#linuxcnc | Logs for 2019-02-20

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[01:34:30] <gloops> record february temps forecast for the weekend 19C
[01:34:39] <gloops> previous was 16C
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[03:08:15] <Deejay> moin
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[03:27:33] <Loetmichel> mornin'. *HRRRMPF* Note to self: If you use Dsub9 plugs for Linit switches on your CNC machine: TIGHTEN THOSE DAMN SCREWS!... Took me 1 hour just not to find the reason the §"$)(%() machine didnt want to home properly... :-(
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[03:34:58] <sensille> Loetmichel: you're really having fun atm
[03:36:43] <Loetmichel> its morning. let me get my first coffee and it gets better
[03:37:01] <sensille> like every morning?
[03:37:22] <Loetmichel> yes
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[04:57:02] <jthornton> morning
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[05:16:04] <XXCoder> heys
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[05:31:41] <jthornton> snow came within 60 miles of us
[05:32:23] <XXCoder> saturaday ponentally sleet lol besides that rain or sunny
[05:32:42] <XXCoder> missed drat lol I should aim snow better ;)
[05:40:52] <Loetmichel> hmpf... and another mill bit gone... *replace* *start machine again*... uuups, only one left... *orders another 20* .-)
[05:41:08] <XXCoder> fun
[05:43:32] <XXCoder> once had last tool break on very hot job
[05:43:42] <XXCoder> they rushed more tools in and arrived next day.
[05:43:57] <XXCoder> somehow inverory missed that tool was about to run out
[05:44:10] * Loetmichel made D-bits with a dremel and a diamond disk myself a few times because of that ;)
[05:44:24] <Loetmichel> so now i am seeing to it that i always have bits in spare
[05:44:37] <XXCoder> I'm pretty dang sure it was very expensve. apparently tool company drove it in themselves
[05:44:54] <Loetmichel> ... if all fails there is a 10 pack 2mm alu mill bits in my jacket. from my home mill
[05:45:36] <Loetmichel> "just in case"
[05:46:27] <Loetmichel> generates funny looks tho when the police checks you out though.. "whats with all those tools and Thumbdrives in your pockets?"
[05:46:40] <Loetmichel> -tho
[05:47:55] <XXCoder> "oh just tools and files for my ghost gunner machine"
[05:47:57] <XXCoder> ;)
[05:48:14] <rmu> Loetmichel: how often do you get "checked out" by police in germany?
[05:48:31] <Loetmichel> rmu: not that often
[05:48:39] <Loetmichel> last time was about a decade ago
[05:49:46] <Loetmichel> rmu: are you from america?
[05:49:49] <rmu> i'm pretty sure police can't jsut search you
[05:49:50] <XXCoder> ghost gunner would be very illegal at your place lol
[05:49:59] <rmu> Loetmichel: austria
[05:50:20] <Loetmichel> they cant, but they can ask nicely to show them your pocket contents
[05:50:59] <Loetmichel> and i saw no reason to object, knowing i have nothing illegal in there
[05:51:38] <Loetmichel> i just asked because us citizens have a different "average experience" with cops than germans ;)
[05:51:51] <Loetmichel> austria is similar to germany in that aspect i belive
[05:52:27] <rmu> i had my fair share of awkward police interactions
[05:53:35] <Loetmichel> rmu: awkward: yes. potentially deadly: no ,)
[05:54:23] <Loetmichel> german cops (and i think austrian, too) are a lot less "trigger happy" on average than US american ones
[05:54:24] <rmu> no, this is civilized country
[05:55:23] <XXCoder> most of usa cops is fine
[05:55:47] <XXCoder> some regions, expecially southeast, there is some problem with police culture
[05:57:53] <rmu> southeast is florida?
[05:58:08] <XXCoder> im talking about general region
[05:58:18] <XXCoder> southeast region of usa
[06:03:09] <Loetmichel> XXCoder: i had a police unit do a house search warrant once at my home (ordered some chemicals at the wrong vendor that got busted, so they searched all his customers). Even those were very polite and "non-violent"... a bit clueless though, could have had all kinds of things at home they wouldnt have found it.
[06:03:30] <Loetmichel> :-)
[06:03:52] <XXCoder> 2 police body searches and one house search thats 3 more times than I have experenced
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[06:04:43] <rmu> Loetmichel: they were probably checking if you were running a drug lab, and i think your typical small-scale meth lab won't be hidden very well
[06:05:14] <Loetmichel> rmu: nope, they were searching for explosives
[06:05:45] <Loetmichel> that vendot get busted for selling KNO and stuff to terrorists.
[06:05:50] <Loetmichel> vendor
[06:07:07] <rmu> hehe... i (or rather, my 386SX "laptop", ca. 1992) once got introduced to an explosives sniffing device at munich airport. car-sized apparatus. probably some kind of GC-MS. that was fun.
[06:07:27] <rmu> terrorists using KNO?
[06:07:38] <rmu> KNO3
[06:08:08] <rmu> to do what? make their own blackpowder?
[06:13:05] <Loetmichel> something like that
[06:15:25] <Loetmichel> there was a big uproar in the german media back then that those 1000s of search warrants were "unwarranted" just by being a customer of a chemicals vendor.
[06:15:43] <XXCoder> wht did company do to be caught
[06:16:35] <Loetmichel> nothing wrong other than selling stuff that could be used to make explosives to customers without a background check (that WASNT mandatory back then)
[06:17:05] <Loetmichel> and the attorney general ordered their whole customer database to be searched
[06:17:14] <Loetmichel> that was the point about the uproar
[06:18:00] <Loetmichel> also there were stories about police seizing sugar in "non standard containers"
[06:18:15] <Loetmichel> and such things
[06:18:55] <Loetmichel> "my" police were very understanding though. Quote" we know its silly but we have the order to search... "
[06:20:24] <Tom_L> morning
[06:20:33] <jthornton> morning
[06:20:38] <jthornton> you get much snow?
[06:21:14] * Loetmichel doesnt. +16°C outside just now ;)
[06:21:33] <XXCoder> sleet RIGHT now apparently lol
[06:21:40] <Tom_L> ~4" or so
[06:21:46] <Tom_L> was out sweeping the walk
[06:22:44] <Tom_L> stopped mostly before bed last night
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[06:37:04] <jthornton> https://www.youtube.com
[06:38:05] <XXCoder> probably cost more than regular ones, but way better security lol
[06:38:16] <XXCoder> security cams have really badly insecure access
[06:38:44] <jthornton> why do you say that?
[06:38:57] <jthornton> all my cameras are a pia to log into
[06:43:04] <XXCoder> problems on loggining isnt always translate to highly secure
[06:43:33] <XXCoder> though some of em has silly issues like unchangable admin login and password
[06:45:09] <jthornton> mine force you to use a hard password or they won't even work lol and you can change the user name to whatever you want
[06:45:41] <XXCoder> having no default user name is nice security also yeah
[06:45:45] <jthornton> anyway all my cameras are only visible on my LAN so I wish I could use them without a password
[06:45:52] <XXCoder> 2 different data points to figure vs 1
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[07:04:27] <jthornton> going to take the raspberry pi 3 with the broken i/o and put a camera on it to get some use out of it
[07:05:47] <jthornton> https://www.pyimagesearch.com
[07:06:50] <XXCoder> yeah as well :)
[07:08:20] <jthornton> first thing I gotta do is get a micro sd card flashed... just spent 20 minutes trying to figure out why I could not ssh into it lol
[07:08:30] <jthornton> then plug it into the pi lol
[07:09:02] <XXCoder> :)
[07:09:09] <Loetmichel> jthornton_ classic ;)
[07:09:25] <XXCoder> i heard stories about guy being unable to turn pc on
[07:09:33] <XXCoder> turns out extension was plugged to itself
[07:09:47] <XXCoder> evenually I directly experenced that helping somone. lol
[07:09:58] <Loetmichel> happens
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[07:10:07] <jthornton> lol that's a good one
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[07:10:27] <jthornton> if you have a rats nest like my tables down here I can see that happening
[07:10:31] <XXCoder> im not worried, it WILL happen to me someday
[07:10:35] <XXCoder> everyone ages.
[07:11:33] <Loetmichel> had something similar today... boss: "that TFT isnt working" $me:"have you switched it on?" "Yes, of COURSE!"... came there to investigate: "and how did you do that, considering the menu keys PCB is missing entirely?" boss:"Ups!" :)
[07:12:13] <BitEvil> :)
[07:12:25] <XXCoder> lol
[07:12:56] <Loetmichel> got the front bezel with the PCB mounted, plugged it into the TFT electronics, pressed the power button and "voila" the TFT is working ;)
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[07:14:39] <Loetmichel> <- had just mounted a shielding glass in front of the TFT, hence the missing front bezel
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[07:55:38] <Loetmichel> *cough* *sway* ... spilling that half a liter of isopropyl alcohol on the workshop floor wasnt the greatest idea... quite "thick air" now in the shop... wouldnt smoke in there now ;)
[07:56:13] <sensille> "have you been drinking again?"
