#linuxcnc | Logs for 2020-01-20
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[00:25:08] <_unreal_> sigh nothingg going on
[00:25:49] <_unreal_> I'm still milling the first of the PCBs
[00:25:59] <_unreal_> arg. 12:30am and I have to work in the morning
[00:26:10] <_unreal_> soon as the milling part finishes got to run the drill cycle
[00:26:12] <_unreal_> and take a shower
[00:26:22] <_unreal_> just gto the last of the @#%$@#$ pissy rug from the late dog...
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[01:04:12] <_unreal_> ve7it, ordered most of my parts
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[02:38:30] <Deejay> moin
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[03:48:47] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[03:48:49] <Loetmichel> *giggle* Note to coworker: The shoulder/emergency lane isnt meant to drive by the traffic jam. EVEN if you can already see the exit... Especially not if the police is also sitting in said jam... now he has 30 eur less... and thats cheap, the officer could have ticketed him 80eur ;)
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[03:49:15] <XXCoder> lol
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[04:32:47] <Loetmichel> *HAHA* NICE screw. want! -> https://www.isnichwahr.de
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[05:45:47] <jthornton> morning
[05:50:05] <XXCoder> yo
[06:39:01] <Loetmichel> *aaaah* Found the problem with the dp+3*HDMI->fiber->HDMI PC... if all 4 monitors are attached it works like a charm. IF you disconnect ONE HDMI converter power or fiber it will start to stagger and freeze if more than two are deactivated. seems Win10 doesent like any port with "cable connected but noone answering"... Now i am waiting for the customer to decide if he wants to have the
[06:39:01] <Loetmichel> converters dangling on the back or wants to have switches for the hotplug-detect on the three HDMI ports.
[07:05:35] <_unreal_> Loetmichel, the police in florida tend to ignore violators unless they have two things on them so they can arrest them...
[07:07:11] <Loetmichel> _unreal_: i drive the same stretch of daily traffic jam/congestion every morning... but i only use the shoulde from the point on where i can SEE every car in the que up to the exit. So far i didnt get caught ;)
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[07:40:31] <Tom_L> morning
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[07:55:13] <jymmmm> good morning folks
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[08:03:28] <XXCoder> heys
[08:05:11] <veegee> Any tips on converting my vertical mill to a manual/CNC hybrid?
[08:05:27] <veegee> I'm going to go ahead and order the ball screws
[08:05:30] <XXCoder> yeah buy latter ;)
[08:05:32] <XXCoder> joking
[08:05:41] <veegee> I definitely don't want to buy a VMC
[08:05:57] <veegee> I want specifically a machine that is manual, but in the middle of a cut, I can tell it to mill an arc on demand
[08:06:09] <XXCoder> automatic manual
[08:06:19] <veegee> is that what it's called?
[08:06:21] <XXCoder> i donmt know if its even buyable now
[08:06:30] <XXCoder> no, i dont know what its called
[08:06:38] <XXCoder> only ever seen one
[08:06:38] <veegee> Well the mill itself is in perfect condition, and they have an official ball screw kit
[08:07:00] <veegee> it's $2,000 for the ball screws but other companies which make ball screw kits for bridgeport mills are quoting the same amount
[08:07:16] <veegee> might as well buy directly from the manufacturer which guarantees compatibility
[08:07:21] <XXCoder> expensive for me heh
[08:07:41] <veegee> I got full machine for $4,000 CAD including collets, a $700 vise, DRO, etc.
[08:07:44] <XXCoder> maybe look around for cnc'd bridgeport thats broken but have intact parts
[08:08:01] <veegee> I don't mind spending a couple of grand
[08:08:36] <veegee> I just have to figure out the specifics like where to mount the motors and how to drive the ball screws while also retaining manual capability
[08:09:32] <veegee> Like this: https://www.youtube.com
[08:10:37] <Loetmichel> veegee: you can even use the acmre thread screws and CNC it
[08:10:38] <XXCoder> sorry but that video have been autovomit stabilized. i cant watch it
[08:10:46] <Loetmichel> if the threads are not badly worn
[08:10:57] <veegee> Loetmichel I just adjusted backlash and it's < 5 thousands
[08:11:07] <veegee> throughout the whole range
[08:11:24] <Loetmichel> then i would simply put big steppers on the manual feeds and be done with it ;9
[08:11:28] <veegee> and it has DRO for positioning anyway
[08:11:41] <veegee> does linuxcnc have the capability to use DRO output for closed loop control?
