#linuxcnc | Logs for 2020-06-09
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[04:14:53] <Deejay> moin
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[04:59:17] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: not Rpi. An I5 server" with linux and repetier server on it for all4 printers
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[05:19:15] <Loetmichel> *AAAAAAH* Coworker took 2 days of changing parts and trying things to get a new PC pass the EMI check. no avail, fails at <100khz... i looked at the sytem: everything ok... then i looked at the measurement chamber: the Grod simulation box had Earth connected to ground via 50uH/50Ohm... flipped the switch to "hard ground"... everything within spec. Sometimes you search on the wrong device :(
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[05:59:43] <JT-Cave> morning
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[06:08:16] <XXCoder> hey
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[06:12:34] <JT-Cave> I've not found anymore tobacco hornworms in the tomatoes
[06:13:45] <XXCoder> nice
[06:14:07] <XXCoder> guess those wasnt horny enough to make more to bother you
[06:14:33] <JT-Cave> raining now so can't look today, so far the only thing that is fluorescence is some string I used lol
[06:15:33] <JT-Cave> https://www.nightsea.com
[06:15:59] <JT-Cave> they should be easy to spot
[06:16:28] <XXCoder> glowy indeed
[06:20:35] <JT-Cave> got started on the spoke lathe yesterday, trying to get the clamp part into cad so I can add a pneumatic cylinder to that.
[06:23:29] <XXCoder> cool :)
[06:23:41] <XXCoder> i got really dizzy so had to return home bit earlier
[06:24:04] <XXCoder> cant do that too often :( im not very happy at all
[06:26:52] <JT-Cave> I'm anemic so if I don't eat enough red meat my RBC gets too low and I start having balance problems
[06:27:57] <XXCoder> odd. not likely in my case though
[06:28:08] <XXCoder> 3 weeks now, of dizzyness.
[06:28:13] <XXCoder> record is 9 months
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[07:06:33] <Tom_L> morning
[07:08:39] <XXCoder> hey
[07:14:20] <JT-Cave> yo
[07:28:15] <Tom_L> sunny & high of 88
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[07:30:55] <JT-Cave> rainy here, tomorrow is sunny with a high of 75°F :)
[07:31:16] <XXCoder> late spring rains here
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[07:46:52] <sensille> enleth: does this thing look reasonable? https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de
[08:52:11] <enleth> sensille: old-school but might be a good machine
[08:53:21] <sensille> must be 80+ years old, i probably don't dare to buy it
[08:53:21] <enleth> most of it is not repainted, this is *good*
[08:53:34] <enleth> nah, looks like 60s
[08:53:51] <enleth> or 50s
[08:54:00] <enleth> but not pre-war
[08:54:07] <sensille> that company stopped producing around 1943
[08:54:18] <enleth> oh, interesting
[08:54:41] <enleth> a rather modern design, then
[08:56:05] <enleth> tiny chuck, but DIN 800 spindle nose adapters are readily available
[08:56:59] <enleth> good motor size
[08:57:44] <enleth> needs a little bit of EvapoRust, but it's only surface rust, not pitting
[08:58:55] <enleth> the only thing that needs to be replaced right away is the ancient toolpost
[09:00:40] <enleth> other than that, this machine should move metal just fine and looks like it still has a lot of life left in it
[09:00:59] <sensille> nice you can tell that from the pictures :)
[09:01:14] <sensille> not sure if i can move it into my basement, though
[09:01:33] <sensille> i'm tempted to make a substantially lower offer and see what happens
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[11:25:14] <Rab> sensille, on a machine that old, watch out for plain or sleeved spindle bearings. Even if the spindle is in good shape, that may not be what you want.
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[13:47:52] <Loetmichel> Rab: on a lathe sleeve bearings CAN be beneficial to ball/roller bearings
[13:48:06] <Loetmichel> they take hits a LOT better
[13:54:39] SpamSpamEggsSpam is now known as CaptHindsight
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[14:23:29] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: does Alec know about the RTAI issue? He hasn't touched it for a while and he said it was running solid here last i heard.