[08:11:17] <XXCoder> isnt that "go blind" type? or is that methinol something?
[08:12:01] <Loetmichel> IPA has the same effect as methanol if you drink it
[08:12:07] <Loetmichel> just more pronounced
[08:12:15] <XXCoder> extra fun!
[08:12:21] <Loetmichel> its for cleaning or rubbing, not for drinking
[08:12:32] <XXCoder> of course. lol
[08:17:05] <jthornton> hmm that rpi may have more problems than just no i/o it's running hot
[08:19:18] <XXCoder> fried chips?
[08:19:44] <jthornton> dunno I guess so it's still working but running hot
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[08:22:13] <CNC_Brian> Anyone know how you set the initial gremlin backlit scale?
[08:23:10] <CNC_Brian> Is there an ini setting. My code is running but the backplot is just a dot and have to zoom it every time
[08:24:08] <jthornton> it zooms to the size of your program, do you have a long rapid move?
[08:24:17] <jthornton> that won't show btw
[08:25:01] <CNC_Brian> Its just the initial state before I load any g-gode
[08:25:18] <CNC_Brian> Be good to see the xyz
[08:25:40] <jthornton> is this in qtpyvcp?
[08:26:11] <CNC_Brian> Yes, just constructing a UI using you instructions.
[08:26:33] <CNC_Brian> The probe basic seems broken so starting from scratch
[08:28:27] <CNC_Brian> The envelope of the machine is also like looking a Jupiter
[08:28:49] <CNC_Brian> Be nice to have a initial iso view of the table
[08:31:24] BitEvil is now known as speedevil
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[08:40:19] <jthornton> I don't see anything in the ini options https://qtpyvcp.kcjengr.com
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[08:40:41] <jthornton> iirc once you load a file and select a view it zooms correctly
[08:41:04] <jthornton> that pc is down at the moment loading my rpi software so need the monitor
[08:43:01] <CNC_Brian> No probs, thanks for looking. It can go not the TODO list.
[08:43:27] <CNC_Brian> BTW have you used this Wings IDE for Python is awsome
[08:43:40] <jthornton> TurBoss: is working on a VTK cannon for the backplot which should be a lot better than gremlin
[08:43:54] <jthornton> no, I just use gedit
[08:43:58] <CNC_Brian> Got 6 days left on the eval. May have to get my card out
[08:44:07] <TurBoss> hello
[08:44:14] <TurBoss> I paid for pycharm pro
[08:44:18] <TurBoss> 8 € month
[08:44:34] <TurBoss> I don't use to code qytpycvp but i do for other things
[08:44:38] <CNC_Brian> ThaWas going to try that next before I take the plunge
[08:45:00] <TurBoss> comunity version is just enought for me
[08:45:02] <CNC_Brian> Im just learning Python 3 for work
[08:45:08] <TurBoss> just paid for the ssh feature
[08:45:27] <TurBoss> python is nice
[08:45:37] <CNC_Brian> Im going to try pycharm next.
[08:45:49] <TurBoss> cool
[08:45:58] <TurBoss> comuniti version is full featured
[08:46:02] <TurBoss> not limits on usage
[08:46:03] <CNC_Brian> Yes Im warming to it. Im a C# .Net programmer.
[08:46:29] <TurBoss> oh
[08:46:30] <TurBoss> I mantain a C# program
[08:46:32] <TurBoss> its uggly
[08:46:33] <TurBoss> :P
[08:47:32] <CNC_Brian> Im used to visual studio doing my job form me :-)
[08:48:11] <rmu> visual studio does the job for you until it doesn't
[08:48:19] <TurBoss> hahahaha
[08:48:29] <rmu> i remember remote debugging being really painful
[08:48:44] <CNC_Brian> Kind of concerning all we are working on is Python 2.7 and its end of support soon
[08:49:14] <rmu> did they fix debugging CLR programs running on different host (in different AD domain with no trust relationship?)
[08:50:06] <CNC_Brian> Not had that pleasure! Have a full dev environment to play with
[08:51:18] <TurBoss> CNC_Brian: don't wait 6 days to try pycharm lol
[08:52:18] <CNC_Brian> Having a look on YouTube over a coffee now.
[08:52:29] <TurBoss> xD
[08:57:10] <CNC_Brian> Yes see what you mean. It look much better and more polished that Wings for a start
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[10:32:04] <CaptHindsight> if I inform some people that something works over a range of values, for instance between 3 and 6, why do they then ask "will it work at 4?" ....
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[10:32:38] <CaptHindsight> have they been teaching some "new" math where this might be too confusing for some?
[10:32:43] <pcw_home> will it work at 5.5?
[10:35:21] <gregcnc> those people need their hand held crossing the street
[10:36:43] <gregcnc> are all silicone the same if I'm trying to seal some steel collets? some are non-corrosive, does it matter?
[10:37:42] <CaptHindsight> yes and no
[10:37:48] <CaptHindsight> https://en.wikipedia.org
[10:37:57] <gregcnc> and if i need a form/mold to prevent the stuff from leaking out the slot, what plastic does silicone not stick to?
[10:38:38] <CaptHindsight> yes in that they fall under the category of polysiloxanes
[10:39:22] <gregcnc> store tube RTV?
[10:39:26] <CaptHindsight> but it's the side chains that can vary
[10:39:53] <CaptHindsight> the tubes also have fillers
[10:41:08] <gregcnc> nothing critical, I just want it to stick well not cause a bunch of rust
[10:41:14] <CaptHindsight> polypropylene is a good test of something that is difficult to bond to
[10:42:08] <Loetmichel> PE, too
[10:42:28] <gregcnc> Ok thanks
[10:42:37] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: can you add a film of oil before adding the RTV?
[10:43:37] <gregcnc> not sure I can keep oil out of the collet's slot I'm trying to fill with RTV, just have to give it a try
[10:45:05] <CaptHindsight> RTV also won't adhere to water
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[10:48:25] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: whats the white grease at auto parts stores?
[10:48:36] <gregcnc> lithium base
[10:48:47] <CaptHindsight> it won't stick to that either and it's highly viscus
[10:48:55] <CaptHindsight> so it won't run
[10:49:09] <CaptHindsight> yeah lithium based
[10:49:36] <gregcnc> yeah ok. I have an extra 5C chuck then
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[10:56:55] <CNC_Brian> On a standard BOB input with optocoupler I just apply 12V between ground and the pin in question don't I?
[10:57:11] <CNC_Brian> It has a built in resistor
[10:59:38] <skunkworks> if 12v isn't too much...
[11:00:06] <skunkworks> heh - 'standard BOB'
[11:01:16] <CaptHindsight> CNC_Brian: yeah, check the value of the resistor and the current range of the opto
[11:01:32] <CaptHindsight> no such thing as standard
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[11:02:23] <CNC_Brian> seResistor is 102 on it, which I guess is 1000ohms
[11:03:21] <CNC_Brian> So 12mA through the opto
[11:03:29] <CNC_Brian> Not taking any current
[11:05:24] <CNC_Brian> 2.2 V across onto so it must be working.
[11:05:33] <CaptHindsight> http://www.electronics-lab.com this design uses common anode for the input optos
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[11:06:40] <CaptHindsight> opto conducts when you pull the inputs low
[11:07:24] <CaptHindsight> some are just the opposite with common cathode
[11:10:33] <CNC_Brian> Yep that is need to ground the pin not supply 12 V!! Thanks though ~I was going mad
[11:11:13] <CaptHindsight> no problem, many BOB's have very poor on no docs
[11:11:21] <CaptHindsight> on/or
[11:12:00] <CaptHindsight> https://karusisemus.files.wordpress.com
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[11:13:16] <CNC_Brian> Just testing my homing on the bench before I grind any motors :-(
[11:15:25] <pcw_home> Yeah the common Ebay-Mach 5 Axis BOBs have common anode OPTOS so "sourcing" inputs also 12V for OPTOS is common with spindle control
[11:15:50] <skunkworks> homing is awesome https://www.youtube.com
[11:16:52] <pcw_home> so those that use the analog spindle control with KBIC type drives will get electrocuted if they touch their limit switches...
[11:18:16] <skunkworks> that is awesome!
[11:18:17] <CNC_Brian> Yes been there now built a daughter card on the KBIC which accepts PCM and gives the 0 - 7V
[11:18:35] <CNC_Brian> Opto isolated from everything
[11:18:41] <skunkworks> I must be having and awesome day
[11:19:27] <pcw_home> what did that machine start as?
[11:19:38] <skunkworks> pcw_home: mine?
