#linuxcnc | Logs for 2020-07-19

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[03:55:43] <veegee> Hmmm the fork widening/squeeze mechanism on my Allis Chalmers forklift randomly stopped working
[03:55:58] <veegee> I don't have enough experience with hydraulic systems to be able to tell what's wrong just from the behaviour
[03:56:50] <veegee> But when I actuate the lever, I can see the hydraulic hose jerk but the forks don't actually move
[03:57:11] <veegee> The rest of the system works though. I can raise/lower, tilt, rotate just fine
[03:57:41] <Loetmichel> veegee: sounds like the other end of the cylinder isnt opening the valve
[03:58:18] <Loetmichel> i would guess that either the valve block failed or the "other" end of said cylinder is somehow plugged
[03:58:37] <veegee> Yeah that could be it. This machine was always going to be a restoration project
[03:58:41] <veegee> Doesn't sound like a difficult fix
[03:58:42] <Loetmichel> or can you see BOTH end hoses jerk?
[03:59:10] <veegee> Good question, I didn't specifically look for that. I'll check tomorrow
[03:59:44] <veegee> I was just playing around with it to get the engine warm before changing the oil. The mechanism was working fine and then the next minute just stopped working
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[04:02:08] <Loetmichel> s/cylinder/hydraulic ram, sorry, german showed thru
[04:02:09] <Loetmichel> :-)
[04:02:49] <veegee> Very well could be a jammed valve mechanism, that does sound about right
[04:03:10] <veegee> For how old this thing is, I'm amazed it works at all
[04:03:30] <veegee> And perfectly too, aside from this incident today
[04:04:08] <veegee> Got this one for $2,000 including like a pallet with 1,000kg of spare parts
[04:04:58] <veegee> There's definitely replacement hydraulic components. Just have to dig through the pile to find the right part
[04:06:11] <veegee> Loetmichel what would be your guess if both of the hoses jerk?
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[04:09:45] * Loetmichel is a bit wary of hydraulics. Have seen a worker getting cut in half by a fan of oil after a pressure relief valve failed and caused a main pressure line on a tractor to rupture.
[04:10:22] <Loetmichel> veegee: then my guess would be a mechanically blocked ram
[04:11:58] <Loetmichel> or, if present: a valve block at the ram that prevents movement if both sides are without pressure (usually on stabilizers, to prevent sagging if a hose fails)
[04:12:08] <veegee> Are you serious? Like his whole body sliced in half?
[04:12:14] <Loetmichel> yes
[04:12:31] <veegee> All the way through?
[04:13:20] <Loetmichel> 500++ bar hydraulic oil and a ruptured steel pipe is like a water jet. the only thing that held that poor guy together was his spine
[04:13:32] <Loetmichel> the rest was cut cleanly thru
[04:13:34] <veegee> Did he make it?
[04:13:38] <Loetmichel> nope
[04:13:53] <veegee> god damn, never even thought of that
[04:14:10] <veegee> You saw this with your own eyes in real time?
[04:14:14] <Loetmichel> yes
[04:14:22] <veegee> that's horrific
[04:14:24] <XXCoder> that sucks :(
[04:14:32] <Loetmichel> at age 15 to top it off
[04:15:05] <Loetmichel> was a school internship at a company that made tractor implements for farmers
[04:15:48] <veegee> I've been preoccupied setting up my pneumatic system and studying its safety. I have multiple pressure relief valves, multiple filters, etc.
[04:15:57] <Loetmichel> they tried to make a tractor with TWO sicle bars AND a hay loader on the back.
[04:16:18] <veegee> Ok I have to check the relief valves on this thing then before I mess around with it further
[04:16:23] <Loetmichel> so they had a second hydraulic pump on the PTO and somehow that overpressure valve failed
[04:16:49] <Loetmichel> the moment one floored the engine the hydraulic line bursted.
[04:17:34] <Loetmichel> and the worker just was at the wrong place at the wrong time
[04:18:22] <Loetmichel> thats a picture you have problems to forget to be honest.
[04:18:46] <XXCoder> yeah it has huge ponental of ptsd
[04:19:18] <veegee> I would think they'd have redundant pressure relief valves
[04:20:48] <veegee> Also 500 bar is not that high, hydraulic hoses have a burst pressure of like 2,000 bar
[04:21:19] <veegee> But I guess not back then
[04:21:19] <Loetmichel> IIRC the hydraulic system was designed for 400
[04:21:27] <Loetmichel> may have been more
[04:21:31] <Loetmichel> than 500
[04:21:45] <Loetmichel> i am 51 now, it was a LONG time ago
[04:23:15] <Loetmichel> i dont know if overpressure valve is the correct term
[04:24:02] <Loetmichel> those hydraulic pumps have a valve integrated that lets oil flow from the output back to the input when the pressure gets to high, thats how the pressure is regulated
[04:24:21] <Loetmichel> and said valve was apparently mounted incorrectly
[04:24:30] <veegee> Oh yeah /that/ valve
[04:25:21] <Loetmichel> so the moment the engine revved up it overwhelmed the other valve of the (smaller) original pump and exploded a line
[04:25:22] <veegee> That's not a safety component, that's a core working component of a hydraulic system
[04:25:27] <Loetmichel> yes
[04:26:55] <Loetmichel> as i said: they tried to get more volume by putting a second bigger pump parallel to the original one.