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[14:30:19] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: Yes, he is aware: https://github.com
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[15:01:21] <Rab> "I wish you that after every 100th stop the exhaust pipe falls off your motorcycle."
[15:01:40] <Rab> Hmm, I've owned and ridden motorcycles that were vastly less reliable.
[15:04:59] <CaptHindsight> describes most cars I had in the 70's
[15:07:27] <Rab> andypugh, and anyone else, I ordered an inexpensive eBay lot of keyseat cutters which were advertised as having 1/2" shanks. But upon arrival, they all have a strange shank I've never seen before: tapered, approximately the same angle as a morse taper, and with an angled notch. About like this: https://i.ebayimg.com
[15:07:47] <Rab> Does anybody recognize this shank?
[15:08:27] * jymmmm read that as shark... Da dum.... Daa Dummm....
[15:08:50] <Rab> Here's another example: https://i.ebayimg.com
[15:10:13] <Rab> I wonder if it's some horizontal milling thing. I never contacted the seller; they were really pretty cheap. But I wonder what to do with these things.
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[15:13:09] <andypugh> A useful search term is “whistle notch” but I am not finding any tepered ones.
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[15:14:01] <Rab> There are centers drilled at both ends, so I thought about turning a straight shank. I don't know if they're HSS or what; they might have to be ground.
[15:17:29] <andypugh> Is it actually morse taper?
[15:19:55] <andypugh> I guess you could make an adaptor, but unless you expect to use a lot of them just machining to cyclindrical is probaly the way to go. I understand that it is possible to machine HSS with carbide or CBN tooling.
[15:20:54] <Rab> Well, with some quick caliper measurements...one shank tapers .535 to .505 over .800 in.
[15:22:24] <Rab> Morse taper is .050 per 1.0 inches, which isn't too far off.
[15:24:07] <CaptHindsight> so likely Chinese Morse equivalent :)
[15:24:38] <Rab> I should've mentioned, they also all have a .140 round key slot.
[15:25:37] <Rab> CaptHindsight, these are old and seemingly western in origin.
[15:27:47] <CaptHindsight> Rab: from near me
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[15:28:27] <Rab> CaptHindsight, possibly.
[15:28:40] <CaptHindsight> https://i.ebayimg.com
[15:28:58] <CaptHindsight> if you have part numbers I can ask them
[15:28:59] <Rab> Now that I know what to look for, I see tons of them all over eBay.
[15:34:01] <Rab> CaptHindsight, unfortunately mine don't seem to be RB. The one in that picture looks like #71529, 3/4 x 1/8.
[15:37:22] <Rab> Most are marked Union, one is marked Midwest.
[15:44:59] <Rab> A HSS drill went right into the shank, so I guess turning is the answer. Holding them might be tricky.
[15:53:40] <andypugh> Rab: Not on this page, but the page itself is interesting: http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com
[15:53:44] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: I see that your questions about RTAI brings out the selfish responses
[15:54:42] <andypugh> Yes, I was thinking much the same. No offers to help figure out the problem, you note.
[15:55:26] <CaptHindsight> yes, "I only use preempt so just release that"
[15:56:06] <CaptHindsight> "your years of work do not matter to me, next"
[16:02:50] <veegee> Hmm, still contemplating getting this lathe: https://www.kijiji.ca
[16:03:13] <veegee> Includes DRO, 3 jaw, 4 jaw, steady rest, mounting round plate
[16:03:23] <veegee> the foot thing is a brake, also has power feed
[16:05:51] <veegee> A new similar lathe costs $5,000 USD: https://www.precisionmatthews.com
[16:06:08] <CaptHindsight> was just going to mention that
[16:06:59] <CaptHindsight> Running on 600V (575)
[16:07:17] <CaptHindsight> so you'll need a transformer as well
[16:08:39] <pcw_home> andypugh: does wheezy/RTAI work with your tests?