[11:20:33] <pcw_home> Yeah
[11:21:52] <skunkworks> it was tormach's 440 prototype.
[11:22:07] <skunkworks> needless to say - they didn't go with that vendor.. :)
[11:22:35] <skunkworks> it is going to be a decent machine. It just needed a bit of tlc
[11:22:51] <pcw_home> Ahh thats the one you have been patching
[11:22:54] <skunkworks> https://www.youtube.com
[11:22:56] <skunkworks> yes
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[11:23:04] <skunkworks> when time permits..
[11:29:11] <CNC_Brian> How did you end up with a Tormach prototype?
[11:31:27] <skunkworks> it was trade for some trajectory planner testing I did.
[11:33:16] <pcw_home> Looks great, a really thorough job
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[11:44:16] <skunkworks> the spindle drives they gave me are pretty bad. I think I am going to use one of my stmbl drivers for it.
[11:44:30] <skunkworks> I have a couple previous generations..
[11:45:21] <skunkworks> of drives tormach tested. They are a bit scary
[11:49:16] <CNC_Brian> So you local to the Tormach factory.
[11:49:19] <CaptHindsight> how is Tormach doing after their CEO passed?
[11:51:08] <skunkworks> CNC_Brian: they are about 2 hours away.
[11:51:46] <CaptHindsight> https://madison.com
[11:51:48] <skunkworks> CaptHindsight: seem ok.. I really don't know.
[11:53:19] <CaptHindsight> has sold about 4,000 Tormach machines so far
[11:53:22] <CNC_Brian> Im saving for a PCNC 1100 in a special account my wife dosnt know about LOL
[11:53:30] <CaptHindsight> didn't know they sold that many machines
[11:54:17] <CNC_Brian> Doing some free-lance programming and squirreling the money away.
[11:55:28] <CNC_Brian> The new MX should shut up some of the critics, servos
[11:56:40] <skunkworks> I like the bt spindle.. rigid tapping and such. since they went with linuxcnc - that is all possible
[11:57:23] <CNC_Brian> Just need to do a linear rail and I can't see how anybody can criticise at the price point.
[11:57:56] <syyl_> i am still suprised that a dovetail should be cheaper to machine than just bolt linear rails on
[11:58:08] <syyl_> especially as they still do handfitting of the gibs
[11:59:58] -!- fragalot has joined #linuxcnc
[12:00:18] <skunkworks> that was the nice thing about the tormach 440 prototype. the ways felt really good. just everything else was a bit scrappy.
[12:00:51] <CaptHindsight> the castings are made in China
[12:01:15] <syyl_> yes, i know
[12:01:23] <CaptHindsight> i think the article mentioned that a Taiwanese firm does their QC for them
[12:01:25] <syyl_> and you can even get the lathe completely on alibaba
[12:01:33] <fragalot> 'sup
[12:01:34] <syyl_> without tormachsticker on it
[12:01:52] <syyl_> not sure what electronics it would come with
[12:02:01] <fragalot> syyl_: and with a CE sticker on it if you so wish
[12:02:03] <CaptHindsight> yeah likely seconds or just not as QC'ed parts
[12:02:04] <fragalot> unlike tormach :D
[12:02:16] <fragalot> CaptHindsight: tormach does QC?
[12:02:19] * fragalot runs
[12:02:29] <CaptHindsight> what the article says
[12:03:27] <syyl_> i wouldnt mind the sland bed lathe ;)
[12:03:43] <fragalot> i've looked at getting a tormach before I would up with the schaublin
[12:04:03] <fragalot> just couldn't find a reseller in europe & really did not feel like importing it myself
[12:04:35] <fragalot> the 2nd choice was a syil
[12:04:38] <skunkworks> you can get used cnc machines for less than the tormach... If you have the time to do the work/
[12:04:53] <fragalot> skunkworks: my issue is neither the funds, nor the time to do the work
[12:04:58] <fragalot> my issue is sheer size & weight
[12:05:45] <fragalot> it it does not fit between an 800mm wide gap, and can not be lifted over a 150mm step, and is taller than 1m90.. I can't fit it in
[12:05:53] <CaptHindsight> Tormach offers support, training and customization
[12:06:10] <CaptHindsight> what they say gets them the business
[12:06:33] <CNC_Brian> The price of parts for commercial machines is up believable.
[12:07:36] <CaptHindsight> fragalot: you need bigger doorways and halls
[12:07:47] <fragalot> CaptHindsight: if only it were that easy :-)
[12:08:13] <fragalot> there was a very nice building up for sale right around the corner (literally) here
[12:08:20] <fragalot> but it was about €6m above my budget
[12:10:58] <CaptHindsight> no family friendly industrial spaces there?
[12:11:23] <fragalot> none that are affordable if you're a mere hobbyist
[12:12:32] <CaptHindsight> I had a friend that collected cars
[12:12:43] <CaptHindsight> as the collection grew so did his garage
[12:12:56] <CaptHindsight> last i saw it was >70ft long
[12:13:26] <CaptHindsight> looked the same from the street
[12:13:39] <CaptHindsight> just kept on expanding back
[12:14:28] <fragalot> land prices in my area hover around €400/m² (in 2014..
[12:15:07] <CaptHindsight> we use sq ft so it's cheaper :)
[12:15:11] <fragalot> :D
[12:16:00] <CaptHindsight> I thought everything in socialist countries like yours is cheaper
[12:16:18] <fragalot> basic right goods are
[12:16:28] <fragalot> going to the dentist for example costs me €6
[12:16:40] <CaptHindsight> a fine hobby
[12:16:58] <fragalot> and you don't leave all loopy because we use more humane sedatives
[12:16:59] <fragalot> :D
[12:17:10] <CaptHindsight> land in cities here is no bargain either
[12:17:50] <gregcnc> at least we don't need generational loans...yet
[12:18:19] <CaptHindsight> you trade cheap land in the farmland for lack of culture and longer commutes to civilization
[12:18:21] <fragalot> yea, those are brutal
[12:19:05] <CaptHindsight> go too far out and you lose high speed internet
[12:19:23] <gregcnc> we're on the edge here now
[12:19:38] <fragalot> CaptHindsight: given that my country is probably smaller than your average american town.. that's not that much of an issue here :D
[12:20:23] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: I looked at some spots NW of Woodstock... just dialup or wireless ..
[12:20:41] <gregcnc> yeah, that house were were looking at too
[12:20:56] <fragalot> just set up good ol' sneakernets
[12:21:16] <CaptHindsight> the wireless ISP said: you're 20 miles from the tower, you'll have to see what signal is left
[12:21:46] <fragalot> nice
[12:22:03] <fragalot> here they'd offer to bill you for the added infrastructure required
[12:22:04] <CaptHindsight> some Motorola 50mb/s shared system
[12:22:38] <gregcnc> here, they know nobody would pay for infrastructure
[12:22:47] <fragalot> doesn't stop 'm trying
[12:22:47] <CaptHindsight> similar with Comcast cable, it's usually 10k-20K more than the cost of running the cable
[12:23:14] <CaptHindsight> 400ft, $12k
[12:23:40] <fragalot> friend of mine shelled out 25k to run 20 meters of electrical cable
[12:24:13] <Loetmichel> fragalot: "super audio" cable?
[12:24:14] <CaptHindsight> larger service with bigger transformers?
[12:24:21] <fragalot> Loetmichel: 3x400V+N
[12:24:29] <Loetmichel> ah, and buried?
[12:24:33] <fragalot> yes
[12:24:46] <Loetmichel> then its probably the digging that was so expensive, not the cable
[12:24:52] <fragalot> they just needed to pull it 'round the corner as it was not available yet at the front of his building
[12:25:07] <fragalot> Loetmichel: yes, the cable had to be provided by him
[12:25:25] <CaptHindsight> similar here but depends on how much public land it has to cross
[12:26:03] <fragalot> they dug 2 pits & shot it underground using one of those fancy flexidrill things
[12:26:38] <CaptHindsight> directional boring
[12:26:40] <gregcnc> expected consumption seems to have a big impact on install bill
[12:28:10] <CaptHindsight> still waiting for ATT fiber here, just inches away
[12:28:30] <gregcnc> in the building?
[12:28:35] <CaptHindsight> yes
[12:28:50] <CaptHindsight> other side of the interior wall
[12:29:08] <CaptHindsight> been there a year so far
[12:29:15] <fragalot> nice
[12:29:44] <CaptHindsight> will still have a $300 install fee
[12:30:00] <gregcnc> they just won't schedule you or what?
[12:30:11] <CaptHindsight> not available yet
[12:30:14] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: Deejay has a tractor and plow to get fibre into the ground without digging
[12:30:20] <gregcnc> oh
[12:30:45] <Deejay> :)
[12:30:48] <Loetmichel> at least he has access to the plow. its in germany though :-)
[12:30:56] <CaptHindsight> might be waiting for Comcast to raise rates
[12:31:00] <Loetmichel> am i right?
