#linuxcnc | Logs for 2020-06-08
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[00:33:27] <elmo40> Tom_L: solid carbide endmills?
[00:33:52] <elmo40> that small? maybe if it had a unique radius or profile.
[00:36:04] <XXCoder> depends on lot of factors really. most times we dont regrind tools, but one fiberglass job we just keep on regrinding all larger tools.
[00:36:18] <XXCoder> .75" tools could be down as far as .725"
[00:36:34] <XXCoder> as long as it meets radius needs its fine
[00:39:27] <elmo40> but any standard type mill smaller than .375" shouldn't be reground
[00:39:33] <elmo40> not cost effective
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[00:59:03] <jesseg> Man do I hate taxes but not for the reason you do :P - A customer gave me a check for $400 for a repair job on a tractor. The salestax is 8.7% in this city. There is NO pre-tax price that equals $400 even.
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[01:01:04] <jesseg> in other words, X*1.0 != 400.00 -- for any value of X..
[01:01:25] <jesseg> I mean
[01:01:31] <jesseg> in other words, X*1.087 != 400.00 -- for any value of X..
[01:01:57] <XXCoder> solve for x
[01:02:08] <jesseg> XXCoder, I did, and you can't.
[01:02:34] <XXCoder> so it has "subpenny" so cant get specific price to penny
[01:02:35] <jesseg> There is no value of X in dollars and pennies that will give a number, which when rounded to dollars and pennies, will be 400
[01:03:13] <jesseg> And this particular customer wants a receipt. So it's either going to say she paid $399.99 or $400.01, or has a 1 cent credit or is owing 1 cent.
[01:04:03] <XXCoder> i remember paying bill and later getting in mail check for one penny
[01:04:39] <XXCoder> sending me that check cost them 100 times more money or more
[01:04:50] <jesseg> LOL
[01:09:49] <elmo40> jesseg: dont you round up/down the penny?
[01:12:59] <jesseg> elmo40, yes I do round. But the problem is for each penny change on the input, the output changes 1.087, so at certain input steps, the output makes a double step.
[01:13:42] <jesseg> elmo40, For example: 367.98*1.087=399.99426 and 367.99*1.087=400.00513
[01:14:14] <jesseg> so as you can see, there is no penny value that can give a number that rounds to the nearest penny to 400.00
[01:14:46] <jesseg> because 0.994 rounds down to 0.99, and 0.0051 rounds up to 0.01
[01:14:54] <jesseg> there is no .00 :D
[01:15:28] <sensille> so make it 367.985
[01:15:56] <sensille> why does it have to be a round penny?
[01:15:57] <jesseg> Currently my software does not accept sub-penny price inputs.
[01:16:10] <jesseg> Shortsightedness on the bloke who wrote it
[01:16:14] * jesseg <-------
[01:17:28] <jesseg> I guess I need to either change it to accept half cents or port it to my phone so I can give exact values to the customer rather than giving them a ballpark figure then making it fit later :P
[01:17:28] <sensille> and 735.97 with a 50% rebate?
[01:17:48] <jesseg> LOL that'd confuse them good
[01:18:06] <jesseg> it doesn't have a percentage based rebate feature either
[01:18:21] <sensille> or something, with 3% rebate for paying upfront
[01:19:27] <W1N9Zr0> Banker's Rounding gets you 400.00 from 400.00513
[01:20:39] <jesseg> W1N9Zr0, that would solve the problem for $400, but wouldn't there be some other numbers that then had the same problem?
[01:21:22] <W1N9Zr0> yup, for sure. and given murphy's law, very soon after you implement this!
[01:22:11] <jesseg> I can actually put in a negative expense entry and if I set the taxrate to "Services" then there's no tax, which allows me to give any penny discount.
[01:22:43] <jesseg> but it means I pay for more salestax than I should.. but blah..
[01:31:30] <sensille> i give this one more try: i'm searching for a somewhat decent small lathe. ideally one that i don't need to rebuild the moment it arrives. any recommendation for something <1500 euro?