[16:08:51] <Deejay> gn8
[16:08:56] <CaptHindsight> https://aceronline.net love this: The images above do NOT represent the true sizes of the machines relative to each other.
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[16:10:32] <andypugh> pcw_home: Runtests on the buildbot doesn’t crash, so I assume that that version of RTAI is OK.
[16:11:10] <andypugh> But that’s an interesting point, hinitng that the issue isn’t directly with anything that LinuxCNC is doing.
[16:13:14] <pcw_home> That's why I wondered if the Preempt-RT test coverage might catch 99%plus of the problems
[16:15:20] <pcw_home> My opinion would be release with the note about of RTAI exit bugs and hope that eventually they get figured out
[16:16:40] <andypugh> The problem is that the buildbot makes the installer debs, and part of the process is running runtests. And then that crashes the buildbot.
[16:17:49] <pcw_home> are the runtests check-pointed so they could resume after a crash?
[16:17:58] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: Alec was just visibly upset on the mailing list. And justifiably so, I think.
[16:18:27] <veegee> CaptHindsight I have 600V 3 phase
[16:18:40] <veegee> power is not a problem
[16:18:45] <andypugh> That’s a question for Seb, but not as far as I know.
[16:18:46] <Rab> andypugh, nice taper resource, thanks.
[16:18:50] <veegee> I just want a nice solid lathe for a good price
[16:20:57] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: one more straw around here
[16:22:25] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: probably didn't help that I mentioned to him that have met some that made the comments
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[16:45:02] <veegee> What's the standard in the USA for 3 phase industrial power?
[16:45:09] <veegee> For us in Canada, it's 600V
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[16:45:52] <veegee> and a transformer in each unit to get 240V and 120V
[16:47:15] <jdh> 480
[16:49:28] <CaptHindsight> veegee: small units say Under 10k sq ft 120/208 for new installs
[16:49:42] <CaptHindsight> 480 on request
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[16:50:36] <CaptHindsight> 480 and 600 for new installs are on request for larger structures
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[16:51:39] <CaptHindsight> you can order a 600 or 480 service for a small building...
[16:52:30] <CaptHindsight> but unless you are building your the owners building rentals won't want to pay the extra to convert 480/600 to any 120/208 internally
[16:52:48] <CaptHindsight> -your
[16:56:09] <veegee> really? only 208Y120 for small industrial units?
[16:56:29] <veegee> That's pathetic. Even a 1,000 sq•ft industrial unit here gets the same 600V 3ø
[16:56:32] <veegee> minimum
[16:57:04] <veegee> Buildings with multiple industrial units have a dedicated electrical room that has like 12kV or more coming in
[16:57:51] <veegee> I used to want to convert all my motors to 240V so I can use them with cheap VFDs
[16:57:57] <veegee> but damn that's a lot of current
[16:58:21] <veegee> I figured might as well get a good 600V VFD or build my own. 1,200V IGBTs aren't that expensive
[16:58:32] <skunkworks> the encoder seems to count..
[16:59:00] <veegee> and 600V gives you a lot of flexibility. Transformers are cheap compared to thick copper wire
[16:59:35] <veegee> all my high power motors are running on 600V and the rest of the tools get 120V.
[16:59:52] <veegee> 120V is stupid too. Let's just make everything 240V and be done with it
[17:01:25] <andypugh> Europe UK is either 230V single phase or 400V three phase. Don’t see 600V here.
[17:01:31] <CaptHindsight> veegee: I was just looking at spaces over the winter...
[17:01:42] <veegee> ah you too eh
[17:01:51] <CaptHindsight> some were only 120/240 2-pole, not even 3 phase
[17:01:52] <veegee> :P I absolutely love my new unit
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[17:02:21] <andypugh> Canada is the only country with 600V three-phase
[17:02:22] <andypugh> https://www.worldstandards.eu
[17:02:39] <CaptHindsight> you build cheap and let the tenant pay for upgrades or long term lease lock in
[17:02:44] <veegee> Our industrial power is surprisingly clean. I stuck two oscilloscope probes into the mains and it was so clean, the screen went black
[17:03:30] <veegee> andypugh did not know that. So Baldor motors is offering all their motors in 600V models for just one country barely anyone knows about?
