#linuxcnc | Logs for 2019-02-14

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[00:00:35] <CaptHindsight> 4.560-inch bore
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[00:01:38] <Tom_L> iirc the pistons my bud uses has different coatings around the skirt than the ring lands
[00:15:45] <Elmo40> CaptHindsight, those round rails, what is the name for those?
[00:16:11] <Elmo40> i'd like a set for my 3D printer. Maybe not as fat but I do like the round style.
[00:16:23] <Jymmm> round rails =)
[00:16:44] <skunkworks> https://youtu.be
[00:18:02] <MarcelineVQ> I like that vacuum tube on the facemill :>
[00:20:16] <skunkworks> ?
[00:20:24] <Elmo40> lovely little machine!
[00:20:37] <MarcelineVQ> that's quite the z travel
[00:21:41] <Elmo40> did I hear steppers ?
[00:21:55] <skunkworks> yes - no clue the specs.
[00:22:10] <skunkworks> running off a leadshine 3 axis driver
[00:23:01] <Jymmm> skunkworks: moves quick and smoothly, worlds most expensive kids toy ;)
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[00:27:27] <skunkworks> Jymmm: that is what soft limits are for
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[00:46:24] <CaptHindsight> Elmo40: https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com
[00:47:38] <CaptHindsight> https://www.thomsonlinear.com
[00:47:59] <CaptHindsight> https://www.thomsonlinear.com
[00:48:48] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automation-overstock.com
[00:49:28] <CaptHindsight> http://www.nookindustries.com
[00:49:40] <CaptHindsight> https://www.pbclinear.com
[00:50:51] <CaptHindsight> baby size with crunchy bearings https://www.adafruit.com
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[02:33:57] <Loetmichel> *ROFL* Ebay-aluminium-seller is absolved... Error was in front of keyboard, as always... *Note to self: When changing VFDs: double check that the Spindle phases are correctly sequenced... Spindle ran in reverse. No wonder it melted and chattered instead of cutting. Just strange that it removed material AT ALL!
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[02:47:38] <gloops> did you manage to get the spindle going the right way Loetmichel?
[02:48:26] <Loetmichel> gloops: of course. just had to switch two phase wires
[02:48:34] <sensille> btw, i got aluminum from motedis and it is nicely flat
[02:48:51] <Loetmichel> still: didnt notice the wrong spin direction all day yesterday
[02:49:25] <sensille> "somehow this sound different. must be the VFD."
[02:50:20] <gloops> im useless with those situations, press run and some disaster is unfolding before my eyes - i just stand watching it instead of pressing stop
[02:50:49] <sensille> oh, i know that feeling
[02:51:11] <sensille> just gawking
[02:54:21] <Loetmichel> sensille: i tried everything, resharpening tools, different speeds, different feeds, different tools... no avail.. i concluded it must have been Al99.9 instead of AlMg4.5Mn because "reinalu" behaves similar with spindle in forward.
[02:54:43] <Loetmichel> at 24kRPM you just dont notice that the spindle is turning the wrong way
[02:55:26] <sensille> and you felt really stupid when you found out, eh?
[02:55:41] <Loetmichel> indeed
[02:57:03] <Loetmichel> drove to the company this morning, had an epiphany... "what if the spindle runs backwards?"... got here, didnt even get rid of my coat, booted the CNC mill, started the spindle on low RPM: "yes, wrong direction..."
[02:57:29] <gloops> a habit ive got is to just click the spindle on and let it run slow for a bit while im setting up - just to let it warm it a bit, then again i still wouldnt have nopticed it going the wrong way lol
[02:57:58] <CaptHindsight> similar incident here with a hacksaw
[02:58:08] <CaptHindsight> put the blade in backward
[02:59:07] <gloops> my old teacher told me that the teeth should face back with a hand hacksaw, had no end of arguments over that over the years
[02:59:40] <gloops> japanese wood saw blades cut on the back stroke
[03:01:45] <Loetmichel> european hacksaws usually cut on the forward stroke, asian saws on the back stroke
[03:01:49] <Loetmichel> i know.
[03:01:59] <Loetmichel> been there done that ;)
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[03:09:51] <Deejay> moin
[03:11:01] <sensille> Loetmichel: as you know everything :) can you recommend a compressor?
[03:15:23] <Loetmichel> depends on what you want to do
[03:17:02] <sensille> blow things clean
[03:17:29] <sensille> so nothing fancy
[03:18:31] <Loetmichel> cheapest mobile one with integrated tank on Ebay. If you want to do "squeaky clean" get an air dryer for it
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[03:19:36] <sensille> "cheapest one" is a recommendation i like :)
[03:21:31] <Loetmichel> https://www.ebay.de something like this
[03:23:07] <Loetmichel> https://www.ebay.de <- add that if you need really "clean" air
[03:23:10] <sensille> fancy :) thanks
[03:41:28] <gloops> hmm, i wonder if one of those cheapo tyre inflators would be ok for that
[03:41:52] <gloops> probably not it takes an hour to blow a tyre up lol
[03:42:59] <Loetmichel> gloops: no tank
[03:43:04] <Loetmichel> so no, not ok
[03:44:53] <Loetmichel> sensille: if you are into self building things: get a "kühlschrankei", a fire extinguisher and that water seperator/regulator and mount them
[03:45:35] <Loetmichel> or just buy am airbush compressor with tank if you want "quiet" and dont need much air/long time high volume
[03:46:34] <sensille> "kühlschrankei"? no idea what that might be :)
[03:47:20] <gloops> ive got a big rand compressor but rarely used, its not worth messing if you just want a squirt of air
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[03:48:07] <Loetmichel> sensille: the compressor of a fridge
[03:48:12] <sensille> but you want a squirt of air from time to time?
