#linuxcnc | Logs for 2019-04-18

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[00:00:25] <ve7it> Jymmm, I now have 4 nice displays all broken.... been trying to get project done since Jan.... slow boat to China
[00:01:02] <Jymmm> ve7it: That sucks, maybe try ali???
[00:01:42] * Lcvette uploaded an image: VectorImage_2019-04-18_120133.jpg (839KB) < https://matrix.org >
[00:01:58] <Lcvette> OK found and disabled AMT
[00:02:17] <ve7it> Jymmm, interesting that banggood wants a youtube video to resolve the issue... seems like free bad advertising... but guess most people just give up on $20
[00:02:17] <Lcvette> Anything else? Also turned off other power saving features
[00:03:58] <Jymmm> ve7it: a photo should have been sufficiant
[00:04:48] <pcw_home> Lcvette: that should do it.
[00:05:22] <Lcvette> Wait, I can't disa le amt
[00:05:33] <Lcvette> Can't disable it
[00:05:45] <pcw_home> Why not?
[00:06:16] <Lcvette> Maybe I did
[00:06:30] <Lcvette> Hard to figure it out
[00:06:34] <pcw_home> Its tricky
[00:06:53] <pcw_home> I _Hate_ Intel ME crap
[00:06:58] <Lcvette> If I disable it it shits all those items off.?
[00:07:07] <Lcvette> It kicks me out of the menu
[00:07:25] <pcw_home> It only disables remote management
[00:07:47] * Lcvette uploaded an image: VectorImage_2019-04-18_120737.jpg (616KB) < https://matrix.org >
[00:08:04] * Lcvette uploaded an image: VectorImage_2019-04-18_120755.jpg (537KB) < https://matrix.org >
[00:08:35] <Lcvette> I hit f10 takes me back to main menu
[00:08:36] <Lcvette> Seem right?
[00:08:59] <pcw_home> yeah
[00:09:40] <pcw_home> Its been a while. I needed to google around a bit to figure it out
[00:10:31] <Lcvette> OK think I'm all good now
[00:10:43] <Lcvette> \o/
[00:11:05] <Lcvette> Man this thing boots fast
[00:11:38] <pcw_home> its fairly snappy
[00:13:08] <Lcvette> So on the histogram, which numbers are the indicators?
[00:13:28] <Lcvette> Min and max (us)?
[00:15:17] <Lcvette> That's the jitter?
[00:15:37] <Lcvette> It's much better then before now
[00:16:17] <pcw_home> the larger of absolute( min max) is the same as the latency test measures
[00:16:44] * Lcvette uploaded an image: chris-18Apr2019-223.png (39KB) < https://matrix.org >
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[00:17:38] <Lcvette> thats pretty good then
[00:17:50] <Lcvette> ~9100
[00:17:57] <Lcvette> gonna let it run foir a whiole more
[00:18:25] <pcw_home> Yeah might get a bit worse if you watch youtube videos but certainly good enough
[00:19:22] <pcw_home> probably not the best idea to watch youtube videos when machining anyway...
[00:20:12] <Lcvette> lol
[00:20:40] <Lcvette> yeah opened two youtubes in 1080p and it jumped to 56.5
[00:20:43] <Lcvette> :O
[00:20:51] <Lcvette> with 10 glx gears
[00:21:14] <Lcvette> still better then anything else i had except the g3258 systems
[00:21:33] <Lcvette> those are just silly
[00:21:45] <pcw_home> yeah best Ive seen
[00:22:14] <Lcvette> h97m pro4 is etter then the z97eitx
[00:22:32] <Lcvette> but the z97e-itx does great for a tiny board
[00:22:45] <pcw_home> 8300 I have is really solid and fast with Ethernet motion cards
[00:23:14] <Lcvette> i'll be ordering a ethernet card soon
[00:23:22] <Lcvette> need to recoup a bit
[00:23:58] <Lcvette> need one for the rhino lathe
[00:24:02] <pcw_home> any of those would be fine (I suspect almost any Intel I(3,5,7) would be OK)
[00:25:02] <pcw_home> Even my old 2nd gen I5 laptop is OK (as long as you dont change the power source or adjust the backlight)
[00:26:12] <Lcvette> lol
[00:26:26] <pcw_home> Though things with built in keyboards you cant just toss are probably not great around metal chips
[00:26:28] <Lcvette> im back on my work station it has a gen2 i5
[00:26:48] <Lcvette> and 2gb of ram
[00:27:09] <Lcvette> it did 54.x on the latency
[00:27:21] <Lcvette> not too shabby that was 10glx and some youtubes
[00:27:32] <pcw_home> its probably fine also
[00:27:32] <Lcvette> lenovo thinkthentre
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[00:35:54] <elmo40> i only buy Lenovo laptops.
[00:36:06] <elmo40> They are top notch, in my experience.
[00:36:38] <elmo40> They ruined the keyboards lately, though... fools. Who needs a full numpad on a laptop????
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[03:09:55] <Deejay> moin
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[03:14:53] <Loetmichel> maan, why me? anyone knows of an commercially aviable "adapter" to place 5mm*20mm fuses in screw-in holders meant for 6,35mm*35mm glass fuses? boss sold a bunch of PCs with two different input fuses and customer wants to only stock one sort of fuses for them.
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[03:57:17] <rmu> Loetmichel: how often do those fuses blow? and how often does a fuse blow without there being something seriously wrong in the PC? i.e. requiring repair beyond changing fuse?
[03:58:32] <Loetmichel> rmu:never
[03:59:07] <Loetmichel> but the customer is french military, so they are quite anal about not stocking 2 different sorts of fuses for one series of PC
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[05:09:03] <SpeedEvil> Loetmichel: but they are fine with wierd unavailable adaptor?
[05:09:41] <SpeedEvil> I suppose including a couple of fuses taped to the PC is right out?
[05:10:08] <gloops> https://www.ebay.co.uk
[05:10:29] <gloops> funny to look at some of the conflict in these home made machines
[05:10:53] <gloops> built the frame like a tank, ample motors, but then a hairdryer for a spindle
[05:12:15] <gloops> not much attention paid to the welds either lol
[05:17:49] <XXCoder> hey all
[05:18:01] <XXCoder> whats your preference on can paint for car part?
[05:18:16] <XXCoder> i got a part here, primered but want to match black with "shiny flakes" look
[05:26:16] <gloops> not sure they do metal flake in cans
[05:26:48] <gloops> oh yeah, they do
[05:27:16] <XXCoder> im not sure on many stuff though
[05:27:18] <Loetmichel> SpeedEvil: its an "after delivery thing"
[05:27:33] <XXCoder> what weather to spray in, whats pre-paint prep, etc. part is pre-primered
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[05:27:50] <Loetmichel> they are complaining about having to stock two different fuses. "cant make our soldiers chose" or something
[05:28:27] <gloops> if the part is primed you just need to add the colour, then clearcoat
[05:29:07] <XXCoder> is there such things as small cans? mirror cover is pretty small
[05:29:09] <gloops> obviously spray when warm, not windy
[05:29:23] <XXCoder> whats good brand cans?
[05:29:41] <gloops> you can get small cans here, dunno about usa
[05:30:01] <XXCoder> i'll probably get carded
[05:30:18] <XXCoder> attempting to fight against kids thats tagging
[05:30:23] <Loetmichel> carded means showing ID?
[05:30:27] <XXCoder> yep
[05:31:21] <Loetmichel> then yes. some kinds of paint are harmful enough that you need to show ID to buy them in germany (and i think in whole europe as well)
[05:31:38] <XXCoder> i wonder if goldnoses still exist
[05:32:09] <gloops> 2k paint is pretty bad, you wont be able to buy it off the shelf
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[05:32:40] <gloops> probably best bet if you want a good match is to go to auto-paint dealer, theyll find a good match and put it in a can for you
[05:33:09] <gloops> just tell them exactly what you want
[05:33:17] <XXCoder> hmm ok
[05:34:10] <gloops> over here if you know your paint code, they do off the shelf cans for most ford colours
[05:34:25] <XXCoder> mines just basic black though shiny dunno
[05:34:38] <XXCoder> theres old saying by henry ford
[05:34:45] <XXCoder> you can have any color as long as its black
[05:35:11] <gloops> trying to match by eye is very hit and miss lol, there are hundreds of differents whites for example, and when you spray one slightly different on another - you can see the difference plainly
[05:35:51] <SpeedEvil> Loetmichel: does it actually even by implication specify this in the contract?