[17:03:33] <CaptHindsight> we used to monitor the mains on CNC shops to rule out intermittent problems, they all had awful services
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[17:06:05] <CaptHindsight> I worked in buildings here with 4KV service entrances
[17:06:32] <CaptHindsight> really hurts when you touch a hot :)
[17:06:51] <veegee> we have at least 12kV service entrances
[17:07:05] <CaptHindsight> 12Kv is on the pole
[17:07:05] <veegee> I think our highschool had a 24kV?
[17:07:29] <CaptHindsight> yeah, they bring in a fused main and have the transformer in the building
[17:07:44] <veegee> oh so there you have it, high burst power whenever you want
[17:07:52] <veegee> no need to mess with this weird ass 208 nonsense
[17:08:00] <CaptHindsight> we usually place a transformer pad outside
[17:08:31] <CaptHindsight> the power co drop the transformer and hooks up the primary side to your supplied secondary wires
[17:08:40] <veegee> I bought a 48 kVA 600V - 240V 3ø transformer for $200 CAD
[17:09:07] <CaptHindsight> sorry, hooks up the primaries and then hooks your supplied wires to the secondaries
[17:09:10] <veegee> yeah those voltages are too high for DIY
[17:09:36] <veegee> 600V is nice in that all your electrical test equipment is rated for 600V cat 4, like fluke multimeters, etc.
[17:09:42] <veegee> and it gives you a lot of power if you need it
[17:10:10] <CaptHindsight> veegee: that would be >$1k USD here
[17:10:17] <veegee> I bought it used
[17:10:17] <CaptHindsight> plus installation
[17:10:26] <veegee> yeah they're expensive new anywhere
[17:10:42] <veegee> but they're so common because every single industrial unit has at least one
[17:11:12] <veegee> even the pizza restaurant below our office has 600V 3ø coming in
[17:12:29] <CaptHindsight> https://www.loopnet.com
[17:12:36] <CaptHindsight> 200A service
[17:12:43] <veegee> Damn, dawg
[17:12:51] <veegee> I'm in Toronto and paying less per sq ft in Canadian dollars
[17:13:19] <veegee> $8/sq•ft/year
[17:13:30] <veegee> but that's for the 3,300 sq•ft unit
[17:15:04] <CaptHindsight> $8/sq ft USD around here gets you a pile of rubble with a tin roof or tarp covering
[17:16:00] <CaptHindsight> $12 -16 gets you new construction with no radioactive waste underneath
[17:16:13] <veegee> andypugh looks like all the shitty little 3rd world countries really love low voltage and 50Hz big transformers
[17:16:46] <veegee> CaptHindsight yeah it's a shame the USA government is so corrupt with bribery that the land is polluted like that
[17:17:12] <veegee> our industrial unit has goose nests in the parking lot and cute little kitty cats
[17:17:19] <veegee> lots of wildlife, very clean land
[17:17:32] <skunkworks> well - the rain hit..
[17:17:37] <CaptHindsight> we also have the geese
[17:18:18] <CaptHindsight> but the info in the listings are so poor that you have to go see what service they actually have installed
[17:18:19] <skunkworks> who had hurricane in wi for apocalypse bingo?
[17:18:46] <CaptHindsight> just had cats and dogs here minutes ago
[17:26:01] <Tom_L> andypugh, would it be helpful if i ran your test on my wheezy pc?
[17:26:34] <andypugh> Tom_L: It wouldn’t hurt, and should be fairly easy to do.
[17:26:38] <veegee> What are these fuses called? https://www.homedepot.com
[17:26:41] <veegee> The size format, that is
[17:26:47] <veegee> all my disconnect switches use them
[17:26:52] <Tom_L> i'll run a copy over to it after bit and give it a go
[17:27:20] <veegee> I can't find any information on what the physical dimensions designation is
[17:27:21] <Tom_L> we're still talking about the load unload test right?
