#linuxcnc | Logs for 2020-07-18

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[00:08:16] <XXCoder> those dum dums try to steal a tv lol https://youtu.be
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[01:09:05] <pink_vampire> hi
[01:09:11] <XXCoder> hey pink
[01:10:35] <XXCoder> did you see video link? heh
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[03:16:46] <pink_vampire> yeah
[03:17:13] <XXCoder> dumb eh
[03:30:39] <pink_vampire> screw driver..
[03:34:59] <pink_vampire> I need a reamer
[03:35:03] <pink_vampire> 1/8"
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[05:58:58] <JT-Cave> morning
[05:59:41] <XXCoder> yo
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[07:41:53] <Tom_L> morning
[07:42:14] <XXCoder> yo
[07:43:07] <Tom_L> 76 / 96 today
[07:43:20] <XXCoder> 75f peak
[07:43:35] <XXCoder> it will get hotter across week "yay"
[07:43:39] <JT-Cave> 95 here
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[07:54:43] <Tom_L> JT-Cave, chickens are gettin big
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[08:05:17] <JT-Cave> aye
[08:05:34] <XXCoder> id be surpised if they didnt
[08:10:33] * JT-Cave struggles to find a simple example of loading a text file into a div
[09:15:55] <pcw_home> its been about 55 at night for the last two weeks or so so our tomatoes are in suspended animation
[09:19:24] * JavaBean offers to rehome pcw's tomatos... notes its been dropping down to 75 overnight here
[09:20:38] <JT-Cave> we could use some cooler nights
[09:22:36] <pcw_home> I like this weather but tomatoes don't (the scarlet runner beans do, we have about 15 lbs in the frig even though we have been eating them almost every day
[09:24:23] <JavaBean> can you do the "baling wire" and "saran wrap" trick to keep them from getting too cool at night?
[09:24:45] <JavaBean> or are they just "too big" for that?
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[09:29:34] <pcw_home> They are pretty big now
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[09:31:37] <JavaBean> meh, "too big" all depends on personal range of movement, proximity to other plants, and sizes of "saran wrap cages" available... can be mechanically assisted to make the "too big" definition bigger than without
[09:32:01] <pcw_home> I guess I could make a clear poly tent but its been pretty windy so it would need to be supported well
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[09:34:26] <JavaBean> get a few of those "drill in" dog chain holders... the ones for "chaining your dog" in the back yard... they are rather easy to use, an a "carbiner" on a snap to hook to the bailing wire at a "strong point"
[09:35:01] <JavaBean> s/snap/"short length of cable/rope/chain/etc"
[09:35:49] <JavaBean> when you are done, the thing might float a lil. but it shouldn't disapear
[09:37:10] <pcw_home> They are along a fence so I do have some support from above
[09:38:56] <JavaBean> now you just gotta "source" some "bailing wire" and clear plastic wrap
[09:44:51] <pcw_home> Yeah I think I will give that a try (we have at least another couple weeks of 50s night temps)
[09:45:19] <skunkworks> pcw_home: if the encoder dpll was set too low - would the axis sound noisy if the dpll got lost?
[09:47:10] <pcw_home> If set too low "baseline drift" can cause occasional large timing errors (just plot error_us to see what going on)
[09:47:23] <skunkworks> it was set to -50 but the latency is 100+
[09:48:05] <skunkworks> Yes - I will. It was odd - every once in a great while the axis would get really loud - but no following error.
[09:48:42] <skunkworks> while moving
[09:49:57] <pcw_home> In this case it would get out of sync by about one thread time so will cause a following error or velocity*servo_thread_period
[09:50:06] <skunkworks> hmm.
[09:50:07] <skunkworks> ok
[09:50:11] <skunkworks> then I don't know what that was
[09:50:36] <pcw_home> I would halscope the dpll_error_us
[09:50:46] <skunkworks> I will
[09:51:07] <JavaBean> just remember pcw, doesn't have to be fancy, doesn't have to be expensive, doesn't have to be "bailing wire"... hell you could use that cheap metal strip from lowes/homedepot and rivit it at the joint at the top... just gots to hold some saran wrap around you plant without touching the plant(idealy)
[09:53:29] <pcw_home> I have a lot of that black iron wire used for re-bar tying, and some cheap clear shower curtains, maybe that would work
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[09:59:46] <JavaBean> yeah, that should work... only mentioned saran wrap because its cheap, shower curtains would work though(especially if its what you have "on hand")
[10:01:52] * JavaBean preps to head off and do battle at the post office, hopes his packages are available and he doesn't have to stand in line for 3 days again
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[10:36:43] <perry_j1987> when would you want to use a single point thread mill vs thread form mill
[10:37:02] <perry_j1987> btw morning everyone
[10:42:46] <SpeedEvil> Some materials don't meaningfully form, for example cast iron
[10:43:12] <SpeedEvil> Or hardened steel
[10:49:00] <roycroft> a form tool will require a lot more power than a single point tool
[10:49:55] <SpeedEvil> And deflect more with the same class of tooling.
[10:50:08] <roycroft> yes
[10:50:41] <roycroft> you can take a tool blank and grind a single point thread tool to any profile you want in a matter of a minute or two
[10:51:20] <veegee> I wish my cheapo calipers would show fractional inches to the nearest 1/32 instead of 1/128, or have it selectable
[10:51:52] <veegee> half the time I use it to visually hunt for something like 3/8" to visually compare it to 1/2"
[10:53:21] <perry_j1987> ty
[11:05:52] <veegee> https://www.amazon.ca does this look suitable for compressed air line usage?