[05:36:26] <XXCoder> btw goldnose is from decades ago. kids used to sniff paint can, and gold gave highest high
[05:36:35] <XXCoder> so end result is nose has gold paint
[05:36:51] <SpeedEvil> Loetmichel: i don't suppose just supplying a sticker saying 'not a user servicable part' would work?
[05:39:22] <Loetmichel> nope
[05:41:00] <Loetmichel> problem is: while those fuses will normally not blow unless the ATX PSU dies and need an inhouse repair anyways someone managed to put in 3A hyperfast fuses in the PCs
[05:41:27] <Loetmichel> instead of 3A slow blow. So half of them blew at the customer already
[05:41:41] <Loetmichel> which made them being pissed already
[05:41:58] <Loetmichel> then they discovered that the machines have different fuses and blew the lid
[05:42:03] <Loetmichel> if you know what i mean
[05:53:28] <Tom_L> morning
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[06:01:10] <XXCoder> alaska is 20 degrees hotter than normal for march :(
[06:01:13] <XXCoder> super hot summer coming
[06:06:11] <gloops> same here, 23C - July temps in April
[06:06:46] <XXCoder> i dont look forward to wearing mask for weeks
[06:06:57] <XXCoder> last year sucked.
[06:07:19] <Loetmichel> here in central germany its cloudy and 18°C today
[06:07:30] <Loetmichel> and it was +2°C this morning!
[06:07:48] <Loetmichel> s/morning/night
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[06:35:03] <MrSunshine> hmm, been destroying alot of material these two days as linuxcnc writes arbitary numbers for offsets etc in the tooltable .. anyone experienced that and know a fix?
[06:36:35] <XXCoder> hey
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[06:36:54] <XXCoder> thats weird. isnt there gcode that can assign those values? if so, is there any in your gcode?
[06:36:57] <jthornton> morning
[06:37:03] <XXCoder> hey jt
[06:37:10] <XXCoder> odd problem there maybe you know
[06:39:12] <jthornton> what's that?
[06:39:34] <XXCoder> mr sun linuxcnc is randomly changing offsets
[06:39:41] <XXCoder> at tooltable that is
[06:39:59] <MrSunshine> XXCoder: the code is from fusion, never had issues with that before
[06:40:31] <jthornton> did you check your hard drive for errors?
[06:40:53] <jthornton> oh fusion code...
[06:42:12] <MrSunshine> had the problem at one time before also ,.. but it just disapeared .. now its back again :/
[06:42:31] <MrSunshine> gonna try to force a hd check and reboot and see ... but its strange as f*** :/
[06:50:05] <jthornton> install smartmontools
[06:59:06] <XXCoder> intresting https://playspeedgate.org
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[09:22:16] <gregcnc> Is fixing a pallet jack trivial? there are some cheap on craigslist, but all need "seals"
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[09:26:18] <Loetmichel> gregcnc: depends on the tools and dextirety you have
[09:26:23] <Loetmichel> its quite messy for sure
[09:31:26] <gregcnc> I should have been watching the auctions
[09:35:07] <gregcnc> ah I see there is a seal deep in the bore
[09:37:06] * jesseg 's ears perk up.
[09:37:17] <jesseg> I've got a floor jack that needs new seals :P
[09:37:27] <jesseg> been wondering what kind of torment it is to change them
[09:37:46] <Loetmichel> jesseg: bottle jack?
[09:37:48] <Loetmichel> or what?
[09:38:31] <gregcnc> seal kits for pallet jacks seem to run 50-150USD, seems hardly worth paying 50-100 for a bad pallet jack
[09:40:10] <Loetmichel> seal kits?
[09:40:25] <Loetmichel> its usuall just a bunch of O-rings and square rings
[09:40:28] <jesseg> Loetmichel, yeah they use a bottle jack sideways to push up the arm, but it's a jack with 4 wheels for going under a car
[09:40:30] <Tom_L> gregcnc, what's the cost for a rebuilt one?
[09:40:30] <Loetmichel> nothig that expensive
[09:40:55] <jesseg> but are there huge nuts or special tools needed for dissassem?
[09:41:04] <Loetmichel> jesseg: those? -> http://www.cyrom.org
[09:42:03] <Loetmichel> gregcnc: i meant: i dont get why someone would charge $50 for a kit of a couple o-rings and maybe a paper gasket for the pump
[09:42:48] <gregcnc> rod seals, o-rings blah blah
[09:43:37] <gregcnc> if I knew the sizes I would source individually, but I'm not going to have the time, probably for even a rebuild
[09:44:41] <gregcnc> new chinese pallet jacks are under 300USD
[09:48:53] <Loetmichel> yes
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[09:51:47] <jesseg> Loetmichel, LOL I need a pair of struts for my cube fan front hood too, but no, I'm talking about one of these style: https://www.bendpak.com
[09:52:17] <jesseg> they have a bottle jack built inside, laying on it's side, which pushes up the boom
[09:54:56] <Loetmichel> jesseg: look at the red thing that lifts the BMW
[09:55:05] <Loetmichel> i just had no other picture of it
[09:55:20] <Loetmichel> of my floor jack i mean
[09:55:34] <gregcnc> hah was the lifting pad rusted through?
[09:55:42] <Loetmichel> gregcnc: indeed
[09:55:56] <jesseg> Loetmichel, OH... ok.. I scrolled up and down looking for a floor jack, and didn't see it.. I didn't realize I had to scroll to the right as well :D
[09:56:11] <Loetmichel> sorry for big picture ;)
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[09:57:06] <jesseg> np
[09:57:15] <Loetmichel> gregcnc: could lift the floor jack all the way up without the car moving an inch ;)
[09:57:35] <Loetmichel> hat to put a piece of porch flooring in between to spread the load ;)
[09:57:39] <gregcnc> mine has no rust so far.
[09:58:53] <Loetmichel> gregcnc: that was just a beater car that i bought for 450 eur
[09:59:11] <Loetmichel> to drive a few months while my omega got an engine rework
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[09:59:29] <Loetmichel> it was a rust bucket like no other
[09:59:55] <Loetmichel> it DID fix me up to get a 318i convertible 2 years later though .-)
[10:00:00] <gregcnc> i've had my 97 since 03 I think. we also had a 96 that had the typical e36 rust
[10:00:08] <Loetmichel> and now the 525i touring when my Omega died
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[10:01:20] <Loetmichel> boght that later: http://www.cyrom.org
[10:01:37] <gregcnc> I'd still like to find a later e36 M3
[10:01:38] <Loetmichel> and now drive that: http://www.cyrom.org
[10:02:14] <gregcnc> too bad we don't have many touring here, because I would drive one, no matter what the wife thinks
[10:02:15] <Loetmichel> ... a new (used) E36 convertible is in the works though, as soon as i recover from the expenses for the 525
[10:02:40] <Loetmichel> touring means station wagon, you are aware of that?
[10:02:45] <gregcnc> yes
[10:02:52] <Loetmichel> ok, just checking ;)
[10:03:34] <gregcnc> but E36 M3 prices are going up, if they are celan
[10:05:23] <Loetmichel> <- likes to drive station wagons because i have to drive some military PCs and peripherials across germany the "ASAP" was quite often ;)
[10:05:42] <gregcnc> ask your boss to buy one for teh co
[10:06:01] <Loetmichel> the company owns an E-class from 2004
[10:06:25] <Loetmichel> thanks but no thanks, i take the BMW or the Omega each time over that bucket of lose nuts ;9
[10:08:11] <Loetmichel> drove the E-class to austria a few months ago, arrived there, tried to park, dash goes all red "ESP failure, reduced brake power!" ... i noticed because the pedal went to the floor without resistnace and i narrowly avoided crashing into a pallet stack... ignition off, iginition on, fault gone.