[03:48:20] <pink_vampire> hi
[03:48:47] <gloops> sensille i do but i dont want to wait for a tank to fill, it also sounds like a V8 engine
[03:49:02] <gloops> hi pink_vampire ltns
[03:49:22] <pink_vampire> yeah, I know
[03:49:32] <Loetmichel> sensille: https://gastrotiger.de <- its formed like an egg, hence the nickname
[03:49:46] <gloops> a permanent air line to the spindle is good when cutting ally
[03:49:58] <sensille> gloops: yeah, quiet might be nice, but you probably pay for that
[03:50:01] <Loetmichel> and you get them cheap out of old fridges if you have access to a recycling center
[03:50:40] <gloops> they use the fridge/tyre inflators a lot in various hacks for de-gassing silicone, you can fill a tank slowly with them
[03:50:48] <Loetmichel> gloops: i once made an air compressor out of an 1,6 liter "golf gti" engine..
[03:51:15] <Loetmichel> not quite V8 sound, but it was FAST to fill the 200L air tank ;)
[03:51:32] <Loetmichel> (it had a 60kW three phase motor on it though)
[03:51:41] <gloops> might be a bit of overkill Loetmichel lol
[03:51:43] <sensille> gloops: air line to the spindle or to the endmill?
[03:52:02] <gloops> sensille well to the cutter yes, blow the chips out
[03:52:22] <sensille> i want to suck the chips in instead
[03:52:43] <sensille> blowing them around the room would be a mess
[03:52:50] <Loetmichel> gloops: blowing chips away is exactly what got me into that CNC mill predicament yesterday
[03:52:50] <gloops> vacuum is trickier than blowing
[03:53:08] <Loetmichel> coworker managed to blow the chips into the VFD and shorted it out
[03:53:09] <pink_vampire> I have the Kobalt compressor and it is inside mt home and the vacuum is much much more noisy then the compressor
[03:53:29] <gloops> its not about collecting the chips, but removed them from the cut, they need blasting out
[03:53:42] <pink_vampire> this one https://www.lowes.com
[03:53:49] <sensille> i see. so blast them into the vacuum :)
[03:54:07] <gloops> you can blast them towards the suction yes
[03:54:14] <gloops> chip clearance important
[03:54:20] <rmu> Loetmichel: if chips can get into a VFD they will
[03:54:24] <rmu> sooner or later
[03:54:29] <Loetmichel> rmu: took 6 years
[03:55:18] <Loetmichel> and yes, it WAS mounted a bit precarious... -> http://www.cyrom.org
[03:55:34] <Loetmichel> coworker had an impeccable aim though ;)
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[03:56:09] <sensille> gloops: and build some "enclosure" with something like this: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com
[03:56:21] <gloops> air blow kit for ally https://www.youtube.com
[03:56:53] <gloops> hmm you could have a chip collection shoe on
[03:57:45] <gloops> that one looks ok pink_vampire posted
[03:59:28] <rmu> Loetmichel: IME alu chips fly 2m and more if i remove the dust shoe
[03:59:36] <pink_vampire> someone know if linux cnc support 2 motors from each corner?
[03:59:44] <sensille> gloops: but mounted with Z independant of the spindle
[04:00:20] <pink_vampire> https://www.kickstarter.com
[04:00:38] <pink_vampire> something like that
[04:01:44] <rmu> pink_vampire: it is possible, you probably have to write your own kinematics
[04:02:02] <CaptHindsight> replace router with hungry beavers
[04:02:39] <CaptHindsight> or make it more organic...
[04:02:51] <gloops> with a 6040 id enclose the whole machine, miles better, quieter, mess contained, you could watch TV at the side of that while it was running
[04:02:51] <sensille> ok, i definitely need a dust shoe
[04:03:03] <CaptHindsight> replace router with termites
[04:03:23] <pink_vampire> rmu: is there a name to that type of kinematic?
[04:04:52] <rmu> pink_vampire: i know of a project where such a setup was used to spray walls, it had kind of automated spray can instead of router. there should be a hackaday article about it. don't remember name of kinematics
[04:04:59] <CaptHindsight> quadratic trapeze
[04:06:15] <CaptHindsight> what if you flip the plywood 90 deg and use a spring vs gravity?
[04:06:46] <CaptHindsight> or a third motor?
[04:07:11] <pink_vampire> i have very small space, and i want to make something simple just to cut few big parts out of wood
[04:07:43] <rmu> third motor would restrict you to smaller work envelope but (probably) would massively increase quality and speed of cuts
[04:08:31] <pink_vampire> after I finish i want to dissemble the machine, i want it as a temporary machine
[04:08:36] <pink_vampire> for only one job
[04:09:06] <rmu> it is some kind of "parallel" kinematics.
[04:09:11] <pink_vampire> I'm thinking to make it without the Z axis
[04:09:57] <rmu> i would not trust those chains staying on the sprockets and add a guard.
[04:10:08] <pink_vampire> so I will plunge the Z axis by hand and then run the machine to cut on the x and y
[04:11:57] <SpeedEvil> pink_vampire: i assume you're aware of the purchasable one with optical tracking of a 'handheld' platform which just requires you to keep +-3cm of the cut to keep the 'fine' alignement motors in scope?
[04:13:10] <gloops> if its only for one job it might be more efficient to cut the job by hand
[04:13:37] <gloops> make some templates and push the router round on a guide bush
[04:14:23] <pink_vampire> SpeedEvil: yes I know about it, I just want a ghetto style cnc that i can make here to cut some shapes out of wood and then reassemble the motor on my milling machine
[04:15:15] <CaptHindsight> print cutting templates with plotter, route by hand and eye
[04:16:07] <CaptHindsight> even easier to use a DLP projector to project the outline, trace with marker, then route
[04:16:10] <gloops> or buy a 1200mm throat fretsaw
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[04:18:00] <pink_vampire> CaptHindsight: it will be pointless because each part is individual and i need several parts
[04:19:29] <CaptHindsight> https://www.artsupplies.co.uk
[04:20:28] <pink_vampire> I dont want to do it by hand
[04:22:44] <CaptHindsight> https://youtu.be
[04:22:51] <SpeedEvil> that would be neat - a 'proper' high spec small high force and stiffness metal CNC, with a pantorouter to blow up the size for wood.