[11:06:20] <veegee> Almost all the one way "check" valves I see are for "fluids", but gas is technically a fluid
[11:09:12] <roycroft> that item states that it is suitable for gases
[11:09:29] <roycroft> duda energy make good stuff
[11:09:42] <roycroft> they're a small company who manufacture in the usa
[11:10:11] <roycroft> and my experience with them is that their stuff does what they claim it does
[11:11:28] <veegee> roycroft wow thanks. I thought it was one of those sum-ting-wong brands if you know what I mean
[11:11:37] <roycroft> all that said, gas molecules are generally much smaller than liquid molecules (for substances at room temperature)
[11:11:44] <roycroft> the guy is in georgia
[11:12:08] <roycroft> since the molecules are smaller it's harder to seal them
[11:12:33] <roycroft> and if you're running at high pressure you may not get a perfect seal
[11:12:44] <roycroft> iirc you have a fairly beefy compressor
[11:12:55] <veegee> Yeah. For my usage, I'm not worried about a perfect seal. This is going to sit between the "wet" tank and "dry" tank to prevent backflow into the air dryer and coalescing filter
[11:13:03] <roycroft> if i were you i'd contact the guy and give him your specs
[11:13:11] <roycroft> and see what he says
[11:13:14] <veegee> yeah I'll do that thanks
[11:13:42] <veegee> although small leak is no problem. The purpose is to protect the coalescing filter and air dryer from high backflow if that were to happen for whatever reason
[11:13:49] <roycroft> right
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[11:14:29] <veegee> I can also test it very easily. Stick it backwards onto an air hose and put a balloon on the other end and see if the balloon inflates overnight
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[11:14:33] <roycroft> i have one of their plate chillers for my brew system - that's how i know the company
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[11:16:31] <roycroft> a lot of breweries use them for their pilot systems
[11:17:47] <roycroft> looking at his other items, he's selling a lot of valves and other general plumbing components now
[11:18:13] <roycroft> that stuff may be imported - and if so, the check valve may be as well
[11:18:51] <roycroft> that is, the product line has exanded so much it is likely that it's not all manufactured in house any more
[11:19:20] <roycroft> however, even if some of it is imported it's probably good stuff - the guy takes pride in his products
[11:19:59] <veegee> Yeah that's what I'm hoping
[11:20:06] <roycroft> at the very least, you have somene who speaks a variant of english (southern) to deal with if there are any problems
[11:20:44] <veegee> Yeah I avoid "no spek da gud engrish" as much as possible
[11:23:37] <Tom_L> they wouldn't send you inferior products. after all you're feeding their children
[11:25:05] <veegee> Going to do some real world air consumption tests for fun
[11:25:23] <veegee> Time to brush up on calculus/integration
[11:25:43] <veegee> and PV = nRT gas law stuff
[11:39:59] <Tom_L> with that much tank your compressor will probably run once a week
[11:41:15] <veegee> Tom_L some of my usage can make it run constantly
[11:41:27] <veegee> Air blow gun, abrasive blasting, that kind of thing
[11:41:39] <Tom_L> hvlp will
[11:41:59] <veegee> Now this is really weird. According to this calculator: https://www.rapidairproducts.com at 150 psi, 1/2" hose, 100ft, theoretical CFM is 25
[11:42:17] <veegee> But with my air blow gun, I'm 100% sure that it's almost double that
[11:43:05] <veegee> Because my compressor does 50 CFM easily and constantly holding the blow gun open at 150 psi keeps the pressure dial in the same position, meaning that air in = air out
[11:43:07] <Tom_L> i use 3/8" coil for most hand tools
[11:43:21] <Tom_L> i can get it in bulk and cut to size
[11:43:22] <veegee> so how is their CFM calculator off by 100%
[11:43:34] <veegee> Doesn't make sense
[11:44:13] <veegee> I'm using flexzilla 100 ft 1/2" hose straight form the tank as an experiment. No pressure regulator or anything else in the way
[11:44:51] <veegee> the pressure gauge on the tank holds steady at 150 psi when the compressor is on and the pump is rated for 50 CFM
[11:45:39] <veegee> Not even using quick connect couplers. Just NPT hose barbs
[11:46:02] <Tom_L> can you re'dry the desiccant in those driers?
[11:46:08] <veegee> yes
[11:46:13] <Tom_L> oven?
[11:46:19] <veegee> I do it all the time, made a special oven controller for it
[11:46:20] <veegee> yes
[11:46:30] <veegee> make sure to keep it just above 100ºC
[11:46:32] <Tom_L> how hot/long?
[11:46:36] <veegee> Like 105, until the colour changes
[11:46:45] <veegee> I use the colour changing desiccant
[11:46:56] <veegee> If you go too hot, it will melt and destroy the desiccant
[11:47:19] <veegee> I put a fan in the oven and a custom temperature controller to get really even 105ºC inside with no hot spots
[11:47:29] <veegee> Works absolutely perfectly
[11:47:59] <Tom_L> what's a good brand? campbell hausfeld?
[11:48:02] <veegee> Or just buy an expensive regenerating dual tower desiccant dryer. It does the same thing either with dry air or a heater.
[11:48:20] <veegee> Anything will work
[11:48:27] <veegee> now hear me out, this is a very cringy video https://www.youtube.com
[11:48:36] <veegee> But this girl is very smart. Her dad is an engineer
[11:49:05] <veegee> They did their own high flow compressor by paralleling lots of cheap compressors and staggered compressor power on
[11:49:20] <veegee> for abrasive blasting her rusty VW beetle
[11:49:28] <Tom_L> no sound on this pc
[11:49:32] <Tom_L> have to look later
[11:49:37] <veegee> Then she built her own desiccant air dryer
[11:50:08] <veegee> It's the exact same principle as the campbell hausfeld dryer, but much larger and much higher flow
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[11:50:27] <veegee> But yeah the CH one is good: https://www.amazon.ca
[11:50:43] <veegee> This is the desiccant I use: https://www.amazon.ca
[11:51:48] <veegee> Very high quality. Easy to see when its getting saturated. Turns from orange to blue. Put in the oven and magically turns back orange every time as long as you're careful and don't overheat it. Goal is to boil off the water so literally as close to the boiling point of water as you can get it to avoid overheating the desiccant
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[11:53:50] <veegee> If I forgot to mention it, very heavy emphasis on not overheating in the oven. Ask me how I know
[11:55:23] <veegee> My custom controller does a very gentle gradual heat up and has multiple thermocouples spaced out inside the oven to make sure there are no hot spots. Also have a fan in the oven
[11:55:43] <Tom_L> i did a toaster oven for solder reflow
[11:55:49] <Tom_L> it has a 'bake off' cycle
[11:55:57] <veegee> desiccant is much more sensitive than reflow soldering
[11:56:29] <Tom_L> what about oil dry?