[10:08:24] <Loetmichel> thats not that "confidence boosting" to say the least ;)
[10:09:03] <gregcnc> that's no fun
[10:09:11] <Loetmichel> indeed
[10:09:26] <Loetmichel> especially when you have to drive 800km home the same day ;)
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[11:02:49] <Deejay> oh
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[11:14:43] <gregcnc> Anyone interested in am Emco PC Mill 125, original control, single phase 230V, located outside Chicago?
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[11:50:51] <jthornton> https://youtu.be
[12:00:41] * Tom_L enjoys this youtube moment brought to you by jthornton
[12:01:35] <Tom_L> jthornton, when you make a page like the thread thing, how hard is it to add it into another set like the one above?
[12:02:11] <Tom_L> can you build them separate then add them to something like a tab or menu item or such?
[12:05:20] <Tom_L> good stuff...
[12:08:00] <jthornton> if you open both at the same time you can copy from one to the other if that's what your asking
[12:08:44] <jthornton> I use stacked widgets instead of tabbed widget seems cleaner to me
[12:08:45] <Tom_L> no, if you were building an application and wanted to add the modules together
[12:10:16] <Tom_L> would you add your python code to one main window then copy the widgets across?
[12:11:14] <Tom_L> haven't had much time to spend messin with it
[12:12:28] <jthornton> I use a separate python file for each thing I'm doing like one for g code one for mdi etc then I just import them in the mainwindow.py and call their setup and pass self
[12:12:45] <jthornton> not sure what you mean by copy the widgets across?
[12:12:52] <Tom_L> i'm not either :)
[12:12:57] <jthornton> LOL
[12:13:06] <Tom_L> i need more time on it
[12:13:11] <Tom_L> just not available atm
[12:13:36] <jthornton> so the one I just showed v6 I first did the general layout then added enough pages the did the navigation buttons
[12:13:44] <jthornton> then just started adding content
[12:14:27] <Tom_L> so each one of the left buttons is a page?
[12:15:45] <jthornton> yes the left and right columns are navigation buttons
[12:15:50] <Tom_L> i see that now
[12:16:22] <jthornton> when your in the hole ops page the center column is also navigation buttons
[12:16:47] <jthornton> because there are pages inside the hole ops page
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[12:20:22] <Tom_L> on the readouts, how do you limit the decimals? i noticed on the demo they would run outside the box sometimes depending on what i did
[12:20:38] <Tom_L> i can't recall exactly what it was now..
[12:20:53] <jthornton> '{:.3f}'.format(the_number)
[12:21:14] <Tom_L> oh, on the right side widget pannel?
[12:21:16] <jthornton> which demo?
[12:21:20] <Tom_L> his
[12:22:00] <jthornton> the position readouts are status labels
[12:22:26] <jthornton> mini, brender, probe basic...?
[12:22:36] <Tom_L> https://qtpyvcp.kcjengr.com
[12:22:39] <Tom_L> i think that was it
[12:22:48] <jthornton> oh that's mine
[12:23:01] <jthornton> I should fix that
[12:23:04] <Tom_L> you're just using his page?
[12:23:21] <jthornton> I wrote them, I'm on the team!
[12:23:27] <Tom_L> i went thru it kinda quick
[12:23:30] <Tom_L> :)
[12:26:48] -!- jelly has parted #linuxcnc
[12:27:00] <Tom_L> that would be fun if i had more time
[12:27:43] <jthornton> I hear that... I need to get going and get some work done
[12:28:15] <jthornton> weather.gov show a flood watch through Sunday...
[12:28:32] <Tom_L> we didn't get as much as they said
[12:28:35] <jthornton> I think their page is broken
[12:29:16] <Tom_L> i use intellicast but i don't like their new pages
[12:29:48] <jthornton> ah you can now set the format for positions in the yml file
[12:35:09] <Tom_L> new qtpyvcp update?
[12:36:07] <jthornton> or I didn't know about it when I wrote the tutorial lol
[12:36:18] <Tom_L> i wouldn't know the difference :)
[12:36:48] <Tom_L> i doubt i'll ever learn python
[12:37:07] <Tom_L> i did a tiny bit of oops but nothing i ended up using
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[13:20:45] <gloops> hmm, just confirmed my suspicions about pewter melting on kitchen cooker hob - it does easily
[13:21:08] <gregcnc> what kind of soup is that for?
[13:21:31] <gloops> last course lol
[13:22:26] <gloops> so..in theory i can carve stuff like fancy hinges or catches on the router from wood, polish them up, then take a silicone mold
[13:22:42] <gloops> make my own bespoke fittings
[13:22:47] <gloops> also lettering
[13:23:41] <gloops> or just carve an aluminium mold direct
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[14:00:50] <FinboySlick> syyl_: Where's our first episode of the deburring podcast?
[14:03:01] -!- Sabotender has joined #linuxcnc
[14:07:56] <syyl_> lol
[14:08:02] <syyl_> i dont think that that will be a thing
[14:13:33] <gloops> Wrought cast iron suffolk cottage latch + fleur de lys door gate tee hinges < wrought cast iron, interesting
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[14:22:13] <_abc_> Hi. Does linuxcnc work with UC100 usb to parallel adapter, made for UCCNC software by cncdrive.com ?
[14:22:46] <_abc_> And I am asking about the genuine ones, made in Hungary, not fakes. Ref: http://www.forum.cncdrive.com
[14:22:58] <_abc_> UC100 has a config and drivers for windows + Mach3 and 4
[14:23:04] <_abc_> Among other things. No mention of linuxcnc.
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[14:26:16] <Rab> _abc_, I do not believe so. LinuxCNC expects real-time execution of steps, and USB has unavoidable overhead which introduces unpredictable latency.
[14:26:25] -!- CaptHindsight has joined #linuxcnc
[14:26:49] <CaptHindsight> real time does not work over USB is why it does not work with LCNC
[14:26:53] <_abc_> I keep hearing that. UCCNC is a Windows based cnc program like Mach3 and it does support specifically that interface and others.
[14:27:31] <_abc_> Realtime works fine with usb assuming the correct paradigm is used and the correct drivers. Cue live audio capture and reproduction, dropless, cue video the same.
[14:27:51] <_abc_> I keep finding people who repeat the same "information" from the internet. Please cease doing that.
[14:27:53] <CaptHindsight> if you want an LPT port with LCNC gste a PCI/e to LPT card
[14:28:06] <_abc_> It is not a lpt port, it happens to use a lpt pinout.
[14:28:25] <_abc_> Again, on topic: Is UC100 (original from Hungary) known to work with linuxcnc?
[14:28:28] <CaptHindsight> so whats the actual problem or question?
[14:28:33] <_abc_> ^
[14:28:36] <CaptHindsight> NO
[14:29:07] <gloops> how about non-Hungarian ones?
[14:29:18] <CaptHindsight> hungarian phrase books
[14:29:18] <_abc_> The forum thread I linked explains the non-Hungarian ones.
[14:29:35] <_abc_> cncdrive.com seems to be based in .hu
[14:29:56] <CaptHindsight> USB is not real time unless your real time is really slow
[14:29:59] <gloops> i dont know, im just a humble usr
[14:30:52] <CaptHindsight> maybe Mesa can put an atomic clock in a USB FPGA and then we can have LCNC over USB
[14:31:59] <_abc_> You don't need an atomic clock. There are usb oscilloscopes and usb video capture and reproduction (simultaneous) cards which work great in very real time.
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[14:32:10] <CaptHindsight> but I want an atomic clock
[14:32:16] -!- serp has quit [Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat]
[14:32:19] <CaptHindsight> I don't HAVE to have one
[14:32:27] * _abc_ drops a kg of radioactive Cs on CaptHindsight
[14:32:38] <_abc_> There, count the photons yourself, you wanted diy, you got it.