[12:31:08] <Deejay> more or less, yep ;)
[12:31:23] <Deejay> thats how we got our fibre in the earth :)
[12:34:58] <fragalot> Another one bites the dust it seems (Honda)
[12:35:48] <CaptHindsight> what happened?
[12:36:04] <fragalot> closed up shop in the UK
[12:38:25] <Loetmichel> thats not "biting the dust" thats "cut the losses for next month"
[12:38:27] <CaptHindsight> 16,000 Workers to Lose Their Jobs as Payless Plans to Close All 2,500 U.S., Canadian Stores
[12:39:02] <CaptHindsight> people here can't afford new cheap shoes anymore
[12:39:02] <fragalot> Loetmichel: swindon, the town that its based in is going to feel this
[12:39:19] <gloops> EU killed the diesel engine
[12:39:20] <Loetmichel> fragalot: for sure
[12:39:21] <fragalot> and all of their suppliers
[12:39:32] <Loetmichel> but its not Honda (the company as a whole) closing
[12:39:52] <fragalot> Loetmichel: true, i misworded it.
[12:40:18] <gloops> think andypugh lost his job with jaguar?
[12:40:24] <gregcnc> catpt idiocracy had it right with the retail monopoly, but didn't see the amazon delivery model
[12:43:01] <gloops> some of these closures are just plans brought forward, Nissan scrapped the X trail being built here - the X-trail is scheduled to end production totally in 2022 anyway
[12:43:04] <CaptHindsight> Toys R Us, Sears, David’s Bridal, Mattress Firm, Claire’s, 9 west....
[12:43:27] <CaptHindsight> I'm having a harder time finding what i want on Amazon
[12:43:39] <CaptHindsight> i must be trying too hard
[12:44:00] <gregcnc> amazon search is not very good
[12:44:47] <CaptHindsight> over half the results I get are completely non related
[12:46:06] <fragalot> I don't like how amazon figures you're starting a toaster oven collection because you purchased one once
[12:46:22] <CaptHindsight> just a suggestion
[12:46:33] <gregcnc> hah yeah, buy a spare part for a fridge and they think you're building one
[12:46:46] <gloops> well its like supermarket psychology, you have to walk past everything else before you get to the bread and milk - good chance youll put something in the basket you didnt go in for
[12:47:16] <CaptHindsight> i just walk in and ask what i should buy
[12:47:37] <gregcnc> didn't commercials already tell you that?
[12:48:04] <CaptHindsight> if you say so :)
[12:48:32] <Loetmichel> gloops: and it works
[12:48:52] <gloops> it must do Loetmichel, or they wouldnt do it
[12:49:01] <Loetmichel> especially when i have to get grocerys on the way home from work when i have missed breakfast AND lunch that daay
[12:49:58] <fragalot> haha
[12:50:02] <gloops> its also socially questionable to put discount booze and chocolate smack beside the checkout queue
[12:50:56] <fragalot> I thought that was required?
[12:51:12] <gregcnc> we don't have beer at the check outs, we have energy drinks?
[12:51:14] <CaptHindsight> this is genius: Google says the built-in microphone it never told Nest users about was 'never supposed to be a secret'
[12:51:18] <fragalot> booze is usually either th first, or the last item you pass
[12:51:27] <gloops> it think its been banned here actually, well the chocolate
[12:51:40] <fragalot> CaptHindsight: it wasn't supposed to be a secret, they just hadn't mentioned it
[12:51:56] <CaptHindsight> yeah that's it
[12:52:18] <gregcnc> free feature, what's the problem?
[12:52:53] <gloops> a free mic that goes absolutely everywhere with you
[12:53:26] <fragalot> I thought nest was their home automation setup that DOESN'T go everywhere with you but stays put at home?
[12:54:09] <CaptHindsight> https://nest.com
[12:54:34] <CaptHindsight> secure cloud
[12:54:48] <mozmck> All of my home automation is powered by elbow grease. I haven't seen a compelling reason to use all those electronic gadgets yet - and a whole lot of reasons NOT to.
[12:55:11] <CaptHindsight> try to find versions that don't use the "cloud"
[12:55:17] <gloops> video doorbell
[12:55:34] <gregcnc> still stoking the fire by hand?
[12:55:50] <mozmck> Yes actually, my sole heat source is a wood stove.
[12:55:51] <fragalot> CaptHindsight: secure. except for those that had been hacked & didn't know for ages until the hacker started talking to their child
[12:55:52] <CaptHindsight> IoT
[12:56:01] <gregcnc> that's old school
[12:56:30] <fragalot> I fully redid my house as well, and didn't even bother putting in central heating
[12:56:31] <mozmck> I find splitting wood with a 16lb maul to be pretty good excercise!
[12:56:56] <gregcnc> not many doing that anymore
[12:57:01] <fragalot> let alone automation for lights.. just the bog standard switcheroo
[12:57:02] <mozmck> And it doesn't seem worthless like going to a gym or something :-)
[12:57:28] <mozmck> Yeah, same here - might live a little longer if I have to get off the couch to turn the lights on.
[12:57:28] <CaptHindsight> talk to someone under 25
[12:57:37] <CaptHindsight> you need all this stuff
[12:57:40] <gregcnc> did you send these messages last week by carrier pigeon?
[12:57:54] <CaptHindsight> who cares about privacy, I have nothing to hide
[12:58:12] <fragalot> mozmck: my concern was more that these switches will last for decades, whilst most automation systems will not
[12:58:23] <mozmck> true
[12:58:26] <fragalot> (and they require more space & wiring)
[12:58:44] <CaptHindsight> there a new thread on the ML about how PC for machine control are old tech
[12:58:51] <mozmck> That's one of my reasons - the simpler it is, the longer it will last.
[12:59:13] <mozmck> and obviously old == no good right?
[12:59:49] <fragalot> tech enthousiast: "I have a NEST controlling everything"
[13:00:03] <gloops> they do say the best wine comes from old bottles
[13:00:05] <CaptHindsight> https://sourceforge.net
[13:00:07] <mozmck> Actually some of them are talking about going back to a bus setup with edge connectors - so they aren't against old per se.
[13:00:20] <fragalot> IT professional: "the most modern piece of equipment I own is a printer frlom 2004 and I have a loaded gun just in case it ever makes an unexpected noise"
[13:00:28] <CaptHindsight> silly old PC architecture from the 80's
[13:00:33] <mozmck> CaptHindsight: I'm on the list and have been reading that thread.
[13:01:19] <CaptHindsight> Another disappointment is G_code. It's archaic and "inhumane".
[13:01:35] <mozmck> yeah - not sure I understand the "inhumane" part
[13:01:45] <CaptHindsight> mozmck: was tempted to chime in but he's an idiot
[13:01:55] <mozmck> unless it's because he can't understand it...
[13:02:22] <CaptHindsight> he just attacks things without an explanation
[13:02:41] <CaptHindsight> I could draw him out but what is the point
[13:03:16] <CaptHindsight> "it's silly to search for suitable
[13:03:16] <CaptHindsight> PC motherboards that can run RT linux kernel when Arduino can handle
[13:03:16] <CaptHindsight> much of it."
[13:03:17] <mozmck> It's like the UI kids that think everything has to be "flat" and low contrast just because
[13:03:29] <fragalot> I hate that new UI craz
[13:03:29] <fragalot> e
[13:03:41] <fragalot> "oh yeah this flat text thing is actually an input field if you click on it"
[13:03:55] <CaptHindsight> "Why did GRBL designers go that route?" because they didn't see the big picture
[13:03:57] <Loetmichel> mozmck: not to mention that splitting wood is a pretty good stress release/anger vent ;)
[13:04:02] <mozmck> yeah - huge leaps backwards in actual useability.
[13:04:09] <CaptHindsight> kids often don't
[13:04:57] <mozmck> Loetmichel: haha! I sometimes go out and split a little while working over some problem in my mind - seems to help!
[13:05:00] <CaptHindsight> well when you don't know what you don't know yet
[13:05:02] <Loetmichel> ... that said: would i own a house it would probably have a central wood fired boiler and radiant heating in every floor
[13:05:07] <CaptHindsight> it's all so simple
[13:05:23] <gregcnc> if people ahven't looked at a complex machine vs a router or printer, they don't know why you'd want all the flexibility
[13:05:33] <Loetmichel> and a chute from outside right next to the furnace in the cellar ;)
[13:05:36] <mozmck> Loetmichel: I'm in Texas so we don't need that fancy a setup.