[11:56:36] <Tom_L> kitty litter
[11:56:37] <veegee> an expensive pool of molten desiccant is a very depressing thing to see
[11:56:53] <veegee> I wouldn't put cat litter in an air system ever. Insane amount of dust
[11:57:11] <Tom_L> filter pads above it
[11:57:16] <Tom_L> but yeah that's what i was wondering
[11:57:23] <veegee> I don't think you can regenerate that
[11:57:35] <Loetmichel> hmm, any fridge mechanics here? long compressor runs and ice buildup in the fridge section at juust above "off" setting on the thermostat but still occasionally switching off on its own: defective thermostat or lost coolant? (i.E.: buying new thermostat or buying new fridge, replacing the coolant wouldnt be cost effective)
[11:57:37] <Tom_L> it's cheap enough i wouldn't care
[11:57:50] <veegee> It's not nearly as drying as the desiccant I linked you to
[11:57:54] <veegee> I have a cat haha, I know
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[11:58:24] <veegee> Loetmichel my fridge does the exact same thing, shitty controller
[11:58:37] <veegee> I fixed it by adding my own temperature controller wired directly to the compressor
[11:58:51] <veegee> Also I have fans in the fridge to prevent cold spots
[11:58:53] <Loetmichel> veegee: no controller. just a mechanical thermostat.
[11:59:01] <veegee> I know, bypass it with a controller
[11:59:12] <veegee> Fridge thermostats are generally really shitty
[11:59:45] <veegee> This is what I use for the fridge: https://www.amazon.ca
[11:59:54] <Loetmichel> no, its not doing that since we bought it, its just developed that behaviour in the last few months. its 17 years old btw
[12:00:05] <veegee> oh
[12:00:21] <veegee> I highly doubt refrigerant loss. If that happened, it wouldn't even get that cold to ice
[12:00:28] <veegee> my bet is thermostat failure
[12:00:57] <Tom_L> did you blow the dust from the cooling fins / fan?
[12:01:13] <Tom_L> if it has one
[12:01:24] <veegee> I'm like 99% sure thermostat failure. And yeah clean out the heat exchanger parts
[12:01:37] <Loetmichel> Tom_L: i did not, but the fins look fairly clean. not THAT much dust and cobwebs on it
[12:01:41] <Tom_L> they're always full of lint
[12:02:00] <Loetmichel> (as far as i can see, its built into the cupboard)
[12:02:14] <Tom_L> likely not the problem but will help efficiency
[12:02:51] <gregcnc> I have a dehumidifier that old, which has started freezing up this year
[12:02:54] <Loetmichel> and it has no fans. neither internall nor on the external heat exchanger
[12:03:33] <veegee> Yeah swap the thermostat
[12:04:15] <Tom_L> likely the cheapest thing to test first anyway
[12:07:30] <gregcnc> how much water does desiccant absorb? I mean how many cubic feet of air? are you removing water with any other method?
[12:07:49] <veegee> gregcnc through a refrigerated dryer first which gets rid of most of the water
[12:07:55] <veegee> and desiccant absorbs A LOT
[12:07:56] <gregcnc> Ok
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[12:12:37] <jymmmm> coil on plug diag - pretty good video https://www.youtube.com
[12:16:57] <Loetmichel> gregcnc: our actual freezer is about 28 now... still running nicely though and not that energy hungry either... talk about old "bauknecht" quality ;)
[12:17:47] <Loetmichel> gregcnc: silica gel pearls can absorb about 2 times their weight in water IIRC
[12:17:52] <Loetmichel> before saturated
[12:18:05] <gregcnc> apparenty it's 40%
[12:18:17] <Loetmichel> weight or volume?
[12:18:33] <gregcnc> mass
[12:18:40] <Loetmichel> ah
[12:18:55] <Loetmichel> so weight. interesting. where did i get the 2 times from?
[12:19:01] <gregcnc> sometimes you get a good product. AC unit at my parents house was installed in 1986.
[12:20:24] <Tom_L> nowdays: s/sometimes/once it a great while
[12:20:35] <gregcnc> I replaced a capacitor last year
[12:27:43] <Loetmichel> Tom_L: right
[12:31:44] * JavaBean grumbles, back from town... poor again
[12:32:00] <Tom_L> i would avoid town
[12:33:06] <Tom_L> jymmmm, what year did they start using coil on plug?
[12:33:23] <JavaBean> the real kick to the wallet was the water delivery truck... owed him 95$ and wasn't expecting to see him at my "neighbors" on a saturday
[12:37:50] <jymmmm> Tom_L: IDK, but my 2001 Ford Expedition has them
[12:38:50] <jymmmm> Tom_L: And as I understand it Ford ECM doens't throw a code much of the time
[12:39:03] <jymmmm> even when it should be
[12:39:03] <gregcnc> for a misfire?
[12:39:12] <jymmmm> yeah, and the like
[12:39:44] <gregcnc> I think most have conditions where a misfire is ignored
[12:40:33] <jymmmm> Doens't help when there's a bad coil, and it happens often enough that it really should
[12:41:09] <jymmmm> the VERY first time it hapened, it threw a misfire code, replaced the coil, fixed it, then another coil went bad a week later.
[12:41:30] <gregcnc> at 20yo theya re all on the last legs
[12:41:39] <jymmmm> years alter, another coil goes bad,but NO code
[12:42:07] <jymmmm> gregcnc: Nope, more like 6 years
[12:42:56] <jymmmm> at the time
[12:43:14] <JavaBean> sounds like anothe quality FORD product
[12:43:35] <gregcnc> a lot fo coils do this
[12:43:52] <jymmmm> so, I've had to replace 1 or 2 coils, three times so far, now suspect a weak coil this time
[12:44:42] <jymmmm> IF it is weak and dumping fuel, WTH isn't the O2 sensor picking it up is beyond me
[12:45:13] <jymmmm> it's got 4 O2 sensors, eeeesh
[12:45:28] <gregcnc> it probably is
[12:45:28] <jymmmm> and just passed smog - shrug-
[12:45:53] <JavaBean> the reason i said "quality ford product", greg, is because the computer stopped tossing codes when it should.... like when an o2 sensor is getting assaulted by fuel, AGAIN
[12:46:05] <gregcnc> if it was really bad, you'd get a code
[12:46:23] <gregcnc> if it doesn't happen often enoguh or long enough you won't see it
[12:46:35] <JavaBean> or the computer stopped caring
[12:46:46] <gregcnc> i've read just enough about Bosch ECU
[12:47:02] <jymmmm> I'm getting around 10 MPG and suck power, it should
[12:48:04] <JavaBean> if it were anything but a ford, i would suggest inspecting the o2 sensors for "un reported" issues
[12:48:07] <gregcnc> how many O2 have you replaced?