[14:33:00] <CaptHindsight> I don't want to see any of your photons, emitted or reflected
[14:33:05] <CaptHindsight> nothing personal
[14:33:09] <_abc_> CaptHindsight: ntp gives you access to the best atomic clocks there are, if you are hell bent to get a second best one, get a Rb one from ebay, used, and get it calibrated
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[14:33:56] <_abc_> Anyway, this is the "real" UC100 page https://www.cncdrive.com fyi
[14:34:07] <CaptHindsight> do us a favor and rewrite LCNC to work with USB LPT adapters please
[14:34:46] <_abc_> I am telling you the second and last time, that is NOT a lpt adapter. It uses a DB25 and is "compatible" with lpt digital pins that's all.
[14:35:02] <CaptHindsight> and while you are at it move the motion control to STM32's that are under $10 so we can use LCNC on Android
[14:35:16] <_abc_> There's a DSP cpu in the UC100 doing the realtime stuff.
[14:35:23] <gloops> so the question isnt 'does linuxcnc cnc work on usb' its 'why doesnt linuxcnc work on usb'
[14:35:25] <Rab> _abc_, do you promise it's the last time?
[14:35:39] <_abc_> Only if CaptHindsight stops.
[14:35:45] <CaptHindsight> and I want a USB to LPT adapter that works with LCNC, I'm telling for the number of times that I don't recall
[14:36:17] <_abc_> Well, if someone gets cncdrive.com to publish a linux driver for UC100, it will work.
[14:36:26] <CaptHindsight> LCNC does work over USB though, it just depends on what you mean by work
[14:36:33] <_abc_> Apparently it uses some encrypted serial number stuff to prevent use by "others" (China)
[14:38:13] <CaptHindsight> it's been 12 years since someone asked about USB to LPT that I recall and nobody wants to write the patch to do it
[14:38:53] <_abc_> Delete "lpt" from your thoughts. The lpt is not up to speed to generate decent stepper or servo outputs nowadays.
[14:39:09] <CaptHindsight> but I love LPT
[14:39:17] <gloops> me too
[14:39:29] <CaptHindsight> what did LPT do to you?
[14:39:29] <_abc_> I have problems even with ancient 10 year old Chinese mills, they need 640 pulses/mm, they go like the wind with the supplied self contained pendant, and crawl with lpt and linuxcnc
[14:40:00] <_abc_> lpt only serves as transport paradigm in the UC100, the pc sends data to it, and the dsp re-interprets it and issues the real commands to the hw
[14:40:38] <CaptHindsight> hey lets come with all the zilion ways we can make LCNC work over USB?
[14:40:49] <CaptHindsight> you start listing the first million
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[14:41:07] <CaptHindsight> I jump in later after I go to the bathroom
[14:41:09] <gregcnc> then don't call it LPT, maybe DB-25?
[14:41:21] <_abc_> "lpt pinout compatible" driver
[14:41:38] <_abc_> It can be Centronics or DB25 or IDC 2x13
[14:42:13] <_abc_> In fact, lpt is so dead, you need to go to a wrecker to find a printer with a lpt interface connector on it.
[14:42:29] <CaptHindsight> clarifications aren't hipster
[14:42:57] * _abc_ still hunts and buys ASROCK and other PC main boards which have native "lpt" interface since he is stuck with a lot of legacy programmers, and other controllers.
[14:43:04] <CaptHindsight> you're supposed to hijack a common tech term and reuse it for your own
[14:43:36] <_abc_> CaptHindsight: Copy Microsoft[tm] LPT? Hey, I think they patented that business practice a long time ago.
[14:43:46] <gregcnc> well yesterday I went to the ford dealer to buy a chevy and they weren't having any of it
[14:44:00] <CaptHindsight> zealots
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[14:45:45] <_abc_> https://forum.linuxcnc.org look who's talking
[14:46:07] <Thomer> hey all - newbie here
[14:46:32] <Thomer> trying to do the basic stuff - setting up for the first time - anyone have a minute to assist?
[14:47:03] <_abc_> Can someone explain in 10 words the "new" joint thing the 2.8 still nags me about vs 2.7 ?
[14:47:10] <CaptHindsight> Thomer: ask away
[14:47:42] <Thomer> Taigturn2000AB Mesa card with no daughter boards
[14:47:57] <Thomer> set up with the G540x2
[14:48:04] <Thomer> not sure how to set the I/O connectors
[14:48:40] <Thomer> tried to find the equivalent from Mach3 but it made little sense
[14:48:59] <CaptHindsight> Thomer: which Mesa card?
[14:49:23] <Thomer> 6i25
[14:49:42] <Thomer> (so set up like a 5i25)
[14:50:19] <CaptHindsight> there is a 2x G540 config for that
[14:50:31] <Thomer> google has failed me
[14:50:48] <CaptHindsight> G540X2 I'll try to find the howto
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[14:53:42] <CaptHindsight> Tom_L: JT-Shop don't one of you have a step by step howto on flashing firmware somwhere?
[14:54:02] <CaptHindsight> https://mesaus.com
[14:54:13] <Rab> Based on this analysis, looks like the UC-100 is exactly like a proprietary GRBL: https://wiki.cnc.xyz
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[14:55:08] <_abc_> That is very plausible except I am 100% sure the original UC100 uses a Pic dsp cpu.
[14:55:16] <Thomer> hmmm yes i did all that flashy stuff
[14:55:32] <Thomer> I am having trouble with the PncConf - maybe i wasn't clear
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[14:56:57] <CaptHindsight> Thomer: what do you mean by set the IO connectors?
[14:57:13] <_abc_> Rab: so yes it is a marlin/grbl/whatever stuffed into a LPT connector shell, with USB to the host, and DB25 lpt compatible outputs. Also, it can look like a parallel port to the host for Mach3 setup purposes.
[14:57:35] <Thomer> so when going through the Pncconf, you get to a page where it asks what firmware you are using
[14:57:51] <Thomer> then there are tabs for I/O connector - and you assign x-home or whatever
[14:57:56] <Thomer> idk what to do there
[14:58:35] <CaptHindsight> Thomer: do you have Home and Limit switches?
[14:58:53] <Thomer> no
[14:59:05] <CaptHindsight> then leave those blank
[14:59:12] <Thomer> sure
[14:59:57] <Thomer> does it really matter what pins i assign to what then? It does give some direction - like some are PWM gen and such
[15:00:16] <Thomer> if so, then maybe i'm just looking for direction on what is necessary
[15:00:19] <CaptHindsight> _abc_: I wonder what signals Mach3 sends to that LPT-ish board?
[15:01:25] <CaptHindsight> Thomer: besides the 2x G540's, what are you connecting?
[15:01:42] <Thomer> hmmm not sure what you're asking
[15:01:45] <Rab> _abc_, so the question becomes: why doesn't LinuxCNC support the whole class of deterministic real time peripherals like UC-100|GRBL, and the answer is usually that if you are doing real time in a peripheral and just need a dumb g-code sender, then why do you need LinuxCNC?
[15:02:06] <_abc_> CaptHindsight: it sends lpt signals, but there's a DLL on Windows whihch then takes over and sends motion control data instead of step and dir pulses
[15:02:11] <CaptHindsight> _abc_: does Mach3 send it Step and Dir signals, or?
[15:02:36] <_abc_> See above CaptHindsight
[15:02:45] <CaptHindsight> _abc_: ah yeah, LCNC doesn't have that for your LPT-ish thingy
[15:02:59] <_abc_> Rab: so there never was an attempt to split processing into high level interpreter/planner and low level "executor"
[15:03:02] <_abc_> ?
[15:03:25] <CaptHindsight> LCNC does it all in the PC
[15:03:30] <_abc_> If so, why not?