[17:27:53] <andypugh> Yes
[17:28:53] <Tom_L> iirc i had to variants of the test
[17:29:30] <Tom_L> one commented out 'realtime start'
[17:29:53] <Tom_L> i will go with the original test
[17:33:50] <andypugh> Which one is that?
[17:34:18] <sync> CaptHindsight: why would the development time of somebody matter to me if the product isn't even relevant for my usecase?
[17:35:19] <andypugh> Tom_L: Use this one: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com
[17:35:26] <CaptHindsight> sync: why are you relevant to me? Who do you think that you are to approach ME with your questions?
[17:36:30] <andypugh> Tom_L: Except with a path to your actual modules
[17:36:46] <sync> because you seem to care CaptHindsight
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[17:37:32] <CaptHindsight> sync: why would I care about YOU?
[17:38:10] <CaptHindsight> you must be mistaken
[17:39:44] <Tom_L> andypugh, do i need to run an environment script prior?
[17:39:53] <andypugh> No
[17:39:59] <Tom_L> i keep getting command not found
[17:40:08] <andypugh> That test does not involve LinuxCNC at all
[17:40:25] <Tom_L> in the same directory i : ./andytest.sh
[17:40:27] <andypugh> You will need to run it with sudo
[17:40:31] <Tom_L> i did
[17:40:40] <Tom_L> going back to the shop..
[17:40:42] <andypugh> Make it executable?
[17:40:50] <Tom_L> that may be it..
[17:41:01] <sync> you don't have to, but that's exactly my point CaptHindsight
[17:42:01] <CaptHindsight> sync: nobody is saying that YOU have to, sorry you were raised by wolves
[17:43:37] <Tom_shop> halcmd: hal_init() failed: -22
[17:43:38] <Tom_shop> NOTE: 'rtapi' kernel module must be loaded
[17:43:38] <Tom_shop> RTAPI: ERROR: could not open shared memory (No such file or directory)
[17:43:38] <Tom_shop> ERROR: rtapi init failed
[17:43:38] <Tom_shop> HALCMD: Release Mutex failed!
[17:43:38] <Tom_shop> RTAPI: ERROR: could not open shared memory (No such file or directory)
[17:43:40] <Tom_shop> HAL: ERROR: could not initialize RTAPI
[17:44:09] <Tom_shop> Linux wheezy 3.4-9-rtai-686-pae #1 SMP PREEMPT Debian 3.4.55-4linuxcnc i686 GNU/Linux
[17:44:25] <Tom_shop> ?
[17:44:43] <andypugh> Huh?
[17:44:54] <andypugh> Which script are you running?
[17:45:08] <andypugh> https://pastebin.ubuntu.com
[17:46:31] <Tom_shop> loading.. takes forever for ff to load out here
[17:46:58] <Tom_shop> can you pm it to me?
[17:47:18] <Tom_shop> ok i got it
[17:47:23] <Tom_shop> no i was running another testt
[17:51:38] <Tom_shop> andypugh, what rtai name would i change it to for wheezy?
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[17:52:22] <Tom_shop> i see it i think
[17:52:42] <andypugh> Whatever you have as /usr/realtime…
[17:52:51] <Tom_shop> yeah
[17:54:51] <sync> CaptHindsight: wat
[17:54:59] <Tom_shop> ok it's running
[17:55:31] <Tom_shop> i'll let it run and come back out and check on it after bit
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[18:10:25] <veegee> Ok I'm going to be buying a lathe and seeing one tonight
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[18:10:51] <veegee> On a vertical mill, I look for the scrape marks and such for assessing its quality and how it's been treated
[18:10:58] <veegee> but for lathes, I have no experience
[18:11:05] <veegee> What should I be looking for?
[18:12:43] <Tom_L> wear near the head?