[04:23:23] <CaptHindsight> machine gun cutting wood
[04:23:49] <CaptHindsight> very uhmerican
[04:25:40] <CaptHindsight> wasn't there a poopstarter with a router bot that
[04:25:55] <CaptHindsight> rolled itself around while routing
[04:26:48] <CaptHindsight> https://youtu.be
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[04:27:00] <gloops> dont need a pantorouter when youve got a vertical surface (old ally sawbench top) https://www.youtube.com
[04:27:13] <CaptHindsight> https://www.goliathcnc.com
[04:27:25] <pink_vampire> maybe is a bipod kinematic?
[04:27:59] <pink_vampire> just upside down?
[04:27:59] <gloops> i can tenon, dovetail finger joint the end of anything, under 2 foot 6
[04:28:12] <gloops> which is ok unless you want a bed making in one piece
[04:29:53] <pink_vampire> CaptHindsight: you miss the point - I want to take the motors from the mill, build something temporary, cut some parts, and be done with it
[04:30:02] <gloops> i think the maslow people will have worked out the non trivial kins pink_vampire
[04:30:08] <gloops> for linuxcnc
[04:30:17] <gloops> it must be somewhere online
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[04:31:46] <gloops> well i better get something done, my mrs wants to see saleable products by the end of this week
[04:33:55] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com
[04:34:07] <CaptHindsight> Hexapod Robot CNC Router
[04:34:27] <pink_vampire> Published on Mar 31, 2008
[04:34:43] <CaptHindsight> http://www.hexapodrobot.com
[04:35:19] <CaptHindsight> modify a roomba
[04:35:30] <CaptHindsight> routes and cleans up after itself
[04:36:08] <pink_vampire> https://caelinux.com
[04:36:08] <CaptHindsight> https://watercolorbot.com
[04:36:46] <pink_vampire> CaptHindsight: normal XY based
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[05:10:12] <rmu> airbus phases out A380
[05:10:38] <rmu> last deliveries in '21
[05:12:51] <pink_vampire> https://www.youtube.com
[05:14:17] <jthornton> morning
[05:15:04] <pink_vampire> hi jthornton
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[05:43:20] <jthornton> hi pink_vampire
[05:44:46] <XXCoder> hey pink_vampire
[05:45:53] <pink_vampire> hi jthornton & XXCoder
[05:46:02] <XXCoder> hows things there pink
[05:46:39] <jthornton> XXCoder: snow gone yet?
[05:46:47] <pink_vampire> i want to make a disposable cnc machine
[05:46:57] <XXCoder> not yet slowly going away. had to drive carefully tho. black ice aloy
[05:47:12] <XXCoder> disposble cnc machine? as in use and throw away?
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[05:48:02] <pink_vampire> correct
[05:48:08] <XXCoder> looks like tomorrow will vbe 38f and light rain allll day
[05:48:22] <pink_vampire> something for only one job
[05:48:30] <XXCoder> like ghost gunner lol
[05:48:36] <pink_vampire> like that https://www.youtube.com
[05:49:14] <SpeedEvil> pink_vampire: I may have missed it - but what sort of accuracy are you hoping for?
[05:49:19] <XXCoder> interesting'
[05:49:33] <pink_vampire> +-1mm
[05:49:40] <SpeedEvil> ah - quite tight then
[05:49:50] <XXCoder> yeah large surface thats pretty tight tol
[05:50:19] <XXCoder> i would use more stronger method to move,. like steel ropes
[05:50:31] <pink_vampire> it is more art and curved cuts
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[06:10:26] * Loetmichel is doing the "danger mouse" again... sawing off 7075 alu with a wood sablade in a selfmade arbor made from an M8 screw... and the workpiece glued to the table with CA glue ;) -> http://www.cyrom.org
[06:10:58] <XXCoder> sliced mouse
[06:11:03] <Loetmichel> I just hope the 4mm Polycarbonate swarf guards can hold the impact... :-)
[06:12:24] <pink_vampire> rotate 90 deg and cut with endmill
[06:13:02] <gloops> just had problems booting cnc computer, took about 6 goes to boot up
[06:13:06] <gloops> *shock*
[06:13:48] <XXCoder> wonder whats up with that pc
[06:14:22] <gloops> ive been switching it off at the mains instead of shutting down, dont know if thats related, i darent shut it down now lol
[06:14:24] <rmu> Loetmichel: milling a heatsink?
[06:14:57] <XXCoder> some designs its better to use saw
[06:15:20] <XXCoder> expecially if its hard to do features that match each other
[06:16:08] <pink_vampire> XXCoder: it is high speed spindle, on low speed there is almost no torque
[06:17:33] <Loetmichel> no, need a pice thats only 15mm high on the mill ;)
[06:17:45] <Loetmichel> and faceing that off takes ages. its 25
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[06:22:38] <CNC_Brian> Guy's, trying to setup a new controller on VMware so I don't have to stand in a freezing shop.
[06:23:13] <fdarling> CNC_Brian: you mean run LinuxCNC inside of a VM?
[06:23:18] <pink_vampire> CNC_Brian: how?
[06:23:23] <CNC_Brian> Getting an error about trivkens not becoming master in 3 seconds
[06:23:27] <XXCoder> vm is not realtime
[06:23:37] <CNC_Brian> That was my question
[06:23:55] <CNC_Brian> Is it because Im on VM trivkens will not play ball
[06:23:59] <fdarling> I am trying to do the same thing... I want to test an optoisolator board I created at home on my non-realtime computer, I wanted to know if there was a way of relaxing the realtime restrictions for the purposes of testing basic I/O
[06:24:04] <CNC_Brian> I do have an rt kernal
[06:24:32] <XXCoder> even so vm simply cant act as realtime
[06:24:43] <XXCoder> second inside vm may well be 3 seconds real time
[06:25:08] <CNC_Brian> I wouldn't try to run a live machine Im just writing the config
[06:25:28] <XXCoder> theres way to just install linuxcnc on your pc
[06:25:37] <XXCoder> i have linuxcnc on my pc and its not realtime
[06:26:02] <CNC_Brian> Think that's what I need to know
[06:26:40] <XXCoder> i used a workaround to get repo installed and get it to install
[06:26:51] <XXCoder> but its not a nice workaround dunno if theres better
[06:27:47] <CNC_Brian> Actually it says something about Note: Using POSIX Realtime after it spits the dummy
[06:28:14] <XXCoder> have to use sim version if not using realtime
[06:28:24] <XXCoder> but not sure if you can configure and run real machine
[06:28:31] <CNC_Brian> Cool will give that a go. Thanks all!!