[08:11:52] <veegee> then backlash shouldn't matter at all
[08:11:53] <Loetmichel> yes, if you have a mesa card
[08:12:12] <veegee> really? So ballscrews not required at all? That's awesome
[08:12:21] <Loetmichel> it does still matter because it tends to induce some chatter/oscillation on the motors
[08:12:31] <veegee> oh right climb milling
[08:12:38] <veegee> ok I'll get the ball screws for that then
[08:12:38] <Loetmichel> but if its only 5 though it should be good
[08:12:45] <Loetmichel> thou
[08:12:53] <Loetmichel> doubt you would see that
[08:13:19] <veegee> I'm more concerned with how to mount the servos and how exactly to drive the screws without taking manual control away
[08:13:28] <Loetmichel> oscillation only if you use the glass readouts for closed loop though
[08:13:39] <veegee> why do you say that?
[08:13:42] <Loetmichel> if you use steppers and "dumb positioning" it wouldnt matter at all
[08:13:54] <veegee> you mean standard closed loop feedback oscilation?
[08:13:58] <Loetmichel> or servos with internal encoders
[08:14:03] <Loetmichel> yes
[08:14:24] <veegee> hmmm there must be a way to filter that out
[08:14:25] <Loetmichel> if you have "slack" in between your encoders and your motors that causes ociallations
[08:14:32] <Loetmichel> backlash isnt any different
[08:14:55] <veegee> the algorithm should be smart enough to compensate for backlash since it always works the same way
[08:15:12] <veegee> but oh well no big deal, I don't mind getting ballscrews
[08:15:23] <Loetmichel> the algorithm is. but it isnt runing on that low a circuit
[08:15:48] <Loetmichel> if you have mesa cards they directly do the PID closed loop from the glass readouts.
[08:16:01] <veegee> yeah that's what I'm going for
[08:16:02] <Loetmichel> there is no algorithm involved other than PID
[08:16:22] <Loetmichel> the backlash compensation is in the "pathfinding layer" in LinuxCNC IIRC
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[08:17:37] <Loetmichel> so in your case its better to use the servos with standard encoders on the back, regulated by the mesacard or even step/dir via LPT port and have the glass readouts as an control input into LinuxCNC and dont use them for the motor feedback
[08:17:55] <Loetmichel> kind of a "closed loop in software above the closed loop in hardware"
[08:17:56] <veegee> hmmm that's certainly one way to go
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[08:18:20] <veegee> but I really don't mind getting the ballscrews
[08:18:29] <Loetmichel> i know it can be done because i read about it, but i have no idea how.
[08:18:42] <Loetmichel> was a few versions back, too
[08:26:54] <veegee> Loetmichel can you link me to the Mesa card you were talking about? The one that can read the DRO scales?
[08:27:12] <veegee> I don't mind doing some custom hardware/software. I'm an electrical + software engineer by day
[08:34:14] <Loetmichel> cant remember which one.
[08:34:25] <Loetmichel> the developer of the mesa cards is here though
[08:34:46] <Loetmichel> canr remember his name at them momemt, but that should be solveable
[08:34:49] <Loetmichel> !mesa
[08:34:51] <Loetmichel> hmm
[08:35:02] <Loetmichel> i could have sworn we have a bot here
[08:37:03] <Loetmichel> http://www.mesanet.com <- thats the general website of themm though
[08:37:26] <Loetmichel> maybe mail them and tell them what you want to do and ask them to suggest a card that can do it?
[08:38:48] <veegee> Will do, thanks!
[08:51:57] <Elmo40> i really don't want to work today.
[08:52:06] <Elmo40> i need some excuses.
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[10:33:49] <beachbumpete1> Mornin'
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[12:29:27] <unterhaus> do other open source projects get people showing up on their mailing lists badmouthing the project?
[12:30:49] <unterhaus> I think the problem with linuxcnc is that it's open source and doesn't cost $5000. Otherwise, I have used cnc that has much worse software
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[12:42:06] <skunkworks> can't make everyone happy...
[12:43:02] <Deejay> re
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[12:54:13] <roycroft> unterhaus: all open source projects get people showing up on their mailing lists badmouthing the project
[12:55:30] <roycroft> the way democrats and republicans treat each other is downright courteous and friendly compared to how the various open source camps can treat each other at times
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[13:11:50] <SpeedEvil> I would disagree, but then I think of systemd and pulseaudio.
[13:12:23] <roycroft> and now you just nod in agreement while grimacing
[13:14:06] <burklefoo> I am trying to resist responding to that thread...
