#pyqt | Logs for 2018-09-28
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[09:54:51] <librebob[m]> why deosnt Qt do proper desktop notifications
[10:08:16] <altendky> librebob[m]: ? http://doc.qt.io
[10:12:48] <librebob[m]> those arent real desktop notifications
[10:12:50] <librebob[m]> just tray popup
[10:12:51] <librebob[m]> s
[10:12:53] <librebob[m]> and they are gross and ugly
[10:28:40] <altendky> librebob[m]: what is a 'real desktop notification'?
[10:29:18] <altendky> honest question, i haven't dug into this really before
[10:30:59] <librebob[m]> https://i.imgur.com
[10:31:00] <librebob[m]> something like top right
[10:31:52] <altendky> librebob[m]: is the gnome?
[10:32:15] <altendky> or gtk something
[10:32:27] <librebob[m]> i dont use Gnome personally
[10:32:33] <librebob[m]> but it was a GTK application that launched the notification
[10:32:40] <librebob[m]> thought any software can do it by talking to the notification server
[10:32:46] <altendky> librebob[m]: what desktop environment?
[10:32:47] <librebob[m]> it's DE agnostic
[10:32:58] <altendky> librebob[m]: but the look should be DE specific, yes?
[10:33:10] <librebob[m]> No desktop environment, I just use an openbox setup
[10:33:22] <librebob[m]> it'll just use whatever your Gtk theme is i'd assume
[10:33:38] <altendky> librebob[m]: so why would you expect a qt thing to look like a gtk thing? and qt doesn't have a gtk theme anymore
[10:34:09] <librebob[m]> because plenty of non Gtk apps can make these
[10:34:14] <librebob[m]> this was a Gtk app that made it so i assume it's using Gtk themes
[10:35:02] <librebob[m]> How does KDE theme their notifications?
[10:35:06] <altendky> librebob[m]: http://openbox.org looks like openbox is a thing you run inside another desktop neivornment
[10:35:10] <librebob[m]> that's QT afaik
[10:35:18] <altendky> librebob[m]: so, what DE are you running?
[10:35:30] <librebob[m]> i am not running a DE
[10:35:54] <librebob[m]> openbox is a window manager you can launch with X11
[10:36:13] <altendky> librebob[m]: alright, maybe go talk to #qt
[10:36:18] <librebob[m]> i have a bunch of a collection of services and tools I use from different systems
[10:36:19] <altendky> i don't know notifications
[10:36:30] <librebob[m]> but no unified DE
[10:37:59] <librebob[m]> it seems I'm using canonicals notification software
[10:38:03] <altendky> librebob[m]: a quick search isn't showing anything for on-topic for 'notifications' in openbox https://www.google.com
[10:38:07] <librebob[m]> so my notifications are likely similar to those in ubuntu
[10:38:22] <altendky> alrighty
[10:38:41] <librebob[m]> i dont know why you're so interested in openbox it's besides the point
[10:38:48] <librebob[m]> Qt should provide functionality to talk to the notification server, on GNU/Linux systems at least
[10:39:04] <altendky> librebob[m]: link the standard definition of that interface
[10:39:06] <librebob[m]> but I know macos and android etc provide notifications
[10:39:09] <librebob[m]> so I'm not sure why Qt doesnt have this support
[10:39:13] <librebob[m]> Qt seems very legacy windows with the tray popups
[10:39:26] <altendky> librebob[m]: can you show a qt notification? can you share an sscce?
[10:40:17] <altendky> librebob[m]: i focused on openbox because that's all you were saying you were running. so, i was trying to find info about how it handled notifications. which, apparently it doesn't and yes you are using gtk stuff for your notifications seemingly
[10:40:20] <librebob[m]> https://developer.gnome.org
[10:40:31] <altendky> librebob[m]: that's not a standard. that's gnome
[10:40:38] * librebob[m] uploaded an image: image.png (16KB) < https://matrix.org >
[10:40:57] <librebob[m]> it's defacto standard
[10:41:04] <altendky> librebob[m]: for gnome?
[10:41:32] <altendky> because gnome is a common default DE?
[10:42:03] <librebob[m]> it's common across GNU/Linux
[10:42:06] <librebob[m]> im not sure if my image upload got to you
[10:42:10] <altendky> librebob[m]: kde uses it?
[10:42:26] <altendky> librebob[m]: i saw the image, thank you. code coming?