[06:34:56] <jthornton> you could install linux and have a dual boot
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[06:37:47] <Tom_L> morning
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[06:40:07] <CNC_Brian> OK that worked to a point
[06:40:48] <CNC_Brian> I can now get passed where it was failing but steppen is having kittens because we are using a none realtime.
[06:44:43] <Loetmichel> sensille: btw: that saw taxed the spindle to the max... full 800W draw. the "new" FU can display the drawn current :-)
[06:45:03] <Loetmichel> took 0,5mm deep cuts at 8krpm
[06:45:10] <XXCoder> so your vdf is working fine again?
[06:45:11] <Tom_L> chinaco amps
[06:45:37] <Loetmichel> XXCoder: took the one of the new machine until the parts arrive to fix the old one
[06:45:45] <XXCoder> ahh ok
[06:45:54] <XXCoder> thought you had stockpile of some parts
[06:46:02] <Loetmichel> i have
[06:46:23] <Loetmichel> but no 15N120 igbts ;)
[06:47:21] <Tom_L> got my thread mill macro working last night
[06:47:39] <XXCoder> awesome :)
[06:47:50] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81
[06:47:53] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81
[06:48:06] <Tom_L> probably not useful for anyone else
[06:48:53] <Tom_L> horizontal lines are maj min D for a couple threads i was testing
[06:49:16] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81
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[07:38:40] <gloops> these mitre clamps that arent square are great
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[09:03:04] <Jymmm> skunkworks: lol
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[09:22:05] <sensille> Loetmichel: apropos watts: with 3A the steppers get warm to the touch, but not hot
[09:22:16] <sensille> let's say <40C
[09:25:43] <gloops> probably now low current setting for idle with those drivers, i think mine motors are on the max amps, they get quite hot but never any trouble, they sound a lot better with full power
[09:25:58] <gloops> but the drivers drop to half current when the motor isnt turning
[09:30:18] <Jymmm> Um, what does this photo have to do with air hose? lol https://images.homedepot-static.com
[09:31:00] <gloops> looks like he does a lot of work in there
[09:31:28] <Jymmm> Not to me, looks WAY TOO CLEAN
[09:31:35] <gloops> lol, or she
[09:42:19] <Loetmichel> sensille: steppers can have ~80°C before getting damaged. you still have some "headroom" for more current then ;)
[09:42:44] <sensille> also i have a box of cpu heat sinks
[09:43:11] <Loetmichel> gloops: the TB6560 dont autodrop. they have however a "sleep" input
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[09:57:02] <gregcnc> https://bgr.com
[10:00:23] <Jymmm> Gawd, ppl need to pull the stick out of their ass
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[12:21:33] <fragalot> 'sup
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[12:40:29] <gloops> evening
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[13:37:55] <Jymmm> I'm going to try to replace more parts now that the rain paused. If I get that done, is there anything I can test before applying power? I only have one spare 50A fuse =(
[13:38:26] <fragalot> measure resistance, check for shorts, measure isolation if you have an isolation tester, ... ?
[13:43:50] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: you can use wire as fuse. If you pick a wire diameter with a 10A fusing say
[13:44:12] <SpeedEvil> (NOT a 10A rated wire)
[13:44:24] <fragalot> single strand of fine copper wire from a fexible cable is approximately 5A
[13:44:34] <Loetmichel> fragalot: 4A
[13:44:38] <fragalot> (ill advised, but..)
[13:44:39] <SpeedEvil> Something like that
[13:44:42] <fragalot> Loetmichel: depends on the wire, but yes :D
[13:44:47] <Loetmichel> and "super slow blwo"
[13:44:52] <Loetmichel> blow
[13:44:59] <SpeedEvil> Will blow pretty fast at 50A
[13:45:05] <fragalot> lol
[13:45:14] <Loetmichel> at least if you take a standard 1,5mm^2 stranded wire
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[13:45:40] <CaptHindsight> no lets argue over how many amps an unknown strand of copper wire can carry
[13:45:49] <CaptHindsight> thats productive
[13:45:55] <fragalot> CaptHindsight: ok fine. 5A!
[13:46:05] <fragalot> unless if its cold out
[13:46:48] <CaptHindsight> how many amps for a hot dog?
[13:47:04] <fragalot> before or after its cooked?
[13:47:06] * Loetmichel has seen plenty of devices with soldered or simply wound around strands like you descripe on 5*20 or 6,35*35 glass tube fueses
[13:47:09] <fragalot> and was the water salted?
[13:47:18] <CaptHindsight> yes
[13:47:33] <fragalot> in that case, about green.
[13:48:10] <fragalot> Loetmichel: even commercial devices from the usual suspects sometimes have a wire bridge as a fuse.. :/
[13:48:33] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: how mnay small jumper cables with alligator clips can you spare?
[13:49:03] <Loetmichel> fragalot_ you mean like this one where all the filtering is missing? -> http://www.cyrom.org
[13:49:28] <Loetmichel> (at least it has a (soldered in) fuse
[13:49:29] <fragalot> Loetmichel: like that, but sans the glass fuse
[13:49:32] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: do you have access to a dungeon with a rack, asking for a friend
[13:50:10] <Loetmichel> fragalot: the best thing is the "pfc" thats just a wire jumper
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[13:50:27] <Loetmichel> (behind the two blue varistors)
[13:50:34] <fragalot> Loetmichel: carefully calibrated jumper
[13:51:06] <Loetmichel> ... and they sold that as "CE" and "80+ Gold"
[13:51:10] <Loetmichel> i doubt it ;)
[13:51:31] <fragalot> as long as nobody complaints & starts up a lawsuit, CE means nothing
[13:52:12] <Loetmichel> it means "complies to all regulations relevant" and is as you rightfully stated a self-cert
[13:52:23] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: you could disconnect the heaters and substitute a low watt light bulb as a load
[13:52:45] <Loetmichel> but if it hasnt any PFC at >50(?)W its not EU-importable
[13:53:01] <SpeedEvil> 30, from memory
[13:53:05] <SpeedEvil> It's been a while though
[13:53:10] <fragalot> Loetmichel: big difference betweeen isn't and shouldn't.