[12:48:15] <jymmmm> none
[12:50:17] <jymmmm> I don't just replace parts till stuff goes away, that can get expensive and not resolve anything.
[12:50:44] <gregcnc> as long as gas is cheap enough
[12:51:03] <jymmmm> and it's not
[12:51:28] <jymmmm> I don't want to GUESS at what the issue(s) are.
[12:52:18] <gregcnc> I have a honda van tht's doesn't do what it used to. but i'm down to guessing
[12:52:22] <JavaBean> why not, that's what the dealer does
[12:52:59] <JavaBean> ford and chevy... having read their "factory service manual" i won't be getting another of either
[12:54:00] <jymmmm> That's why I linked that video, it was pretty good diag, and found 2nd coil failing too.
[12:54:41] <jymmmm> all just using a current probe on a scope
[12:55:15] <JavaBean> guess you got lucky, my old cobalt had a code 420. so, cat. that would have been cheaper
[12:55:47] <gregcnc> quite a few cars will run with no code, then throw a 0420
[12:56:06] <gregcnc> indicating there has been a long term problem
[12:56:07] <jymmmm> gregcnc: It just wants soem weed
[12:56:46] <JavaBean> meh, 0420 is a bitch to clear. it takes forever for that diagnostic
[12:57:15] <jymmmm> skunkworks: So now you have another use for your scope =)
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[13:04:05] <jymmmm> Thermal camera for diag... https://www.youtube.com
[13:06:04] <SpeedEvil> https://www.teledyneimaging.com
[13:06:12] * SpeedEvil wishes this wasn't $250K.
[13:08:53] <gregcnc> those BMW coils... they will misfire morning after rain or several days of no driving when they start going bad
[13:09:15] <gregcnc> never had one give up completely
[13:20:04] <jymmmm> OH, this is slick... https://www.youtube.com
[13:21:14] <gregcnc> yeah don't clear codes if trying to fix something
[13:21:39] <jymmmm> WEll, that it's being diag at the fuse box
[13:22:08] <jymmmm> And especally when no codes are being thrown
[13:22:42] <gregcnc> doesn't mean the data isn't there. the problem is accessing it if you don't have shop grade tools
[13:23:28] <jymmmm> HEll, he used a T-Pin
[13:27:59] <_unreal_> hello
[13:28:07] <_unreal_> been cleaning a lot
[13:28:57] <Tom_L> jymmmm, do the coil on plug fail sooner than the older conventional coil?
[13:29:44] <Tom_L> it eliminates the high voltage wire but puts it closer to the heat and heat kills
[13:30:19] <jymmmm> Tom_L: Seems to been a known issue on fords. I've replaced 5 so far of it's lifetime, suspect more now, more liekly weak coil(s) now.
[13:30:52] <Tom_L> i just bought 3 2020 hondas that have them is why i wondered
[13:31:25] <jymmmm> Tom_L: But that last video I just linked to, look at the "SEE MORE" he mentons hondas too
[13:31:37] <Tom_L> i'd never seen them before until you mentioned it here and i knew what they were then
[13:32:28] <gregcnc> coil on plug isn't that new
[13:32:45] <jymmmm> Tom_L: At least on Ford's, don't expect a code to always been thrown if there is an issue with them
[13:32:53] <Tom_L> i haven't had to work on an engine for some time now though
[13:33:11] <jymmmm> Tom_L: That's why I'm sharing these videos, it's hard to find good diag info like this.
[13:33:48] <jymmmm> Tom_L: I've been loking for going on 3 years now.
[13:34:18] <gregcnc> when was the misfire happening?
[13:34:36] <jymmmm> gregcnc: what makes you think it's a misfire?
[13:34:55] <jymmmm> s/think/believe/
[13:35:12] <gregcnc> so bad coil, but it still fired?
[13:35:26] <Tom_L> bad may still fire but weak
[13:35:29] <gregcnc> unlikely
[13:35:46] <jymmmm> gregcnc: see, this is the "guessing" I was tlaking about.
[13:35:52] <Tom_L> just like jymmmm's ac fan
[13:36:02] <Tom_L> it still worked right up until it died
[13:36:08] <Tom_L> just not as good as before
[13:36:23] <Tom_L> both are copper windings
[13:36:29] <jymmmm> Right, but we measured the coild on the motor too
[13:36:46] <jymmmm> so we knew it was weak/failing
[13:36:54] <gregcnc> so that's my question how did you know there was a problem?
[13:37:11] <jymmmm> gregcnc: 10MPG and loss of power.
[13:37:25] <gregcnc> and this fixed it?
[13:37:26] <Tom_L> could be injectors
[13:37:53] <jymmmm> No, the problem still exists. I'm trying to diag WHAT/WHERE the problem(s) are, not just guess
[13:37:59] <gregcnc> so ti was still a guess
[13:38:04] <Tom_L> my old s10, if the thermostat went bad it ran like crap
[13:38:09] <jymmmm> gregcnc: ?
[13:38:25] <gregcnc> you found a problem, fixed it and the problem is still present
[13:38:47] <jymmmm> gregcnc: I haven't found or fixed anything, I just know there is a issue
[13:39:03] <gregcnc> so it is or isn't misfiring?
[13:40:16] <jymmmm> I suspect a weak coil, but that has yet to be determined.
[13:40:28] <jymmmm> or coil(s)
[13:40:59] <gregcnc> oh I thought you determined
[13:41:20] <jymmmm> If there are weak coils, that wuld explain raw fuel being dumped and the poor milage and power
[13:42:00] <gregcnc> and it passed smog in CA?