[15:03:49] <CaptHindsight> _abc_: you or others did write this yet
[15:04:07] <CaptHindsight> I'd say quit whining and give it a go
[15:04:34] <CaptHindsight> or write some open source 4+ axis CAM or get LCNC to work with Vulkan
[15:04:42] <Rab> _abc_, the UC-100 apparently does trajectory planning onboard. Why would you daisy-chain two planners?
[15:04:59] <CaptHindsight> i don't think he wants to
[15:05:27] <_abc_> Rab: because one would deal with parsing and ui and large disks and logging and whatever, and the other would do just realtime using a cooked pipeline of motion commands.
[15:05:30] <CaptHindsight> he just wants LCNC to no do what it does now and do what Mach3 does with his LPT-ish thingy
[15:05:39] <CaptHindsight> no/not
[15:06:04] <_abc_> Rab: essentially what linucnc's "realtime" task does right now, moved into the usb device.
[15:06:07] <gloops> whats the problem with using mach3 to do it?
[15:06:09] <CaptHindsight> _abc_: sounds like a fantastic program
[15:06:34] <CaptHindsight> i wonder who will actually write vs talk about it
[15:06:37] <CaptHindsight> ?
[15:06:43] <_abc_> Btw linuxcnc's own rt-usb project is doing exactly this I think and also the fancy interface controller cards supported by linuxcnc do this?
[15:07:04] <_abc_> The ones selectable by the setup program.
[15:07:37] <_abc_> So, recap: a) it can be done by usb, usb is not the problem, b) there is no support currently for UC100 interfaces and none is planned. Ok
[15:07:37] <CaptHindsight> Thomer: sorry, do you have just the 2 G540's connected to the 6i25?
[15:08:11] <Rab> _abc_, which rt-usb project is this now
[15:08:30] <CaptHindsight> _abc_: if you write it please be sure to support closed loop for things like servos and rigid tapping
[15:08:57] <_abc_> Rab: see bottom posting by andypugh and link https://forum.linuxcnc.org
[15:09:14] <CaptHindsight> _abc_: and pick better hardware than a *duino or Teensy
[15:09:37] <_abc_> CaptHindsight: no kidding
[15:10:03] <CaptHindsight> _abc_: you'd be surprised by the kooks that bring this up in here
[15:10:25] <_abc_> I would not be, I work in electronics, make projects, I meet the kooks in real life.
[15:10:35] <Rab> _abc_, how is that "linuxcnc's own rt-usb project"? It doesn't even seem to exist.
[15:10:39] <Thomer> CaptHindsight: I have it working like a generic parport
[15:11:01] <_abc_> Been there, done it all. People walk in with a nest of wires with an arduino in the middle and ask it I can make it work since it almost works, just "reboots/freezes now and then"
[15:11:16] <_abc_> Rab: well it was a beginning then and stopped. Maybe it will restart.
[15:11:20] <Thomer> CaptHindsight: Connor was asking about it yesterday bc i had the wrong stuff flashed to it. I decided to cut out the middleman today
[15:11:43] <CaptHindsight> https://www.geckodrive.com
[15:12:37] <Connor> Thomer: Oh. Hey
[15:12:48] <_abc_> Sarah Connor? :) Kidding.
[15:13:34] <Connor> _abc_: Um. No. Connor MacLeod
[15:13:43] <Connor> from highlander. :)
[15:13:52] <_abc_> [that was a Terminator movie reference just to close the matter]
[15:14:25] <_abc_> Rab: https://www.rtai.org this suggests something last moved there in 2017
[15:14:44] <CaptHindsight> if Macloud fought the Terminator who would win?
[15:14:52] <_abc_> Rab: and "rtnet" suggests the ethernet attached controllers (industrial ethernet extensions?) may be more up to date.
[15:14:57] <_abc_> CaptHindsight: Alien.
[15:15:09] <CaptHindsight> they already did that
[15:15:26] <Rab> _abc_, it does suggest that there was some effort to do something with USB in 2006.
[15:15:47] <CaptHindsight> USB is soooooo bbbbbborrring
[15:15:50] <_abc_> Rab: yes, but, moving on, rtNET suggests it's the ethernet attached hw branch that developed on
[15:16:12] <_abc_> Rab: and that is good because among others the maker of UC100 also has Ethernet attached interfaces.
[15:16:29] <CaptHindsight> RTAI on x86 works but people find the compiling way too difficult
[15:16:40] <_abc_> Rab: and others do too. I recently noted the BBlack's cpu has these Ethernet Industrial Extensions baked into the silicon too
[15:16:56] <_abc_> ti.com has some papers on this.
[15:17:13] <_abc_> Industrial Ethernet Extensions support Modbus Profibus and other realtime protocols.
[15:17:42] <_abc_> Excuse me for a bit, I need to research linux live-boot
[15:19:58] <Rab> I'm comfortable with the dichotomy of "cheap/free, use hardware parport" and "not so cheap, but awesome Mesa FPGA ethernet peripheral with drivers and everything". It's hard to get excited about hacking LinuxCNC up to use some $129 closed-source PIC-in-a-box from some outfit that's preoccupied with Mach3.
[15:19:59] <CaptHindsight> https://sourceforge.net
[15:20:00] <Tom_L> CaptHindsight, http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81
[15:20:30] <Tom_L> also in the wiki
[15:20:31] <CaptHindsight> _abc_: Hardware emcmot? follow this thread
[15:21:01] <CaptHindsight> Tom_L: ends up he did that but he has more questions
[15:21:48] <CaptHindsight> Rab: unless they supply LCNC with a patch for Vulkan at the same time
[15:21:57] <CaptHindsight> or open 4+ axis CAM
[15:21:59] <_abc_> Rab: I mostly agree but it was worth asking if someone dunnit and also to get through the wall of "fact" [6~repeaters
[15:22:10] <_abc_> I mean it was worth the discussion. Thanks.
[15:22:13] <Rab> CaptHindsight, I thought you had that under control.
[15:22:33] <CaptHindsight> Rab: funder didn't fund
[15:22:45] <CaptHindsight> all talk, no action
[15:22:47] <Rab> A story older than time itself.
[15:24:07] <CaptHindsight> the wiki needs a "why not break up LCNC to work with M$, Android and over USB"
[15:24:39] <CaptHindsight> answer: Why not you do it?
[15:25:34] <Rab> _abc_, I'm gonna double down on real-time over USB being difficult or impossible. You understand that the UC-100 is not doing real-time communication over USB, correct?
[15:26:12] <Connor> okay. So flag on the play with the g540 drivers.. it has pin 3 as a stepgen pin.. we need that on pin 2 and direction on pin 3
[15:26:32] <CaptHindsight> _abc_: i don't get the attraction to using hardware a few $$ less than Mesa when the electronics are ~2% of the entire machine cost
[15:26:59] <Tom_L> Connor, swap them?
[15:27:09] <Connor> Yup.
[15:27:30] <Connor> I don't have pncconf running in front of me at the moment.. helping Thomer over chat.
[15:27:41] <Tom_L> oh
[15:27:50] <Tom_L> just walked in...
[15:27:55] <Connor> but, pin3 is pwn and we need it to be step.
[15:28:05] <Tom_L> a mesa config?
[15:28:06] <CaptHindsight> are those pins selectable on the G540?
[15:28:28] <CaptHindsight> surprised that a config would need more configuring later
[15:28:34] <Tom_L> i've never used a g540
[15:28:40] <CaptHindsight> same here
[15:28:44] <Connor> Ditto.
[15:28:49] <CaptHindsight> doesn't JT have them?
[15:28:54] <Tom_L> i dunno
[15:28:57] <Tom_L> g540?
[15:29:03] <CaptHindsight> yes
[15:29:04] <Tom_L> i think all he sells is mesa cards
[15:29:08] <Tom_L> but i could be wrong
[15:29:15] <CaptHindsight> or uses them
[15:29:31] <Tom_L> pretty sure he uses g203v or better
[15:29:57] <Tom_L> that's what i've got
[15:31:10] <CaptHindsight> Mesa cards $200, what price should I figure for something lower cost and maker approved?