[10:42:49] <librebob[m]> https://community.kde.org
[10:43:03] <librebob[m]> they use the GNOME standard
[10:43:17] <librebob[m]> i think it only recently became a GNOME standard again probably because they are modifying it
[10:43:24] <librebob[m]> the older standard is under freedesktop i believe
[10:43:27] <librebob[m]> either way KDE implements it
[10:43:51] <librebob[m]> all Qt has to do is provide a way to talk to a notification server over DBUS
[10:44:19] <altendky> librebob[m]: ok, so go implement it. i'm not clear what you are looking for. do you have some example code i could try?
[10:44:59] <librebob[m]> the code doesnt exist apparently
[10:45:04] <librebob[m]> because Qt doesn't support it
[10:45:27] <altendky> librebob[m]: your code showing the issue, of course. i asked for it in the same message where i suggested you go implement the feature in qt so...
[10:45:53] <librebob[m]> there is no 'issue' per se
[10:45:56] <librebob[m]> but a lack of functionality
[10:46:07] <librebob[m]> https://gitlab.com
[10:46:09] <altendky> librebob[m]: there clearly is an issue. you use their notification feature and it looks ugly
[10:46:16] <librebob[m]> all of my code is available here if you are interested
[10:46:33] <altendky> librebob[m]: how about an sscce?
[10:46:43] <librebob[m]> sscce?
[10:46:47] <altendky> sscce.org
[10:46:54] <altendky> minimal example i can run and see what it does on my system
[10:47:14] <librebob[m]> of what
[10:47:19] <librebob[m]> imagine SystemTrayIcon
[10:47:25] <librebob[m]> now imagine i call showMessage() on it
[10:47:29] <librebob[m]> that's the code example
[10:47:33] <altendky> librebob[m]: so you know what i'm running exactly and exactly what it will do?
[10:47:35] <librebob[m]> it produces an ugly popup
[10:47:53] <librebob[m]> it doesn't matter what you're running because it's ugly here
[10:48:05] <altendky> librebob[m]: it seems you mostly want to complain. i'm looking for bug reports (including feature requests). trying to recreate the situation. etc.
[10:48:27] <altendky> librebob[m]: ok. exactly what you did is bad on exactly your system. go fix it.
[10:48:36] <librebob[m]> consider this a feature request
[10:48:40] <altendky> librebob[m]: or... actually work with peole when they are trying to understand
[10:48:43] <altendky> librebob[m]: for who?
[10:48:57] <altendky> librebob[m]: this isn't even #qt (which isn't a place to request features either)
[10:48:58] <librebob[m]> idk Qt project
[10:49:01] <librebob[m]> if you work for them
[10:49:05] <altendky> librebob[m]: ...
[10:49:21] <altendky> librebob[m]: you don't seem to understand the software or this channel
[10:49:35] <altendky> librebob[m]: and you are more focused on complaining than you are on trying to get my help
[10:49:49] <librebob[m]> im just perplexed why Qt lacks something that seems so common place on a modern GNU/Linux environment
[10:50:03] <altendky> librebob[m]: that's no reason to waste everyone's time.
[10:50:13] <altendky> librebob[m]: if you instead want to explore the situation... then work with me on that
[10:50:14] <librebob[m]> there is no way you can help is the problem
[10:50:22] <altendky> librebob[m]: then why did you bother asking anything?
[10:50:29] <altendky> librebob[m]: you had no actual question
[10:51:08] <librebob[m]> if i distracted you from work i apologize
[10:51:12] <altendky> librebob[m]: and you've just wasted apparently an 45 minutes of my time trying to understand, recreate, and explore any existing discussion
[10:51:20] <librebob[m]> but i was under the impression this was a channel for general discussion relevant to pyqt
[10:51:45] <altendky> librebob[m]: sure. but you didn't want to discuss. otherwise you would have provided me sample code to see what it does in kde or been looking at bug reports.
[10:52:08] <altendky> librebob[m]: but certainly this isn't going to be a place to request features. this channel has no affiliation with pyqt which has no affiliation with qt
[10:52:18] <altendky> so... feature requests here for qt stuff just aren't going to become anything
[10:52:34] <librebob[m]> i'll have to send them a feature request
[10:52:46] <altendky> and when code is requested, provide it instead of english instructions to imagine things
[10:53:00] <librebob[m]> the code doesnt exist
[10:53:03] <altendky> the point is i am trying to do something for you, maybe you ought to help me do it
[10:53:20] <altendky> librebob[m]: you had code doing a thing and it didn't look how you wanted. that code exists. an sscce of it should be really quick for you to make.