[01:32:38] <sensille> can you see anything specific that speaks against this one? https://www.paulimot.de
[01:33:19] <sensille> (sorry, can't find an englisch version of the description)
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[01:44:11] <enleth> sensille: look for a local reseller of http://www.siegind.com who does not rebrand
[01:44:20] <enleth> maybe there's one closer than Arc Euro Trade in the UK
[01:45:03] <enleth> legend goes that Sieg sends their best machines to resellers who keep factory branding and don't try to pretend that the machine is anything but Chinese
[01:46:04] <sensille> that would also be paulimot
[01:46:47] <sensille> they sell sieg c2, sc4
[01:47:15] <sensille> and sc2
[01:47:18] <enleth> so unless it went downhill, they're supposed to be the best Chinese hobby machine manufacturer
[01:47:33] <enleth> mostly because they listen to reviewers and fix stuff
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[01:49:08] <W1N9Zr0> whatever you do, don't get the 7"x8" version, get at least 7x12. everything on 7x8 is too close together. compound, hand wheels, tool post, and your fingers constantly hits the tailstock
[01:49:26] <enleth> I have a C0 that I bought way back in middle school, it did pretty well considering what it is
[01:49:44] <enleth> I was able to machine small stainless steel parts on it
[01:50:22] <enleth> it's a training machine now, for people who never used a lathe before - the 120W motor is incapable of doing any damage to people or equipment
[01:51:00] <sensille> so there is "spitzenweite" 400mm. i suppose that corresponds to x14" or x16"
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[01:51:29] <enleth> that's 16"
[01:51:56] <sensille> and the first value might be "spitzenhöhe" 90mm --> 7"?
[01:52:02] <enleth> sensille: look at SC4, it might be just barely within your budget
[01:52:26] <sensille> yeah, it is above, but looks nice
[01:52:38] <sensille> 1800 euro
[01:52:53] <sensille> spindle bore 20mm, is that enough?
[01:53:59] <sensille> enleth: can you have a look at the one i linked?
[01:54:26] <sensille> now i suspect that is also produced by sieg, with modifications requested by paulimot
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[01:54:39] <enleth> if the cast shapes match, it might be
[01:54:59] <sensille> or i just ask them
[01:56:31] <enleth> it doesn't really match all that well, but do ask
[01:56:48] <sensille> the sc2 is well within budget, but i'm not sure if a 500W is strong enough
[01:57:01] <sensille> yes, they do look significantly different
[01:57:37] <enleth> if the vendor is any good, just ask them up front what their thoughts are on the build quality of that PM190 compared to Siegs
[01:58:36] <sensille> as i know next to nothing about lathes, i mainly judge them by their weight :D
[01:59:00] <enleth> that's actually a valid way to do an initial assessment
[01:59:13] <enleth> except maybe for soviet machines, they're all heavy as fuck
[01:59:53] <sensille> the PM190-v is not bad with 82kg, but the sc4 really excels with 137kg :)
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[02:05:37] <enleth> not bad
[02:06:10] <enleth> funny thing is, that old C0 is actually lighter than most *chucks* on the lathe I'm using now
[02:06:58] <sensille> the pm190-v also has belt to gear down the spindle. i'm not sure how important torque in the lower rpm range is, but that looks like a nice feature
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[02:07:45] <enleth> oh, yes, it is
[02:08:50] <sensille> older review say it is hard to change belts, newer say it's very easy. so they seem to have reacted and changed the design
[02:14:19] <enleth> sensille: ask them about this as well
[02:15:24] <sensille> i will. but purely from the spec, do you see anything that speaks against it?
[02:16:03] <enleth> no, it looks fine
[02:16:15] <sensille> ok, thanks :)
[02:16:18] <enleth> sensille: I assume you're limited by funds, but also space/weight?
[02:17:10] <sensille> sure there's a space/weight limit, but mainly because i have to somehow move it into the basement
[02:17:22] <sensille> i have space enough
[02:18:35] <sensille> weight won't a problem either (*)
[02:18:40] <sensille> (*) within reason
[02:19:01] <enleth> try looking at used machines in your area as well, then
[02:19:20] <enleth> Germany produced many compact lathes
[02:19:31] <sensille> i have no way to tell if they are any good though
[02:20:36] <enleth> look at machines sold by retired owners, see what their shop/garage looks like
[02:20:49] <enleth> old-timers usually kept their equipment well maintained
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[02:22:00] <Deejay> moin
[02:22:54] <enleth> sensille: you'll probably find nothing of note, but there's still a chance you could find a retired metalworker selling his personal garage lathe
[02:24:03] <sensille> most i've see is either really big or does not look trustworthy at all
[02:24:37] <sensille> most is the 'bring your own forklift' kind
[02:25:07] <enleth> are you in the east or west?
[02:25:13] <sensille> berlin
[02:25:20] <sensille> so ... both?