[18:13:07] <Tom_L> most turning is done 'up close'
[18:16:25] <roycroft> yes, you want to make sure that in the middle of the bed the carriage has no play, then move it to right next to the chuck and see if there's any play
[18:16:50] <roycroft> there almost certainly will be if it's a well-used lathe
[18:18:26] <veegee> got it, so same idea as a vertical mill
[18:18:49] <veegee> although the one I bought was very well taken care of by the machinist and has very very little wear for a 10 year old mill
[18:19:53] <veegee> Should I bring anything with me like calipers or a micrometer? Or just wiggle it with my hands to check the play?
[18:22:07] <andypugh> Dial indicator on a mag base maybe
[18:23:17] <Tom_L> andypugh is a professional lathe shopper...
[18:23:21] <Tom_L> listen to him
[18:23:24] <gregcnc> If anything a piece of ground or turned rod and a .0001" indicator. if the machine isn't level you may not learn much
[18:24:01] <andypugh> I am not really, I have only bought 5 lathes in my whole life.
[18:24:11] <Tom_L> that's 4 more than me
[18:24:35] <andypugh> And two were cheap Chinese ones (my advice: don’t)
[18:24:37] <gregcnc> also google for common issues with make/model if you haven't yet
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[18:25:49] <Tom_shop> 12k and still running andypugh
[18:26:15] <andypugh> That’s going a bit slow, then
[18:27:09] <veegee> dial indicator, good idea, thanks
[18:29:03] <Tom_L> it's a slow pc
[18:29:07] <Tom_L> d525
[18:36:36] <skunkworks> got a +/-15rpm wobble
[18:36:43] <skunkworks> (with no pid)
[18:37:45] <skunkworks> is spindle pid usually pretty low numbers? Like P of .5 and I of 1
[18:42:06] <skunkworks> 5.7hz at 600rpm
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[18:58:31] <Tom_shop> just now hitting 26500 andypugh
[18:58:54] <andypugh> That’s running a lot slower than mine
[18:59:05] <Tom_shop> wonder why
[18:59:40] <Tom_shop> do they throttle back when hot? it's in a fairly warm shop
[19:00:32] <Tom_shop> thing is though... it's still running
[19:00:48] <pcw_home> I would think P needs to be close to 1 (if you are 1 RPM slow that adds 1 RPM to the commanded velocity
[19:01:21] <skunkworks> so far P=1 and I=1 seems the best
[19:01:39] <skunkworks> I mean - it works ok
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[19:02:34] <skunkworks> but either there is a pully issue or the motor isn't comutating over its whole rotation
[19:02:35] <jymmmm> e=mcHammer... can't touch this^2
[19:03:06] <skunkworks> or something else
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[20:20:00] <sync> CaptHindsight: how is that selfish? I fail to see how this is the case
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[21:30:49] <Rab> andypugh, I just ran your test five times on a Core2Duo with 4.14.174-rtai. It locked up at passes 353, 71, 32, 1156, and 148. 1156 was odd; the script stalled, the GUI was still responsive, but most things I tried didn't work. I think it killed disk access.
[21:32:13] <Rab> FWIW I've never had the system freeze while exiting from LinuxCNC under this kernel (or otherwise).
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[21:57:28] <CaptHindsight> sync: you're the first person that came to mind when the thread started
[21:58:44] <XXCoder> ah thread. was really wondering how the heck whole thing started. staying out besides this comment though. dont explain futher
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[22:17:25] <CaptHindsight> new topic
[22:18:11] <renesis> oranges are yummy
[22:18:40] <CaptHindsight> is there some group of maybe users that are waiting for a new release?
[22:19:40] <CaptHindsight> the forums have so many threads now about howto install on everything from Ubuntu to Debian to Mint
[22:20:50] <Tom_L> not a new release to talk about yet so what else?
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[22:21:22] <Tom_L> i think quite a few are using it already anyway
[22:22:06] <CaptHindsight> JT has like 73 howtos
[22:22:12] <CaptHindsight> well maybe 20
[22:23:18] <Tom_L> and?
[22:23:53] <CaptHindsight> I thought everyone was just using those for new instals
[22:24:47] <Tom_L> i've used several to try new installs on newer os
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