[13:05:42] <Loetmichel> german
[13:05:48] <Loetmichel> so we DO need that ;)
[13:05:52] <Loetmichel> gets pretty cold here
[13:06:31] <mozmck> Yeah, too cold there! I don't like temps under 75 degrees so I use my woodstove a good bit in the winter.
[13:06:36] <gregcnc> if they haven't coded a subroutine and run everything with G1 from a CAM soft, they don't know
[13:06:54] <CaptHindsight> heh my stat is set to 62F
[13:07:07] <mozmck> Better start a fire!
[13:07:29] <CaptHindsight> I keep the AC under 70F
[13:07:29] <mozmck> When we have HAD A/C, we set it at 80F
[13:07:46] <CaptHindsight> I'd melt there :)
[13:08:48] <Loetmichel> mozmck: the thermostat for the bedroom here is set to 64F, the rest of the flat has them set to 70F
[13:08:56] <Loetmichel> no AC
[13:09:09] <fragalot> all I have is a single gas heater in the livingroom & floor insulation
[13:09:13] <Loetmichel> wouldnt be worth the money for the 3 days a year you need it
[13:09:22] <fragalot> cold? turn the stove up. too warm? turn it down.
[13:09:37] <fragalot> upstairs not warm enough? open the livingroom door :D
[13:09:45] <fragalot> or grab an extra blanket
[13:10:02] <Loetmichel> fragalot: german houses tend to have central heating
[13:10:07] <Loetmichel> by design
[13:10:24] <Loetmichel> and its VERY convenient to have radiant floors
[13:10:36] <Loetmichel> especially in the bedroom and the bathroom(s)
[13:10:45] <Loetmichel> so you can walk barefoot on the tiles
[13:11:03] <fragalot> homes tend to have that here too
[13:11:17] <fragalot> but the investment if you're doing it all over is quite large
[13:11:23] <Loetmichel> indeed
[13:11:31] <fragalot> and I walk around barefoot without floor heating with no issues
[13:11:41] <fragalot> it makes a big difference if the floor is just insulated properly
[13:11:51] <Loetmichel> either design the house with radiant or basically tear it down and build a new one ;)
[13:12:03] <fragalot> the hallway isn't (because of the cellar), and there it is too cold to do it, but in the livingroom it's comfortable
[13:12:51] <Loetmichel> refitting radiant in an already built house is a pain.
[13:13:38] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: under floor?
[13:13:40] <CaptHindsight> invisible comfort zone that moves when you do
[13:14:08] <Loetmichel> <phone
[13:14:20] <gregcnc> microwave antenna on gimbals?
[13:14:34] <fragalot> replace all the ceiling tiles with IR heaters
[13:14:38] <fragalot> and motion sensors
[13:14:45] <CaptHindsight> very zoned heat source
[13:15:36] <CaptHindsight> i like gregs idea
[13:15:38] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: usually in /below the screet and above the insulation
[13:15:49] <CaptHindsight> but how about cooling?
[13:16:00] <Loetmichel> floors here tend to be 1' of concrete
[13:16:05] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Eh, just raise the floor two inches
[13:16:32] <gloops> i dont see what was wrong with a good coal fire
[13:16:34] <gregcnc> the stares my wife give are enough
[13:17:09] <Loetmichel> meaning if you want to refit radiant: rip out the screet and insulation, redo the insulation, place the pex for radiant, puir the screet and let it harden for a week before using the room again
[13:17:15] <gregcnc> gloops trump agrees
[13:17:57] <fragalot> Loetmichel: that's what I did, sans the pex & radiant.
[13:18:18] <gregcnc> but can't you use some of the renewable peat over there?
[13:20:45] <fragalot> they are looking into distributing waste heat from factories in some areas
[13:21:03] <Loetmichel> fragalot: its called "fernwärme" in germany
[13:21:11] <CaptHindsight> http://bme240.eng.uci.edu need to make this simple and portable
[13:21:19] <Loetmichel> some cities with close by power plants use it extensively
[13:21:34] <fragalot> we're not set up for it yet
[13:22:28] <CaptHindsight> cooling gloves might be easier
[13:22:34] <Loetmichel> when i lived in wuppertal we had 5' thick insulated tubes along the whole river bed that supplied each house up to about 600' from the river with heat
[13:23:12] <Loetmichel> single steam line to each house, a heat exchanger in the cellar to power the central heating
[13:23:17] <Loetmichel> very convenient
[13:23:23] <Loetmichel> and not that expensive, too
[13:23:25] <CaptHindsight> https://en.wikipedia.org
[13:23:36] <Loetmichel> because its "waste heat" from the power plant
[13:23:42] <CaptHindsight> China does similar
[13:24:34] <CaptHindsight> https://en.wikipedia.org
[13:26:12] <Loetmichel> ... and to top it off: that power plant is using trash/waste as a heat source ;)
[13:26:39] <Loetmichel> so no dumps that fill up and have to be covered near the city either ;)
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[13:36:56] <rmu> gloops: imagine, in pennsylvania they burn coal to heat a coal mine!
[13:38:17] <gloops> well that is the beauty of coal, so versatile
[13:38:28] <gloops> coal fired steam engines to ventilate the mine
[13:39:21] <CaptHindsight> yes, but they aren't very efficient, thats why they never put them in aircraft
[13:40:07] <gregcnc> nuclear aircraft saw limited use
[13:40:16] <gloops> theyre efficient in a different way, they use them for electricity generators
[13:40:47] <gregcnc> still?
[13:41:13] <gloops> yes still the best way
[13:41:24] <gregcnc> steam turbine is far better
[13:41:33] <rmu> wikipedia says centralia will burn for another 250 years
[13:41:55] <gloops> whats that rmu?
[13:42:17] <gregcnc> centralia has radiant floor heat for free
[13:42:18] <rmu> coal mine burning for 50 years
[13:42:30] <rmu> https://en.wikipedia.org
[13:42:41] <gloops> why dont they flood the shaft
[13:42:41] <Loetmichel> happens
[13:42:48] <Loetmichel> we have one here in germany, too
[13:43:00] <rmu> seems it is not that easy
[13:43:12] <CaptHindsight> https://en.m.wikipedia.org
[13:43:38] <CaptHindsight> Partially filled boreholes would provide an escape route for the fire
[13:45:00] <fragalot> rmu: have they tried large explosives?
[13:45:15] <fragalot> I'm pretty sure it'd work if the blast is big enough
[13:45:29] <CaptHindsight> The third plan was a "total and concerted flushing project" larger than the second project's flushing and costing $82,300. The state abandoned this project in 1963.[3]
[13:46:13] <gloops> needs a canal making from the nearest river, you should never sink a pit shaft too far from a river
[13:46:45] <gregcnc> nor too close?
[13:46:54] <fragalot> :D
[13:47:18] <gloops> too deep to bother the normal mining process
[13:47:32] <gloops> we have shafts under the sea here, its no problem
[13:48:00] <CaptHindsight> gas-station owner, inserted a dipstick into one of his underground tanks to check the fuel level, the temperature of the gasoline in the tank was 172 °F (77.8 °C
[13:48:01] <rmu> we have shafts high up in the mountains, no real river nearby
[13:48:50] <fragalot> shouldn't have put the shafts there then
[13:48:55] <fragalot> did you not listen to what gloops said
[13:49:06] <CaptHindsight> should be using safe coal
[13:49:08] <rmu> fragalot: the soviet union used atomic bomb explosions to contain natural gas leaks / fires
[13:49:13] <CaptHindsight> only burns under pressure
[13:49:15] <rmu> with mixed results
[13:49:29] <fragalot> rmu: it worked, except when the blast was not large enough still
[13:49:35] <gloops> we're working on gasifying coal in situ
[13:50:39] <CaptHindsight> Germany's Brennender Berg, been on fire since 1688
[13:50:44] <gloops> that way you get the energy out, but not the tar
[13:50:50] <gregcnc> it's not steam, but could have been.. https://www.instagram.com
[13:51:16] <fragalot> gregcnc: gotta love those hit'n'miss engines
[13:51:28] <fragalot> no fuss, get the job done as inefficiently as humanly possible
[13:52:05] <gloops> get it going - then do ALL your drilling before letting it stop
[13:53:29] <rmu> https://en.wikipedia.org
[13:54:27] <CaptHindsight> pour water down the hole, put up some of those steam windmills
[13:54:43] <CaptHindsight> power for a lifetime
[13:55:45] <CaptHindsight> Soviet engineers, my favorite!
[13:55:45] <fragalot> so THAT is what they mean by geothermal energy
[13:55:49] <fragalot> we've been going about this all wrong boys
[13:58:47] <rmu> this is proper geothermal energy https://en.wikipedia.org in gabon, central africa
[14:02:25] <fragalot> Neat.