[02:25:45] <enleth> as far as old machines are concerned, more like east
[02:25:57] <sensille> yeah
[02:26:06] <enleth> so it's huge clunky soviet-ish stuff
[02:26:35] <enleth> no retired owners of small Swiss machines are likely to be anywhere near
[02:28:29] <enleth> the fact that Brandenburg is mostly agriculture doesn't help either
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[02:39:32] <CaptHindsight> in soviet union lathe choose you
[02:39:51] <XXCoder> in soviet union lathe lathes you
[02:41:55] <sensille> like this? https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de
[02:42:03] <sensille> there's really not much to find around here
[02:44:42] <CaptHindsight> 700 euro for that seems like a deal if it's not worn out
[02:45:28] <CaptHindsight> only 1Kw motor
[02:47:28] <CaptHindsight> does the spindle make noise?
[02:47:38] <CaptHindsight> are the ways worn?
[02:47:56] <CaptHindsight> was it stored in the rain?
[02:48:12] <CaptHindsight> if it runs cut something
[02:49:13] <sensille> it says 'no power available'. tbh, i'm really afraid of buying such a thing with zero experience
[02:52:02] <CaptHindsight> are you in ahurry?
[02:52:08] <CaptHindsight> a hurry
[02:53:24] <sensille> not that much, but it would be nice to get it for my birthday in a month
[02:53:41] <CaptHindsight> it has taken some people months to find a decent machine somewhat nearby them
[02:53:53] <CaptHindsight> many months
[02:54:10] <CaptHindsight> some areas just have more than others
[02:54:35] <CaptHindsight> and often people rent truck to haul a good deal across the country
[02:55:00] <sensille> i've already been looking from time to time for months now. the offered ones were either small and very old or too big
[02:55:44] <sensille> one that's hard to move would be a big commitment for a beginner
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[03:00:12] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: http://cyberspaceandtime.com
[03:00:18] <XXCoder> looking
[03:00:29] <CaptHindsight> hold on to your wayback machine Mr. Peabody
[03:00:41] <sensille> this one looks appealing: https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de
[03:01:01] <sensille> only 450W
[03:02:09] <CaptHindsight> ask Loetmichel if he's not bleeding out :)
[03:03:42] <XXCoder> interesting heh
[03:04:41] <XXCoder> capt it dont quite work
[03:04:56] <CaptHindsight> I'm not sure what it reminds me of, maybe win3.1
[03:05:03] <XXCoder> yeah
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[03:05:18] <XXCoder> first windows i used was windows 3.11 for workgroups
[03:05:42] <CaptHindsight> and old BBS's
[03:16:38] <Loetmichel> hmm?
[03:18:03] <CaptHindsight> familiar with any of those ^^
[03:18:48] <Loetmichel> sensille: that looks like a good deal...
[03:19:33] <Loetmichel> ...for half the price. Sometimes the sellers seem to have some strange opinions what something is workt
[03:19:37] <Loetmichel> worth
[03:20:13] <sensille> yeah. i'm currently tending towards the PM190-V, https://www.paulimot.de
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[05:36:41] <JT-Cave> morning
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[07:36:15] <Tom_L> morning
[07:36:25] <XXCoder> heys
[07:37:15] <Tom_L> elmo40_, that's kinda what i figured
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[08:01:42] <Tom_L> jesseg, i always add the tax to the fees so that never happens
[08:04:56] <Tom_L> after all i have ~870 tax rates to keep track of
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[08:43:00] <jymmmm> elmo40_: No I didn't, but I believe it. Especially with the T&B crimpers I have used for 30+ years.I love (lust?) these things =)
[08:44:35] <jymmmm> skunkworks: partially color blind?
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[09:35:22] <skunkworks> yes - but things like network cable I have a hard time telling the difference between the green and brown pair, Red - green - brown..
[09:35:27] <skunkworks> pain in the ass
[09:38:06] <jymmmm> skunkworks: I hear ya - is that grey or beige, bastards!!!
[09:38:34] <skunkworks> exacty.
[09:38:42] <skunkworks> violet or grey
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[09:52:20] <skunkworks> my daughter was sleeping - couldn't ask here what color the wires were
[09:58:39] <jymmmm> skunkworks: Well glad the app helped with that =)
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[11:24:15] <Loetmichel> ouch... just ordered Filament for 350++ eur on dasfilament.de . Those four Ender3 printers really eat some plastik when running nearly 24/7 ;)
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[12:29:27] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[12:55:49] <jymmmm> Loetmichel: IS that what you have ender 3's? Like? dislike about them?