[13:53:13] <Loetmichel> somewhere in that range
[13:53:40] <Loetmichel> fragalot: sure.
[13:55:02] <fragalot> my kaiser automatic boring head arrived today
[13:55:03] * SpeedEvil is pondering ordering 5kW of battery charger PSUs from china that _certainly_ won't qualify
[13:55:06] <CaptHindsight> the real problem is that it is 45F right now but going back down to 5F tonight
[13:55:08] <fragalot> import duties were less than i'd expected
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[14:05:03] <gloops> youll have to show us it in action sometime fragalot, it looked a classy bit of gear
[14:05:39] <fragalot> agreed. I'll try to get it to run tomorrow or sunday
[14:05:48] <fragalot> it certainly feels smooth
[14:06:05] <fragalot> and the boring bars just slide in ever so snugly
[14:07:06] <HighInBC> hot
[14:07:22] <fragalot> :P
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[14:11:53] <FinboySlick> fragalot: Kaiser boring head for mister fancy-pants eh?
[14:13:50] <fragalot> FinboySlick: Indeed.
[14:16:21] <fragalot> FinboySlick: https://i.ebayimg.com
[14:16:40] <fragalot> https://i.ebayimg.com
[14:17:17] <FinboySlick> All the fancy.
[14:17:22] <fragalot> if it wasn't for the chewed up screws, i'd have believed the seller if they said it was new old stock
[14:18:12] <FinboySlick> Wouldn't that look nice on a schaublin...
[14:19:24] <fragalot> now to figure out a part that needs both a facing head, and a X-axis referenced spiral capable dividing head
[14:19:36] <CaptHindsight> fragalot: I needed one a few years ago for a ~120mm dia bore but 250mm deep
[14:20:03] <fragalot> CaptHindsight: sounds expensive
[14:22:08] <CaptHindsight> ended up honing it for 8 hrs, only had to take .05mm off
[14:22:14] <fragalot> xD
[14:22:51] <fragalot> at that point you'd think its worth considering grinding it in on a rotary table
[14:23:00] <fragalot> with a dremel mounted in your spindle
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[14:24:10] <CaptHindsight> was surprised that the speed shops couldn't just bore cylinder sleeves
[14:24:25] <CaptHindsight> they have to be in a block
[14:24:39] <fragalot> probably can't mount them
[14:24:46] <CaptHindsight> yeah
[14:25:00] <CaptHindsight> could have made a fixture for them
[14:28:11] <FinboySlick> Makes me wonder if it would be possible with today's tech to smooth bore an engine piston so well that it would act as an air bearing and require no seals. I guess you'd need ceramic sleeves with pretty predicable expansion properties.
[14:28:31] <fragalot> problem is differential heat expansion
[14:30:11] <CaptHindsight> FinboySlick: the honing did that, but my app the stroke speed was mm per hour
[14:32:13] <FinboySlick> fragalot: You mean between piston and cylinder?
[14:32:23] <fragalot> FinboySlick: yes
[14:32:44] <CaptHindsight> https://www.enginelabs.com
[14:33:09] <fragalot> plus the hone marks act as an oil trap for lubrication
[14:33:28] <fragalot> i'm not sure if the "air bearing" technique would work without forcing air in between the walls
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[14:34:35] <CaptHindsight> https://www.techbriefs.com
[14:34:51] <CaptHindsight> https://patents.google.com
[14:35:32] <CaptHindsight> https://www.carsales.com.au
[14:36:08] <gloops> https://www.ebay.co.uk nema17s or nema23s?
[14:36:40] <Jymmm> I got one relay almost replaced. It's wired, but just hanging there now, as the rain started, than asfter I pickerd up and closed everything the rain stopped (for the moment)
[14:36:49] <fragalot> CaptHindsight: so.. the tesla "no moving parts" one-way check valve?
[14:37:18] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: That aussie one reminded me of the Napier Deltic.
[14:37:23] <CaptHindsight> https://patents.google.com
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[14:37:48] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: You ever seen it? Triangular opposite piston engine.
[14:37:55] <FinboySlick> Completely bonkers.
[14:38:04] <andypugh> Napier deltic?
[14:38:16] <FinboySlick> yeah, andy would know.
[14:38:17] <CaptHindsight> not sure, there are some odd designs out there
[14:38:30] <FinboySlick> Hehe, figure it would perk up the brit ;)
[14:38:49] <andypugh> I am a bit of a fan of Napier engines.
[14:38:51] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com
[14:39:23] <CaptHindsight> 3 cranks
[14:39:26] <andypugh> The Napier Nomad is fun. Diesel aero engine, opposed piston. With an afterburner....
[14:39:57] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Stollen from the luftwaffe!
[14:40:01] <CaptHindsight> 3 compressors
[14:40:24] <andypugh> FinboySlick: Not really, very little in common with the Jumo
[14:40:36] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Just taunting you.
[14:40:47] <andypugh> How about the Rootes / Commer TS3?
[14:40:48] <FinboySlick> (and hoping Loetmichel would bite too)
[14:40:48] <andypugh> https://www.youtube.com
[14:41:40] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com
[14:41:41] <andypugh> Somebody made a TS3 with ecentrics for the rocker pivots, to give variable compression ratio.
[14:43:11] <FinboySlick> Supercharger required for proper intake/exhaust?
[14:43:18] <andypugh> Yes.
[14:43:36] <CaptHindsight> http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net
[14:43:39] <andypugh> Pretty sure that model is wrong, I think that the pistons are not in exact antiphase.
[14:46:11] <Tom_L> CaptHindsight tapered fit?
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[14:49:21] <andypugh> Those TS3 engines sound a bit special… https://www.youtube.com
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[14:53:19] <FinboySlick> Oh wow, those were actually built.
[14:54:20] <FinboySlick> Makes one wonder how efficient they could be if we'd have put effort as we had in conventional engines into them.
