplating, one of them is rob_h but he seems to be missing for a long time
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[21:21:30] <CaptHindsight> asdfasd1: you have been following the proper formulas...
[21:21:55] <CaptHindsight> you just need some experience with good chemistry practices
[21:22:33] <asdfasd1> I did some plating
[21:22:52] <asdfasd1> but when heated/cooled it cracks
[21:22:55] <CaptHindsight> it takes more a than good recipe to make a good meal
[21:23:41] <asdfasd1> and also it seems doesnt stick strong enough to the copper
[21:23:55] <asdfasd1> I dont know how to resolve these 2 problems
[21:24:18] <asdfasd1> I did try with a help of nickel
[21:24:27] <asdfasd1> much better, but still not good enough
[21:24:37] <CaptHindsight> if you ask on the finishing forums you will get answers from you need more practice to maybe someone who knows the exact issue
[21:24:54] <CaptHindsight> even if they already know
[21:25:16] <CaptHindsight> post the steps you followed and pics
[21:25:39] <CaptHindsight> the more info you have the better the answers will be
[21:25:58] <asdfasd1> most of their answers are advertising their books
[21:26:13] <asdfasd1> if any useful answer appear it is years later
[21:26:48] <CaptHindsight> hire a consultant
[21:26:57] <asdfasd1> haha
[21:27:16] <asdfasd1> if that was for a business - I would definitely do it
[21:27:36] <asdfasd1> for a hobby - I better give up
[21:32:38] <Jymmm> Um, just try it? You dont have a car battery or DC power supply?
[21:33:14] <asdfasd1> I did try it, with proper recepy, with proper power supply
[21:33:27] <asdfasd1> but iron plating is very tricky
[21:33:52] <asdfasd1> and Im missing something important, but dont know what it is
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[21:49:46] <fdarling> I am trying to test a custom Smart Serial (Mesa Electronics card compatible), and I was hoping to do this from my non-realtime desktop of even from a virtual machine. Does anyone know if it's strictly necessarily to have realtime to interface with an ethernet based Mesa FPGA card?
[21:51:34] <flyback> https://youtu.be
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[22:04:04] <Elmo40> flyback, people have way too much free time on their hands to build an 8-bit computer on breadboards...
[22:04:53] <Elmo40> sure, if he is a teacher and showing kids then it would be fine but for 'personal fun' ?? Ugh... I have a thousand better things to do with my time than making blinking lights.
[22:04:57] <fdarling> Elmo40: you've seen that guy who not only built his own wire wrap computer, but wrote a compiler for it and runs a webserver, right?
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[22:05:02] <Elmo40> eating a taco comes to mind ;-)
[22:05:27] <Elmo40> no. that sounds even more backwards
[22:05:45] <fdarling> https://www.youtube.com
[22:11:58] <flyback> https://www.youtube.com
[22:12:02] <Elmo40> http://oi64.tinypic.com
[22:12:19] <Elmo40> this is SAE30 at only -21C !!
[22:12:42] <Elmo40> it was standard back in the 20-40's
[22:12:55] <Elmo40> imagine trying to start your car with that?
[22:13:37] <Elmo40> silly thing is that old shit is *still* being used today!!
[22:13:49] <Elmo40> but not for educational purposes, like that 8-bit video ;-)
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[23:07:07] <CaptHindsight> just flip the pic 90 deg and everything is fine
[23:15:10] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81
[23:15:17] <Tom_L> got the macro working
[23:19:56] <Jymmm> Tom_L: whats the green?
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[23:23:49] <CaptHindsight> I went around collecting electrical power for you tonight
[23:24:06] <CaptHindsight> hope you accept donations
[23:24:49] <Tom_L> green is a 1/4 20 path and major minor diameters, the red is 3/8 and blue is major minor diameters for ti
[23:24:51] <Tom_L> it*
[23:24:52] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: have you heard of titanium engine blocks?
[23:25:37] <CaptHindsight> tiwake: usually just rods
[23:26:10] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: me and a friend were talking about making things with the SLS type machine I still want to build...