[13:08:54] <CaptHindsight> Tom_L: your logs might be stuck again
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[14:06:12] <Loetmichel> jymmmm: i have 4 ender3s at the company
[14:06:13] <Loetmichel> yes
[14:06:18] <Loetmichel> and i do like them so far
[14:06:30] <Loetmichel> not much to dislike, maybe the limited speed
[14:06:38] <Loetmichel> but for the price they are nearly perfect
[14:06:47] <Loetmichel> have you seen the pic?
[14:07:06] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org
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[14:34:12] <jymmmm> Loetmichel: ah, you dont have the whole rPi thing going on with them?
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[14:38:32] <CaptHindsight> you might have to use an ESP32 since the Rpi's cost too much
[14:48:24] <jymmmm> CaptHindsight: octoprint on esp32?
[14:51:12] <CaptHindsight> certainly something that almost works
[14:51:55] <jymmmm> I'm detecting sarcasm
[14:52:29] <CaptHindsight> if it's cheap enough it does not need to be open source
[14:54:54] <jymmmm> I lost ya, but okey =)
[14:57:25] <CaptHindsight> just pointing out maker behavior
[14:57:58] <jymmmm> ah, I know nuttin bout 3d printers
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[16:28:49] <Deejay> gn8
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[17:32:54] <jymmmm> CannedPizza: aka CheeseINACan While there is a "proper" way to charge lipo cells, I have not seen any mention of being able to properly charge them when a BMS is being used. Unless some ebike charges have that built in that I haven't seen
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[18:56:41] <veegee> Probably going to go with 1" black pipe for the main air supply line
[18:57:37] <veegee> Should be able to weld it pretty easily if it's steel
[18:57:58] <veegee> I have an air dryer so that should help quite a bit
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[19:48:08] <CannedPizza> apparently the Rockchip3399 has an integrated Cortex M0
[19:48:11] <Tom_L> veegee, why weld it?
[19:48:32] <CannedPizza> so these might also be ale to run LCNC and hardware step without external hardware
[19:48:42] <CannedPizza> https://git.theobroma-systems.com
[19:49:02] <CannedPizza> http://opensource.rock-chips.com
[19:49:22] <CannedPizza> https://www.theobroma-systems.com
[19:50:31] <CannedPizza> https://store.pine64.org uses RK3399 ^^
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[19:51:43] <CannedPizza> The board is equipped with a PCIe x4 open ended slot,
[19:51:59] <CannedPizza> so you could use Mesa over PCIe, Ethernet or SPI
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[19:56:32] <Tom_L> CannedPizza doesn't sound very appetising...
[19:56:59] <Tom_L> log
[19:56:59] <c-log> Tom_L: Today's Log http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81
[19:57:05] <Tom_L> but at least that's back
[19:58:50] CannedPizza is now known as HorseTeeth
[20:00:22] <jymmmm> Yo Cheese in a can (horseteeth), no video, just a header =(
[20:00:35] <jymmmm> HorseTeeth: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[20:01:20] <HorseTeeth> jymmmm: witch link?
[20:01:50] <jymmmm> single board
[20:02:11] <HorseTeeth> https://store.pine64.org
[20:02:20] <jymmmm> yeah, that one
[20:02:29] <HorseTeeth> wekrs hear
[20:02:41] <jymmmm> hdmi?
[20:03:05] <jymmmm> HorseTeeth: No, I mean there's no hdmi on it
[20:03:23] <jymmmm> just a (I'm guessing) LVDI header
[20:05:13] <HorseTeeth> has HDMI
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[20:05:33] <HorseTeeth> http://wiki.pine64.org
[20:05:55] <HorseTeeth> #26
[20:07:12] HorseTeeth is now known as SpamSpamEggsSpam
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[21:05:29] <jymmmm> SpamSpamEggsSpam: aka Green eggs and ham, ah ok, cool.
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[21:46:06] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> mostly spam
[21:56:15] <Rab> https://sites.google.com
[21:56:50] <Rab> Wow, that's an awful product. One of those ancient Electrocraft servos with an ER11 set screw adapter.
[21:57:27] <Rab> 200W
[21:58:22] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> I have one around here
[21:58:24] <Rab> I have a bunch of those servos. The nose bearing is like a single 608ZZ.
[21:58:37] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> forgot how it ended up here
[21:58:50] <Rab> I guess CNCDIY is no longer in business.
[22:00:10] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> odd site
[22:00:16] <Rab> SpamSpamEggsSpam, do you have a preferred grease for linear rails and bearings?