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[13:21:17] <beachbumpete1> its funny having used many different softwares over the years including quite a few different CNC controls I honestly think that LinuxCNC is pretty freaking fantastic
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[13:35:00] <gloops> i take it someone was slating linuxcnc? lol
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[14:09:04] <MarcelineVQ> "<unterhaus> do other open source projects get people showing up on their mailing lists badmouthing the project?" yes, absolutely
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[14:09:54] <MarcelineVQ> That's what they're for aren't they? Move people moved on to twitter or discord to do that though :>
[14:10:00] <MarcelineVQ> *Most people
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[16:08:46] <unterhaus> I just saw the thread in the middle because I delete things I'm not interested in. Not sure of the exact complaint
[16:23:46] <Jymmm> I was FINALLY able to get up on the roof. Snow melted and JUST beat the rain.
[16:25:10] <unterhaus> I want to go up on the roof and cap the fireplace chimney, but it's not going to happen for a while
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[16:27:10] <Jymmm> Well, I wasn't able to sweep the chimney, but I found the spark arrester completly clogged. I was able to take a wire brush to it and get it all cleared out.
[16:28:36] <Jymmm> https://imgur.com
[16:30:29] <Tom_itx> that's santa's job.
[16:30:58] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Only if he's a 12" midget
[16:32:46] <Jymmm> My only guess is that's newspaper that floated all the way up and clogged the top
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[17:01:06] <unterhaus> my neighbor tried to talk me into a coal stove. I'm a little impressed I can'
[17:01:17] <unterhaus> I can't tell he's burning coal
[17:02:01] <jdh> clean coal! It's the future
[17:08:26] <unterhaus> I have been putting off getting HVAC, maybe this year
[17:08:42] <unterhaus> don't think my asthma could tolerate the dust from coal
[17:08:53] <roycroft> i'm quite certain that installing a coal stove is illegal here in oregon
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[17:14:09] <Tom_L> they would rather you burn trees due to the abundance of them?
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[17:27:01] <Deejay> gn8
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[17:55:27] <_unreal_> ve7it, I'm finishing the PCB right now
[17:55:29] <_unreal_> just got home
[17:55:34] <_unreal_> doing the last of the hole drilling
[17:57:32] <ve7it> cool
[17:58:00] <_unreal_> after that I just need to switch bits and mill the excess pcb off
[17:58:16] <_unreal_> then I can start mounting some of the parts
[17:58:24] <_unreal_> that I have on hand
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[18:13:43] <_unreal_> STUPID
[18:14:24] <_unreal_> let do a super slow feed rate of 20mm/m g00x0 enter SNAP! wtf
[18:14:45] <_unreal_> G01X0F11 arg....
[18:22:02] <veegee> Anyone know the approximate weight of a bridgeport motor?
[18:22:15] <veegee> I'm going to replace mine with a 3hp 240V 3 phase motor
[18:22:23] <veegee> I have an engine crane if necessary
[18:22:36] <veegee> But I still have to transport it from the store to my car
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[18:24:43] <_unreal_> veegee, yes
[18:24:47] <_unreal_> veegee, its "heavy"
[18:25:21] <_unreal_> veegee, depends on the model 35-105 lbs
[18:25:35] <_unreal_> assume the greater
[18:25:54] <veegee> most 3 hp TEFC motors I can find examples of on baldor.com (https://www.baldor.com/catalog/CEM3661T) are about 100 lbs
[18:26:05] <veegee> that's no problem, I can carry that on my shoulder
[18:26:16] <veegee> But 300lbs I cannot
[18:27:16] <veegee> Ah yeah 105 lbs is no problem, thanks
[18:27:28] <infornography> <3
[18:27:54] <veegee> I mean it'll be fun watching the fat white dudes behind the counter bring it up from the back of the warehouse
[18:35:39] <_unreal_> weeewwwwhhhhh....
[18:36:17] <_unreal_> my cordless drill was sitting in my chair and tipped over as I sat down. some how I pressed the button a little. chuck started to spin touching my leg... that was a wake up call.
[18:45:18] <_unreal_> ve7it, I have started milling my second PCB
[18:52:03] <Loetmichel> _unreal_: quite the shock when something touches you unexpected
[18:52:12] <Loetmichel> isnt it?
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[19:02:41] <_unreal_> yep
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[20:25:45] <_unreal_> ve7it, two boards more or less done
[20:25:58] <_unreal_> just finishing drilling the holes on the second board
[20:26:07] <_unreal_> then scrap it off and prep the 3rd/final board
[20:26:29] <_unreal_> scrape
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[21:40:40] <gloops> 20mm a minute lol
[21:40:55] <gloops> so three more sleeps to go
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[22:13:24] <_unreal_> sleeps?
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[23:25:49] <Elmo40> who has time to sleep?
[23:28:34] <norias> truly
[23:29:05] <Elmo40> too many projects and not enough hours in the day!
[23:29:12] <Elmo40> plus, it is COLD outside!
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