[13:42:04] <jymmmm> No, not yet. It's what I'm researchign now, and thus sharing those videos
[13:42:09] <jymmmm> Yes
[13:42:14] <gregcnc> on a dyno?
[13:42:18] <jymmmm> No
[13:42:42] <jymmmm> 2000 and newer are from the cmputer only, no tailpipe or dyno.
[13:43:21] <gregcnc> lol then you're lucky there is no CEL.
[13:43:29] <jymmmm> CEL???
[13:43:46] <gregcnc> check engine light
[13:44:02] <gregcnc> code
[13:44:43] <Tom_L> i read that as California Emission Law
[13:45:28] <gregcnc> I thought everyone that reds about car repair knows CEL or SES
[13:45:33] <jymmmm> Tom_L: CARB = California Air Resources Board, equiv to Federal EPA
[13:45:42] <jymmmm> SES?
[13:45:46] <Tom_L> i haven't done much in quite a while
[13:46:00] <jymmmm> gregcnc: TMFA
[13:46:10] <gregcnc> Service Engine Soon = CEL in BMW
[13:46:29] <jymmmm> BMW?
[13:46:30] <Tom_L> SED = bmw
[13:46:36] <Tom_L> Service Engine Daily
[13:47:17] <gregcnc> shit happens to all makes
[13:47:18] <jymmmm> Tom_L: lol
[13:47:33] <Tom_L> i know, just couldn't resist
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[13:55:34] <jymmmm> $60 https://www.aeswave.com
[13:56:04] <jymmmm> $20 DIY... https://www.amazon.com
[13:56:50] <jymmmm> I REALLY like those taps
[13:57:01] <gregcnc> I took a burned fuse and soldered wires to it 25 years ago.
[13:57:29] <jymmmm> gregcnc: I thought about that, but with all the multiple size fuses there days, might be a pain
[13:57:34] <jymmmm> these*
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[14:43:02] <_unreal_> interesting looks like my delivery """" will """" arrive today
[14:43:16] <_unreal_> ordered rails so i can finally finish the upgrade to my cnc machine home machine
[14:44:03] <_unreal_> when I get it I will be able to check the psacing and make the final cad part. have my current machine cut the parts so Ic an then take everything apart put the new parts in and my home machine will be almost 2x as ridged
[14:44:20] <_unreal_> the vast majority of play in my machine is all in the Z
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[15:11:02] <pink_vampire> how do I add Mcode before the drilling cycle in G98 G81?
[15:11:25] <pink_vampire> so each hole will start with that Mcode
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[15:24:47] * jymmmm back
[15:26:37] <gregcnc> are you trying to do something G81 doesn't do?
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[15:29:43] <pink_vampire> I'm trying to spray coolant before each drilling operation, and I don't want it on all the time.
[15:30:04] <pink_vampire> but HSM give me the code as G98 G82 X-11.2 Y1.6 Z-15. R0. P1. F333.33
[15:30:22] <pink_vampire> and then bunch of X Y locations.
[15:30:51] <pink_vampire> and at the bottom there is G80
[15:30:54] <gregcnc> and a G80 after. tha'ts how that works
[15:31:35] <gregcnc> M8
[15:31:43] <gregcnc> G4 P1
[15:31:45] <gregcnc> M9
[15:31:53] <gregcnc> then drill
[15:31:56] <pink_vampire> so I need to add Mcode before it start drill the hole
[15:32:16] <gregcnc> oh you want to edit the post
[15:32:27] <gregcnc> ?
[15:32:43] <pink_vampire> I just want drop of cutting oil on the metal, then drill, then move to the next hole, drop of cutting oil drill...
[15:33:56] <pink_vampire> the user defined Mcode take care of everything, (amount of oil and the control for it.)
[15:34:18] <pink_vampire> what do I need to edit in the post?
[15:34:58] <pink_vampire> what the code should look like?
[15:35:20] <JavaBean> 0100010001 ?
[15:40:11] <gregcnc> I'm not sure how to work a post like that. Haas has an option like this for mills, maybe somebody did changes like that for F360 which will work in HSM
[15:41:31] <gregcnc> https://www.haascnc.com
[15:51:57] <gregcnc> I guess the oil code is probably manual NC in CAM. the hard part is creating the routine in the machine control
[16:09:26] <Tom_L> i've made a handfull of custom post sectons i can just call as a user funciton in my cad file
[16:09:51] <Tom_L> simplifies all that
[16:12:03] <skunkworks> yah - this old tony is using mach.
[16:25:03] <jdh> I forgive him.
[16:38:11] <skunkworks> Well - I wish him luck. But I am sure he will get a+ support..
[16:39:13] <syyl> mach4 Oo
[16:39:19] <syyl> wasnt that dead on arival?
[16:39:44] <skunkworks> some people think it is awesome.. Others don't
[16:40:48] <skunkworks> this was recent.. But he went back to mach3.. guh
[16:40:49] <skunkworks> https://www.youtube.com
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[16:43:52] <Tom_L> is mach3 the new mach4?
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[16:54:26] <_unreal_> sweet my rails just showed up
[17:09:39] <_unreal_> ARG... the only hard part is going to be getting my lead screw behind the mount plate for the new z setup
[17:09:43] <_unreal_> drawing in cad now
[17:11:50] <Tom_L> i'm sure you will figure it out
[17:12:22] <XXCoder> in 20 years i'm pretty sure mach4 will be hacked to work
[17:12:31] <XXCoder> so mach3 people will finally upgrade
[17:12:54] <Tom_L> some must spend money to feel they got something useful
[17:21:57] <_unreal_> hehe
[17:22:04] <_unreal_> I use to have a FULL version of mach3 years ago
[17:22:09] <_unreal_> no idea what I ever did with it
[17:22:30] <_unreal_> mmm stella artois
[17:24:08] <_unreal_> ya getting it draw now looking at some different options
[17:24:48] <_unreal_> I hate to build out the Z again but looks like I'm going to end up building it out a little bit unless I mount the stepper off to a side
[17:25:06] <_unreal_> not really sure I want to do that. not that it will cause any kind of an issue but just the same it will be an issue non the less
[17:25:22] <robotustra> got mill, got table, now I have to put the mill on the table :/
[17:25:25] <CaptHindsight> on a properly configured and properly G-coded LCNC machine has anyone ever experienced an axis just stop during a program?