[15:31:22] <CaptHindsight> $125?
[15:32:00] <CaptHindsight> ok so I save $75 and spend 2000 hours writing a fork of LCNC
[15:32:07] <Tom_L> for what mesa card?
[15:32:18] <Tom_L> i'm using the 7i90
[15:32:29] <Tom_L> and a daughter card
[15:32:32] <CaptHindsight> whatever expensive ones people seem to want to avoid
[15:32:49] <Tom_L> ethernet are cool but require preempt-rt
[15:33:04] <Tom_L> 7i90 does 3 interfaces
[15:33:27] <Tom_L> parallel spi and i forget the other one.. serial maybe?
[15:33:28] <CaptHindsight> is RT patching the kernel lots of work for those wanting to save $75?
[15:33:51] <Tom_L> you need better hardware for RT too
[15:34:04] <CaptHindsight> after all they seem to want to spend 100's of hours forking LCNC
[15:34:14] <Tom_L> andy is trying to port RTAI to stretch
[15:34:20] <Tom_L> not sure how that's goin
[15:34:41] <CaptHindsight> what kernel is in Stretch?
[15:34:46] <Tom_L> nobody's ever happy with what's curently available
[15:34:51] <Tom_L> preempt-rt
[15:34:59] <Tom_L> or at least you add it in
[15:35:09] <Tom_L> depending if you build it or get the iso
[15:35:14] <Tom_L> i added it
[15:35:15] <CaptHindsight> I mean what kernel version number?
[15:35:22] <Tom_L> oh i have no idea
[15:35:54] <CaptHindsight> we wrote all the support for RTAI for 6-7 years
[15:36:17] <Tom_L> 4.9 LTS?
[15:36:21] <CaptHindsight> stopped about 1-2 years ago
[15:36:24] <Tom_L> google said that btw
[15:37:04] <CaptHindsight> 3.16.52 was the latest when we stopped
[15:37:47] <CaptHindsight> have a link to what Andy is doing?
[15:44:19] <Tom_L> no
[15:44:47] <CaptHindsight> I'll ask when I bump into him
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[15:46:49] <CaptHindsight> andy could build a 3.16.52 RTAI kernel for debian in a few minutes
[15:47:16] <CaptHindsight> so I'm not sure what he's actually doing
[15:48:39] <Tom_L> <andypugh> And then try to get an RTAI one working. (My latest attempt to make a 4.9.80 RTAI kernel failed, again)
[15:49:45] <Tom_L> <andypugh> I tried building an RTAI kernel on the Preempt-RT LiveCD install.
[15:49:45] <Tom_L> <andypugh> But it doesn’t really boot.
[15:49:45] <Tom_L> <andypugh> (It boots far enough to tell me that it is dumping core)
[15:51:38] <CaptHindsight> if Andy just wants a working kernel he should just use https://github.com for 3.16.52
[15:52:15] <CaptHindsight> looks like he's using rtai-org beta stuff and he is in for lots of pain
[15:54:12] <Rab> http://www.forum.cncdrive.com
[15:54:22] <Rab> Who wants to support these goons?
[15:55:30] <CaptHindsight> not goons, Chinese, they live by a different philosophy than what's typical in the west
[15:56:23] <CaptHindsight> if you can't tell the difference than what is the problem?
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[15:58:06] <Rab> I am referring to CNCdrive, who I guess are Magyar.
[15:58:22] <FinboySlick> syyl_: Admitedly it might get old pretty fast. But I say you would make *millions* on a 'hand-scraping ASMR' series.
[15:58:27] <Rab> Looks like they've been taking tips from FTDI.
[15:58:34] <CaptHindsight> on one hand you have this
[15:58:50] <SpeedEvil> FinboySlick: keith fenner
[15:58:59] <SpeedEvil> ^rucker
[15:59:03] <CaptHindsight> and on the other you have people where cheapest is the only thing that matters
[15:59:13] <CaptHindsight> they tend to meet
[15:59:21] <_abc_> Rab: "realtime" needs an exact definition as in latency and timing and speed. Let's split this: a) usb is able, with buffering in the slave device, to sustain 10MBps data streams without any drops. Such as video. b) there is no such thing as zero latency from input to output. A definition of latency from input to output is needed. USB streaming similar to before is able to get the "delay" between a real
[15:59:27] <_abc_> input and it being delivered to the application down to under 2msec and probably 1msec.
[16:00:05] <_abc_> The rest is "details". There is no point in discussing this without numbers.
[16:00:14] <CaptHindsight> you have to find projects that nobody wants to copy
[16:00:23] <CaptHindsight> RTAI for instance :)
[16:00:31] <_abc_> The "latency" of a parport (lpt) is around 500nsec at best assuming asm threads uninterruptible etc. In reality it is much worse.
[16:00:34] <Tom_L> then they get popular and copied :)
[16:01:05] <CaptHindsight> when i want cheap i give the design to the Chinese
[16:01:09] <_abc_> latency between an output being driven and an input sensing and reporting same to the software
[16:01:22] <CaptHindsight> when i want it to work I build it myself
[16:01:33] <Tom_L> you're not cheap?
[16:01:50] <Tom_L> i work for free for myself :)
[16:02:01] <Rab> _abc_, 10MBps is a non-sequitur since that has nothing to do with latency. HDMI pushes a lot of data, but often with latency plain to human faculties.
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[16:02:45] <CaptHindsight> I'm on the pricier side of Chinese
[16:03:28] <CaptHindsight> fork USB and call it RSB, realtime serial bus
[16:03:57] <CaptHindsight> give the designs to the Chinese, sit back wait for cheap stuff that almost works
[16:04:50] <_abc_> Rab: yes hdmi has huuge buffers. Usb buffers tend to be smaller, thus, faster.
[16:05:17] <_abc_> Anyway I am intrigued by the Industrial Ethernet Extensions which should exist in BBlack firmware somewhere.
[16:05:34] <CaptHindsight> oh just give them their open loop steppers over USB already
[16:06:08] <_abc_> CaptHindsight: are you high?
[16:06:26] <_abc_> Adjust the dose, higher or lower, anyhting is better than the noise you have been making till now.
[16:06:36] <Rab> _abc_, I believe the real difficulty is not raw latency--all electronic systems have latency, even if it's the speed of light--but whether the latency is predictable. My understanding is that while USB is fast, it's not predictable.
[16:06:47] <CaptHindsight> none of these users do anything with precision anyway, they just want cheap
[16:07:26] <CaptHindsight> _abc_: just tired of the whining
[16:07:27] <rmu> typical usb implementations suck and the design (isochronous transfers) is problematic for CNC stuff
[16:07:49] <_abc_> Rab: I think a 1:1 host to slave USB is predictable in timing, with quite low jitter, from what I read.
[16:07:52] <CaptHindsight> what is the actual problem?
[16:08:01] <_abc_> Rab: 90% of incertitudes come from competing devices on the bus.
[16:08:07] <CaptHindsight> time and funds to write this or how to write this?
[16:08:12] <CaptHindsight> or all the above?
[16:08:52] <rmu> usb host controllers may have unpredictable timing, depending on chipset and POM
[16:09:03] <_abc_> Rab: Industrial Ethernet Extensions work along similar principles, the "ethernet" is actually moved on from send and pray (for no collisions) to something much more time-slot like, perhaps a reincarnation of ATM.
[16:09:27] <_abc_> This is what I gather from it till now.
[16:10:50] <_abc_> Next they'll reimplement ARINC 429 nets over ethernet :) Back to the future.
[16:11:02] <_abc_> https://en.wikipedia.org
[16:11:07] <CaptHindsight> how about having the monitor/display, keyboard and mouse over USB?
[16:11:09] <_abc_> Note there are much faster versions out there
[16:11:18] <_abc_> CaptHindsight: old hat, already exists.
[16:11:29] <CaptHindsight> then the motion controller can be over USB near the motors
[16:11:52] <CaptHindsight> so we need new hats beacuse?