[23:26:44] <CaptHindsight> tiwake: they aren't that complicated
[23:26:57] <Tom_L> Jymmm i tested more than one at once there
[23:27:02] <tiwake> titanium should work better because its more thermally resistive than even steel
[23:27:07] <CaptHindsight> the laser and galvo are pretty trivial
[23:27:13] <tiwake> right
[23:27:40] <CaptHindsight> powder spreader and compactor that works to 300-400C is a bit more difficult
[23:28:00] <Jymmm> Tom_L: Ah, gotcha. Thought you were making an inner and outter threads at the same time =)
[23:28:05] <tiwake> yeah... heh.. preheat the machine
[23:29:20] <Tom_L> Jymmm, http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81
[23:29:23] <Tom_L> for what it's worth..
[23:29:29] <Tom_L> i doubt anybody else can use it
[23:29:45] <CaptHindsight> https://www.todaysmotorvehicles.com
[23:31:46] <tiwake> yeah, titanium alloys
[23:32:29] <CaptHindsight> vales are another
[23:32:35] <CaptHindsight> valves
[23:32:47] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: how much does titanium powder cost anyway?
[23:32:53] <tiwake> and aluminum for that matter
[23:33:41] <CaptHindsight> $10/kg and up
[23:34:16] <CaptHindsight> https://www.alibaba.com
[23:34:40] <Jymmm> Tom_L: Very cool =)
[23:35:02] <CaptHindsight> https://www.alibaba.com
[23:36:02] <CaptHindsight> tiwake: if you were making blocks then you could invest in a plasma nanoparticle generator and make it yourself
[23:36:29] <tiwake> I have never heard or seen that sequence of words before
[23:36:51] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com
[23:38:10] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com
[23:40:46] <tiwake> hmm
[23:42:26] <Jymmm> Um how would you unscrew these? I dont see any flats... https://www.amazon.com
[23:43:16] <MarcelineVQ> are they left-handed?
[23:43:39] <Tom_L> why would you?
[23:43:41] <MarcelineVQ> ah, no, nvm
[23:43:59] <Tom_L> there may be an internal hex you can't see
[23:44:23] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: wouldn't the differences in materials - titanium engine block and aluminum radiator+pistons cause erosion problems?
[23:44:32] <Tom_L> otherwise waterpump pliers it is...
[23:45:10] <CaptHindsight> tiwake: thats what all the extra surface treatments are for
[23:45:16] <Tom_L> MarcelineVQ those are not left handed
[23:46:20] <MarcelineVQ> Tom_L: yeah it was hard to tell in the first pic, it's clearer in the second
[23:46:50] <Tom_L> i must have missed the first one :)
[23:52:59] <CaptHindsight> tiwake: for every day use cast iron works and is far less expensive
[23:53:48] <tiwake> enh, yeah... we are talking multi-thousand hp engines though too
[23:54:00] <Jymmm> Tom_L: I was speaking more of the two male acme fittings,
[23:54:02] <Tom_L> most of those are aluminum blocks
[23:54:05] <CaptHindsight> tiwake: super fuel and F1 use aluminum blocks, super fuel has iron sleeves
[23:54:07] <tiwake> donno... I was just thinking about it
[23:54:19] <tiwake> yeah, steel sleeves
[23:54:26] <Tom_L> yeah afik they're all sleeved
[23:54:34] <tiwake> well no, not all
[23:55:07] <tiwake> whenever they talk about coated cylinder walls, its generally coated directly on the aluminum
[23:55:18] <tiwake> which is crap... because they are cheap bastards
[23:55:24] <Tom_L> what about thermal expansion and blowby?
[23:55:41] <tiwake> what about it?
[23:55:55] <Jymmm> Tom_L: THIS one has hex flats... https://www.amazon.com
[23:55:58] <Tom_L> that's why they use sleevs
[23:56:01] <Tom_L> es
[23:56:13] <tiwake> yeah
[23:57:04] <Tom_L> unless you're talking about a single summer use lawn mower etc
[23:57:25] <tiwake> heh
[23:57:37] <tiwake> the top fuel engines are one-shots... heh
[23:57:52] <Tom_L> the keith black i helped work on was sleeved
[23:58:05] <Tom_L> aluminum lower end and heads
[23:58:16] <tiwake> typical
[23:58:20] <Tom_L> 540cc iirc
[23:58:35] <Tom_L> cu in
[23:59:07] <CaptHindsight> https://imgur.com iron sleves and aluminum pistons for SLS printer powder and build beds
[23:59:15] <CaptHindsight> sleeves even
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