[10:53:58] <librebob[m]> i had already deleted that code
[10:54:19] <altendky> librebob[m]: but, if you knew the code you wanted didn't exist and you knew that there was no reason for it not to. then you ought have just gone and implemented it yourself. if you know those things for sure, there's literally nothing to talk about.
[10:54:51] <librebob[m]> so you have never spoken for the sake of speaking?
[10:55:12] <altendky> librebob[m]: when i do and people ask for sample code i provide it instead of telling them to imagine stuff
[10:55:51] <altendky> or maybe retract my question
[10:55:59] <librebob[m]> the imagination must be used or it will be lost
[10:56:18] <altendky> natural language instructions to imagine code are a horrible way to share code
[10:57:02] <librebob[m]> yet an important tool for open source projects
[10:57:09] <altendky> not really
[10:57:15] <librebob[m]> yes really
[10:57:16] <altendky> pastebin's etc are
[10:57:41] <librebob[m]> not if you need the code in a different license
[10:58:00] <altendky> 'imagine' doesn't bypass licenses i don't think
[10:58:31] <altendky> intellectual property infringement doesn't depend on having copy/pasted
[10:58:44] <librebob[m]> it does if the person who has to imagine hasnt viewed the original source
[10:58:46] <altendky> you can literally come up with the idea entirely independently and still infringe
[10:59:12] <altendky> it's horrible, but life at present
[10:59:26] <librebob[m]> i think that's an issue of patents not copyright
[10:59:45] <altendky> i bet if i wrote harry potter it would still be copyright infringement
[11:00:34] <altendky> consider following intent of licenses, not instructing people via imagination to 'bypass' legal hazards
[11:00:45] <librebob[m]> harry potter as a specific thing sure
[11:00:55] <altendky> show a little respect for people that give you their code (and i say this despite disliking the gpl)
[11:01:01] <librebob[m]> but if you explained me the general idea with new names and such it'd be perfectly fine
[11:01:07] <librebob[m]> harry potter ripped off the worst witch after all
[11:01:10] <librebob[m]> and just swapped genders and names
[11:01:20] <librebob[m]> harry potter does not own wizards or magic
[11:01:51] <librebob[m]> the GPL is the most important work of the 20th century
[11:02:05] <altendky> and it is evil
[11:02:22] <librebob[m]> oh do tell why
[11:02:25] <altendky> a means to an end, but i don't particularly like that idea
[11:02:50] <librebob[m]> what idea?
[11:03:00] <altendky> the idea of doing a bad thing to achieve a good thing
[11:03:14] <altendky> it's anti-freedom really. it's dedicated to restricting the use of the code. that's why it exists
[11:03:22] <librebob[m]> so you dont agree with laws in general i take it
[11:03:33] <altendky> there are lots of laws i think are bad
[11:03:33] <librebob[m]> or banning slavery
[11:03:42] <librebob[m]> or banning murder
[11:03:47] <librebob[m]> because hey, what about my freedom to kill people and own slaves
[11:04:04] <librebob[m]> that's why I said in general
[11:04:14] <altendky> librebob[m]: this is pointless. you can't have a sensible technical discussion nor a sensible moral discussion. good luck.
[11:04:40] <librebob[m]> well it was easy to destroy your world view
[11:04:48] <librebob[m]> only took me what? 5 lines?
[11:04:51] <altendky> ?
[11:05:00] <altendky> no clue what got destroyed
[11:05:23] <librebob[m]> your moral compass
[11:05:29] <altendky> in what way?
[11:05:50] <librebob[m]> no, I think you already know
[11:06:08] <altendky> ah, i'm supposed to imagine your thoughts. again, that's a horrible way to communicate specific things.
[11:06:50] <librebob[m]> if you spend too much time imaging my thoughts you might forget to have some of your own
[11:07:04] <altendky> lucky i haven't spent any time on that
[11:07:29] <altendky> dislike gpl -> pro murder... that's an interesting one though.
[11:07:31] <librebob[m]> no i think you spent about the last half hour on it ;)
[11:07:46] <librebob[m]> it's your logic not mine
[11:08:16] <altendky> librebob[m]: it's not, but sure, i'm the one with logic here. you have provided nothing but random statements
[11:08:32] <librebob[m]> he lashes out again!
[11:08:45] <librebob[m]> well im off to bed, have a good one.
[11:08:47] <altendky> librebob[m]: i'm the one lashing? you are accusing me of being pro murder
[11:08:54] <librebob[m]> you should tone down the aggression
[11:09:11] <altendky> librebob[m]: you should consider actually expressing your thoughts clearly
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