[14:57:16] <andypugh> Well, uniflow 2-stroke diesels _have_ been further developed, to make the most efficient engines in the world: https://en.wikipedia.orgärtsilä-Sulzer_RTA96-C
[14:57:55] <sync> yeah, not in an automotive variant tho
[14:58:23] <andypugh> A 25,000 litre 100,000hp engine might be a bit much in a car :-)
[14:58:38] <fragalot> its fine
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[15:14:08] <Loetmichel> andypugh: especially considering the size... wouldnt fit the streets ;)
[15:15:55] <fragalot> Loetmichel: just go vertical & avoid bridges
[15:18:07] <SpeedEvil> andypugh: 20% better than turbodiesels in cars - neat.
[15:27:24] <fragalot> CaptHindsight: ever looked at fabrisonic?
[15:41:08] <FinboySlick> mention the Napier, out comes the brit. Mention Wartzsila, out comes the german.
[15:41:13] <andypugh> Hmm, how to calibrate a Faro arm? I think I need to find a way to hold the joints at specific angles.
[15:41:27] * FinboySlick amused.
[15:42:32] <andypugh> But Wartsila are Finnish and Sulzer are Swiss?
[15:43:27] <FinboySlick> Darn... My stereotypes all broken.
[15:44:27] <FinboySlick> andypugh: My initial thought on the Faro is that if you probe a known-sized object in a few different spots, the computer should figure out the rest.
[15:46:08] <FinboySlick> eg, this 123 block here is 1"x2"x3" in this spot, and it's also 1"x2"x3" in this spot.
[15:46:21] <andypugh> In theory this should be possible, agreed. Put the point at a location and wave the joints about to get a lot of simultaneous equations. Then the system should be able to figure out the mapping between voltage and joint angle, and then derive the Denavit-Hartenberg parameters too.
[15:46:31] <andypugh> In practice that sounds hard.
[15:47:17] <FinboySlick> nah, they'll use agile to develop a cloud-based neural network of ai running node.js and it'll all be magic.
[15:47:44] <andypugh> Yes, well, in the interim….
[15:47:59] <FinboySlick> You're the one stuck with the problem, right?
[15:48:06] <andypugh> Yes.
[15:48:43] <andypugh> I think I need a Faro arm to measure my Faro arm joint lengths etc :-)
[15:49:16] <jthornton> lol
[15:49:45] * jthornton finally sorted out why the coop software would not run as a service with systemd :)
[15:49:45] <FinboySlick> Does it have limits on all joints?
[15:50:00] <andypugh> The joints are ptentiomters.
[15:50:27] <FinboySlick> I mean, none of them can do more than 360 degrees?
[15:50:29] <andypugh> So it’s absolute, but difficult to work out the references.
[15:50:49] <andypugh> Indeed, all move about 270 degrees
[15:51:06] <FinboySlick> How linear is the potentiometer?
[15:51:44] <andypugh> I have no way to tell. See my first question.
[15:52:37] <fragalot> break out the box of string & pythagoras that thing
[15:53:20] <FinboySlick> The only sane reference positions are the rotation axis.
[15:59:03] <andypugh> Now there’s a thought....
[15:59:49] <andypugh> I have a bunch of servos. I can use a servo motor + encoder as an angle transducer
[16:00:42] <andypugh> Then I just need a straight-edge to get one zero-degree reference angle.
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[16:31:54] <togo> what is the best stepper driver hardware supported by LinuxCNC these days?
[16:34:44] <jthornton> Mesa 7i96, 7i76E, 5i25/7i76, 6i25/7i76, 7i92/7i76
[16:37:36] <togo> Are those open source?
[16:39:32] <togo> or closed loop / trinamic?
[16:45:35] <jthornton> not sure I understand the question but they are open loop stepper driver cards that work with LinuxCNC
[16:50:29] <andypugh> togo: Or do you mean the actual stepper power stage?
[16:51:42] <togo> well I would need the complete path between the controlling computer and the steppers
[16:52:10] <andypugh> And which parts do you currently have?
[16:52:38] <andypugh> “Best driver” depends on the size of the steppers, to an extent.
[16:52:45] <togo> I say open source mainly because of economy and availability of circuit diagrams to repair things if something goes wrong...
[16:53:02] <andypugh> But if you don’t alreadyhave the steppers then the Leadshine closed-loop sets look like a good idea
[16:53:24] <togo> True thaose are nema 23 steppers 3A max
[16:54:50] <togo> but I would be willing to not top out the current if for example trinamic drivers could 'close the loop' for me
[16:54:59] <andypugh> 3A you might as well just buy generic TB6600 from eBay and accept that they are cheap enough not to bother repairing.
[16:55:00] <andypugh> https://www.ebay.co.uk
[16:55:01] <andypugh> EXVd9WsRKXgD%2FNB%2FB7rB2OaYhJYS02coXkWV%2FswTZMYBnpdpOm4RQDUx%2FbUeQBXK%2BiK8P5o9KeLwFclis6CKgpkfFNGR78ZLo6VMX4z6eoMDOwdXh9W5wEAteOZlFxgvjt01RV00%2B9vBf4JFT4zKeZ4B%2FXYu1iy%2FQZKpRjllKB7ypU9hQnsePSyD2ommqHys%2BXo29cKKmP8PjWnSgKuGuJLZ0AOlEhxX5sAjlArxLoWdez1w6o8moBMqyZXdW4RI5Mdscu9C2YbsgfftA9H6CYbmf1YPOvqFWxyyAhL1%2FCqX7ulTDQhtVdrH0Uq79CtL4OgONWN4lngpS0kvQE0z2DPFEKL5Lo5Rfweipmg8JZNgq8eMM6%2BSnPXWYg0uPbd80CT5zhFMPux%2
[16:55:02] <andypugh> YH8D62%2BNhSHoBr2fU7jYz%2FSMQ9%2B22qqPD9eXgFwQ6mRjoIx%2BVkZzdtE8ko%2BC%2BLAikvdpD4ND1jKweVvzl%2FbQh%2B8iiuhmAQ9%2BrycEKtwoQ7kRqe3etmYtfRtTXmiq5RLZX1XlWLsDvqc3l2SsnRsQpFmxal69%2Ffxl0oYe%2BmCzkYLklNU0UCgNbYeHTQ25U5YQ7xd90YwQKerMLQqrZwwqUYmdlviyagbOQG7KRHEUpF9hZOud3McdmYtjsdJ%2BxnM%2BGSi0Dij31GLwApvhxcjagFDYmpGT6DyxfobuCpC6oz%2B%2FSemM186wtBzdNa2jfQAkxDSCqRrVFIOxrekD5oxROfNzOzFA5uES%2BTsWzNXRCWK0FAFXpYBpKog5hnitl%2B804
[16:55:03] <andypugh> VfaRhAxKcVYyX%2BjoZp%2BMlZnv4NNd
[16:55:04] <andypugh> Eeek!