[17:26:56] <XXCoder> not on lcnc. thats weird
[17:27:50] <Tom_L> CaptHindsight, no
[17:28:26] <Tom_L> i _did_ have some heat related issues but that was my own fault and i understand what it was
[17:29:14] <XXCoder> only possiblity I can think of, if machine is bit older, is wires getting behind bend limits and has internal break
[17:29:45] <Tom_L> CaptHindsight, no error messages?
[17:38:34] <_unreal_> what is the design/ steppers servos/ open/closed loop?
[17:39:20] <CaptHindsight> Tom_L: was a survey question based on the video of mach4
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[17:40:11] <Tom_L> ahh
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[19:25:23] <_unreal_> jesus My lead acid battery finished charging only took 7 hours
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[20:29:29] <robotustra> finally https://imgur.com
[20:30:56] <XXCoder> yay
[20:34:00] <robotustra> got the mill at 8:00 am, just finished
[20:40:49] <_unreal_> almost done designing my new Z system. so I can start milling my new parts
[20:41:02] <_unreal_> all aluminum mount/carriage for my Z
[20:41:38] <_unreal_> robotustra, that better be in the kitchen ;)
[20:42:48] <_unreal_> and what is with the wierd flower or nipple with tassles thing on the wall from the looks of it the red things?
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[20:43:12] <_unreal_> robotustra, now you just need to CNC it
[20:43:37] <robotustra> no, now I need to finish mu cnc lathe :)
[20:44:11] <robotustra> this stickers left in this room since long time ago
[20:44:18] <robotustra> on the wall
[20:46:10] <robotustra> I got this mill to finish lathe :)
[20:48:17] <_unreal_> hum
[20:48:36] <jdh> looks like a g0704/pm25/etc?
[20:48:51] <_unreal_> ya.. sign I prob have 2 hours of cad work left to finish this DESIGN :(
[20:48:55] <_unreal_> tomorrow I'll be milling parts
[20:49:14] <_unreal_> prob take me most of the day but it will be nice to have my cnc machine rebuilt
[20:49:24] <robotustra> KC-20VS-2
[20:49:33] <robotustra> but it's the same as 0704
[20:50:32] <jdh> except expensive af
[20:50:35] <_unreal_> I have a new spindle brushless 300watt I KNOW I KNOW not all that powerful but its 100watts greater then my current spindle and a hell of a lot faster
[20:51:06] <_unreal_> and it has a SOLID shaft. my current spindle has a press fit collet end
[20:51:25] <_unreal_> and I'm not saying it doesnt do a good job just not rigid
[20:52:01] <robotustra> _unreal_, what mill do you have?
[20:52:20] <_unreal_> 100% hand bilt
[20:52:22] <_unreal_> built
[20:52:33] <robotustra> picture?
[20:53:02] <_unreal_> https://drive.google.com
[20:53:23] <_unreal_> https://drive.google.com
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[20:53:34] <jdh> wow, g0704 is expensive af now also
[20:54:01] <_unreal_> https://drive.google.com
[20:54:10] <Rab> Tariffs still in effect, I guess?
[20:54:34] <_unreal_> robotustra, ?
[20:54:55] <_unreal_> rab I'm designing my new Z assembly right now to upgrade my home cnc
[20:55:08] <robotustra> how do you control it?
[20:55:16] <robotustra> linuxcnc?
[20:55:16] <_unreal_> with a computer
[20:55:27] <robotustra> I mean software?
[20:55:29] <_unreal_> well this machine uses a planetcnc controller
[20:55:49] <robotustra> using parallel port?
[20:55:53] <_unreal_> usb
[20:56:33] <robotustra> jdh, yep, it's expensive but buid qhality is decent
[20:56:33] <XXCoder> control what from what? not clear :) you mean how do linuxcnc control a machine, or how you control linuxcnc?
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[20:57:15] <_unreal_> XXCoder, he's asking me how do I control my machine I believe
[20:57:18] <XXCoder> if its lcnc control machine, there is some options. parallel port is one of em, using either MESA or BOB with stepper controllers
[20:57:24] <robotustra> _unreal_, what do you usually build?
[20:57:51] <_unreal_> ? ahhh care to expand on that quetion a little?
[20:57:58] <_unreal_> hehe not sure how to respond
[20:58:47] <robotustra> you machine is built of what material? is it plastic?
[20:58:56] <_unreal_> G10
[20:59:24] <_unreal_> ITS A FIBERGLASS and VERY strong
[20:59:31] <robotustra> ah, I see
[20:59:57] <robotustra> is it stronger than aluminum?
[21:00:13] <_unreal_> I believe its in par
[21:00:21] <_unreal_> and weight is about the same as well
[21:00:24] <_unreal_> maybe heavyer
[21:00:30] <robotustra> but wha about the price?
[21:01:06] <_unreal_> oh I have tons of it. I've been working in boat yards for years and its a common product
[21:01:27] <_unreal_> same with starboard got lots of it
[21:03:46] <robotustra> and how did you process it?
[21:04:10] <robotustra> I mean how did your mill? cut by hands?
[21:04:29] <CaptHindsight> what is the ratio of glass to epoxy or polyester?
[21:05:32] <robotustra> G-10 is a high-pressure fiberglass laminate, a type of composite material.[1] It is created by stacking multiple layers of glass cloth, soaked in epoxy resin, and by compressing the resulting material under heat until the epoxy cures.
[21:05:52] <robotustra> I think it has minimal amount of epoxy
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[21:07:30] <_unreal_> different ways
[21:08:11] <_unreal_> key thing thing to remember is that when it comes to FRP's like g10 ANYTHING frp. ANY TOOL that will cut tile will cut fiberglass
[21:08:17] <_unreal_> and cut it like butter
[21:09:01] <_unreal_> now FIBERGLASS DUST you hae to watch out for there is no way around that BS
[21:09:25] <robotustra> I mean how did you make your mill :) Because I for instance did my first mill with a hack saw, files and drill press :)
[21:09:37] <robotustra> literally
[21:09:52] <robotustra> and some taps
[21:10:27] <_unreal_> oh
[21:10:41] <_unreal_> ahh most of the parts were cut using a router with a 1/4" rotory rasp
[21:10:57] <_unreal_> only tool that did a great job of cutting it and straight that I had
[21:12:55] <robotustra> so you used another cnc machine to built yours?