[16:12:05] <CaptHindsight> newer is more better?
[16:12:27] <FinboySlick> SpeedEvil: Watched those, want more.
[16:12:29] <_abc_> (MIL-STD-1553 being 1MHz)
[16:12:32] <CaptHindsight> why come?
[16:12:55] <Rab> _abc_, so instead of the current requirement for a magic motherboard with decent latency and a parallel port, your LinuxCNC/UC-100 user will need to somehow ensure that they have a dedicated USB controller with no bus contention? Doesn't sound like much of a win from a UX perspective. I forsee much support for laptop users who don't realize their touchpad and bluetooth are sharing the same bus as
[16:13:02] <Rab> their UC-100 port.
[16:13:19] <_abc_> Rab: er no, the UC-100 has it's own dsp and buffering, no need for special things there
[16:13:38] <CaptHindsight> nah, you make the USB connector that goes to the UC-100 bigger and different color
[16:13:44] <_abc_> But for general USB based direct machine control, assuming the end stop loop is closed in the slave, options do exist imo
[16:14:00] <Tom_L> get this all worked out an implemented by the time i return... mkay?
[16:14:09] <CaptHindsight> I'd make a UC-100 that doesn't even need a PC
[16:14:50] <CaptHindsight> UC-100 with BT
[16:15:09] <CaptHindsight> works with Linux, M$,andoid, ios and OS2
[16:15:38] <_abc_> Funny you mention BT, I have a gcode sender for BT enabled 3d printers on my phone
[16:15:57] <_abc_> Of course it is a gcode sender, the receiver is typically a bt enabled Marlin version.
[16:16:01] <_abc_> Never used it as such.
[16:17:30] <CaptHindsight> even better would be "just think of a Yoda" and it's already printing
[16:18:27] <CaptHindsight> so maybe a STM32 for each axis and then some "bus" for them to signal feedback to each other
[16:18:35] <Rab> I'm pretty sure Bre Pettis would've had us there if he hadn't been beaten down by open sores zealots.
[16:18:45] <CaptHindsight> so they can synchronize motion for each axis
[16:19:13] <CaptHindsight> and E-stop, Limit etc
[16:21:15] <gloops> so i had a couple of glasses of wine and told a woman on marketplace i was coming to buy/collect her husbands machine on saturday...100 miles away
[16:21:30] <gloops> ni why i did that
[16:21:40] <Rab> gloops, sounds like you were desperate.
[16:21:55] <gloops> i was desperate to type maybe
[16:22:00] <Rab> Or she was.
[16:22:06] <CaptHindsight> so rather than a single x86 or ARM processor synchronizing motion you'd have 3-6+ STM32 (or similar) each sending commands to a motor and also signaling each other with position info
[16:23:04] <gloops> hopefully someone will gazump me
[16:23:15] <CaptHindsight> signaling over some bus (wire thingy)
[16:23:45] <Rab> gloops, what kind of machine?
[16:24:12] * SpeedEvil wishes LASER interferometers were cheaper.
[16:24:24] <gloops> a spindle moulder Rab
[16:24:29] <gloops> manual
[16:24:57] <SpeedEvil> just totally decouple the measure part from the machine part.
[16:25:50] <Rab> CaptHindsight, I believe that is a thing that exists. As far as open source, I believe MIT had a research project along those lines.
[16:26:34] <CaptHindsight> not a big deal, you just have to write it
[16:26:41] <CaptHindsight> work out the bugs
[16:27:09] <Rab> CaptHindsight, I like using code, not writing code. And I don't want to pay for it, either.
[16:27:30] <CaptHindsight> maybe call it DLCNC
[16:27:35] <CaptHindsight> I like money
[16:28:08] <CaptHindsight> knowledge is good to
[16:28:25] <CaptHindsight> and experience can come in handy
[16:29:13] <CaptHindsight> if devs didn't need to get paid, eat, bathroom breaks etc this would be easy
[16:30:55] <gloops> so write a script that writes scripts
[16:32:02] <Deejay> gn8
[16:32:10] <Rab> CaptHindsight, I believe I am thinking of "Gestalt": https://3dprinting.com
[16:32:15] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: competent coders seem to be pretty scarce too these days. Seems all we have is web 'programmers' now who get a glazed look in their eyes as soon as you mention words like 'mutex' or 'memory allocation'.
[16:32:30] <_abc_> CaptHindsight: Propeller from Parallax has iirc 9 or more independent RISC cores.
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[16:33:08] <XXCoder> fin most competent programmers is off working well paid jobs
[16:33:08] <_abc_> https://en.wikipedia.org 8
[16:33:39] <Rab> Another of many, many completely obtuse websites obliquely referring to "Gestalt" motion control technology: http://archive.monograph.io
[16:33:59] <CaptHindsight> _abc_: I recall working some chips with 64+ cores (not bits)
[16:34:07] <_abc_> Cavium
[16:34:09] <_abc_> MIPS
[16:34:20] <_abc_> Used in among other things Juniper boxes
[16:34:53] <_abc_> Cavium Networks. The MIPS cores went out, they now make multi cored ARM cpus for the same purpose(s)
[16:35:03] <CaptHindsight> so does you want multiple controllers or just one with multiple cores?
[16:35:06] <FinboySlick> XXCoder: Yeah. I just worry that the pool isn't being replenished.
[16:35:32] <_abc_> CaptHindsight: I don't want anyhting now, just talking. The Propeller is a nice part for a motion controller with multiple channels for obvious reasons
[16:35:32] <CaptHindsight> FinboySlick: it is but with cesspool water
[16:37:08] <CaptHindsight> FinboySlick: I've noticed around these here parts is when they ask for a Linux dev they really mean someone familiar with graphical tools for configuring Linux severs like cpanel
[16:37:20] <_abc_> hehe
[16:37:46] <_abc_> CaptHindsight: recently I tried to help some people who had a vps and the moron admin gave me cpanel access instead of root.
[16:37:53] <_abc_> This led to discussions :)
[16:38:04] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: Yeah... We bought a windows shop a couple years ago and I have to say things aren't improving in Microsoft-land either.
[16:38:24] <_abc_> Such as, why are they paying for vps when they get just cpanel hosting (10:1 price difference) and similar. The problem was quickly resolved after that.
[16:38:58] <_abc_> "bought a windows shop"? Uhh. What does that mean?
[16:39:29] <FinboySlick> We bought a company who does windows solutions. ASP.NET web sites, C#, etc.
[16:41:55] <FinboySlick> Nobody's competent at infrastructure, so everybody's moving to the cloud... Which means nobody's able to build skill managing infrastructure.
[16:42:17] <FinboySlick> And then you'll end up with 3 companies running the world.
[16:42:18] <CaptHindsight> wanted: Linux developer with M$ experience veritas, cloudsphere, monkeyshine etc
[16:42:48] <FinboySlick> "Where's the button to have a firewall."
[16:42:54] <CaptHindsight> hah, yeah, cloud based security admin :)
[16:43:27] <CaptHindsight> the safest screen doors for your submarine available anywhere
[16:43:42] <FinboySlick> It's incredibly scary the number of businesses that simply turn off as soon as their internet connection drops.
[16:44:32] <FinboySlick> "But it's in the cloud, it's better." Yeah... Until you can't reach it anymore.
[16:44:46] <_abc_> FinboySlick: it's even more scary that 99% of mom and pop shops AND LAWYER OFFICES have that golden candid look on their faces when you ask "when did you last make a backup of your server"? This, after having been in business in the same location/config for 10 years or more.
[16:44:49] <CaptHindsight> oh that's the advice that #netfilter "experts" give out
[16:45:20] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: Easy there. I am a netfilter expert ;)
[16:45:29] <_abc_> FinboySlick: I had that candid look in front of me 3 times since the beginning of the year, all people I know and have warned. A 4th is cooking, not backed up android dying.
[16:45:32] <XXCoder> i read about one business that simply closed doors after they found out "backups" was blank
[16:45:44] <_abc_> XXCoder: no choice.