[16:55:21] <XXCoder> LINK BOMB!
[16:55:46] <andypugh> I meant: https://www.ebay.co.uk
[16:56:17] <andypugh> (And, err, how is that even _possible_? )
[16:56:26] <XXCoder> andy still shorter than one time I acciently pasted entire wiki page in irc channel. I had to close client since it was still spamming
[16:56:40] <andypugh> £5.99 including postage? I can’t post a postage stamp to China for that.
[16:57:05] <XXCoder> TO china is the key. out of key they have special treaty for cheap shipping.
[16:57:15] <XXCoder> *out of china
[16:57:28] <togo> Amazing that is quite affordable!
[16:57:47] <XXCoder> tb6600 is pretty good, in least far better than tb6560s I had
[16:58:20] <andypugh> togo: Search for TB6600. There are some for a very little more that look a bit better.
[16:59:25] <togo> ok, I#ll check it out, and what goes in between the computer and those?
[17:00:30] <XXCoder> BOB is your uncle
[17:00:36] <XXCoder> breakout board :)
[17:00:57] <gloops> you can get 3 tb6600s for about £20 on ebay
[17:01:04] <XXCoder> look for cnc breakout board usually pretty cheap also
[17:01:30] <XXCoder> so basically pc -> BOB -> tb6600s -> machine
[17:02:24] <andypugh> togo: Depending on how many axes you need and whether your PC has a parallel port you could either use a parallel port or something better. Or maybe something worse, but that’s a small category :-)
[17:03:24] <togo> exactly I remember last time I investigated LinuxCNC prefered parallel port...
[17:03:38] <gloops> https://www.ebay.co.uk thats the standard issue bob with relay and pwm, pretty yesteryear stuff now but they work
[17:04:07] <andypugh> Nooooo! LinuxCNC _hates_ the parallel port and uses it under duress!
[17:04:41] <togo> but it hates USB even more, right?
[17:05:23] <andypugh> Well, yes.
[17:05:44] <togo> So people use pci cards?
[17:05:45] <andypugh> But PCI and Ethernet are both well supported. And even ISA
[17:06:03] <togo> Ethernet is good?
[17:06:34] <togo> I like that because even old laptops have that...
[17:07:45] <andypugh> Yes, though it is not as cheap as parport: http://store.mesanet.com
[17:08:59] <andypugh> And you need to use this LinuxCNC ISO image to use ethernet: http://www.linuxcnc.org
[17:10:32] <togo> what is the minimum system requirement ?
[17:11:00] <togo> MB RAM for example
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[17:12:56] <andypugh> 1GB
[17:14:00] <andypugh> I run my machines from an 8GB SATA DOM for the HD and 2GB of RAM. But more doesn’t hurt, especially if you might be doing CAD / CAM on the same machine.
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[17:15:55] <togo> Thanks I think I would not, just transfer gcode and cut
[17:16:04] <togo> And none of you use any trinamic drivers?
[17:17:05] <togo> Of cource they might be more expensive, and I have no idea if they have anything above 1.x Amps
[17:18:03] <togo> but relatively silent and possible 'closed loop' could be convincing
[17:19:20] <gloops> what machine are you building togo?
[17:19:44] <togo> I am going to convert an aluminum door frame
[17:20:04] <gloops> this sounds interesting
[17:20:23] <togo> So far I have those Nema 23 steppers and a 400W air cooled spindle, and also a 5W laser
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[17:21:31] <andypugh> My advice would be to spend as little as possible on your first build and make your mistakes cheaply.
[17:21:40] <togo> Initially I may have to 3d print most parts
[17:21:51] <togo> good point!
[17:22:09] <andypugh> You might well find that an aluminium door frame is a terrible basis for a CNC :-)
[17:22:14] <gloops> yeah probably parport bob/drivers setup would work fine for that type of machine
[17:22:25] <togo> I could even just use a smoothyboard and no linuxcnc - what would I be missing out on?
[17:23:04] <andypugh> I started that way. Then on my latest build I spent more on Mesa cards than on the first machine, including buying the lathe/mill brand new!
[17:23:04] <togo> andypugh: whay would you say that?
[17:23:50] <andypugh> If you use a Smoothieboard you miss out on LinuxCNC. Surely that is enough to dissuade you?
[17:24:02] <togo> The door frame has avery good formfactor and stability
[17:24:20] <gloops> with 400w spindle and 5w laser you arent looking to push any speed barriers
[17:24:31] <Deejay> gn8
[17:24:53] <andypugh> Now, does this look like a bargain? https://www.ebay.co.uk
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[17:25:06] <togo> I wonder why you never went to submit those Open source firmware controllers to LinuxCNC _slavery_
[17:25:13] <andypugh> Or should I be put off by the “cake pans” description?
[17:25:49] <gloops> after trying to clamp up some frames with chinese mitre clamps today, yes it looks an absolute bargain andypugh
[17:26:27] <andypugh> togo: Because things like Smoothieboard do _exactly_ the same job as LinuxCNC. LinuxCNC + Smoothieboard / GRBL is a pointlessly redundant system
[17:26:47] <gloops> Squareness is .0001"
[17:26:49] <andypugh> gloops: Sarcasm?
[17:27:16] <gloops> andypugh no it looks square - my clamps arent lol
[17:27:55] <andypugh> Mach3 + Smoothstepper is a pointlessly redundant system too, but Mach3 make money by supporting the configuration, so it is supported.