[21:13:43] <CaptHindsight> oh G10, missed that
[21:14:26] <_unreal_> no by hand
[21:14:31] <XXCoder> heh annoying when you need a machine to make first machine
[21:14:42] <XXCoder> im still figuring how to make 3d printer without any printed parts
[21:14:44] <_unreal_> my current working machine is 100% hand built
[21:15:05] <_unreal_> my new machine I've been working on for some time now is hand and cnc bilt
[21:15:08] <_unreal_> built so far
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[21:15:34] <_unreal_> XXCoder, ? I could design one for ya
[21:15:49] <_unreal_> draw it up in cad not $ hard
[21:16:11] <_unreal_> are you looking to build one from scratch?
[21:16:42] <_unreal_> honistly if so I would strongly suggest JUST BUY ONE cheaper and likely better quality then what your going to produce in the first production round
[21:17:11] <robotustra> true, it'll save you tons of time
[21:18:18] <robotustra> nowadays almost nobody build any tool from scratch, it's not a science experiment in building tools from scratch :)
[21:19:16] <XXCoder> yeah
[21:19:24] <XXCoder> there is interesting books on how to
[21:19:39] <XXCoder> apparently once you build a lathe you can make any other precision objects with it
[21:19:52] <XXCoder> some "third tier" of course, needing something else made from lathe first
[21:20:05] <robotustra> _unreal_, this is mine first https://i.imgur.com
[21:20:18] <XXCoder> thats cool
[21:21:20] <robotustra> XXCoder, yes, with lathe you can build any other tool. but to build good lathe you need a surface plate and right angle
[21:21:39] <XXCoder> yeah
[21:22:03] <XXCoder> i remember reading on how to make porecision 90 angle with sheet of paper
[21:22:08] <XXCoder> via folding
[21:22:29] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com
[21:22:34] <robotustra> make surface plate from scratch it's very time consuming process
[21:22:58] <XXCoder> yeah
[21:23:13] <XXCoder> you ever seen that amazing video?
[21:24:14] <XXCoder> thinking on how to discribe it
[21:24:31] <XXCoder> basically guy uses pennies on circle steel then makes 3 of em
[21:24:46] <XXCoder> then use them to start making flat round sanders
[21:24:57] <XXCoder> 3 of em, just hard metal with grid cut on em
[21:25:26] <robotustra> you mean the 3 plate technique?
[21:25:29] <robotustra> I know it
[21:25:38] <XXCoder> yeah theres nice video lemme try find it
[21:26:09] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com
[21:26:10] <robotustra> but I just got chippo chineese surface plate for about 100 $
[21:26:14] <XXCoder> found it. 3 parter videos
[21:27:09] <XXCoder> 2 is where he begins to really work on it
[21:27:22] <robotustra> I saw it of cause when I was scraping metal for my lathe
[21:28:18] <robotustra> there is an equivalent video in russian, where guy is telling not only how to make surface plate but also a precision angle
[21:28:31] <XXCoder> robertz videos is amazing also
[21:28:46] <XXCoder> he recently made amazing video on making jig for measuring surface curve!
[21:29:02] <robotustra> callimator
[21:29:05] <XXCoder> I cant match his toe on skills!
[21:29:07] <robotustra> I saw it
[21:29:13] <XXCoder> let alone his whole body lol
[21:30:56] <robotustra> if you can do your own brazed carbide tungsten tools - you can do whatever you want
[21:31:19] <XXCoder> pretty much. im pretty lousy machinist myself lol
[21:31:25] <XXCoder> barely above operator at times
[21:31:40] <robotustra> I also not a machinist at all
[21:31:55] <robotustra> but I'm already milling for 5 years on my router
[21:32:08] <XXCoder> youre far above operator then
[21:32:20] <robotustra> recentlty I even started to write my own code
[21:32:30] <XXCoder> above me in lots aspects too since you can your own designs and cam
[21:32:42] <robotustra> just becasue I didn't like g-code produced by Artcam
[21:32:58] <XXCoder> is artcam worth it? wondered. also is it windows only?
[21:33:04] <robotustra> I wrote it by hands :)
[21:33:07] <XXCoder> its so annoying hard to find much not on windows
[21:33:34] <robotustra> yep, my win xp is in virtualbox in linux :)
[21:34:14] <robotustra> I started with artcam because it was easy start to mill something
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[21:35:21] <robotustra> after a year or two of milling something I already started to understand feeds and speeds better, and started to notice that artcam generate not optimal trajectories
[21:35:54] <XXCoder> man feeds and such is hard
[21:36:26] <robotustra> not so hard, but you should play with them as soon as you get new tool
[21:36:46] <XXCoder> yeah though at work most times I cant run own projects
[21:37:55] <robotustra> I didn't work on industrial machines yet
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[21:39:45] <robotustra> and my machine has not very strong motors, it means that it rather lose steps than brake the mill it the feed is too high
[21:40:38] <XXCoder> thats better than replacing screws and some frame parts yeah
[21:40:56] <robotustra> true
[21:42:21] <robotustra> but still my first mill is not rigid enough to mill iron
[21:43:01] <XXCoder> its bit hard to get to that point yeah
[21:43:07] <robotustra> it means that I can't make steel machine, that's why I got mill with can mill iron
[21:43:24] <robotustra> in theory - not really
[21:43:31] <XXCoder> since techinically your first mill can do it, but it will eat tools pretty fast since its making powder rather than chips
[21:43:49] <robotustra> do you know that KERN machines made of aluminum?
[21:44:53] <XXCoder> this? https://www.multistation.com
[21:45:00] <robotustra> and they can do repeatale 1 micron precition repeatably on 5 axii machines
[21:45:38] <robotustra> yeah for instance
[21:45:53] <XXCoder> they made from alum? interesting.