[16:46:11] <XXCoder> apparently their it guy found a way to speed up backups. oh and its test mode which does not actually store files
[16:46:13] <CaptHindsight> most ports should be left open since you don't know what a surprise app and port might be used, for reasons outside of you needing to know
[16:46:42] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: they had the safest data
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[16:46:50] <CaptHindsight> safe from even themselves
[16:46:52] <_abc_> CaptHindsight: blocking ports is so useless now that people auto install search bars and trojans.
[16:46:55] <FinboySlick> Yeah. That windows shop we bought got hit by a crypto-attack not long after we acquired them.
[16:47:57] <CaptHindsight> so are firewalls with factory installed backdoors
[16:48:11] <XXCoder> with fancy hardcoded admin
[16:48:18] <CaptHindsight> you want deep packet inspection.....
[16:48:25] <XXCoder> hardcoded blank password
[16:48:41] <FinboySlick> Lots of pretty high-end Cisco gear has been found to have hardcoded admin accounts in them.
[16:48:50] <CaptHindsight> preferably by porn staved teens under the impression that deep inside there are naked women looking for you
[16:49:12] <CaptHindsight> or men
[16:49:44] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: Thank god you aren't Canadian. You'd be compelled by law to mention all 78 other official genders.
[16:49:55] <CaptHindsight> oh the 78
[16:50:25] <CaptHindsight> men women and 78+, standard boiler plate
[16:50:34] <XXCoder> why? just make it "there is people of gender you find appealing hidden in it!"
[16:50:44] <FinboySlick> Well, technically, they're 78 official pronouns. I'm not sure on the number of genders.
[16:50:50] <CaptHindsight> hey what about gender free people
[16:51:01] <CaptHindsight> what yha gots against them?
[16:51:17] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight fighting for the oppressed!
[16:51:21] <XXCoder> give those different movations
[16:51:24] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: well you are correct
[16:51:37] <CaptHindsight> i should have just said naked
[16:51:45] <CaptHindsight> things
[16:52:04] <FinboySlick> What about never-nudes like Tobias Funke?
[16:52:17] <XXCoder> so youre saying gender neters is interesting on hving sex with things?
[16:52:35] <CaptHindsight> or inanimate objects that don't generally wear anything but aren't naked
[16:52:51] <FinboySlick> It's always amusing trying to apply logic to collectivist thinking. Futile, but amusing.
[16:53:22] <CaptHindsight> makes for a good comedy sketch in the right hands
[16:54:41] <CaptHindsight> AI firewalls
[16:55:18] <FinboySlick> Well, work day is nearly over but that sure was a fun way to end the day.
[16:55:27] <CaptHindsight> checks for malicious activity as well as gender and racial sensitivity
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[16:56:37] <CaptHindsight> "I noticed that these packets are coming from China"
[16:56:52] <FinboySlick> Must be frustrating for AI programmers. They need to train AI on real-world data but they don't want AI to behave according to the real world.
[16:57:34] <CaptHindsight> just like public school
[16:57:49] <CaptHindsight> it will end up just as nuts
[16:58:04] <XXCoder> all schools need to teach critical thinking
[16:58:31] <XXCoder> wanna know why schools sucks? budget cuts.
[16:58:37] <XXCoder> teachers pay way too low
[16:58:50] <FinboySlick> I don't think that's for lack of budget.
[16:59:12] <FinboySlick> That's just not where the money goes.
[16:59:47] <FinboySlick> Take education budget divided by number of teachers.
[16:59:53] <FinboySlick> It'll make you want to be a teacher.
[17:00:22] <XXCoder> I dont mind being a teacher, I found I have love of teaching decade+ ago
[17:00:27] <XXCoder> but money just isnt in it
[17:00:55] <CaptHindsight> keeps the lower classes suppressed
[17:01:01] <FinboySlick> Yeah. You get my point though.
[17:01:06] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: the problem is older than you
[17:01:35] <CaptHindsight> not really a problem depending on your viewpoint
[17:01:38] <XXCoder> and deaf schools get worse of it, if budget calls for schools increase of pay, deaf schools is "inusitional so dont count" but if inustion are called for pay increase, it's a school so dont count
[17:02:01] <FinboySlick> Solving department X problems would mean Department X can't ask for more money. The last thing you want to do is solve department X problems.
[17:02:02] <XXCoder> so they get far fewer pay increases
[17:02:17] <XXCoder> also reason my brother quit from being staff and moved on into dvr
[17:02:32] <CaptHindsight> digital video recorder?
[17:02:39] <XXCoder> no.
[17:03:13] <CaptHindsight> I give up
[17:03:14] <XXCoder> Division of Vocational Rehabilitation
[17:03:20] <CaptHindsight> ah knew it
[17:03:43] <XXCoder> budget there is seriously undersized and understaffed
[17:03:51] <XXCoder> my bro has over 120 clients
[17:04:12] <XXCoder> old normal would be 40 to 50
[17:04:21] <FinboySlick> We actually have a decently managed schoolboard here. Every year they go on a big spending spree... Because if they don't hit their budget, it gets sent to the schoolboards that are too incompetent to be on budget.
[17:04:34] <XXCoder> FinboySlick: yeah old spend or cut
[17:04:56] <FinboySlick> No price pressure on performance = promotion of inefficiency.
[17:05:10] <CaptHindsight> FinboySlick: stop making sense
[17:05:36] <FinboySlick> Yeah sorry. Going for real this time.
[17:05:43] <FinboySlick> Once again, it was great.
[17:05:45] <CaptHindsight> hasta banana
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[17:06:49] <XXCoder> off also. later
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[17:10:01] <CaptHindsight> i left hours ago
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[18:05:26] <gloops> whats the android app - picks up signals from overhead planes, make, destination, pilot etc
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[18:24:59] <SpeedEvil> flightaware?
[18:25:28] <SpeedEvil> Itisnotactyally recievingdata fromlanes,asthehone can't do that, but from a server from a network of recievers which recieve info from planes
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[18:34:45] <gloops> flight radar24 - got it
[18:34:49] <andypugh> Eh? https://imagebin.ca
[18:35:05] <andypugh> I have never sworn in my life, and am not doing so there…
[18:36:00] <jthornton> lol
[18:36:09] <SpeedEvil> ah
[18:37:23] <andypugh> Stupid web filters. It’s a good job I don’t like in Penistone or Scunthorpe.
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[19:21:54] <elmo40> LoL
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[19:25:21] * Loetmichel just got a nice easter present from the car insurance per mail today: they moved me from SF1/2 to SF3 (accident free time reduces the insurance cost)... the BMW 525i touring is now "only" 654€ a year, not 783€ like they said when i insured it last month. not much, but still worth a night out or two :-)
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[19:44:38] <jthornton> nice
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[19:55:18] <Tom_L> jthornton, got more Qtpyvcp tutorials i can look over?
[19:56:38] <jthornton> just the ones on Kurt's site
[19:57:01] <jthornton> of course you can look at all the GUI's on my github
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[19:58:06] <Tom_dev> i started to look at this briefly: https://doc.qt.io
[19:58:23] <Tom_dev> but haven't gotten very far at all
[19:59:17] <jthornton> yea that's for c++ there is a python one, what are you looking for just general info on pyqt?
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[19:59:36] <Tom_L> just something to learn
[20:01:22] <jthornton> https://build-system.fman.io
[20:01:30] <Tom_L> may not get far today anyway, long day
[20:08:30] <Tom_L> in your threadpercent function, where did you get the /0.01299 from?
[20:09:40] <Tom_L> also in the holeDiaCalc function
[20:11:36] <Tom_L> i assume '\' is line continuation in python
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[20:12:46] <jthornton> yea \ is line continuation
[20:13:07] <jthornton> for formulas I got them by googling
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[20:22:21] <_unreal_> got a major step in my motor controller box done. got the motor wiring interface adapter done. now I can start dealing with logic wiring
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[20:41:19] <gregcnc> jthorton did any of that spreadsheet make sense?
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