[22:00:26] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> https://sites.google.com
[22:02:37] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> Rab: lately synthetic non moly grease
[22:04:47] <Rab> IKO allegedly specifies this item, cheapest source I've found: https://cnc-specialty-store.com
[22:06:41] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> 4 000 - 8000mPas
[22:06:55] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> at room temp
[22:07:26] <Rab> Is that high, or low?
[22:08:22] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> https://ecllube.com
[22:08:37] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> low for grease but that is used for spindles
[22:09:56] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> Lithium and barium complexes have similar lubrication qualities
[22:10:28] <Rab> Sounds ideal for some sick G0 moves.
[22:13:47] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> slow moving rails with high loads = thick grease like peanut butter
[22:14:57] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> spindles get hot so they require a lube that doesn't get to thin or breakdown at high temps or have particles that will make the bearings slide vs roll
[22:16:39] <Rab> I saw this recommended, but can't remember by whom...maybe Parker: https://smile.amazon.com
[22:16:47] <Rab> Low-temp synthetic lithium grease.
[22:17:03] <Rab> Thanks for the informative PDF.
[22:17:28] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> yeah covers the spectrum
[22:18:09] <Rab> Ideally I could find something pretty cheap that I could use across my random assortment of rails, without worrying too much about compatibility with the existing grease.
[22:18:36] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> for slower rails I use Mobile 1 Synthetic
[22:18:50] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> https://www.mobil.com
[22:22:20] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> https://www.thelubricantstore.com
[22:25:38] <Rab> SpamSpamEggsSpam, price is hard to beat. Thanks!
[22:27:02] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> for spindles I have vactra #2
[22:27:04] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> oil
[22:27:45] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> no that is for ways
[22:29:01] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> #3 is spindle
[22:29:16] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> ended up with a drum of each
[22:29:20] <Rab> Yeah, I have #2 for my manual mill.
[22:29:59] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> have over 1/2 a drum of each if you need some
[22:32:30] <Rab> Why, thanks! I bought mine off of eBay from one of the people who subdivide their drum at 10x markup.
[22:33:53] <Rab> Looks like $10/qt is the going rate.
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[22:37:14] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> https://imgur.com came with a lathe
[22:39:12] <Rab> That's the kind of lube that put men on the moon. Were they hardened blocks of amber in the cans?
[22:39:40] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> still liquid
[22:40:41] <Rab> My mill is a Clausing, it wants 20w oil for everything. It has about 20 tiny ball oilers.
[22:41:27] <Rab> But I brush Vactra #2 onto the ways and screws.
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[22:41:55] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> https://imgur.com
[22:42:45] <Rab> Very nice, I'm looking for something similar.
[22:43:06] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> it was stored for year and years
[22:43:26] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> they coated it with that wax
[22:43:39] <Rab> Cosmoline?
[22:43:46] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> or similar
[22:44:06] <Rab> That's the lube that defeated the Nazis.
[22:44:19] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> Nazi free here
[22:48:11] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> I changed the motor out to a 2hp 2phase
[22:48:17] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> 3 phase
[22:48:45] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> the original motor went bad a few days after it arrived
[22:48:47] <Rab> Was 2hp stock?
[22:49:04] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> 2HP single phase is the original
[22:49:15] <Rab> Do you use a VFD?
[22:50:45] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> no, I flushed and filled the original hydraulic system and it works like new
[22:51:01] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> bled it well and it just works
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[22:54:04] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> Clausing Lathe Model 5914 Manual http://vintagemachinery.org
[22:54:26] <Rab> That's excellent. From lurking on the Clausing list, it seems like the hydraulics and VS drive on some of the models are a pain to deal with when they wear out.
[23:01:17] <enleth> Rab: speaking of defeating Nazis, I acquired a 1940s/1950s German surface grinder that is painted a *very* specific shade of gray
[23:01:27] <Rab> enleth, heh
[23:01:56] <enleth> I don't have an actual confirmed historical sample but I'm 99% percent sure it was painted with surplus Feldgrau
[23:02:14] <enleth> that is, the paint used on most Nazi tanks
[23:02:24] <enleth> s/percent//, duh
[23:02:49] <Rab> In a manner of speaking, that too put men on the moon. ;)
[23:03:08] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> Werner von
[23:03:35] <Rab> Grey, not Brown.
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[23:04:15] <SpamSpamEggsSpam> Grey and Braun
[23:05:01] <enleth> I imagine after the war, with no tanks to paint anymore and a huge stock of leftover Feldgrau, it might have ended up in many places as a bargain buy
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