[14:04:30] <Loetmichel> rmu: thats dead for a few millenia though IIRC
[14:06:37] <fragalot> well this is disappointing
[14:06:51] <fragalot> bought some talisker skye single malt scotch whisky
[14:06:56] <fragalot> it's not.. nice.
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[14:07:42] <gloops> not going to drink it then fragalot?
[14:08:16] <fragalot> give it to the guests, hope they're polite enough to drink it without complaining
[14:08:26] <fragalot> feed 'm some story about how this is from the only distillery on the isle of skye
[14:08:38] <CaptHindsight> not a fan of Islay? peat and smoke?
[14:08:55] <fragalot> the smokey peat is a bit too much
[14:09:15] <Loetmichel> fragalot: ever tried laphoraig? ;)
[14:09:24] <fragalot> it's not subtle, it's right there in your face, might as well go suck on an empty bbq fueled by car tires
[14:09:29] <CaptHindsight> then you probably won't enjoy Ardbeg, Lagavulin or Laphroaig
[14:09:51] <fragalot> ardberg is alright, not as "in your face" as this one
[14:09:53] <CaptHindsight> i call it heaven in an ash tray
[14:09:58] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: thats what i meant ;)
[14:10:16] <fragalot> CaptHindsight: that is quite an apt description, haha
[14:10:33] <CaptHindsight> my favorite flavors :)
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[14:11:11] <CaptHindsight> it's funny when somebody asks for a good scotch to try and someone points at what I'm drinking
[14:11:50] <gloops> did lostinsip get that machine he was looking at?
[14:11:52] <CaptHindsight> i usually suggest a starter scotch like balvenie
[14:11:56] <gloops> piranha
[14:12:09] <SpeedEvil> irn bru.
[14:12:10] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: Laphoraig had a customer qoute on their website: "drinking it is like getting kicked in the face by a horse that ran hours of peaty fields... and totally liking it!"
[14:12:19] <fragalot> i'm more of a cardhu or aultimore guy I guess
[14:12:25] <Loetmichel> or something to that extent
[14:13:13] <Loetmichel> and he is right, that describes it pretty well...
[14:13:25] <Loetmichel> i am a weakling though and use some ice in my glass
[14:13:43] <fragalot> nothing wrong with that
[14:13:49] <fragalot> water down to personal taste
[14:13:53] <CaptHindsight> drink what you like
[14:13:56] <CaptHindsight> how you like
[14:13:58] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org
[14:14:15] <Loetmichel> because of "cask strengh" ;)
[14:14:15] <CaptHindsight> just keep the light beer and IPA away from me
[14:14:23] <fragalot> IPA is awful
[14:14:27] <fragalot> absolutely disgusting
[14:15:03] <Loetmichel> that stuff has 58%vol
[14:15:20] <Loetmichel> undiluted its just tasting like nedicine
[14:15:23] <Loetmichel> -n+m
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[14:15:27] <fragalot> ok this skye stuff is slowly growing on me
[14:15:51] <Loetmichel> watered down a bit there is a lot of flavor emerging suddenly
[14:15:55] <fragalot> once you get used to the ashtray, as CaptHindsight describes it, lol
[14:16:11] <gloops> i dont like watering stuff down, vodka is all you need really
[14:16:38] <Loetmichel> vodka is for getting drunk, its tasteless
[14:16:46] <gloops> there is a big gin fad here atm
[14:16:57] <Loetmichel> a good whiskey is to be savoured and rolled around
[14:17:12] <CaptHindsight> Islay Storm is $20/750ml here
[14:17:26] <fragalot> this bottle was €52
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[14:17:41] <CaptHindsight> https://www.bourbonbanter.com
[14:17:48] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: i paid 120€ for that bottle of laphoraig
[14:18:07] <gloops> £30 a bottle here
[14:18:07] <Loetmichel> and that was an auction of a pub that closed down
[14:18:31] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: yes, it's on the higher priced side
[14:18:32] <Loetmichel> its usually more ;)
[14:18:45] <Loetmichel> totally worth it imho though
[14:19:16] <CaptHindsight> Ardbeg 10 is my usual
[14:19:41] <CaptHindsight> Islay Storm since it costs so little as is great
[14:20:30] <CaptHindsight> i understand the older stuff but it loses some of what I tend to like
[14:20:47] <CaptHindsight> not worth the extra $$ to me
[14:22:34] <CaptHindsight> http://whiskyadvocate.com
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[14:23:49] <CaptHindsight> what i call poison http://whiskyadvocate.com
[14:24:08] <CaptHindsight> Amrut Indian Whisky
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[14:42:24] <roycroft> islay storm is decent stuff, but i'm also a big fan oaf ardbeg 10
[14:42:43] <roycroft> i keep some lagavuli in stock as well
[14:43:10] <roycroft> and usually there's a bottle of laphroaig hanging around - i have friends who like to gift me with laphroaigh
[14:43:16] <roycroft> i don't complain
[14:44:15] <gloops> in the blind trials for gin here, the Aldi brand wins every time
[14:44:15] <roycroft> although it's not my favorate islay scotch, it's still good stuff and one should not a gift horse in the mouth
[14:44:28] <roycroft> especially when it's delicious
[14:44:48] <roycroft> for something a little different, though, i like oban a lot
[14:44:54] <roycroft> it's a highland scotch
[14:44:58] <roycroft> but it is a bit peaty
[14:46:56] <SpeedEvil> On the hydraulic press channel have they ever done repeated folding - of say copper with tin - to get bronze?
[14:48:21] <gloops> it would never be bronze would it?
[14:49:36] <SpeedEvil> Sure. Once you fold it enough that the folds are smaller than an atom.
[14:49:45] <SpeedEvil> - some 40 times.
[14:50:32] <gloops> the acid test would be, if you melt it down, can you seperate it again
[14:50:40] <CaptHindsight> roycroft: what! no Bowmore? :P
[15:10:08] * Tom_L quietly steps into the back of the bar and takes a seat
[15:10:58] * Jymmm sends a pitcher to Tom_L's table
[15:12:31] * Tom_L pours some in a tin cup and watches the cup dissolve
[15:12:41] <gloops> beer before wine - youll feel fine
[15:12:53] <gloops> wine before beer makes you feel queer
[15:13:09] <Tom_L> dare you jeer in here!
[15:14:27] <gloops> nobody ever seems to do any machining in here lol
[15:14:46] <Tom_L> maybe that's why archivist left
[15:14:54] <SpeedEvil> Hydraulic presses are machine tools too!
[15:15:55] <gloops> funny about archivist, he left the electronics channels as well and took down his servers with a lifetimes archives
[15:16:11] <Tom_L> odd
[15:16:43] <fragalot> decided it was time to go back to the coal mines
[15:17:30] <CaptHindsight> we answer any noobs questions
[15:18:05] <CaptHindsight> often more thoroughly than they wanted
[15:18:24] <Tom_L> hasn't been an awful lot goin on lately
[15:19:10] <CaptHindsight> i prefer designing and building machines to using them
[15:19:23] <CaptHindsight> way too noisy
[15:19:56] <Tom_L> i'd rather be in a room full of machines than a room full of women
[15:20:20] * SpeedEvil has been playing with large battery charger/battery/solar designs.
[15:20:31] <CaptHindsight> Tom_L: aren't working on writing thread forming routines?
[15:20:39] <CaptHindsight> aren't you
[15:20:40] <Tom_L> finished
[15:20:42] <SpeedEvil> (~12kW/8kWh/3kW charger.
[15:21:21] <Tom_L> only so many ways you can spin a helix...
[15:21:27] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: as in rapid charging?
[15:21:40] <CaptHindsight> ichs waiting until after he was dead to take down everything
[15:21:56] <Jymmm> Tom_L: 5th dimension helix?????
[15:22:13] <CaptHindsight> archivist is just being proactive :)
[15:22:30] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: few hours to charge a 8kWh battery from generator as backup at near full throttle on a 3kW generator.
[15:23:15] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: what kind of battery / configuration?
[15:23:22] <SpeedEvil> 18650*several
[15:23:35] <CaptHindsight> at least a dozen
[15:23:48] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: unprotected?
[15:24:10] <Tom_L> CaptHindsight, results: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81
[15:24:11] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: 4s*4p modules seperately protected and then fused together.
[15:24:42] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: Individual cell monitoring too?
[15:25:00] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: No.
[15:25:25] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: Still, nice. HAve you seen that 30KW setup on youtube?
[15:25:46] <SpeedEvil> Nope. Designing for simplicity and safety.
[15:25:53] <gloops> i think one of Ichs machines scanned him at molecular level and reconstructed him as a signal inside a mach3 BOB
[15:25:58] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: HE uses some computering monitoring/logging
[15:26:38] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: 50C thermal fuses help, as well as adequate isolation to cope with a cooking off pack.
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[15:28:08] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: I would be interested is seeing data if you plan on collecting any
[15:28:45] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: I may eventually add per-subpack current monitoring.