[21:46:00] <XXCoder> I guess its cheaper than "real" mills
[21:46:03] <robotustra> they do cooling of everything, to keep thermal stability
[21:46:35] <robotustra> https://www.youtube.com
[21:46:42] <robotustra> I was also surprized
[21:46:48] <robotustra> this is a tour
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[21:50:18] <robotustra> 15 min 40 sec
[21:50:53] <robotustra> water cooled pendant
[21:51:48] <robotustra> the temperature of intake coolant and exhause coolant - difference is not higher 0.1 degree
[21:54:23] <robotustra> so it means that it's real to make rigid precise machine in aluminum, but it should be pretty biffy
[21:55:23] <robotustra> or beaffy
[21:55:56] <robotustra> I mean it should have big chuncks of aluminum
[22:03:51] <XXCoder> yeah
[22:05:37] <robotustra> not pendant, but how it's called
[22:05:47] <robotustra> gimble?
[22:08:38] <robotustra> I would like to make my router rigid, but I can't find good solution for how to make it more rigid - becaus the portal type design is not
[22:09:03] <XXCoder> pictures of it again?
[22:09:08] <robotustra> other rigid designs are bigger with the same engvelope
[22:09:13] <robotustra> my mill?
[22:09:31] <XXCoder> yeah
[22:09:43] <XXCoder> ah no router I mean, the designs of it
[22:10:19] <robotustra> I did my first machine like 8 years ago
[22:10:26] <robotustra> no plans of cause
[22:10:39] <robotustra> 1 sec
[22:10:49] <XXCoder> sure
[22:11:27] <robotustra> this is the beginning http://robotustra.ca
[22:11:31] <robotustra> 7 years ago
[22:11:51] <XXCoder> pretty thick slabs thats good for strength
[22:11:56] <robotustra> the first spindle I throwed away
[22:12:00] <robotustra> yes 3/4"
[22:12:07] <robotustra> 19 mm
[22:12:21] <XXCoder> well there is some cheaty way to add stiffness to them
[22:12:27] <XXCoder> basicaly, add a fin
[22:12:50] <robotustra> I think it lack of rigidity in the bearings
[22:13:00] <XXCoder> it "adds" like 2 inches to thickness so it have much stronger resistance to flex
[22:13:16] <XXCoder> yeah sbr isnt best on that
[22:14:30] <robotustra> when I do milling across the portal it goes down like 0.1 mm
[22:14:42] <robotustra> in the middle
[22:15:46] <robotustra> if to make a rigid portal - and move table along the axis - the mill will be 2 times linger
[22:15:50] <robotustra> longer
[22:16:07] <XXCoder> the base would need something to make it more stiff also
[22:16:09] <robotustra> and will not fit into the box :)
[22:16:13] <XXCoder> sbr helps so dunno
[22:17:00] <XXCoder> gantry is quite tall, good for larger parts but also bad due to amount of leverage
[22:18:02] <XXCoder> anyway your machine is nice :) better than I can do
[22:18:35] <robotustra> thanks, I was not 100% sure in the success
[22:19:06] <robotustra> but for small aluminum parts I can keep within 20 microns
[22:19:33] <XXCoder> one of ways to have stiffness to prevent gantry from leveragng is wider base, but you lose some length
[22:19:34] <robotustra> 0.02 mm for parts less than 60 mm
[22:19:47] <robotustra> yes
[22:19:49] <XXCoder> thats quite decent
[22:19:57] <XXCoder> enough to make precision made cnc machine
[22:20:05] <robotustra> 5 inches
[22:20:40] <robotustra> may be to move spindle back
[22:20:48] <robotustra> to be inside bearings
[22:21:03] <ziper> the harbor freight lathe comes with a live center but no drill chuck. not sure exactly what they expect us to use that live center on
[22:21:31] <robotustra> a barrel?
[22:21:41] <ziper> good idea
[22:21:45] <ziper> ordering gun barrels
[22:22:59] <robotustra> well I also have order a set of R8 collets
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[22:36:48] <robotustra> I don't know what is the better option, one R8 holder for a set of ER32 collets or just a set of R8 collets
[22:37:22] <robotustra> not price wise but practically
[22:37:29] <robotustra> what is better
[22:38:09] <XXCoder> probably look into runout and such
[22:57:42] <robotustra> in case of R8-ER32 it's possible to compensate runout, or make it worser
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[22:58:25] <robotustra> but in case of R8 only - the lotal runout will be of collet only
[22:59:21] <XXCoder> any differences on what range of tools those can use?
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[23:01:36] <robotustra> I think up to 20 mm in diameter
[23:01:46] <robotustra> for R8
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[23:02:17] <robotustra> but for this mill it's not recommended to use bigger than 3/4" mill
[23:02:29] <robotustra> endmill
[23:02:51] <robotustra> so, 20mm is a limit I think
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[23:03:56] <XXCoder> can use special tools thats larger in diameter but you gonna watch how much sideload it does
[23:04:02] <XXCoder> like mini facemill
[23:04:14] <XXCoder> that is perfect for skimming surface to make clean top
[23:05:59] <robotustra> face mill is recommended up to 2"
[23:06:34] <robotustra> don't forget - it has plastic gears inside and 1 hp motor only
[23:08:10] <XXCoder> yeah
[23:08:20] <XXCoder> if its wood no problems however
[23:08:26] <robotustra> one of the downside of the R8-ER32 system I see that it reduces the vertical size
[23:08:36] <robotustra> may be by 1.5"
[23:08:52] <roycroft> and it won't be as rigid as just using r8 collets
[23:09:09] <robotustra> yes
[23:09:19] <roycroft> on a small mill like that it's a big deal
[23:09:32] <robotustra> it means that for steel milling I actually should use R8 collets
[23:09:51] <XXCoder> and unfortunately low amount of depth of cutting
[23:09:59] <XXCoder> boring but you can make better machine with it
[23:10:23] <robotustra> ah, I need a boring head too
[23:11:00] <robotustra> ok then I have to go with R8 set only
[23:11:40] <XXCoder> seems better choice
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[23:45:47] <infornography> Brought to you by Carl's Jr.
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