[17:28:12] <togo> ok, true, so LinuxCNC does nothing more than the Arduino/Arm/Ramps etc
[17:28:44] <andypugh> No, though it might well do it better, and definitely more flexibly.
[17:28:53] <togo> I figure squareness would be adjustable?
[17:30:13] <andypugh> Or fixable in software
[17:30:47] <andypugh> (There is a config somewhere for LinuxCNC and an out-of-square machine)
[17:31:33] <andypugh> <closes eBay having bought 4 123 blocks, 2 waterproof calipers and a granite square>
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[17:40:53] <rmu> wtf are waterproof calipers???
[17:41:12] <andypugh> Digital calipers that continue to work when you splash coolant on them
[17:41:35] <rmu> aaah ok digital
[17:42:02] <andypugh> Yes, I am not American so have never seen a dial caliper :-)
[17:42:46] <Tom_L> my first pair was dial
[17:42:59] <Tom_L> i gave them to a friend after i got a digital pair
[17:43:00] <rmu> me neither. i am used to vernier calipers.
[17:43:23] <andypugh> You can do a lot more with digital.
[17:44:38] <rmu> the chinesium digital are a waste of money time and brain
[17:45:00] <andypugh> As an example, to make a 20mm part on an Imperial lathe. Set the caliper to 20mm. Zero it, switch to imperial. Now when you measure the work it tells you directly how many thou to take off.
[17:45:04] <Tom_L> https://www.amazon.com
[17:45:16] <Tom_L> i was given one of those and like it alot
[17:45:47] <Tom_L> still in the shrink wrapper
[17:46:13] <andypugh> Yes, I have those in 0-25 and 25-50
[17:46:41] <Tom_L> i've got an older pair 0-1 and 1-2
[17:47:04] <Tom_L> non digital
[17:48:16] <Tom_L> what projects are you up to lately?
[17:49:12] <andypugh> I was skiing last week, and next week, so this week I haven’t been able to settle. So mainly TV and fiddling with small LinuxCNC bugs.
[17:49:38] <andypugh> Still have the Holbrook Lathe fixed steadies to finish.
[17:51:28] <Tom_L> you must be on a first name basis at the foundry
[17:51:40] <andypugh> err, yes.
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[18:32:23] <Jymmm> AND WE HAVE HEAT!!!!!!
[18:32:34] <Jymmm> Thank you all very much for your help!!!!!!
[18:32:57] <Tom_L> yay
[18:34:31] <Jymmm> When the PTC blew, it actually arced thru the other side of the sheet metal and made a relay toasty as well, replaced it just because I coould
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[19:05:41] <jthornton> yippie
[19:09:07] <Jymmm> jthornton: thank you =)
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[19:13:00] <jthornton> yw
[19:13:09] <jthornton> that looks so much like vw lol
[19:13:40] * jthornton wanders up to the living room
[19:13:59] <Jymmm> haha
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[19:35:47] <gloops> how many HDs are there on here?
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[20:26:27] <Tom_L> HDs?
[20:28:25] <gloops> seems to be the designated ID some computers give out
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[20:57:16] <Connor> Anyone know anything about adding coolant to a surface grinder? Oh.. and it has a electromagnetic chuck...
[22:01:13] <CaptHindsight> not unless you are wet grinding
[22:30:58] <Elmo40> Connor, no problem
[22:31:17] <Elmo40> it is very beneficial for coolant in grinding
[22:31:34] <Elmo40> the material burns if you dont (depending on cut dept, of course)
[22:31:57] <Elmo40> plus, helps wash away the material from the stone.
[22:36:21] <Connor> Yea. It's a older unit.. doesn't look like it ever had coolant.. and I wasn't sure if would be issues with the chuck since it's powered.
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[22:38:07] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com
[22:38:25] <Elmo40> with that one you will get a spray everywhere...
[22:38:54] <Wolf__> might want to make a wheel guard
[22:39:11] <Connor> I'll have to make a enclosure.. He has the wheel guard too.. just not mounted.
[22:39:22] <Wolf__> fun part is figuring out the drain off the table
[22:41:50] <Connor> How are they normally done? and is equipping one that's not coolant ready a silly idea?
[22:42:10] <Connor> I don't know much about surface grinders..
[22:42:49] <Wolf__> mine has a slot/hole with a flange, haven’t figured out how I
[22:43:04] <Wolf__> I’m going to do the coolant recovery yet
[22:47:56] <Connor> It has some pretty bad backlash on the Y axis. Around .131" or so.
[22:48:03] <Connor> Not sure how big a deal that is.
[22:48:24] <Jymmm> Wolf__: HAVE HEAT =) Thank you for the help
[22:48:52] <Wolf__> heat is good
[22:49:20] <Wolf__> y axis backlash shouldn’t be a issue on a surface grinder
[22:51:05] <Connor> Damn. You can add DRO's to them too.
[22:52:03] <Wolf__> yup, for z height and Y step over and doing stuff up to a shoulder
[22:52:29] <Wolf__> cnc isnt a bad idea either lol
[22:52:39] <Connor> I would hate to try to dial in the Z.. co-sine error... :)
[22:53:05] <Connor> getting the scale perfect would be way hard.. not as critical on a mill.
[22:54:24] <Wolf__> not really, just run z up and down till the DTI says 0 runout with the axis
[22:57:25] <Connor> Dang it.. the ones I use on my mill is only good for Resolution: 0.0002", repeatability: 0.0002"
[22:57:53] <Wolf__> 5 um
[23:01:41] <Connor> Looks like you can get 1um glass scales else where..
[23:02:05] <Wolf__> I have some of those as well on my lathe
[23:02:44] <Connor> I have to say though.. I swear the mill can do .0001"
[23:03:19] <Connor> But maybe that's just the readout and it can be off a bit.
[23:06:24] <Wolf__> most things you can probably get to move .0001” by holding it lol
[23:08:51] <Wolf__> only reason I put 1um on my lathe is for the cross slide
[23:09:32] <Wolf__> 5um on my mill because in reality even that much resolution is a waste
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