[15:29:48] <SpeedEvil> But, per-cell tells me little of interest that per-pack temperature from IR occasionally + whole pack performance does.
[15:31:24] <CaptHindsight> Galaxy Fold , phone unfolds to a 7" tablet
[15:33:28] <CaptHindsight> https://youtu.be
[15:33:39] <CaptHindsight> no visible seam in the video
[15:33:44] <SpeedEvil> neat
[15:33:57] <SpeedEvil> And it's only the price of two tablets and two phones.
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[15:34:12] <CaptHindsight> yeah :)
[15:34:28] <CaptHindsight> well in a few years $200
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[15:36:10] <fragalot> CaptHindsight: lasts for up to 200 folds.
[15:37:13] <CaptHindsight> wonder what the durability is now
[15:37:38] <CaptHindsight> outside at -5C
[15:37:42] <fragalot> at least one
[15:37:50] <fragalot> note how they didn't fold & unfold a lot in the demo :D
[15:38:08] <CaptHindsight> if the two sides still work, it's still a sucess
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[15:48:19] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com Chinese automation
[15:49:44] <fragalot> ItWorks(tm)
[15:51:39] <CaptHindsight> how they make the dovetails for Tormach https://youtu.be
[15:52:27] <fragalot> I was thinking the same thing about my old RF45 :D
[15:54:10] <CaptHindsight> much of that video is how to do things without a concern for safety
[15:54:35] <fragalot> or quality for one or 2 things
[15:55:11] <CaptHindsight> why your parts look like they were stored on a dirty floor, well because they were made on one as well
[15:55:39] <fragalot> you'd be hard pressed to automate something faster than some of these workers are doing it, lol
[15:56:11] <CaptHindsight> check out 6:00
[15:56:37] <fragalot> it gets better
[15:58:59] <CaptHindsight> workers wanted, 9 fingers or more required
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[16:08:15] <XXCoder> so safe. lkol
[16:09:04] <fragalot> that micrometer at 5:00 https://www.youtube.com
[16:10:19] <XXCoder> so many ways to get rid of inconvient fingers.
[16:10:40] <fragalot> or convenient fingers. the machines aren't fussy
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[16:12:21] <XXCoder> 5:10 dang insane
[16:13:35] <XXCoder> crazy stuff, but swapping parts while its going up and down is worse
[16:24:17] <XXCoder> fragalot: interesing video
[16:24:29] <XXCoder> also saw maching to make barrels also. interesting
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[16:26:22] <XXCoder> fragalot: omg the mic. the mic to rule all
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[16:28:27] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: chicken feet powered https://youtu.be
[16:29:51] <CaptHindsight> why the claws?
[16:30:20] <XXCoder> probably more effiecent on moving whatever in
[16:30:31] <XXCoder> stuff isnt shown spo dunno what its made to move.
[16:31:28] <XXCoder> video shows basically only one guy doing specific task, then at 9:30 theres what 8 people watching LOL
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[16:56:22] <Deejay> gn8
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[17:32:24] <Jymmm> YAY, landline AND internet are back
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[18:02:56] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: you have really had a sting of outages... heat, phone, internet
[18:03:04] <CaptHindsight> sting/string
[18:05:01] <ItsFlipp_> Man, I'm _still_ having trouble with heat buildup with 6061 :(
[18:05:18] <CaptHindsight> welding or cutting
[18:05:27] <ItsFlipp_> Part getting hot enough to actually boil the mist coolant I'm using
[18:05:32] <ItsFlipp_> no welding AFAICT
[18:05:54] <CaptHindsight> are you rubbing vs cutting?
[18:05:55] <ItsFlipp_> Brand new ZrN 2 flute had the same issue as my old YG-1
[18:06:09] <ItsFlipp_> I don't believe so. Chips are clearing just fine, and surface finish looks alright
[18:06:11] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: electricity too, but have the dual fuel gen that I love
[18:06:33] <ItsFlipp_> I've tried 0.001, 0.0015, and 0.0027 IPT with similar results
[18:07:31] <ItsFlipp_> I'm tempted to just let the mist coolant go wiiiiiiide open and see if it's simply that I'm not providing enough
[18:07:39] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I'm still working on tapping into the 250gallon propane tank as well, Just incase the seven 5gal tanks I have go empty
[18:08:22] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: don't drill it until its empty
[18:08:59] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: What, I might start a wildfire or soemthing???
[18:09:25] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: you already had fires, what are the odds of another one? :)
[18:10:20] <CaptHindsight> ItsFlipp_: what is the tool dia? speed and feed rate used?
[18:10:30] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: After 150,000 acres, eh, not sure
[18:10:45] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: what is left to burn?
[18:11:01] <ItsFlipp_> Tried with two 1/4 inch 2 flute, one bright and one ZrN coated
[18:11:10] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: have any pics? does it look like an alien landscape?
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[18:12:18] <Jymmm> https://i.imgur.com
[18:12:30] <ItsFlipp_> I've tried 8400RPM@40 IPM (~0.002X IPT)
[18:12:49] <ItsFlipp_> and 10k@20 IPM (~0.001 IPT)
[18:13:37] <ItsFlipp_> Chip evac is solid, chips go flyin' away in a nice stream
[18:14:06] -!- Vq has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[18:15:31] <ItsFlipp_> Cut parameters are ~.45" DOC, 25% WOC (0.0625")
[18:15:48] <ItsFlipp_> Adaptive (HSM) toolpath from fusion
[18:18:42] <ItsFlipp_> To me that seems like a bit of an aggressive cut, but GWizard suggests going gangbusters at something like 10k@109 IPM
[18:18:54] <ItsFlipp_> which comes out to like 0.0055 IPT O.o
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[18:25:40] <CaptHindsight> .45" DOC with 0.25" dia tool?
[18:28:04] <ItsFlipp_> Flute length is 1", and GWiz suggests deflection is < 0.0001
[18:29:55] <ItsFlipp_> ack, scratch that. 0.75" flute length, and stickout is ~0.9"
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[18:35:19] <jthornton> carbide or HSS?
[18:35:33] <ItsFlipp_> ZrN coated carbide, 2fl
[18:36:18] <jthornton> if 6061 is getting hot your chips are too small
[18:36:40] <jthornton> you have to "pull" the heat from the cut out with the chip
[18:37:02] <Tom_L> ItsFlipp, you didn't mistakenly get left hand cutters did you ? :)
[18:37:55] <ItsFlipp_> jthornton: Yeah, that's what I've seen in steel; the chip turns slightly yellow (with blue being too hot)
[18:38:11] <ItsFlipp_> Tom_L: That'd sure explain it ;) but naw, got normal ones
[18:38:29] <jthornton> same in aluminum if your chip is too small then your rubbing which makes even more heat
[18:38:34] <Tom_L> i brought that up because i've actually seen it happen
[18:38:39] <CaptHindsight> Tom_L: or spindle is going backward
[18:38:40] <ItsFlipp_> jthornton: I'm not sure what to look for in alu chips though
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[18:39:02] <jthornton> if the part is cool to the touch the chips are large enough
[18:39:41] <ItsFlipp_> Don't have a picture of any handy, but the chips seem to look "alright" (for whatever that's worth)
[18:39:44] <jthornton> 6061 is a bit gummy compared to 7075 so you can't take a small deep cut
[18:40:06] <jthornton> if the mist is boiling off then the part is too hot
[18:40:10] <ItsFlipp_> jthornton: yeah, the part gets hot enough to flash boil the mist coolant O.o
[18:40:23] <ItsFlipp_> clearly I'm doin' something way wrong :C
[18:40:29] <CaptHindsight> depth of cut for .25" dia > 1x gets me broken tools
[18:40:31] <jthornton> chip too small
[18:40:59] <jthornton> yea too deep small chip load
[18:41:18] <Tom_L> .250" cutter?
[18:41:27] <ItsFlipp_> .25" carbide ZrN 2fl
[18:41:28] <CaptHindsight> yes
[18:41:30] <Tom_L> yeah that's too deep for that cutter
[18:41:54] <ItsFlipp_> really? hmm, interesting
[18:42:09] <Tom_L> the yt i showed you was full width cuts at ~.1-.125 iirc
[18:42:17] <Tom_L> maybe more
[18:42:53] <ItsFlipp_> jthornton: what's a typical IPT for 6061?