[04:27:20] <XXCoder> im sorta puzzled on why they didnt simply remove smaller one
[04:27:25] <Loetmichel> and power it via PTO
[04:27:26] <XXCoder> simpler system is better
[04:28:05] <Loetmichel> XXCoder: it was a "versuchswerkstatt", brandnew tractor, they probably didnt want to modify it that much
[04:28:13] <XXCoder> ah i see
[04:28:34] <Loetmichel> (whats the english term for that?)
[04:28:53] <XXCoder> brand new tractor?
[04:29:02] <Loetmichel> "versuchswerkstatt"
[04:29:10] <XXCoder> whats it mean, literally?
[04:29:27] <Loetmichel> "mechanics shop for developing new implements" in that case
[04:29:56] <Loetmichel> the shop where they tested new ideas
[04:30:02] <XXCoder> ahh yea hmm
[04:30:11] <XXCoder> protoyyping shop maybe
[04:30:19] <Loetmichel> yeah, thats about it
[04:31:02] <XXCoder> prototyping
[04:31:02] <Loetmichel> i meant to say: sometimes in those shops they dont use all the safety measures aviable.
[04:32:08] <Loetmichel> point of me mentioning it was that hydraulics can be REALLY dangerous if you dont know exactly what you do.
[04:32:18] <XXCoder> indeed
[04:34:13] <Loetmichel> i have heard (not seen) of people that "just" got a small spray of high pressure hydraulic oil on the hand and had a small black blister... and died a couple days later of blood poisoning
[04:34:38] <XXCoder> yeah thats how needless injection works
[04:34:45] <Loetmichel> so even if its not as gory it still can be deadly
[04:34:49] <XXCoder> why didnt they go to toxicity center?
[04:35:24] <Loetmichel> because they didnt notice it was an injection, they thought they got pinched somehow.
[04:35:29] <XXCoder> i suppose they didnt think it wasnyt injection
[04:35:31] <XXCoder> yeah
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[04:39:43] <Loetmichel> anyways, enough horror stories, just be careful when handling hydraulics, veegee, will you?
[04:40:01] <veegee> Yeah I'll be sure to do so
[04:40:15] <XXCoder> just read some more bad news. fetuses can get covid from mothers
[04:41:19] <Loetmichel> hmm, shouldnt that be a non issue? they dont use their respiratory systems just yet.
[04:41:33] <XXCoder> you do realize it affects all organs
[04:41:40] <Loetmichel> i didnt.
[04:41:40] <XXCoder> lungs primarily but not sole
[04:42:03] <XXCoder> it ranges from virtially no more than annoying cough to dead by lungs failure
[04:42:18] <XXCoder> there is people who lungs is affected but more organs is affected too
[04:42:41] <XXCoder> and it dont always require stuff like having debites, health issues etc
[04:43:51] <XXCoder> there is some evidence with small percentage that has covid triggered debites
[04:44:01] <XXCoder> as well as small percentage with brain issues by covid
[04:44:15] <XXCoder> percentages may be small, but would you roll a dice? I wouldnt
[04:53:16] <Loetmichel> me neither. but to be honest: i am old and never had that much a problem with illnessses. even the first "sars" got me only lightly. i am not really frightened for myself. if i contract covid19 somehow: no big deal (Probably).
[04:53:43] <Loetmichel> that doesent mean i want to infect others with it, not all are so lucky health wise.
[04:53:48] <XXCoder> indeed
[04:53:56] <XXCoder> cloth masks dont protect self but others
[04:56:33] <XXCoder> i wear mine at work everyday. its not great but well
[05:03:17] <veegee> I wear only P100 with organic vapour cartridges
[05:03:27] <veegee> I don't wear those bullshit cloth/surgical masks
[05:03:46] <XXCoder> fancy.
[05:04:01] <XXCoder> those can help protect others by blocking speaking droplets and such
[05:04:09] <XXCoder> it dont really block on intake
[05:23:23] <Loetmichel> veegee: sounds a bit "over the top"... i get some strange looks when i wear the 3dprinted mask already ;)
[05:23:49] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org
[05:23:52] <Loetmichel> that one ;)
[05:24:29] <XXCoder> you should get https://www.noupoi.net
[05:24:33] <XXCoder> oops paste fail
[05:24:42] <XXCoder> https://twitter.com
[05:25:33] <Loetmichel> nope, no filters. doesent work ;)
[05:25:52] <XXCoder> yeah its closer to cloth that it stops droplets but dont really protect self
[05:26:29] <Loetmichel> no, i meant: cloth stops droplets by soaking them up
[05:26:42] <Loetmichel> this mask is made of filament, so no soaking
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[05:29:26] <XXCoder> yeah would be dripping off bottom of mask. fun!
[05:29:49] <XXCoder> unless he covers rear with some sor of cloth to wick water away and dry
[06:01:48] <JT-Cave> morning
[06:02:10] <XXCoder> yo
[06:11:28] <JT-Cave> my granddaughter has covid-19
[06:11:47] <XXCoder> :( she ok?
[06:12:33] <JT-Cave> I guess she is, my daughter is a RN
[06:12:45] <XXCoder> risk risk definitely
[06:12:48] <XXCoder> *high
[06:13:05] <JT-Cave> yea they live north of Houston
[06:21:27] <XXCoder> hope they recover
[06:21:37] <XXCoder> in likely they will
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[07:18:17] <Tom_L> morning
[07:24:22] <SpeedEvil> Not tobe a downer, but https://blogs.bmj.com
[07:24:33] <SpeedEvil> Doctor 95 days in, still suffering 'unrelated' symptoms.
[07:25:05] <SpeedEvil> I post, as exercising too hard when you're 'better' from a viral illness is what has destroyed my life following very similar set of symptoms.
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