[18:42:55] <Tom_L> but on my machine i was going ~.001" chipload
[18:43:20] <Tom_L> ItsFlipp, depends on the machine really
[18:43:43] <Tom_L> i've heard as high as .006-.008" chip load on a big machine
[18:43:49] <ItsFlipp_> Tom_L: yeah, that makes sense. Less LOC = smaller chips
[18:44:08] <ItsFlipp_> I'm running a 1.5HP tormach, so not terribly beefy
[18:44:11] <jthornton> hmm I don't have my mill calculator down here it seems
[18:44:42] <CaptHindsight> https://daycounter.com
[18:45:11] <Tom_L> https://www.youtube.com
[18:45:17] <Tom_L> look at 4:40
[18:45:18] <jthornton> ItsFlipp_: all the charts and stuff are guides you still have to tweak them to your machine and the material
[18:46:06] <Tom_L> i wish i'd have had 2 vises for that part
[18:47:39] <Tom_L> zeeshan was a fan of thin deep cuts
[18:47:57] <Tom_L> claims quicker material removal @ less load
[18:48:40] <ItsFlipp_> jthornton: Sure, sure. It's just that I'm finding a bit of conflicting info at times. that daycounter.com Capt linked suggests 280 sfm for 6061, while Niagara's website suggests 800-2000
[18:49:40] <Tom_L> niagra sells cutters.
[18:49:54] <ItsFlipp_> e.g. Niagara suggests 0.002 IPT for a 1/4", which was what I tried
[18:49:59] <ItsFlipp_> yeah, have a few of 'em :)
[18:50:03] <Tom_L> they like to show off their stuff
[18:50:06] <jthornton> sfm is a guide as well and that depends very much on machine capabilities, I machine 6061 at 200SFM on my BP just because that's all she's got
[18:51:22] <jthornton> 0.002 IPT for a 1/4" sounds ok to me but the proof is in the pudding, is the part cool...
[18:51:22] <CaptHindsight> https://www.custompartnet.com
[18:51:33] <CaptHindsight> https://littlemachineshop.com
[18:52:39] <CaptHindsight> have to see what SFM works for you
[18:53:05] <Tom_L> ItsFlipp, my spindle is only .6hp :)
[18:53:31] <Tom_L> otherwise chips'd be flyin out the back door
[18:53:48] <jthornton> custompartnet is a good calculator for starting numbers
[18:54:00] <Tom_L> fswizzard is decent too
[18:54:35] <Tom_L> i keep it on my phone but generally rely on the cad cam calcs
[18:54:37] <jthornton> ItsFlipp_: I learned how to weld 6061 to an end mill first...
[18:55:00] <ItsFlipp_> Haha, yeah, I learned that a while ago :)
[18:55:05] <Tom_L> ur not supposed to weld steel to aluminum...
[18:56:08] <jthornton> yes you are, how do you think they make aluminum super structures for ships? they have a steel/aluminum strip that is welded together
[18:56:21] <Tom_L> huh, really?
[18:56:28] <ItsFlipp_> So FSWizard suggests 10k@80 IPM (?!)
[18:56:47] <Tom_L> so change the rpm to what you can do and maintain the chipload
[18:56:56] <jthornton> yea, it's like 2" wide at the joint and 1/4" wide at the end
[18:57:17] <Tom_L> what filler metal?
[18:57:44] <jthornton> dunno looked like aluminum to steel to me
[18:58:04] * jthornton used to work in a shipyard building destroyers and overhauling subs
[18:58:06] <ItsFlipp_> Do they stir weld it?
[18:58:26] <jthornton> I think it is a pressure weld
[19:00:15] <jthornton> ItsFlipp_: what Tom_L said rpm is SFM and chipload is IPM so adjust them to fit your machine
[19:01:15] <ItsFlipp_> Yup
[19:01:48] <ItsFlipp_> but to be clear: if the 6061 part is getting warm/hot, increase IPT?
[19:02:03] <jthornton> you might have to lower DOC to get chipload without breaking a 1/4" end mill
[19:02:11] <jthornton> yes
[19:04:16] <jthornton> I like Lakeshore Carbide end mills
[19:04:39] <jthornton> the vari-flute for alum is awesome
[19:05:22] <ItsFlipp_> Heard of them on Saunders' channel
[19:05:49] <ItsFlipp_> A coworker swears by SpeedTiger
[19:06:29] <jthornton> T-6 for the automagical chicken door to close :)
[19:08:23] <jthornton> Tom_L: you getting more rain tomorrow? we are getting it friday and saturday
[19:08:24] <Tom_L> the chicken door has had more code changes lately than linuxcnc
[19:08:32] <jthornton> yep lol
[19:08:42] <Tom_L> i'm not sure, i haven't seen the forecast yet
[19:09:25] <jthornton> I think I have the new door ready to install now, it auto starts at boot up and it tries twice to open/close
[19:09:35] <jthornton> so I'm happy with the code now
[19:10:31] <jthornton> I'm thinking I can get out to my buddy's property and cut some firewood tomorrow if his field is not too wet from yesterday
[19:10:44] <Tom_L> snow is pretty much gone now though
[19:11:13] <jthornton> I think the cold is starting to wind down here
[19:11:25] <Tom_L> certainly hope so
[19:12:31] <Tom_L> i suppose i could work out a macro now for external threads
[19:12:43] <jthornton> got my seeds from Baker Creek the other day so time to get ready for planting https://www.rareseeds.com
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[19:13:08] <asdfasd1> https://www.youtube.com
[19:13:15] <asdfasd1> Published on Dec 28, 2007
[19:13:30] <asdfasd1> robot controlled by emc2 (linuxcnc)
[19:13:50] <Tom_L> i'm not sure where my neighbor used to get her seeds but she was always coming up with something different
[19:14:17] <jthornton> Baker Creek has everything you can think of and then some lol
[19:14:55] <jthornton> both chicken doors are down... time for chow
[19:17:13] <CaptHindsight> still freezin up here
[19:17:24] <CaptHindsight> not even thinking about planting yet
[19:17:51] * Jymmm install a secret chicken-speak door opener
[19:18:12] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: looks eerie
[19:18:14] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: how big is your lot?
[19:18:47] <CaptHindsight> ~ 4ft x 20ft with shrubs and two ac units
[19:18:51] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: https://i.imgur.com
[19:19:11] <CaptHindsight> the rest is asphalt
[19:19:45] <CaptHindsight> post apocalyptic
[19:19:52] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: https://i.imgur.com
[19:20:02] <Jymmm> war zone
[19:20:22] <Jymmm> I have many more photos, just not posted
[19:20:23] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: is that your before or after? :p
[19:20:49] <CaptHindsight> i see farms out here that look like that
[19:21:03] <Jymmm> I'll have to look back to see how many "before' I actually have
[19:21:18] <Jymmm> That was a surplus store actually
[19:21:28] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: was the last pic a house or whats left of it?
[19:21:45] <Jymmm> surplus store
[19:21:53] <CaptHindsight> looks like some brick lower right corner
[19:21:58] <Jymmm> lots camping, gold panning, gear, etc
[19:22:19] <CaptHindsight> steel building?
[19:22:44] <Jymmm> No, yeah brick, we have LOTS of fireplaces and wood stoves in this area
[19:22:52] <CaptHindsight> or all wood and there some corrugated materials scattered about
[19:22:59] <Jymmm> not steel bldg
[19:23:33] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: do the larger trees survive?
[19:24:04] <Jymmm> Won't know till spring, but doubtful
[19:24:37] <Jymmm> There are tree companies as far a NC here
[19:25:20] <CaptHindsight> salvageba;e as any lumber or just toasted mulch?
[19:25:32] <CaptHindsight> salvageable even
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[19:39:09] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Anything smaller than 6" is being trashed, the trees are being turned into lumber. This is forestry area, and lots of lumber mills
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[20:17:15] <MacGalempsy> good evening
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[20:50:08] <Tom_itx> http://www.carbidedepot.com
[20:50:28] <Tom_itx> good resource for various tool & machining data
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[21:50:15] <hazzy-m> are subs not verified to be within machine limits before running?
[21:51:49] <hazzy-m> just ended up on a limit switch at 300ipm, thankfully it stopped fast enough to not hit the hard limit
[21:53:20] <Tom_L> not sure
[21:55:18] <hazzy-m> LCNC is so good at checking that the program fits within limits that I am spoiled
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[21:56:17] <hazzy-m> I guess it would be hard to check subs since they can change dynamically as they execute
[21:59:57] <Tom_L> it's not a perfect world
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[22:02:52] <cradek> hazzy-m: being in a sub isn't what caused that
[22:03:35] <cradek> hazzy-m: (from memory) certain arcs aren't checked fully for soft limit violations, I wonder if that's what caused your surprise
[22:07:45] <hazzy-m> cradek: ah, interesting, the sub was a single G2 arc
[22:13:59] <skunkworks> Yes - i have run machines into hard limits because of that..
[22:14:10] <skunkworks> It only checks endpoints.
[22:14:38] <skunkworks> So an arc can have both endpoints within the soft limits - but the actual motion can be outside
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[22:51:51] <hazzy-m> skunkworks: Thanks! Thanks makes sense
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